As condescending as holding everyone other than yourself to a higher standard? Maybe.
Printable View
My sister in law has flipped from gay to straight back to gay again over the last 20 years, my father in law has handled that about as well as anybody possibly could. I've never heard him utter a negative word and has been more than welcoming to all of her partners. No way could I have been that understanding.
I HATE this argument. Well, everyone else does it, so it's ok.
We are supposed to be led by a prophet that has direct revelation from God. We should be the FIRST to do what's right, not the LAST.
The last time we were in this predicament, the Civil Rights Act was passed in 1964. We didn't change until 1978.
That's unacceptable.
A couple of months ago, during ward conference, my bishop, a retread called back in because his predecessor suddenly moved out of the ward, talked about the difference between policy and doctrine. He was a missionary in Texas before 1978, and he related a story where a member was upset when a black member was invited to the chapel for the general priesthood session broadcast. This individual stated that if blacks were ever given the priesthood, he would leave the church. Within in a matter of months, the policy was changed. My bishop made the point that while the policy had changed, the doctrine of the priesthood had not. Other policies have changed in my lifetime, another example used by my bishop was the move to the 3 hour meeting block.
I expect that the policy that was leaked a while back will eventually be changed, perhaps even sooner than we think, but the doctrine on marriage will not.
Dude, I don't live in the US. So, I'm not sure how much more you want me to get out? The point is, the issues funk is all worked up about aren't exclusive to Mormons, though that's what he'd have you believe. Ironically, your point reinforces that fact; that intolerance is rampant all across the entirety of the US among a majority of Americans, because while the State of Utah (heavily populated by those not-worth-noticing backwards Mormons) has passed landmark legislation protecting LGBT rights, other states are currently or have recently passed legislation curtailing LGBT rights. In that light, it can be argued the LDS church and it's members are ahead of the curve. I don't know that I fully agree with such an argument, but it can be made.
You are putting a lot of words in my mouth.
No the issue is not isolated to Mormons not in the slightest. Mormons though visibly and actively attempted to deny homosexuals rights. So sorry I'm not giving you any ally cookies for a video is barely even a baby step in a 2 million mile journey.
That legislation you talk of is not landmark. It was a few common sense things like homosexuals should be allowed to have jobs and housing mixed in with a bunch of unneeded religious freedom bullshit. The argument that the LDS Church and its members are ahead of the curve is laughable.
Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk
"Utah — yes, Utah — passes landmark LGBT rights bill"—Washington Post:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.63d8ae027272
"As Anti-LGBT Laws Sweep U.S., How Did GOP-Led Utah Pass a Landmark Nondiscrimination Bill?"—Democracynow.org:
https://www.democracynow.org/2016/4/..._laws_sweep_us
"Utah passes landmark LGBT rights bill backed by Mormon leaders"—L.A. Times:
http://www.latimes.com/nation/nation...312-story.html
"LGBT anti-discrimination bill passes Utah Senate ... Members of Utah's state Senate told personal stories of discrimination and even invoked the state's polygamist history during a Friday afternoon debate on a landmark bill that protects gay and transgender people from discrimination while also protecting religious rights."—Daily Mail Online:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/ap/...Utah-test.html
"Utah Passes Antidiscrimination Bill Backed by Mormon Leaders ... 'It is a landmark,” said Sarah Warbelow, legal director of the Human Rights Campaign, a national gay rights organization. “This is a Republican-controlled Legislature with a Republican governor, and this will be the first time that a Republican-controlled process has led to extension of protections for L.G.B.T. people.'"—New York Times:
https://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/12/u...ders.html?_r=0
One more, edited in for interests sake ...
"Utah Senate passes LGBT anti-discrimination bill ... Mormon church backs landmark bill banning housing and employment discrimination, though religious groups are exempt"—Al Jazeera America:
http://america.aljazeera.com/article...tion-bill.html
Then apparently you need to get in the US more to see how little Mormonism matters here. Claiming that Mormon culture is intertwined with American culture is pretty arrogant. Yes, kudos to the Utah State Legislature for passing that bill. That's awesome. But are you conflating them to the Mormon Church? Are you acknowledging the Utah is a theocracy? LGBT rights have expanded greatly in the US over the last three years, while the LDS church bans ssm couples and their children, treating them worse than murderers, rapists, and the like. The policy will ultimately change as so many others have, but it's too bad the patriarchy continues to blame their old white straight conservative male biases on God.
This is where I have a little bit of an issue. I get what you are saying. I understand the policy vs doctrine. BUT, wasn't the blacks and priesthood taught as doctrine?
If not, then where do we draw the line when it comes to following the prophet? Do I HAVE to follow the prophet, even if his policies are wrong (according to McConkie, yes). If the answer is yes, then what about my free agency and my ability to receive inspiration from the holy ghost?
BTW, Joseph Fielding Smith said in "The Way to Perfection", p. 110 that the Church's view on blacks and the priesthood was doctrine, not policy.
What happens when the doctrine on gay marriage becomes policy after we change it?
This
This is what we fail to remember. These are just men, who are doing their best to help us do their best. I'm not so sure they are anything other than that, just like every other church out there. That is why their stances on homosexuality are so hard to hear.
Are they from god, or are they just an older man's prejudices and fears?
My heart tells me this isn't from God.
honestly, I'm not sure anyone can argue with Hayes6 point.
As an active LDS member, I am still struggling with the recent decision and rationale behind treating gay couples children any differently. I am fortunate that my bishop is not a hard-line type when it came to my last TR interview.
I don't want to dive into this discussion but I'll just note that the same policy applies to children of polygamous parents. In fact, this one was modeled on that one. I have issues with how the new policy was rolled out, among other things, but I don't think it singles out any group. Ugh. I hate this.
Like many things, the policy was an answer seeking a problem. The policy of the LDS Church has always been that minors need parental permission to receive an LDS Church ordinance. This policy preventing such ordinances to the children of same sex marriages, even when the parents consent, is unnecessary. I guess that, instead of the parents saying no to Johnny's baptism, the parents can now say that the church you want to join won't let you join because of our marriage.
I was born and raised in Utah. I visit often. As an American and devout Mormon who currently lives outside the US, I can authoritatively state: the two cultures are inextricably linked. As well, it could be agued that one could not exist without the other. In fact, that is often what was taught in (LDS) church when I was growing up—that the restoration could only have happened in the United States of America, with a constitution guaranteeing certain inalienable rights. In particular the right to freedom of religion.
Leo Tolstoy considers Mormonism the American Religion:
http://www.deseretnews.com/article/8...-Religion.html
Additionally, the articles I linked to above contradict your assertions concerning the [great] expansion of LGBT rights in the US. Utah and it's laws that were backed by the LDS church and passed by legislators, a majority of which are active LDS,* is an outlier among what can be considered conservative US states. What's more, the reality is, any rights afforded to LGBT individuals in any state in the US is a fairly recent phenomenon. In contrast, I live in a country where LGBT individuals have had such rights for more than ten years. Including the right to marry:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/timeli...nada-1.1147516
*http://www.sltrib.com/home/4663941-1...ntative-of-the
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tribune