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Two Utes
01-29-2014, 09:28 AM
like Atlanta were for a little snow? We deal with this stuff every other week. If there is some sort of national disaster this country is absolutely screwed.

concerned
01-29-2014, 09:40 AM
like Atlanta were for a little snow? We deal with this stuff every other week. If there is some sort of national disaster this country is absolutely screwed.

Its a little different--mostly ice, not snow; its like driving on a hockey rink. Cars don't have snow tires or AWD. I would bet that the % of cars with front wheel drive is less too.

Brian
01-29-2014, 09:52 AM
Yes, it's bad. No trucks to deal with it. No snow tires. Very major roads will get salted, but not much else. It's a ghost town here at work today. Yes some people are weenies and freak out at the sight of a single flake, but some people cannot get out of their neighbourhoods. Last night I almost had to park about 1 mile from home and walk because the road into my neighbourhood was all ice and has a good incline. It's not going to get above freezing today, so not much melting. Non-major roads are just compacted snow now. It 16 degrees right now, high looks to be low 20s. It's a disaster when this happens.

Solon
01-29-2014, 10:46 AM
Yes, it's bad. No trucks to deal with it. No snow tires. Very major roads will get salted, but not much else. It's a ghost town here at work today. Yes some people are weenies and freak out at the sight of a single flake, but some people cannot get out of their neighbourhoods. Last night I almost had to park about 1 mile from home and walk because the road into my neighbourhood was all ice and has a good incline. It's not going to get above freezing today, so not much melting. Non-major roads are just compacted snow now. It 16 degrees right now, high looks to be low 20s. It's a disaster when this happens.

I"m with twoutes. It's amusing - and a little shocking. Kids spending the night at schools. Abandoning cars on the freeway. It's armageddon out there.
I wonder how they would do with a legitimate emergency that came with very little warning.

When I lived in the DC area - a place that gets small amounts of snow pretty regularly, BTW, a forecast for snow would incite masses of people to head to the grocery store to empty the shelves of bottled water, bread, milk, and toilet-paper. It was as if they thought it completely possible that they would be marooned at home for weeks on end. Madness.

Scratch
01-29-2014, 11:02 AM
When I lived in the DC area - a place that gets small amounts of snow pretty regularly, BTW, a forecast for snow would incite masses of people to head to the grocery store to empty the shelves of bottled water, bread, milk, and toilet-paper. It was as if they thought it completely possible that they would be marooned at home for weeks on end. Madness.

Connecticut was the exact same way, and Connecticut got LOTS of snow. I could never understand what was going on.

LA Ute
01-29-2014, 11:02 AM
My colleagues in D.C. laugh about this and admit that everyone there freaks out with a little snow. Here in L.A. traffic is snarled whenever there is rain. In Salt Lake, IIRC, when it rains people simply put on coats, go about their business and might -- might! -- drive a little slower if the rain is heavy. Here we have to scramble around looking for a raincoat and an umbrella, which we usually have stored somewhere in case of a rain emergency.

DrumNFeather
01-29-2014, 11:22 AM
My colleagues in D.C. laugh about this and admit that everyone there freaks out with a little snow. Here in L.A. traffic is snarled whenever there is rain. In Salt Lake, IIRC, when it rains people simply put on coats, go about their business and might -- might! -- drive a little slower if the rain is heavy. Here we have to scramble around looking for a raincoat and an umbrella, which we usually have stored somewhere in case of a rain emergency.

The reality is though, you don't want a good 75% of the people that live here driving in the snow because they have no earthly idea how to. Heck, they can barely drive in the rain sometimes. I honestly think that most of the time when things are cancelled or closed it is to protect most of us from the other idiots out there that might attempt to drive in the snow/ice.

GarthUte
01-29-2014, 11:41 AM
like Atlanta were for a little snow? We deal with this stuff every other week. If there is some sort of national disaster this country is absolutely screwed.

I hear what you're saying, but it would be a waste of tax payer dollars for those cities to have the necessary equipment for days like these that only happen once every 10-20 years. It's like the waste of money the pumps are for when the Great Salt Lake rises to disastrous levels.

LA Ute
01-29-2014, 11:41 AM
The reality is though, you don't want a good 75% of the people that live here driving in the snow because they have no earthly idea how to. Heck, they can barely drive in the rain sometimes. I honestly think that most of the time when things are cancelled or closed it is to protect most of us from the other idiots out there that might attempt to drive in the snow/ice.

Good point.

Brian
01-29-2014, 12:04 PM
I hear what you're saying, but it would be a waste of tax payer dollars for those cities to have the necessary equipment for days like these that only happen once every 10-20 years. It's like the waste of money the pumps are for when the Great Salt Lake rises to disastrous levels.

at least where I live, this happens probably every other year.
Still, that's a lot of coin to lay out for equipment that will only be used a few days every now and then. Tomorrow will get a little warmer, problem gone. The problem with this storm, at least where I live, is that the forecast was way off. It was 20% chance of light snow in the AM. Turned out to be light snow in the AM, and then 2-3 inches of snow after lunch, and then temps dropped to 5 degrees overnight.

Bonus today as nobody is bothering me in my office.

tooblue
01-29-2014, 12:27 PM
I"m with twoutes. It's amusing - and a little shocking. Kids spending the night at schools. Abandoning cars on the freeway. It's armageddon out there.
I wonder how they would do with a legitimate emergency that came with very little warning.

When I lived in the DC area - a place that gets small amounts of snow pretty regularly, BTW, a forecast for snow would incite masses of people to head to the grocery store to empty the shelves of bottled water, bread, milk, and toilet-paper. It was as if they thought it completely possible that they would be marooned at home for weeks on end. Madness.

It's more than amusing, it's a tragedy. How can people in the south be so helpless. It's -12c today. We currently have nearly a foot of snow on top of the 4 inches of ice covering the ground, that arrived 5 weeks ago in December. The ice and the snow on top of it won't melt until March at the earliest. The past two days the environment ministry issued a wind chill warning. Over night it was -17 to -20c but with the wind chill felt like -30c.

What's more, we went without power for the three days leading up to Christmas Eve. My in-laws were without power for seven days! Madness indeed.

Brian
01-29-2014, 01:00 PM
Interesting article on snow here.


http://gizmodo.com/why-the-south-fell-apart-in-the-snow-1511566912

Diehard Ute
01-29-2014, 01:06 PM
No better or worse than the rest of us, I would guess. This storm came without warning.



Maybe that's because they have been marooned at home for weeks on end. In North Carolina, an ice storm knocked out power to my apartment for a week. I could not get out of my apartment complex for two days because of all the trees that were down.



Right, like there's some magic technique. In snow, you drive slow. That's about all there is to it, and if you try it on nothing but ice, even a driver as good as you will slide right off the road.

I was amused by it all at first as well, but then I noticed that everything - car, road, tree branches - was completely coated in a think layer of ice. I've never seen anything like it in Utah. Simply attempting to dive on a hockey rink qualifies one as a bad driver.

We've had some good ice storms in salt lake the last couple of years.

And there is actually more to driving in snow than going slow. The biggest mistake people make driving in snow (or ice) is trying to accelerate or brake while steering. It's something that we're taught in our pursuit driving training, but most people never learn (drivers ed does a really craptasitc job teaching useful driving skills)

The other big thing with snow (or ice) driving is understanding roadway surfaces. Overpasses ice first due to air flow under them, they're also more likely to succumb to black ice. Braking and acceleration should be avoided on overpasses during cold weather. Often just coasting instead of keeping your foot on the gas can help.

Now will this solve the south's issues, no. But there is a lot you can do to make driving in snow easier. (Working graveyard shifts we often respond to calls in 6-8" of unplowed snow for hours, without 4 wheel drive or snow tires. Our department just purchased our first ever AWD car 6 months ago)

chrisrenrut
01-29-2014, 01:07 PM
No better or worse than the rest of us, I would guess. This storm came without warning.



Maybe that's because they have been marooned at home for weeks on end. In North Carolina, an ice storm knocked out power to my apartment for a week. I could not get out of my apartment complex for two days because of all the trees that were down.



Right, like there's some magic technique. In snow, you drive slow. That's about all there is to it, and if you try it on nothing but ice, even a driver as good as you will slide right off the road.

I was amused by it all at first as well, but then I noticed that everything - car, road, tree branches - was completely coated in a think layer of ice. I've never seen anything like it in Utah. Simply attempting to dive on a hockey rink qualifies one as a bad driver.

We had an ice storm in Utah last winter. It was the only one I can ever remember here. We handled it better traffic wise because of the salt and sand the plows were able to lay down.

The ice was on top of a couple of feet of pretty recent snow. Seeing the way the ice made the snow seem to shimmer was one of the coolest things I have ever seen.

Diehard Ute
01-29-2014, 01:13 PM
Interesting article on snow here.


http://gizmodo.com/why-the-south-fell-apart-in-the-snow-1511566912

He makes some excellent points.

He also makes a lot of assumptions about places that get lots of snow. To say there's never large amounts of snow on major roads in a place like Salt Lake is absurd at best.

It usually takes UDOT 12-24 hours to get roads such as 700 east and State Street clear during a decent storm. They're usually packed with 2-4" of snow until several hours after it stops snowing.

wally
01-29-2014, 03:12 PM
Right, like there's some magic technique. In snow, you drive slow. That's about all there is to it, and if you try it on nothing but ice, even a driver as good as you will slide right off the road.

LOL! I have seen drivers in the Russian Urals drive on packed ice roads winter after winter. They don't plow or salt there, and in the thick of winter the temps hover between -40 and -15 C. There is technique to driving in snow/ice which includes, but is not limited to slower speeds.

Applejack
01-29-2014, 03:25 PM
You guys need to lay off of D.C.

(1) the ice here is much worse than Utah. It's a wet snow here, not that soft, cuddly stuff that falls in Salt Lake. The place is like a hockey rink.
(2) we don't want any snowplows. We have plenty of unusable government vehicles, thankyouverymuch.
(3) snow days are amazing!@


It's more than amusing, it's a tragedy. How can people in the south be so helpless. It's -12c today. We currently have nearly a foot of snow on top of the 4 inches of ice covering the ground, that arrived 5 weeks ago in December. The ice and the snow on top of it won't melt until March at the earliest. The past two days the environment ministry issued a wind chill warning. Over night it was -17 to -20c but with the wind chill felt like -30c.

What's more, we went without power for the three days leading up to Christmas Eve. My in-laws were without power for seven days! Madness indeed.

You need to move.

jrj84105
01-29-2014, 03:30 PM
When I first moved to Memphis I made the mistake of stopping for groceries on my way home from work when a few flurries were starting to fall. People were driving like idiots (going faster to beat the snow?), and the grocery store was a zoo so I aborted that trip and went home. Where I grew up drivers education was required and offered in the public schools. In Tennessee it is neither required nor offered at many schools. Those that can pay for private instruction. I think it shows in the general lack of even basic driving skills for many drivers. Also I was convinced that in order to catch up for the general slow pace of Southern culture, people try to make up time on roads :)

Rocker Ute
01-29-2014, 03:46 PM
I see more cases of overconfidence in Utah that lead to accidents than anything. People in 4WD's don't realize that everyone has 4-wheel brakes, people drive too close and then if and when the inevitable sliding occurs they either slam on their brakes and lock things up or turn the wrong when if their back end starts to slide out.

My guess is much of the carnage in the south is because of the last two things... people panicking and doing the wrong things. There is an art to driving in the snow and while I've owned a few different 4WD SUVs they've been for my wife and I spend most of my time in a 2WD car. I can only think of one time I wasn't able to get directly to where I wanted to go and that was because I was a poor college student with bald tires on my car.

I spent about 10 years commuting to Park City without issue except the last year of that commute where I had about 5 near misses from tourists uncertain on how to drive in the snow and one semi that jack-knifed right in front of me with the back of the trailer swinging within inches of my front fender, how I avoided that I'm not sure.

That cured me of wanting to drive in the snow any more because it doesn't matter how good you are if everyone else around you is driving like an idiot.

LA Ute
01-29-2014, 04:02 PM
I've always loved this video. I think it's from last winter. Setting: Bountiful, Utah. It supports Rocker's view of how foolishly some people drive in the snow.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrJuigh2aCc

Sullyute
01-29-2014, 04:09 PM
There is an art to driving in the snow and while I've owned a few different 4WD SUVs they've been for my wife and I spend most of my time in a 2WD car. I can only think of one time I wasn't able to get directly to where I wanted to go and that was because I was a poor college student with bald tires on my car.

I have driven rear-wheel drive, manual, convertibles for the last 20 years and have never had an accident or gotten stuck because of the snow. I pay attention to my car and the cars around me. I try not to come to a complete stop on inclines, and drive extra slow on declines. Learning how to control the rear end of your car on slick roads is not that hard to do and just takes a little practice. I love to drive in the snow (when idiots are not around).

However, I have driven on black ice and it is very difficult to control your vehicle so I understand why people have problems when ice storms hit.

U-Ute
01-29-2014, 04:17 PM
Shouldn't this be in the Trains, Planes, and Automobiles forum?

Either way... I saw this today.

1035

Sullyute
01-29-2014, 04:36 PM
I've always loved this video. I think it's from last winter. Setting: Bountiful, Utah. It supports Rocker's view of how foolishly some people drive in the snow.


Wow, that was funny/scary at the same time. That was a very steep hill. They were dumb for attempting it. There are plenty of streets along the benches that people would be crazy to attempt to traverse when they are snow covered.

mUUser
01-29-2014, 04:47 PM
I'd much rather drive in a foot of snow in SL than an inch of, ahem, "snow" in the south.

As for skills necessary for snow & ice driving, maybe 30 years ago there was some magic skill involved, but with the advances of ALB, hill descent control and a gazillion other safety devices in newer cars, it really comes down to slowing down and putting distance between you and the guy in front of you.

LA Ute
01-29-2014, 04:48 PM
Wow, that was funny/scary at the same time. That was a very steep hill. They were dumb for attempting it. There are plenty of streets along the benches that people would be crazy to attempt to traverse when they are snow covered.

I was amazed at the speed with which some of those jokers approached that mess. There could have been some serious injuries.

Diehard Ute
01-29-2014, 05:01 PM
Wow, that was funny/scary at the same time. That was a very steep hill. They were dumb for attempting it. There are plenty of streets along the benches that people would be crazy to attempt to traverse when they are snow covered.

The problem exists because most people only know one way to get anywhere. So if that road is bad, or closed, they're totally lost. You would not believe how many people try to drive past police closures because "that's the only way I know to go"

Rocker Ute
01-29-2014, 05:16 PM
The problem exists because most people only know one way to get anywhere. So if that road is bad, or closed, they're totally lost. You would not believe how many people try to drive past police closures because "that's the only way I know to go"

You should see the Louis CK bit about people forcing their way through 4 lanes of traffic at the last second because it is their favorite way to go... Some line about, "But that is my favorite way to go, other way only meets 99% of my criteria..."

LA Ute
01-29-2014, 10:15 PM
And now for the heart-warming stuff:

http://www.businessinsider.com/snowedoutatlanta-facebook-page-2014-1

Two Utes
01-30-2014, 09:22 AM
like Atlanta were for a little snow? We deal with this stuff every other week. If there is some sort of national disaster this country is absolutely screwed.

Fortunately it only snowed one inch here in Salt Lake today. If we had two inches it might be chaos. I'm just wondering why more people on the freeway didn't think to get off the freeway and use surface roads.

U-Ute
01-30-2014, 09:28 AM
Fortunately it only snowed one inch here in Salt Lake today. If we had two inches it might be chaos. I'm just wondering why more people on the freeway didn't think to get off the freeway and use surface roads.

One inch? I have 4" on the road in front of my house.

I guess I got up before the snow plows.

UBlender
01-30-2014, 10:31 AM
One inch? I have 4" on the road in front of my house.

I guess I got up before the snow plows.


Definitely more than an inch out in Really West Jordan.

I got a chance to practice my ninja-like snow driving skills and have been looking forward to coming to this thread so I can brag about my expertise and pontificate on the things that make me a better snow-driver than pretty much everyone else. I'm not going to share until you guys sufficiently beg, though.

Sullyute
01-30-2014, 10:52 AM
Definitely more than an inch out in Really West Jordan.

I got a chance to practice my ninja-like snow driving skills and have been looking forward to coming to this thread so I can brag about my expertise and pontificate on the things that make me a better snow-driver than pretty much everyone else. I'm not going to share until you guys sufficiently beg, though.


Drivers (http://www.livescience.com/26528-multitasking-bad-productivity.html) consistently rate themselves as better than average -- even when a test of their hazard perception reveals them to be below par, said Mark Horswill, a psychologist at the University of Queensland in Australia.



In a study conducted some time ago, 93% of American students thought their driving skills were better than half of those surveyed -- a mathematical impossibility that has not changed.


I am sure that these statements apply to many on this board, myself excluded...of course. ;)

U-Ute
01-30-2014, 03:52 PM
I am sure that these statements apply to many on this board, myself excluded...of course. ;)

Classic Dunning-Kruger (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect).

Sullyute
01-30-2014, 04:08 PM
Classic Dunning-Kruger (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect).

Don't worry, my wife reminds me of my illusory superiority every day. :D

Rocker Ute
01-30-2014, 04:28 PM
Definitely more than an inch out in Really West Jordan.

I got a chance to practice my ninja-like snow driving skills and have been looking forward to coming to this thread so I can brag about my expertise and pontificate on the things that make me a better snow-driver than pretty much everyone else. I'm not going to share until you guys sufficiently beg, though.

I don't want to go too much out on a limb, but I'm pretty sure I am a better driver in the snow than 100% of the Ublender population.

wally
01-30-2014, 04:53 PM
Take your Russian friend and ask him to drive on a hockey rink without slipping. If he can handle it, I will believe. If Diehard wants to try his police car on the same rink, I will buy what he's selling too. Sometimes there really simply is such a thing as undriveable ice.

Sorry sancho, I hope that you know that I will always love you and your lucky button, but there are no zambonies smoothing out road ice to a nigh-zero coefficient of friction, and I don't but that ice back east is WAYYY worse than ice out in the podunk west. Some people just aren't accustomed to driving on ice. Out west, where the real men live, we are, and we are prepared for it!

Homer Crimson
02-05-2014, 12:04 PM
I have driven rear-wheel drive, manual, convertibles for the last 20 years and have never had an accident or gotten stuck because of the snow.

One of the best snow cars I ever had was a '67 Camaro convertible with three-on-the-tree. I drove that thing in blizzard conditions with little effort. Man, I miss that car- it was even red with a white top- perfect Utemobile.

DrumNFeather
02-12-2014, 12:49 PM
It's about to hit here in the D.C. area in t-minues 4-5 hours, anywhere from 6-18 inches. People are acting like it is the day before a long holiday around here.

Sullyute
02-12-2014, 02:08 PM
It's about to hit here in the D.C. area in t-minues 4-5 hours, anywhere from 6-18 inches. People are acting like it is the day before a long holiday around here.

Well stay safe in the storm.

Applejack
02-12-2014, 02:51 PM
It's about to hit here in the D.C. area in t-minues 4-5 hours, anywhere from 6-18 inches. People are acting like it is the day before a long holiday around here.

I went to the supermarket last night and thought I was in Sochi.

DrumNFeather
02-12-2014, 05:07 PM
I went to the supermarket last night and thought I was in Sochi.

Sochi would kill for this storm!

Sent from my LG-E970 using Tapatalk 2

DrumNFeather
02-12-2014, 05:08 PM
Well stay safe in the storm.

People are pretty conservative here when it comes to these storms, most schools and government offices are already closed.

Sent from my LG-E970 using Tapatalk 2

Brian
02-12-2014, 08:14 PM
It's really piling up here. 3 inches, and still coming down.

Applejack
02-13-2014, 06:59 AM
It's really piling up here. 3 inches, and still coming down.

I've never seen so much snow in D.C. before. We have at least 8 inches out there and I haven't seen a snow plow yet.

LA Ute
02-13-2014, 07:02 AM
I've never seen so much snow in D.C. before. We have at least 8 inches out there and I haven't seen a snow plow yet.

Our D.C. office is closed today. I have to call everyone there on their cell phones or just use email.

Applejack
02-13-2014, 07:10 AM
Our D.C. office is closed today. I have to call everyone there on their cell phones or just use email.

Your office in LA? Or your office in D.C?

LA Ute
02-13-2014, 07:22 AM
Your office in LA? Or your office in D.C?

It's going to be about 72 degrees in L.A. today, so we are all going to man up and get into the office. It's the DC office that is closed - understandably, from what I hear about conditions there. Our N.Y. office has already been closed a couple of days this year. Very unusual.

DrumNFeather
02-13-2014, 07:24 AM
It's going to be about 72 degrees in L.A. today, so we are all going to man up and get into the office. It's the DC office that is closed - understandably, from what I hear about conditions there. Our N.Y. office has already been closed a couple of days this year. Very unusual.

Yep, we're getting pounded out here. Probably close to a foot or more of snow right now and still coming down.

Applejack
02-13-2014, 07:27 AM
Yep, we're getting pounded out here. Probably close to a foot or more of snow right now and still coming down.

And still no plows! You have to love D.C.

Brian
02-13-2014, 07:49 AM
probably 7-8 inches here. they dropped sauce all over the roads yesterday afternoon, so the roads are ok. It's much warmer that last storm, so no ice.

Applejack
02-13-2014, 07:51 AM
probably 7-8 inches here. they dropped sauce all over the roads yesterday afternoon, so the roads are ok. It's much warmer that last storm, so no ice.

Where are you again?

Brian
02-13-2014, 08:47 AM
Where are you again?

knoxville

LA Ute
02-13-2014, 09:31 AM
Our New York office is closed now. 5/7 of our lawyers are working at home today.

Diehard Ute
02-13-2014, 09:42 AM
Our New York office is closed now. 5/7 of our lawyers are working at home today.

I'm impressed you can get that many lawyers to work anywhere ;)

Applejack
02-13-2014, 10:11 AM
knoxville

Ah. I just visited your lovely state for the first time last month.

DrumNFeather
02-13-2014, 10:44 AM
First round of shoveling complete...gonna be sore tomorrow.

Applejack
02-13-2014, 10:57 AM
First round of shoveling complete...gonna be sore tomorrow.

I'm hoping my neighbor will do it. :Ashamed:

LA Ute
02-13-2014, 11:06 AM
I'm impressed you can get that many lawyers to work anywhere ;)

Well, they're located at home today.

DrumNFeather
02-13-2014, 11:14 AM
I'm hoping my neighbor will do it. :Ashamed:

Haha...I'm in a townhome, so there is a pretty good game of chicken that goes on between some of the neighbors on my street. Luckily for us, we're in a group that basically has everyone take their turn and help each other out.

Applejack
02-13-2014, 11:20 AM
Haha...I'm in a townhome, so there is a pretty good game of chicken that goes on between some of the neighbors on my street. Luckily for us, we're in a group that basically has everyone take their turn and help each other out.

During the last storm, the guy across the street snow-blew (new verb!) his street and ours! Today, he just did his side of the street. What a lazy dude!

Brian
02-13-2014, 12:36 PM
Ah. I just visited your lovely state for the first time last month.

hope it's not the last. yodel next time if you get bored. we can go grab a slushy and skittles at the QuickE Mart. I know the owner, he'll let us have free refills.

Applejack
02-13-2014, 12:45 PM
hope it's not the last. yodel next time if you get bored. we can go grab a slushy and skittles at the QuickE Mart. I know the owner, he'll let us have free refills.

I'll be back soon (April, I think). But I'll be in Nashville, not Knoxville.

Applejack
02-14-2014, 02:19 PM
I just shoveled my walks. Lousy neighbor. :swear: