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View Full Version : Beat the Huskies, 2014!



LA Ute
01-08-2014, 10:22 AM
1001

No time to come up with a clever thread title, assuming I am even capable of that. Here's what the very enjoyable PAC-12 Hoops (http://pachoops.com/2014/01/week-2-pac-12-hoops-preview/) blog has to say:


Something to Prove: This thing’s early so ultimately everyone has something to prove, right? I suppose USC, WSU, and OSU have proven themselves as bottom of the barrel but it is indeed still early – even for them (hey! I’m glass half full guy). Pin pointing one team, however, I’m going to go with the suddenly upstart Utah Utes. They gave the Ducks all they could handle – including the game winning basket – and against Oregon State they took care of business (a characteristic of a good team). They made us all Krystkowiakers (http://pachoops.com/2014/01/utah-utah-utah-and-a-few-other-thoughts-from-opening-night/) (are we going to make that a thing?). But now they hit the road. And while the 2013-14 trip to Washington won’t soon frighten anyone, it’s certainly not about to make anyone comfortable. No road trip will. And when you’re Utah and haven’t played too much outside of the Huntsman Center, well then you’ve got a great opportunity to prove something to us.

Mormon Red Death
01-08-2014, 11:30 AM
If we want to finish in the top 3rd of the conference we need a win tonight. btw BIlas says were are the #64 best (http://insider.espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/10251804/arizona-wildcats-top-jay-bilas-ranking-68-best-teams-college-basketball) team in the nation


64. Utah Utes (http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/team/_/id/254/utah-utes) (Previous ranking: Not rated)
Utah is much improved behind the play of wings Jordan Loveridge (http://sports.espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/player/_/id/61737/jordan-loveridge) and Delon Wright (http://sports.espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/player/_/id/66236/delon-wright). The Utes were one key mistake away from an upset against Oregon and lead the nation in field goal percentage inside the arc.

SeattleUte
01-08-2014, 11:35 AM
I think BYU was a good primer for this game. Washington like BYU loves to get out and run, turn the game into kind of a messy pickup contest. Romar talks a lot about defense but his teams are generally fundamentally weak including on defense. His offenses are hard to watch unless you're against the Huskies. That being said, they could go out and beat us by 25 points because the Huskies are very athletic and have a lot of weapons including CJ Wilcox, who's a great kid and a really good shooter. (They led ASU in Tempe by up to 24.) We might also go out and lead wire to wire and win going away like last season. Or it could be a really close game like Vegas expects. It looks like their PG Nigel Williams-Goss may be a one and done (19th ranked HS recruit last season and having a great freshman year). The Huskies are like Brazil; they never live up to their ever enormous potential. But a win in the Alaska Airlines/Hec Ed arena would be a good one, as ever. I'll be there!

concerned
01-08-2014, 11:40 AM
I think BYU was a good primer for this game. Washington like BYU loves to get out and run, turn the game into kind of a messy pickup contest. Romar talks a lot about defense but his teams are generally fundamentally weak including on defense. His offenses are hard to watch unless you're against the Huskies. That being said, they could go out and beat us by 25 points because the Huskies are very athletic and have a lot of weapons including CJ Wilcox, who's a great kid and a really good shooter. (They led ASU in Tempe by up to 24.) We might also go out and lead wire to wire and win going away like last season. Or it could be a really close game like Vegas expects. It looks like their PG Nigel Williams-Goss may be a one and done (19th ranked HS recruit last season and having a great freshman year). The Huskies are like Brazil; they never live up to their ever enormous potential. But a win in the Alaska Airlines/Hec Ed arena would be a good one, as ever. I'll be there!


Yes but will Jeff Ament be there?

Mormon Red Death
01-08-2014, 11:45 AM
Utah +2.5 at Caesars and Moneyline is +135

U-Ute
01-08-2014, 02:08 PM
I believe this weekend will be a predictor for how we end up this season.

SoCalPat
01-08-2014, 05:15 PM
I believe this weekend will be a predictor for how we end up this season.

If you mean indicator, I agree.

If we sweep, at worst we're in the NIT with at least one home game. High end is winning 10-11 league games and getting a 8-10 seed in the dance.

If we split, I still think we're good enough to get into the NIT, but we'll probably have to add a win in Vegas to the 8-9 we'll get in league play.

If we get swept, it's hard to imagine getting above 7 wins. Short of a miracle run to the Pac-12 title game, we're probably in the CBI.

Mormon Red Death
01-08-2014, 09:20 PM
Geez 7 minutes to score first points

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Mormon Red Death
01-08-2014, 09:23 PM
We are ice cold

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Mormon Red Death
01-08-2014, 09:31 PM
ThIs is ridiculous

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DrumNFeather
01-08-2014, 09:35 PM
ThIs is ridiculous

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This might end in the 30s like a few of our games vs Air Force did.

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LA Ute
01-08-2014, 09:38 PM
Three times now we've blown the shot clock. Amazing. You'd think we've never seen a zone before.

LA Ute
01-08-2014, 09:40 PM
We haven't hit a trey yet, have we?

Mormon Red Death
01-08-2014, 09:41 PM
We haven't hit a trey yet, have we?

0-9. We haven't hit anything outside of 5 feet

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LA Ute
01-08-2014, 09:42 PM
Jordan hits his first bucket with less than 5:00 in the first half.

LA Ute
01-08-2014, 09:44 PM
Riley said on the pregame show that the team had an unusually long (2-hour) shoot-around this afternoon. I wonder if they have tired legs?

LA Ute
01-08-2014, 09:48 PM
Our boxing out sucks. We really are lucky not to be looking at a blowout. Not a single trey or assist yet (unless I missed one).

chrisrenrut
01-08-2014, 09:55 PM
As bad as we played, I feel fortunate that we are only down 5 at the half. Giving up the offensive rebounds is the most frustrating thing to me at this point.

Mormon Red Death
01-08-2014, 10:06 PM
Our boxing out sucks. We really are lucky not to be looking at a blowout. Not a single trey or assist yet (unless I missed one).

The only box out we know is when the donuts are gone

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UtahDan
01-08-2014, 10:08 PM
I'm in Utah and have Directv. What channel is this on locally?

Mormon Red Death
01-08-2014, 10:09 PM
I'm in Utah and have Directv. What channel is this on locally?

Not on direct tv... pac12 network

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UtahDan
01-08-2014, 10:12 PM
Not even in Utah. Lol guess I'll stream my dish to my phone.

Mormon Red Death
01-08-2014, 10:25 PM
If you're last name is andrews why the hell would you name your kid Andrew?

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LA Ute
01-08-2014, 10:30 PM
Our plan was to make UW beat us with someone other than Wilcox. Not working so far.

LA Ute
01-08-2014, 10:32 PM
I do like the way the boys are scrapping.

Mormon Red Death
01-08-2014, 10:35 PM
That was one of tThe Shawn Kemps kids right?

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OrangeUte
01-08-2014, 10:40 PM
Yep. Looks a lot like his dad.

We need a hot hand from three point range.

OrangeUte
01-08-2014, 10:43 PM
Loveridge is consistent.

OrangeUte
01-08-2014, 10:45 PM
We never go into the post. I would like to see us back people in and take the shot or kick it back out.

OrangeUte
01-08-2014, 10:46 PM
Andrews has a hot hand.

Their defense is smothering us.

OrangeUte
01-08-2014, 10:46 PM
This is an exciting game. Like a tennis match in spurts.

OrangeUte
01-08-2014, 10:47 PM
Ugh! Bachynski loses it down low.

LA Ute
01-08-2014, 10:48 PM
I wish we would not put the ball in Bach's hands at times like this.

LA Ute
01-08-2014, 10:49 PM
An off night from Jordan is hard for us to deal with.

LA Ute
01-08-2014, 10:51 PM
UW is so deadly with those pull-up jumpers and we are so cold, I don't see how we pull this one out now.

LA Ute
01-08-2014, 10:51 PM
Ballgame. We cannot stop their outside shooting.

OrangeUte
01-08-2014, 10:56 PM
Delon!

OrangeUte
01-08-2014, 10:57 PM
Argh! Not fast enough to chase down that loose ball.

Mormon Red Death
01-08-2014, 10:58 PM
Can we catch a break at the end of these games?

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OrangeUte
01-08-2014, 10:58 PM
The problem with not establishing a post game is that in clutch time our players are not in a rhythm down low. Our offense is perimeter based and that requires a hot hand. We need more consistent play down low.

OrangeUte
01-08-2014, 10:59 PM
Sweet throw away!

Mormon Red Death
01-08-2014, 11:01 PM
Can we catch a break at the end of these games?

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Well Look at that

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OrangeUte
01-08-2014, 11:02 PM
Tough game. We are contending in league this year.

LA Ute
01-08-2014, 11:03 PM
Um, maybe we need to work on end-of-game plays? Something other than using the last 9 seconds to dribble into the corner and throw up a shot from there?

Mormon Red Death
01-08-2014, 11:07 PM
What sucks is Colorado will blow out wash on Saturday

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Dwight Schr-Ute
01-08-2014, 11:14 PM
Wow. That was tough to watch.


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LA Ute
01-08-2014, 11:35 PM
I guess this one's simple to break down. We can afford for either Loveridge or Taylor to have off nights, but not both of them. Delon's a freak of nature but he can't win games alone.

sancho
01-08-2014, 11:44 PM
Um, maybe we need to work on end-of-game plays? Something other than using the last 9 seconds to dribble into the corner and throw up a shot from there?

With 9 seconds, you have to get the shot off in 5. Give yourself a shot at a putback.

SeattleUte
01-09-2014, 12:26 AM
This is one of those I just got back from the game posts. Here are a few thoughts from the fourth row.

First, I'm now on board with SoCalPat's criticism of the pre-season schedule. The inability to score a field goal for more than six minutes to start the game occurred -- in my humble opinion -- for two reasos. First, this was our second game outside of our home court. Everything just seemed strange, as it tends to on the road, so we couldn't even get close to hitting a three. Second, Washington played super aggressive on defense, and I wager this is the most thoroughly athletic team we've played. At the outset the team just seemed kind of stunned at how fast Washington was moving on defense. Twice letting the 35 second clock expire is terrible. They were like deer in headlights and couldn't even get close to hitting a three. (I'm chastened for criticizing Romar's defenses; this is what happens when you get athletes to play hard on defense. It's hard to score.) Had the Utes played a tougher pre-season schedule they would have been better prepared for this experience. That being said, the crowd was largely disengaged and the arena was only about half full.

Second, this has got to be Delon Wright's team. In fact, last season here in Seattle I witnessed Brandon Taylor become a different kind of player. I think I witnessed that tonight with Delon Wright. That last shot, I said to myself, just give the ball to Delon and see what he can do. And that's what t hey did. Wright played 40 minutes and had 27 points, 11-17 shooting and 11 rebounds, against a team with some very good college basketball players and a lot of horsepower. He's one of the best players in the Pac 12. Uncharacteristically, he had one assist, but to hell with those when he can go 11-17 and shoot eight free throws.

I remember when Majerus said that against his nature he was going to turn Andre Miller loose and let this be his team, let this team be his creation. Delon is a very special player, and it's time Kodiak did the same with him.

The team worked very hard. They're good kids, and very cool, like their coach.

Princeton Onwas. WTF? Why didn't he play against Oregon, etc.

UTEopia
01-09-2014, 06:31 AM
I like Wright and think he is a very good player. I think the Utes are better if he scores 18 and has 7 or 8 assists. I also thought his decisions on the last possession showed a little selfishness. When Taylor came over the top, Taylor's man stayed with Wright for just a fraction and if Wright had given the ball to Taylor he would have had a better shot than the shot Wright ended up taking.

This is a tough league and it isn't like we just lost to a dog of a team. UW may have underachieved in the pre conference season, but they are a good team, playing well and at home.

As for playing a tougher schedule, I agree I would have enjoyed seeing this team play a tougher schedule. At the same time, there is no guarantee that they would have won against Oregon or UW had they done so. It is possible that this team needed a patsy schedule to get some chemistry and some confidence and that they wouldn't be as good as they are today had they suffered some tough defeats early on.

Mormon Red Death
01-09-2014, 07:34 AM
1. The Utes now have 3 losses (2 on the road) by a combined 6 points where they had a chance to win everyone of them with the last possession. Everyone of those times they can't get a decent shot. They pretty much ran the same play they ran at the end of regulation vs Oregon. Hindsight is always 20/20 but why not have delon at the top of the key and drive if he can score great if they collapse then you kick to Taylor for the three with everyone else crashing the boards for a tip in?


2. 1-15 from the 3 point line is ultimately why they lost this game. Yes UW was playing on tight on the team well but at least half of the threes were without a hand in the face.


3. This team is great defensively. In the last minute when they needed stops they got them. Not only that but all game long they played great defense.


4. Seriously what kind person names their kid Andrew Andrews? "Hi I'm Chad Chads"


5. I like how one of Shawn Kemps kids was on the UW team. Would any of you be surprised if he went the george forman route and named all his kids Shawn Kemp? Granted its 15 kids but they are all will different mothers.


6. I liked when they went big. There was time where they played Delon, Onwas, Loveridge, Olsen and Lenz. They put Onwas on Wilcox and he shut him down.


7. I really like Onwas. He is big, athletic and his first name is Princeton. He must have been hurt because he didnt play last week but he was huge for the utes last night.


8. Saturday is a must win if they have any hope of going to the NCAA tournament.

LA Ute
01-09-2014, 08:12 AM
I agree with Seattle's observations. MRD's too. This is the second time (Oregon was the first) that the Utes have seemed surprised and taken aback by the level of athleticism they faced. I hope they are getting used to it quickly.

I'll have to watch the recording again, but it did seem to me that at critical times the players were standing around. For example, when Wright was trapped and had no one to pass the ball to. It's also mystifying to see them so clueless at the end of close games. They seem to lose their poise altogether. And in two out of the three close losses, Wright has been the one who has lost poise. Remember Boise State, when he allowed someone to steal the ball from him from behind? I will not criticize him but it is just weird.

SeattleUte
01-09-2014, 08:16 AM
I like Wright and think he is a very good player. I think the Utes are better if he scores 18 and has 7 or 8 assists. I also thought his decisions on the last possession showed a little selfishness. When Taylor came over the top, Taylor's man stayed with Wright for just a fraction and if Wright had given the ball to Taylor he would have had a better shot than the shot Wright ended up taking.

This is a tough league and it isn't like we just lost to a dog of a team. UW may have underachieved in the pre conference season, but they are a good team, playing well and at home.

As for playing a tougher schedule, I agree I would have enjoyed seeing this team play a tougher schedule. At the same time, there is no guarantee that they would have won against Oregon or UW had they done so. It is possible that this team needed a patsy schedule to get some chemistry and some confidence and that they wouldn't be as good as they are today had they suffered some tough defeats early on.

Wright was 11-17 and missed 3 maybe 2 layups that normally would be money for him -- early in the game. Again, I think he was just not used enough to the fast and intense level of play.

LA Ute
01-09-2014, 08:36 AM
Wright was 11-17 and missed 3 maybe 2 layups that normally would be money for him -- early in the game. Again, I think he was just not used enough to the fast and intense level of play.

When Wright plays like that, all we need from Jordan and Brandon is 50% production and we win. Maybe it was Washington's strategy to take one or both of those players away from us. We need more consistency out of Jordan if we are going to make any real noise this year.

concerned
01-09-2014, 08:38 AM
Wright was 11-17 and missed 3 maybe 2 layups that normally would be money for him -- early in the game. Again, I think he was just not used enough to the fast and intense level of play.

I agree. he is not used to this level of play, and is not sure what to do in certain situations--at the end of the game last night and at the end of regulation against Oregon. Once he gets comfortable and confident, he will start to take over games, even more than last night, esp. if Loveridge continues to struggle (he still seems slow to me agst athletic defenses). If he continues on his current trajectory, I really wonder if he will be here next year.

sancho
01-09-2014, 08:39 AM
I like Wright and think he is a very good player. I think the Utes are better if he scores 18 and has 7 or 8 assists.

Agree. Our big three is Wright, Taylor, and Loveridge, and we need two of those three to be contributing in order to beat good teams. I worry about how ineffective Loveridge has been lately. He doesn't quite have the ball control that he needs in order to do a lot of what he tries to do. He doesn't quite have the size to do what we often need him to do. I hope he breaks out of this - his whole game improves when he is scoring.

Oregon is at least as physical and athletic as UW is.

I hated those Wright turnovers against the trap. We didn't turn it over, but OSU's trap often slowed us down too. We have to figure this out.

Princeton had a nice few minutes in the 2nd half. We are still looking for the impact 6th man off the bench. We have been trying Onwas, Fields, and Ogbe out in that role. Each has had his moments, but none has seized the job convincingly. Onwas' free throws were pretty ugly.

These close losses early remind me of last season. If a team continues to lose close ones, eventually it will start losing ugly. It's a law of physics.

U-Ute
01-09-2014, 08:47 AM
If you mean indicator, I agree.

If we sweep, at worst we're in the NIT with at least one home game. High end is winning 10-11 league games and getting a 8-10 seed in the dance.

If we split, I still think we're good enough to get into the NIT, but we'll probably have to add a win in Vegas to the 8-9 we'll get in league play.

If we get swept, it's hard to imagine getting above 7 wins. Short of a miracle run to the Pac-12 title game, we're probably in the CBI.

I do it to piss off AJ McCarron's mom.

It sounds like we're on the same page here.

U-Ute
01-09-2014, 08:50 AM
7. I really like Onwas. He is big, athletic and his first name is Princeton. He must have been hurt because he didnt play last week but he was huge for the utes last night.

I have a theory that his parents firmly believed in the theory that a kid's destiny/personality is strongly influenced by their first name.

LA Ute
01-09-2014, 09:41 AM
Onwas is just the kind if big, strong athletic body we need in the PAC-12. IIRC there were hints Krysko used him sparingly for a couple of games because Onwas was not putting out in practice, or some related attitude problem. I hope Princeton gets past that. As we've seen he can be an impact player.

Two Utes
01-09-2014, 10:19 AM
I agree. he is not used to this level of play, and is not sure what to do in certain situations--at the end of the game last night and at the end of regulation against Oregon. Once he gets comfortable and confident, he will start to take over games, even more than last night, esp. if Loveridge continues to struggle (he still seems slow to me agst athletic defenses). If he continues on his current trajectory, I really wonder if he will be here next year.

I disagree about Loveridge. I think he is unsure what his spot is. We spent a large portion of the second half isolating Delon and letting him drive while 3 guys stood around including Loveridge. Delon is the guy and Loveridge is trying to figure out what role to play. We don't run plays for Loveridge and we don't post him up-especially when we isolate Delon. It's affecting Loveridge's game. Combine that with our piss poor 3 point shooting from these two (Delon is at 28% while Loveridge is at 30%) and the fact that the roll from the pick with Bachinski/Olson is ineffective and our offense has become stale.

Why not use the pick and roll with Love and Delon? Or better yet post up Loveridge or Delon if you think you can't successfully do it with Bachinski and/or Olson.

I beg to differ on your view of Loveridge right now. There isn't as much movement of the ball on the offensive side as last year and it is affecting his play. And we failed last night to play inside out. No post play at all.

But, the biggest problem is this is the second game on the road all year for this team. They aren't comfortable yet playing on the road. Once again, our shitty preseason schedule has become a problem for us in league play.

Although last night Delon was taking the ball to the basket, creating contact and getting to the free throw line. He will get better and better at this as the season progresses.

concerned
01-09-2014, 10:26 AM
I disagree about Loveridge. I think he is unsure what his spot is. We spent a large portion of the second half isolating Delon and letting him drive while 3 guys stood around including Loveridge. Delon is the guy and Loveridge is trying to figure out what role to play. We don't run plays for Loveridge and we don't post him up-especially when we isolate Delon. It's affecting Loveridge's game. Combine that with our piss poor 3 point shooting from these two (Delon is at 28% while Loveridge is at 30%) and the fact that the roll from the pick with Bachinski/Olson is ineffective and our offense has become stale.

Why not use the pick and roll with Love and Delon? Or better yet post up Loveridge or Delon if you think you can't successfully do it with Bachinski and/or Olson.

I beg to differ on your view of Loveridge right now. There isn't as much movement of the ball on the offensive side as last year and it is affecting his play. And we failed last night to play inside out. No post play at all.

But, the biggest problem is this is the second game on the road all year for this team. They aren't comfortable yet playing on the road. Once again, our shitty preseason schedule has become a problem for us in league play.

Although last night Delon was taking the ball to the basket, creating contact and getting to the free throw line. He will get better and better at this as the season progresses.

Agree with everything you say about J Loveridge. Still, it just seems to me that against both Oregon and UW, he is still a bit of a tweener, and has trouble in traffic because of his quickness and ball handling skills, which are not optimal for a 3 against that competition.

LA Ute
01-09-2014, 10:29 AM
I disagree about Loveridge. I think he is unsure what his spot is. We spent a large portion of the second half isolating Delon and letting him drive while 3 guys stood around including Loveridge. Delon is the guy and Loveridge is trying to figure out what role to play. We don't run plays for Loveridge and we don't post him up-especially when we isolate Delon. It's affecting Loveridge's game. Combine that with our piss poor 3 point shooting from these two (Delon is at 28% while Loveridge is at 30%) and the fact that the roll from the pick with Bachinski/Olson is ineffective and our offense has become stale.

Why not use the pick and roll with Love and Delon? Or better yet post up Loveridge or Delon if you think you can't successfully do it with Bachinski and/or Olson.

I beg to differ on your view of Loveridge right now. There isn't as much movement of the ball on the offensive side as last year and it is affecting his play. And we failed last night to play inside out. No post play at all.

But, the biggest problem is this is the second game on the road all year for this team. They aren't comfortable yet playing on the road. Once again, our shitty preseason schedule has become a problem for us in league play.

Although last night Delon was taking the ball to the basket, creating contact and getting to the free throw line. He will get better and better at this as the season progresses.

I agree that Delon seems to be figuring out how to get to the hoop and draw contact. He will be deadly if he can keep getting better at that. As for Loveridge, you make a good point. Kodiak will surely see that in the game films. It'll be interesting to see what the response is.

Two Utes
01-09-2014, 10:32 AM
Agree with everything you say about J Loveridge. Still, it just seems to me that against both Oregon and UW, he is still a bit of a tweener, and has trouble in traffic because of his quickness and ball handling skills, which are not optimal for a 3 against that competition.

Maybe, but I think that is overplayed. I believe we start the game with three guards and two forwards as does most other teams these days. He's just a forward. He rebounds well, passes well, shoots 83% from the free throw line (incredible), is an underrated defender and provides great leadership and toughness. His three point shooting is not great but not awful (he shoots it better than Delon) and we don't post him up (which I assume is because the coaches don't have enough confidence in his post play). The last three games he's looked kind of lost--especially as we've gotten more and more addicted to Delon's isolation drive plays.

These are just my uneducated opinions--but I think this tweener argument is overblown.

concerned
01-09-2014, 10:38 AM
Maybe, but I think that is overplayed. I believe we start the game with three guards and two forwards as does most other teams these days. He's just a forward. He rebounds well, passes well, shoots 83% from the free throw line (incredible), is an underrated defender and provides great leadership and toughness. His three point shooting is not great but not awful (he shoots it better than Delon) and we don't post him up (which I assume is because the coaches don't have enough confidence in his post play). The last three games he's looked kind of lost--especially as we've gotten more and more addicted to Delon's isolation drive plays.

These are just my uneducated opinions--but I think this tweener argument is overblown.

Your opinions are less uneducated than mine.

LA Ute
01-09-2014, 10:43 AM
Tony Jones thinks the problem is just that other teams are keying on Jordan, and he's not used to it.

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/utes/57371221-89/loveridge-points-utah-utes.html.csp

chrisrenrut
01-09-2014, 10:44 AM
If he continues on his current trajectory, I really wonder if he will be here next year.

I'm no NBA expert, but I can't see him being drafted with no demonstrable shooting skills. If he could develop a dependable mid-range jumper, he would almost be unstoppable. But as it is now, it is almost painful to watch the slow-motion process when he decides to shoot a jump shot.

SoCalPat
01-09-2014, 10:44 AM
I haven't done this since we played UTEP in football in the 1995 season, and that was for lack of today's technology combined with a weekend getaway to Sun Valley: I went to bed without knowing how the Utes fared. Got my days mixed up and thought the game was Wednesday. Ugh.

SoCalPat
01-09-2014, 10:46 AM
Maybe, but I think that is overplayed. I believe we start the game with three guards and two forwards as does most other teams these days. He's just a forward. He rebounds well, passes well, shoots 83% from the free throw line (incredible), is an underrated defender and provides great leadership and toughness. His three point shooting is not great but not awful (he shoots it better than Delon) and we don't post him up (which I assume is because the coaches don't have enough confidence in his post play). The last three games he's looked kind of lost--especially as we've gotten more and more addicted to Delon's isolation drive plays.

These are just my uneducated opinions--but I think this tweener argument is overblown.

Jordan shot 40 percent last year from 2, a horrible number for your starting 4 and only a few decimals higher than what he shot from 3. His best offense is facing the basket, moving outside-in. He is not anywhere in the league of a Andre Roberson or the Persian kid from Oregon last year when it comes to inside play. The more time Jordan spends inside, the more his game suffers and the more his productivity drops. I can see why the coaches have little faith on his inside game.

Two Utes
01-09-2014, 10:48 AM
Jordan shot 40 percent last year from 2, a horrible number for your starting 4 and only a few decimals higher than what he shot from 3. His best offense is facing the basket, moving outside-in. He is not anywhere in the league of a Andre Roberson or the Persian kid from Oregon last year when it comes to inside play. The more time Jordan spends inside, the more his game suffers and the more his productivity drops. I can see why the coaches have little faith on his inside game.

Ok.

Two Utes
01-09-2014, 10:50 AM
Tony Jones thinks the problem is just that other teams are keying on Jordan, and he's not used to it.

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/utes/57371221-89/loveridge-points-utah-utes.html.csp

8 shots aren't enough.

sancho
01-09-2014, 10:50 AM
Jordan shot 40 percent last year from 2, a horrible number for your starting 4 and only a few decimals higher than what he shot from 3. His best offense is facing the basket, moving outside-in. He is not anywhere in the league of a Andre Roberson or the Persian kid from Oregon last year when it comes to inside play. The more time Jordan spends inside, the more his game suffers and the more his productivity drops. I can see why the coaches have little faith on his inside game.

I agree, which is why I like Two Utes pick and roll (or pick and pop) suggestion. When he scores, his defense and rebounding also improve. We need to find a big, reliable role for him.

Two Utes
01-09-2014, 10:51 AM
I haven't done this since we played UTEP in football in the 1995 season, and that was for lack of today's technology combined with a weekend getaway to Sun Valley: I went to bed without knowing how the Utes fared. Got my days mixed up and thought the game was Wednesday. Ugh.

It was Wednesday.

SoCalPat
01-09-2014, 10:55 AM
It was Wednesday.

See? I'm still getting my days mixed up and don't realize today is Thursday, which is when I thought the game was being played.

concerned
01-09-2014, 10:57 AM
I'm no NBA expert, but I can't see him being drafted with no demonstrable shooting skills. If he could develop a dependable mid-range jumper, he would almost be unstoppable. But as it is now, it is almost painful to watch the slow-motion process when he decides to shoot a jump shot.

the reason I think he is draftable w/o a jumper is his size and length. He has an NBA body and can defend NBA guards and rebound, as his recent blocks show. Maybe he isn't a starter right away, but there could be a good place for him. Alec Burks didnt really really have a jump shot either (but better than Delon); most of his points in college were at the rim. A team can invest the time for him to develop a jumper.

Mormon Red Death
01-09-2014, 10:57 AM
I haven't done this since we played UTEP in football in the 1995 season, and that was for lack of today's technology combined with a weekend getaway to Sun Valley: I went to bed without knowing how the Utes fared. Got my days mixed up and thought the game was Wednesday. Ugh.

It was Wednesday... What day do you think it is today?

LA Ute
01-09-2014, 11:01 AM
8 shots aren't enough.

Right. It looked to me like UW was intent on denying Jordan the ball. They'd scouted us and know what can happen when he gets hot. (BYU, for example.)

SoCalPat
01-09-2014, 11:03 AM
Onwas is just the kind if big, strong athletic body we need in the PAC-12. IIRC there were hints Krysko used him sparingly for a couple of games because Onwas was not putting out in practice, or some related attitude problem. I hope Princeton gets past that. As we've seen he can be an impact player.

Larry's past the point where he can afford to teach lessons in lieu of winning games.

Larry seemed put off by the NBA mindset, where the players run the ship the majority of the time. OK, I get that. What Larry needs to realize (provided attitude or practice is Onwas' issue, a talking point that is nothing but speculation and rumor; he could have been legitimately hobbled) is that players are always running the ship to varying degrees, from high school to the pros. And his first job is to win games. I'm not keen on the idea that we may have lost the Oregon game because Larry was trying to teach a lesson. Onwas is good enough where just even 3 minutes from him might have made a difference in a one-possession game that went into OT.

concerned
01-09-2014, 11:09 AM
Tony Jones thinks the problem is just that other teams are keying on Jordan, and he's not used to it.

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/utes/57371221-89/loveridge-points-utah-utes.html.csp

they keyed on him a lot more last year when he didnt have Delon to take the pressure off.

SeattleUte
01-09-2014, 11:12 AM
the reason I think he is draftable w/o a jumper is his size and length. He has an NBA body and can defend NBA guards and rebound, as his recent blocks show. Maybe he isn't a starter right away, but there could be a good place for him. Alec Burks didnt really really have a jump shot either (but better than Delon); most of his points in college were at the rim. A team can invest the time for him to develop a jumper.

It's not like he doesn't have a jumper. I see a kind of supreme confidence even a hubris that he can get to the hoop every time if he's open and he'll take the layup anytime. He gave the Utes a chance to win by nailing that last 3. Also, 28% isn't really that terrible from 3 if you conser that it's worth 3 points. It's like 45% from 2. I agree. I'm worried he's one and done.

sancho
01-09-2014, 11:16 AM
Larry's past the point where he can afford to teach lessons in lieu of winning games.

Larry seemed put off by the NBA mindset, where the players run the ship the majority of the time. OK, I get that. What Larry needs to realize (provided attitude or practice is Onwas' issue, a talking point that is nothing but speculation and rumor; he could have been legitimately hobbled) is that players are always running the ship to varying degrees, from high school to the pros. And his first job is to win games. I'm not keen on the idea that we may have lost the Oregon game because Larry was trying to teach a lesson. Onwas is good enough where just even 3 minutes from him might have made a difference in a one-possession game that went into OT.

I think you are overrating Onwas here. He had a nice few minutes yesterday, but he's also had a lot of very pedestrian minutes this season. Larry is still trying to find out which of the Onwas, Ogbe, Fields trio can become a meaningful contributor off the bench. Onwas might be that guy -- he brings the athleticism that might translate into defense and rebounding. But he doesn't bring any polish offensively, and he doesn't bring any shooting. Maybe it's time for Larry to just pick one of those three and go with him.

SeattleUte
01-09-2014, 11:17 AM
Larry's past the point where he can afford to teach lessons in lieu of winning games.

Larry seemed put off by the NBA mindset, where the players run the ship the majority of the time. OK, I get that. What Larry needs to realize (provided attitude or practice is Onwas' issue, a talking point that is nothing but speculation and rumor; he could have been legitimately hobbled) is that players are always running the ship to varying degrees, from high school to the pros. And his first job is to win games. I'm not keen on the idea that we may have lost the Oregon game because Larry was trying to teach a lesson. Onwas is good enough where just even 3 minutes from him might have made a difference in a one-possession game that went into OT.

Pat, what about this. Utes down by 5 with 57 second left, Washington has the ball, and the Huskies are shooting 8-13 from the line. And we let them run 35 seconds off the clock. We wound up having to foul anyway, they missed, and Delon's heroics nearly saved the game. It reminded me of you saying Larry needs to improve his in-game chess game (by the way, I love Larry). I wish we'd have had 30 more seconds to try to win it.

UBlender
01-09-2014, 11:22 AM
the reason I think he is draftable w/o a jumper is his size and length. He has an NBA body and can defend NBA guards and rebound, as his recent blocks show. Maybe he isn't a starter right away, but there could be a good place for him. Alec Burks didnt really really have a jump shot either (but better than Delon); most of his points in college were at the rim. A team can invest the time for him to develop a jumper.

I tweeted this already, but this morning I was looking at the NBA draft profiles on espn and Dante Exum, the Australian 6'6" PG who is projected to go in the top five or so had a profile that read almost exactly how I would have described Delon's game. Big, long guard who can play 1 or 2, gets to the rim with ease, great passer, jumpshot is his big weakness right now but that can be developed, etc.

I have never seen Exum play so I haven't the slightest idea how he would compare to Wright, but that profile, combined with his monster game last night and more and more people starting take notice, make me worried that he could bail after a year. This is supposed to be a year of ascension where whatever we accomplish this year is just a prelude to better things next year, but if Wright leaves us I'm afraid we either take a step back next year or are no better than this year.

sancho
01-09-2014, 11:24 AM
Pat, what about this. Utes down by 5 with 57 second left, Washington has the ball, and the Huskies are shooting 8-13 from the line. And we let them run 35 seconds off the clock. We wound up having to foul anyway, they missed, and Delon's heroics nearly saved the game. It reminded me of you saying Larry needs to improve his in-game chess game (by the way, I love Larry). I wish we'd have had 30 more seconds to try to win it.

I liked the call, but there's not a right answer here. UW is the best FT shooting team in the conference. The likely outcomes were:

1) Down 7 with 55 seconds left.

or

2) Down 5 with 30 seconds left.

Neither is a great situation to be in, but I prefer option 2. If you get the 3, you can make them shoot FTs with some pressure.

LA Ute
01-09-2014, 11:24 AM
Larry's past the point where he can afford to teach lessons in lieu of winning games.

Larry seemed put off by the NBA mindset, where the players run the ship the majority of the time. OK, I get that. What Larry needs to realize (provided attitude or practice is Onwas' issue, a talking point that is nothing but speculation and rumor; he could have been legitimately hobbled) is that players are always running the ship to varying degrees, from high school to the pros. And his first job is to win games. I'm not keen on the idea that we may have lost the Oregon game because Larry was trying to teach a lesson. Onwas is good enough where just even 3 minutes from him might have made a difference in a one-possession game that went into OT.

Sorry, but I disagree. I know it's a tough call. Short-term we could win a couple of games. Long-term the program could suffer big-time. I believe the great coaches think long-term. (Wooden, for example (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/inside_game/magazine/life_of_reilly/news/2000/03/14/life_of_reilly/).)


You played for him, you played by his rules: Never score without acknowledging a teammate. One word of profanity, and you're done for the day. Treat your opponent with respect.
He believed in hopelessly out-of-date stuff that never did anything but win championships. No dribbling behind the back or through the legs. "There's no need," he'd say. No UCLA basketball number was retired under his watch. "What about the fellows who wore that number before? Didn't they contribute to the team?" he'd say. No long hair, no facial hair. "They take too long to dry, and you could catch cold leaving the gym," he'd say.

That one drove his players bonkers. One day, All-America center Bill Walton showed up with a full beard. "It's my right," he insisted. Wooden asked if he believed that strongly. Walton said he did. "That's good, Bill," Coach said. "I admire people who have strong beliefs and stick by them, I really do. We're going to miss you." Walton shaved it right then and there. Now Walton calls once a week to tell Coach he loves him.

I like Larry's approach. Reasonable people disagree on such things, of course.

SoCalPat
01-09-2014, 11:24 AM
Pat, what about this. Utes down by 5 with 57 second left, Washington has the ball, and the Huskies are shooting 8-13 from the line. And we let them run 35 seconds off the clock. We wound up having to foul anyway, they missed, and Delon's heroics nearly saved the game. It reminded me of you saying Larry needs to improve his in-game chess game (by the way, I love Larry). I wish we'd have had 30 more seconds to try to win it.

As you've described it (and even though I didn't see the game, from reading the PBP at utahutes.com, what you've said seems pretty accurate), I would say that works OK being down 4 points, not so sure about 5. In the NBA, it's totally acceptable line of action, what with the shorter shot clock. I think anytime you're down multiple possessions with under a minute to go, it's never a bad idea to foul. If you've scouted UW properly and know who to foul and he's in the game, then it's a no-brainer.

sancho
01-09-2014, 11:27 AM
If you've scouted UW properly and know who to foul and he's in the game, then it's a no-brainer.

This almost never works. Teams are almost always able to get the ball in to their good FT shooters.

SoCalPat
01-09-2014, 11:27 AM
Sorry, but I disagree. I know it's a tough call. Short-term we could win a couple of games. Long-term the program could suffer big-time. I believe the great coaches think long-term. (Wooden, for example (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/inside_game/magazine/life_of_reilly/news/2000/03/14/life_of_reilly/).)



I like Larry's approach. Reasonable people disagree on such things, of course.

Totally different generations. At least Wooden's rules had specificity to them. And I guarantee you if Wooden coached in the era of hardship and declaring early for the draft, he would have adjusted as well.

SoCalPat
01-09-2014, 11:28 AM
This almost never works. Teams are almost always able to get the ball in to their good FT shooters.

Inbounding, yes. But we're talking 30 seconds of possession here, with a 5-second count. Your odds of having a bad FT shooter touch the ball go up significantly, provided he's in the game.

sancho
01-09-2014, 11:31 AM
Inbounding, yes. But we're talking 30 seconds of possession here, with a 5-second count. Your odds of having a bad FT shooter touch the ball go up significantly, provided he's in the game.

I'm not sure he was in the game. UW is #10 nationally in FT % at 76%. I doubt we could have forced them to go to Shawn Kemp. And that approach may have taken 20 seconds. You have to decide - foul quickly or play for the stop. There are tradeoffs either way. I feel like if you foul immediately, you need more things to go your way. But if they miss that 1-1, you could give yourself an extra 30 seconds. Our approach obviously worked last night.

Two Utes
01-09-2014, 11:50 AM
Sorry, but I disagree. I know it's a tough call. Short-term we could win a couple of games. Long-term the program could suffer big-time. I believe the great coaches think long-term. (Wooden, for example (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/inside_game/magazine/life_of_reilly/news/2000/03/14/life_of_reilly/).)



I like Larry's approach. Reasonable people disagree on such things, of course.


Wooden had really good players. That's the main reason he won.

LA Ute
01-09-2014, 01:03 PM
Wooden had really good players. That's the main reason he won.

I think that if he had let the inmates run the asylum, he would not have been as successful. Majerus didn't allow that. Boylen did. Big difference.

311ute
01-09-2014, 01:04 PM
I agree, which is why I like Two Utes pick and roll (or pick and pop) suggestion. When he scores, his defense and rebounding also improve. We need to find a big, reliable role for him.


Pick and roll with Delon and Loveridge wouldn't work, because the defenders would simply switch it (6-5 and 6-6). I do agree that there needs to be more action on the weakside when we run our pick-n-rolls, to keep the help side defense occupied and to free up players like Loveridge and Taylor as Delon attacks.

While I don't think Loveridge is a great post player, he needs to do more than float around the perimeter. Loveridge is at his best when he is cutting away from the ball, or catching and attacking immediately. At times I feel he gets a bit lazy or content at just standing and waiting to receive the ball on the 3-point line. This argument could be made for the team as a whole, IMO. I agree with the statement that our offense has gotten stale in recent games, and I think this is due to lack of movement away from the ball. Delon is fantastic making plays off the dribble, but we can't have guys just standing around watching him.

Onwas needs to get more time. I like Dakari, but if he's not hitting on his 3s (you'll be able to tell by his first 3 whether he's going to have an "on" or "off" night) he doesn't impact the game much. We don't have anyone on the roster who's as strong and athletic when attacking the rim as Onwas. Plus, he's a great defender due to his size and athleticism (Wilcox did nothing once we put Onwas on him).

I'm not sure PVD is deserving of the minutes he gets every game. He tries hard defensively, but he's a liability on that end due to his lack of athleticism. He needs to understand that his strength is... shooting the ball! He's so damn tentative and passive out there. He needs to catch ready to shoot. And as TwoUtes said previously, his real strength is his mid-range/pull-up game, yet I don't think he's shot one pull-up jumper all year long. If he's not going to shoot the ball and look to score, we might as well have some better defenders and more lenth/athleticism out there.

311ute
01-09-2014, 01:17 PM
I tweeted this already, but this morning I was looking at the NBA draft profiles on espn and Dante Exum, the Australian 6'6" PG who is projected to go in the top five or so had a profile that read almost exactly how I would have described Delon's game. Big, long guard who can play 1 or 2, gets to the rim with ease, great passer, jumpshot is his big weakness right now but that can be developed, etc.

I have never seen Exum play so I haven't the slightest idea how he would compare to Wright, but that profile, combined with his monster game last night and more and more people starting take notice, make me worried that he could bail after a year. This is supposed to be a year of ascension where whatever we accomplish this year is just a prelude to better things next year, but if Wright leaves us I'm afraid we either take a step back next year or are no better than this year.


I think Delon leaving after this year is a real possibility. And it scares me to death. While right now I would consider it "unlikely", I still think it's a possibility, especially if he continues to dominate Pac-12 games like he did last night.

That being said, I think he would benefit greatly by coming back next year. Dedicate the off-season to the weight room and to working on his jump shot. I think he could work his way into the mid first round if he came back next year and improved his shot.

I'm of the firm belief that if he comes back next year we could make a Sweet 16 run.

SoCalPat
01-09-2014, 01:17 PM
I think that if he had let the inmates run the asylum, he would not have been as successful. Majerus didn't allow that. Boylen did. Big difference.

Letting slide a player cursing or allowing him to have longer hair is hardly letting the inmates run the asylum.

You can go overboard on playing warden. That's my point.

LA Ute
01-09-2014, 01:24 PM
Letting slide a player cursing or allowing him to have longer hair is hardly letting the inmates run the asylum.

You can go overboard on playing warden. That's my point.

Yep, there's a balance that needs to be kept. But if (and I don't really know) Onwas wasn't putting out or was misbehaving in practice, LK can't give him a pass on that and let him play.

SoCalPat
01-09-2014, 01:28 PM
Onwas needs to get more time. I like Dakari, but if he's not hitting on his 3s (you'll be able to tell by his first 3 whether he's going to have an "on" or "off" night) he doesn't impact the game much. We don't have anyone on the roster who's as strong and athletic when attacking the rim as Onwas. Plus, he's a great defender due to his size and athleticism (Wilcox did nothing once we put Onwas on him.

In full agreement. Tucker has 10 points in our three losses. He's a starter who should get his fair share of open looks because of the attention Wright and Jordan draw. That kind of non-production not only gets you moved to the bench, you get asked to leave the program in the offseason. He absolutely has to help us more in tight games.

sancho
01-09-2014, 01:32 PM
Pick and roll with Delon and Loveridge wouldn't work, because the defenders would simply switch it (6-5 and 6-6). I do agree that there needs to be more action on the weakside when we run our pick-n-rolls, to keep the help side defense occupied and to free up players like Loveridge and Taylor as Delon attacks.


But their defenders are a different size, right? If not, Taylor/Loveridge.

sancho
01-09-2014, 01:36 PM
In full agreement. Tucker has 10 points in our three losses. He's a starter who should get his fair share of open looks because of the attention Wright and Jordan draw. That kind of non-production not only gets you moved to the bench, you get asked to leave the program in the offseason. He absolutely has to help us more in tight games.

Tucker hit big 3s vs OSU. That was a tight conference game. He is what he is - a shooter. Shooters are streaky. Can he be more than just a shooter? Seems like he has some length and athleticism.

And if Onwas is getting Tucker's time, we have even less outside shooting.

Two Utes
01-09-2014, 02:10 PM
In full agreement. Tucker has 10 points in our three losses. He's a starter who should get his fair share of open looks because of the attention Wright and Jordan draw. That kind of non-production not only gets you moved to the bench, you get asked to leave the program in the offseason. He absolutely has to help us more in tight games.


Way too harsh. Tucker has shot 35% from three and payed quite well. He's exceeded expectations, been a model teammate by all accounts and still has an upside. Plus he plays for room and board.

I hope your boss doesn't evaluate as tough as you evaluate these 20 year olds.

SoCalPat
01-09-2014, 02:54 PM
Way too harsh. Tucker has shot 35% from three and payed quite well. He's exceeded expectations, been a model teammate by all accounts and still has an upside. Plus he plays for room and board.

I hope your boss doesn't evaluate as tough as you evaluate these 20 year olds.

We need him to be average in big games, not above-average vs. cream puffs. His season highs in points were against St. Kat's and Evergreen State.

As for evaluation, you criticized me (even said I had ulterior motives vs. Larry) for hyping up Delon (We'll not belabor the point on how dead balls-on right my assessment was). Now for saying Tucker has to be better against better opposition, lest he be recruited over and/or transfer, I'm being too harsh? My boss does evalate me tough. He's also very fair, honest and consistent, the latter of which you've proven to be incapable of when determining what's "appropriate" coming from me.

Two Utes
01-09-2014, 03:22 PM
We need him to be average in big games, not above-average vs. cream puffs. His season highs in points were against St. Kat's and Evergreen State.

As for evaluation, you criticized me (even said I had ulterior motives vs. Larry) for hyping up Delon (We'll not belabor the point on how dead balls-on right my assessment was). Now for saying Tucker has to be better against better opposition, lest he be recruited over and/or transfer, I'm being too harsh? My boss does evalate me tough. He's also very fair, honest and consistent, the latter of which you've proven to be incapable of when determining what's "appropriate" coming from me.

Sorry, Pat but I'm certain he doesn't evaluate you OR treat you like you treat folks here and players on the team.

But congratulations, on being right about Delon. You're still an asshole.

sancho
01-09-2014, 03:28 PM
We need him to be average in big games, not above-average vs. cream puffs. His season highs in points were against St. Kat's and Evergreen State.


He had 13 in 27 mins vs OSU. 3-7 on threes. He'll have some big moments for us this year, but I suspect the streakiness will always be there.

Jarid in Cedar
01-09-2014, 04:01 PM
Washington did a good job of closing and defending the corner 3. I would guess that 60% of our made 3's are from the corners. We don't have a guy who can consistently drain a 3 from the angle. Taylor is probably the most likely to make one from that part of the court. I just think that the Huskies made a concerted effort to take that away from us and it threw off our entire offensive flow in the first half.

UBlender
01-09-2014, 04:20 PM
I think Delon leaving after this year is a real possibility. And it scares me to death. While right now I would consider it "unlikely", I still think it's a possibility, especially if he continues to dominate Pac-12 games like he did last night.

That being said, I think he would benefit greatly by coming back next year. Dedicate the off-season to the weight room and to working on his jump shot. I think he could work his way into the mid first round if he came back next year and improved his shot.

I'm of the firm belief that if he comes back next year we could make a Sweet 16 run.

I agree with you. I would still rate Delon as more likely than not to be back next year, but I thought the same about Jake Murphy too (though it was admittedly for very different reasons). It makes me nervous in any event. I do think that Delon could really elevate his stock by returning and entering next season as one of the premier guards in the country. He would have some buzz all year instead of being a relative unknown for most of the season. Of course, a little more mass, a quicker release and more consistent jumper and the 2015 draft not being as good as this year's would all help him to get drafted higher as well.

Just a nervous nellie is all.

Two Utes
01-09-2014, 04:38 PM
Washington did a good job of closing and defending the corner 3. I would guess that 60% of our made 3's are from the corners. We don't have a guy who can consistently drain a 3 from the angle. Taylor is probably the most likely to make one from that part of the court. I just think that the Huskies made a concerted effort to take that away from us and it threw off our entire offensive flow in the first half.

and Taylor was 2 of 11. You're in a hostile environment, only second time all year, and the stats show it.

LA Ute
01-09-2014, 04:50 PM
I just think that the Huskies made a concerted effort to take that away from us and it threw off our entire offensive flow in the first half.

Yep. They watched video of us and prepared well. Larry even alluded to that in one of his post-game interviews. We can expect that all season long.

SoCalPat
01-09-2014, 05:40 PM
I agree with you. I would still rate Delon as more likely than not to be back next year, but I thought the same about Jake Murphy too (though it was admittedly for very different reasons). It makes me nervous in any event. I do think that Delon could really elevate his stock by returning and entering next season as one of the premier guards in the country. He would have some buzz all year instead of being a relative unknown for most of the season. Of course, a little more mass, a quicker release and more consistent jumper and the 2015 draft not being as good as this year's would all help him to get drafted higher as well.

Just a nervous nellie is all.

It's a Catch-22. The better Utah is this year, the more likely it is that his draft stock continues to rise. And lets be honest -- it's not like we have Delon's family on our side when it comes to evidence that one needs to play college hoops to make it in the league.

SeattleUte
01-09-2014, 08:11 PM
It's a Catch-22. The better Utah is this year, the more likely it is that his draft stock continues to rise. And lets be honest -- it's not like we have Delon's family on our side when it comes to evidence that one needs to play college hoops to make it in the league.

I hope he has a spectacular year, the team excels, and he is the top pick in the 2014 NBA draft. Then we'll be better positioned to get more like him. Some programs take this philosophy for granted. I want the Utes to be part of that ecosystem.

UTEopia
01-09-2014, 08:49 PM
It seems like there is an argument going on here, but I am not sure what it is. From what I can tell, the Utes have basically gotten the same total offensive production from Wright, Love and Taylor in all 3 conference games. A different one of them has led the team in scoring in a game. The difference has been in the other guys. Against Oregon and Oregon St., the center position had points/rebounds of 18/14 and 17/6 respectively. Against UW it was 8/3. The wings had 6 points against Oregon, 16 against Oregon St. and 8 against Washington. It appears to me that the Big 3 will get us 40 − 50 points a game (Oregon - 44, OSU - 47, UW- 41). IMO, the play of the other guys will determine whether the Utes win or lose.

U-Ute
01-10-2014, 03:40 PM
I hope he has a spectacular year, the team excels, and he is the top pick in the 2014 NBA draft. Then we'll be better positioned to get more like him. Some programs take this philosophy for granted. I want the Utes to be part of that ecosystem.

This philosophy is working well for Kentucky and Duke.

Two Utes
01-10-2014, 04:15 PM
It seems like there is an argument going on here, but I am not sure what it is. From what I can tell, the Utes have basically gotten the same total offensive production from Wright, Love and Taylor in all 3 conference games. A different one of them has led the team in scoring in a game. The difference has been in the other guys. Against Oregon and Oregon St., the center position had points/rebounds of 18/14 and 17/6 respectively. Against UW it was 8/3. The wings had 6 points against Oregon, 16 against Oregon St. and 8 against Washington. It appears to me that the Big 3 will get us 40 − 50 points a game (Oregon - 44, OSU - 47, UW- 41). IMO, the play of the other guys will determine whether the Utes win or lose.

Good thoughts. Although 2 for 11 for Taylor doesn't get it done regardless of what Love and Delon do.

LA Ute
02-03-2014, 03:17 PM
OK, we'll use the same thread for the rematch with Washington. Here's Phil Cullen's e-mail from this morning:


Our morning started bright and early today with a film session at 7 am before our guys headed to class. There were a number of possessions that our players needed to watch against Colorado. We left a few possessions on the floor that we would love to have back.

We are looking forward to being back home and in front of our home crowd! We have Washington and Washington State on Thursday and Saturday. Washington is looking to rebound after a tough loss to Washington State this past week. They are a team who has been playing well and took Arizona down to the wire earlier this year. They are led by CJ Wilcox who is 2nd in scoring during conference play at 18.9 ppg. Wilcox is great shooter who has been shooting 45% from 3-pt in conference. After Wilcox are combo guards, Williams-Goss and Andrews. Both are averaging double figures and average over 30 minutes played a game. Click here to see stats (http://email.jumpforwardemail.com/wf/click?upn=4Gl3jowIu-2FT1gqArk0Z7Sow06NBU-2F8Vl2xc-2B1k-2B7QoZmGKnCGfdQnv-2FzTXf6rkLEYB1kjCrVpeAYSRt-2BNfrMrUCwbc8zcDc7zeLFKzaEuvskz6uNqarm6z-2F6gVU-2BTubBIimhFQkdG-2FtVlWbdMki7i50mRcNxBe-2B3jFD8wWcHAL8-3D_JpavFYnoLTX47CpO-2FXOabzjYqG6h2ymjArNh36QzXJZDcMBAuxEsJTakaHJarCcX3 8sDvxvueIZ9Yyp0ilIMv2oJQDRdXeWoHmoF7JzBfjIzu5-2BZeGmFtGxpIR71A-2BcwekTc22UzBMh0Vo7bsW0lxlvqenB8KwyqmAnofcFTet6sBY X2sUwCzUqTS8knB7Pt255K1lJykayuJllxea5G-2B1SMGIeGvJhr7OIL8BHcNNYxLaZdU89PQGaUJhSOoZzDR6Eti a2OrqxrW4ytdGUIQA-3D-3D).

Washington will go with smaller faster lineups than the rest of the Pac-12. The key for us is to get stops and rebound the basketball. We have been out rebounded the last couple of games and it is a major point of emphasis for our staff!

With that said our guys have been in each game that we have played this year. We have 7 losses by an average of 3.7 points. Our players and staff are focused on getting better each day and turning some of these close games into wins. We'll see you Thursday at 7:00 pm against Washington and Saturday at 6:00 pm against WSU!

Thank you for you support and look forward to seeing you in the Huntsman Center!

The Men's Basketball Staff

DrumNFeather
02-04-2014, 06:35 AM
These two games fall into the "must win" category. Sitting at 3-6 in league play, it's hard to find a road victory left on the schedule (maybe SC), so it is paramount that we at least take care of business at home. I had hoped for a .500 or better record this year in league play, but I think that is rapidly slipping away from us as a possible reality. Now we just have to finish strong and avoid Arizona in the first round of the tournament. The good news for us, I think, is that we've been close on the road, and have done well at home, so I feel halfway decent about our chances on a neutral floor.

SoCalPat
02-04-2014, 04:10 PM
These two games fall into the "must win" category. Sitting at 3-6 in league play, it's hard to find a road victory left on the schedule (maybe SC), so it is paramount that we at least take care of business at home. I had hoped for a .500 or better record this year in league play, but I think that is rapidly slipping away from us as a possible reality. Now we just have to finish strong and avoid Arizona in the first round of the tournament. The good news for us, I think, is that we've been close on the road, and have done well at home, so I feel halfway decent about our chances on a neutral floor.

Is 6-3 an attainable goal for this team over the second half of league play? I think it is, despite our struggles to close out close games and win on the road. I will concede a loss to Arizona in a 4-1 home stretch and say we're overdue (dammit) for some good luck on the road and get a win at USC and _______ (my choice is Cal, which has shown to be up and down more than any team in the league). That would make us 9-9 in league play with an 18-10 mark vs. D-1 teams. How we do in Vegas will determine if we're NIT or NCAA bound. Anything less than that will probably result in a CBI bid, which we'll probably get unless we absolutely crater down the stretch (2-7 or worse, one-and-done in Vegas would make us sub-.500 against D-1 teams at 14-15).

Not too early to think about seeding in Vegas, either. While it's possible we can finish anywhere from 2nd to last, 3rd-4th appears very unlikely and there is little value in finishing 5th or 6th, since beating WSU or USC will do little to improve our resume. Finishing 7th or 10th -- if things stand the way they are -- would be significant. Our first-round game would likely be an NIT-elimination game, our second game would come against the No. 2 seed (UCLA right now). I would almost rather finish 10th than 8th or 9th -- while the NIT elimination may still be in play, the winner gets a rested Arizona. But I think finishing 7th puts us in position where the NIT is a lock if we win our opener in Vegas.

sancho
02-04-2014, 04:24 PM
Is 6-3 an attainable goal for this team over the second half of league play?

It depends. Do we believe that Utah is good but unlucky? If so, do we believe that luck tends to even out? Or maybe luck doesn't even out; maybe we are being punished by karma.

Or do we believe that there is something wrong with the team that prevents it from closing out games (we have held a double digit lead in 5 of our last 6 losses).

Could be that it was mostly bad luck that put us at 3-6 but that the team has developed a losing mentality and will now start losing by wider margins.

All I know is that I have a meeting Thursday night that I am mad about. I won't get to see the UW game. I wish I could be there to boo CJ Wilcox.

SoCalPat
02-04-2014, 04:29 PM
It depends. Do we believe that Utah is good but unlucky? If so, do we believe that luck tends to even out? Or maybe luck doesn't even out; maybe we are being punished by karma.

Or do we believe that there is something wrong with the team that prevents it from closing out games (we have held a double digit lead in 5 of our last 6 losses).

Could be that it was mostly bad luck that put us at 3-6 but that the team has developed a losing mentality and will now start losing by wider margins.

All I know is that I have a meeting Thursday night that I am mad about. I won't get to see the UW game. I wish I could be there to boo CJ Wilcox.

We're good, but I believe teams and players "create" their own luck. Witness the 2008 football team.

LA Ute
02-04-2014, 05:23 PM
I listened to part of the Krysko's coach's show podcast and it was interesting. He said that the poor rebounding had him "pretty hot" after the Colorado game, and that he's decided that against taller teams he'll go with a bigger lineup, and specifically mentioned Fields and Onwas as guys who'd get more playing time. He loves Fields' toughness. He also clearly (but kindly) indicated that Tucker is not a rebounder and may get fewer minutes as a result. I suspect he has issues with Dakarai's lack of toughness. He said that we are not big enough to stay even on rebounding against teams like Arizona and Colorado, so "if you're smaller you'd better have good technique and whether you're big or small you'd better be tough."

http://espn.kall700sports.com/larry-krystkowiak-show-2-3-14/

sancho
02-04-2014, 05:59 PM
I listened to part of the Krysko's coach's show podcast and it was interesting. He said that the poor rebounding had him "pretty hot" after the Colorado game, and that he's decided that against taller teams he'll go with a bigger lineup, and specifically mentioned Fields and Onwas as guys who'd get more playing time. He loves Fields' toughness. He also clearly (but kindly) indicated that Tucker is not a rebounder and may get fewer minutes as a result. I suspect he has issues with Dakarai's lack of toughness. He said that we are not big enough to stay even on rebounding against teams like Arizona and Colorado, so "if you're smaller you'd better have good technique and whether you're big or small you'd better be tough."


It's a tough situation. Tucker's shooting has been great, and you can't replace that with Fields or Onwas.

Rebounding is an attitude and an artform. Delon is the only player on the team that is a real rebounder.

SoCalPat
02-04-2014, 06:55 PM
I listened to part of the Krysko's coach's show podcast and it was interesting. He said that the poor rebounding had him "pretty hot" after the Colorado game, and that he's decided that against taller teams he'll go with a bigger lineup, and specifically mentioned Fields and Onwas as guys who'd get more playing time. He loves Fields' toughness. He also clearly (but kindly) indicated that Tucker is not a rebounder and may get fewer minutes as a result. I suspect he has issues with Dakarai's lack of toughness. He said that we are not big enough to stay even on rebounding against teams like Arizona and Colorado, so "if you're smaller you'd better have good technique and whether you're big or small you'd better be tough."

http://espn.kall700sports.com/larry-krystkowiak-show-2-3-14/

Tucker may not be a rebounder, but he's rebounding better in league games (2.6 RPG to 2.3) than he did in the non-con, although increased minutes basically makes it a wash.

More so than his RPG, Tucker's inability to get to the line is the "toughness" metric that isn't doing it for me. Only 15 FTAs in 424 minutes, or once every 28.2 minutes. Brutal.

LA Ute
02-04-2014, 07:07 PM
Tucker may not be a rebounder, but he's rebounding better in league games (2.6 RPG to 2.3) than he did in the non-con, although increased minutes basically makes it a wash.

More so than his RPG, Tucker's inability to get to the line is the "toughness" metric that isn't doing it for me. Only 15 FTAs in 424 minutes, or once every 28.2 minutes. Brutal.

As I think about it, you might be coming close to Larry's real concerns. He said Ahmad had been killing it in practice lately, is a tough kid who "won't back down," and so forth. It seemed pretty clear by implication that Tucker's practices haven't been going so well. It was also clear that Onwas' practices have been up and down, but more "up" lately. Neither Onwas nor Fields is afraid of mixing it up physically with opponents, and they're both 6'5" -- and Onwas is pretty beefy and strong. It'll be interesting to see the lineup Thursday.

Applejack
02-04-2014, 07:26 PM
As I think about it, you might be coming close to Larry's real concerns. He said Ahmad had been killing it in practice lately, is a tough kid who "won't back down," and so forth. It seemed pretty clear by implication that Tucker's practices haven't been going so well. It was also clear that Onwas' practices have been up and down, but more "up" lately. Neither Onwas nor Fields is afraid of mixing it up physically with opponents, and they're both 6'5" -- and Onwas is pretty beefy and strong. It'll be interesting to see the lineup Thursday.

Fields is a D.C. kid - we breed 'em tough.

sancho
02-04-2014, 08:16 PM
We need a mad scientist to combine Tucker, Ogbe, Onwas, and Fields into one.

Tucker and Ogbe for shooting, Onwas for athleticism, and Fields for facial hair.

U-Ute
02-06-2014, 04:28 PM
We need a mad scientist to combine Tucker, Ogbe, Onwas, and Fields into one.

Tucker and Ogbe for shooting, Onwas for athleticism, and Fields for facial hair.

If we have such a scientist, I'd be much more inclined to give Bachynski's body to JO.

Mormon Red Death
02-06-2014, 07:25 PM
That elbow to the head to Delon was nasty

DrumNFeather
02-06-2014, 07:33 PM
Struggling.

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Mormon Red Death
02-06-2014, 07:35 PM
turning the ball over way too much.

DrumNFeather
02-06-2014, 07:49 PM
Nice to get some calls at home. I've missed that.

LA Ute
02-06-2014, 07:58 PM
turning the ball over way too much.

They've managed to stay in the game but will lose if they don't clean up the TOs. I hope Larry has some wise and compelling words for them at halftime.

Applejack
02-06-2014, 08:21 PM
An inbounds play!

Applejack
02-06-2014, 08:28 PM
I hate to criticize our best player (and I've made this point before), but Delon LOVES offense and doesn't love defense.

Mormon Red Death
02-06-2014, 08:41 PM
I hate to criticize our best player (and I've made this point before), but Delon LOVES offense and doesn't love defense.

Are you high?? He is probably or best defender.

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Applejack
02-06-2014, 08:49 PM
Are you high?? He is probably or best defender.

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No, I am not currently high. He is a really good defender (Taylor is our best, I submit), but he should be great. With his quickness, length, and anticipation he should be able to lock down any perimeter guy in the league. Instead, he stands too upright and gets beat off the dribble and goes for the cheap reach around. His athleticism allows him to be an adequate defender, but he really should be an elite one. I just think he half-asses it a lot on D.

Mormon Red Death
02-06-2014, 08:51 PM
No, I am not currently high. He is a really good defender (Taylor is our best, I submit), but he should be great. With his quickness, length, and anticipation he should be able to lock down any perimeter guy in the league. Instead, he stands too upright and gets beat off the dribble and goes for the cheap reach around. His athleticism allows him to be an adequate defender, but he really should be an elite one. I just think he half-asses it a lot on D.

you are crazy. Did you just see that block he just made

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Applejack
02-06-2014, 08:53 PM
A couple of really nice plays by Olson here at the end. He made two really nice passes that led to easy layups and then a good block that led to a run-out. Olson looks a lot more comfortable out there tonight.

LA Ute
02-06-2014, 08:54 PM
I'm loving the way the guys are gutting this out, but I continue to be amazed at how easily other teams get into the paint and to the hoop.

Applejack
02-06-2014, 08:58 PM
you are crazy. Did you just see that block he just made

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He makes great defensive plays, no doubt. His anticipation steal that led to the dunk was a thing of beauty. But he coasts - watch Kodiak when we get back on defense, he's often yelling at Delon. He's a great help defender (picking up steals & blocks off the ball), but he's not a great team defender.

DrumNFeather
02-06-2014, 09:00 PM
CJ Wilcox, what might have been. Thanks Boylen!

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Applejack
02-06-2014, 09:01 PM
CJ Wilcox, what might have been. Thanks Boylen!

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If I were at the game, I would have made a sign that said "CJ, you could have been Jordan Loveridge. You blew it."

Mormon Red Death
02-06-2014, 09:02 PM
He makes great defensive plays, no doubt. His anticipation steal that led to the dunk was a thing of beauty. But he coasts - watch Kodiak when we get back on defense, he's often yelling at Delon. He's a great help defender (picking up steals & blocks off the ball), but he's not a great team defender.

he will be all conference defensive team.

DrumNFeather
02-06-2014, 09:05 PM
Nice win. I like the way we closed it out. If Zona wins, we can move up, but that is in doubt arthritis moment.

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Applejack
02-06-2014, 09:08 PM
Nice win. I like the way we closed it out. If Zona wins, we can move up, but that is in doubt arthritis moment.

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I would like to taste .500 in Pac play before we face the UCLA/Zona couplet.

sancho
02-06-2014, 09:22 PM
CJ Wilcox, what might have been. Thanks Boylen!

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Don't blame Boylen. Blame Wilcox. And boo him all game long.

Scratch
02-06-2014, 10:12 PM
That second half was some of the best offensive basketball I've seen out of a Utah basketball team in quite some time. They were really clicking against a pretty athletic team. A lot of impressive court vision and crisp, clean passes. Also did a better job taking care of the ball after a lousy first half.

Olsen and Bach both looked good, but we really need more boards out of that spot. 6 boards in 41 minutes from the big 3 just won't cut it. That said, thanks to Loveridge we still outrebounded UW by 10.

sancho
02-07-2014, 08:31 AM
If we have such a scientist, I'd be much more inclined to give Bachynski's body to JO.

Genetics has been pretty disappointing as a science so far. Even worse than chemistry.

sancho
02-07-2014, 08:32 AM
Olsen and Bach both looked good, but we really need more boards out of that spot. 6 boards in 41 minutes from the big 3 just won't cut it. That said, thanks to Loveridge we still outrebounded UW by 10.

I didn't see the game thanks to an evening meeting. But we outrebounded them as a team. Maybe our bigs sealed things off for Loveridge and the others?