You said people are still defending the Soviet Union and calling Stalin an aberation. Emma Goldman died over 70 years ago. She also eventually wised up considerably about the Soviet Union. In any event, forgive her, a native Russian, for supporting a revolutionary movement that brought down the Czar and theocracy in Russia which were not much better than the Soviet Union (as the status quo -- led by Putin, a devout Orthodox Christian -- demonstrates).
One thing I have learned in a long life: that all our science, measured against reality, is primitive and childlike -- and yet it is the most precious thing we have.
--Albert Einstein
The fact that life evolved out of nearly nothing, some 10 billion years after the universe evolved out of literally nothing, is a fact so staggering that I would be mad to attempt words to do it justice.
--Richard Dawkins
Be kind to all, for everyone you meet is fighting a great battle.
--Philo
No, no, no. That's not what I said. Not even close. I said this:
By "that," I was referring directly to this quotation from a Buzzfeed piece:The point is, Romney was right about that and the Left, which has always gotten Russia wrong, was wrong again this time.
In the most actively cited example of the Republican nominee’s foresight, Romneyites point to the candidate’s hardline rhetoric last year against Russian President Vladimir Putin and his administration. During the campaign, Romney frequently criticized Obama for foolishly attempting to make common cause with the Kremlin, and repeatedly referred to Russia as “our number one geopolitical foe.”
Many observers found this fixation strange, and Democrats tried to turn it into a punchline. A New York Times editorial in March of last year said Romney’s assertions regarding Russia represented either “a shocking lack of knowledge about international affairs or just craven politics.” And in an October debate, Obama sarcastically mocked his opponent’s Russia rhetoric. “The 1980s are now calling to ask for their foreign policy back because the Cold War’s been over for 20 years,” the president quipped at the time.You guys are brutal.P.S. I didn't highjack the thread. You posed the question "Miss me yet," and I responded with the unanimous answer (present company excepted).
carter-miss-me-yet.jpg
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
--Yeats
“True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”
--John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
--Yeats
“True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”
--John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
--Yeats
“True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”
--John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell
One thing I have learned in a long life: that all our science, measured against reality, is primitive and childlike -- and yet it is the most precious thing we have.
--Albert Einstein
The fact that life evolved out of nearly nothing, some 10 billion years after the universe evolved out of literally nothing, is a fact so staggering that I would be mad to attempt words to do it justice.
--Richard Dawkins
Be kind to all, for everyone you meet is fighting a great battle.
--Philo
Hardly! As I mentioned above, GWB felt he could trust Putin because he is a Christian (at least nominally) and wears a cross. Also he has twin daughters like GWB, so they really bonded over those issues. Perhaps he dismissed the fact that Putin was the head of the KGB in the 80s-90s because GHWB was head of the CIA back in the 70s.
But the bottom line is he let his strong cognitive biases blind him to the facts on the ground.
An argument COULD be made that's Obama overstepped in his trust of Putin when he agreed to a one-sided reduction in the nuclear arsenal, but frankly we should get rid of much of our aging stockpiles before they cause problems.
As for Putin being devout, recall he pushed for the band Pussy Riot to be given harsh prison sentences because they criticized Patriarch Kiril of the Russian Orthodox Church. They were given 3 year sentences for doing some this we take for granted in this country.
Also, I hope Romney and the Republican party will collectively look at Putin and recognize his crackdown against gays and gay marriage is bad, and will at least moderate their position on the matter.
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
--Yeats
“True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”
--John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell
One thing I have learned in a long life: that all our science, measured against reality, is primitive and childlike -- and yet it is the most precious thing we have.
--Albert Einstein
The fact that life evolved out of nearly nothing, some 10 billion years after the universe evolved out of literally nothing, is a fact so staggering that I would be mad to attempt words to do it justice.
--Richard Dawkins
Be kind to all, for everyone you meet is fighting a great battle.
--Philo
I agree and I reached that point a long time ago. However, it's my perception that republicans are more wedded to the party label. For example, despite NAFTA and other pro-business actions by Clinton, a Southerner who was quite moderate and not so different from Bush Sr. with respect to foreign policy, etc., Clinton engendered the same kind of hatred as we see directed at Obama, as evidenced by the moribund impeachment proceedings.
One thing I have learned in a long life: that all our science, measured against reality, is primitive and childlike -- and yet it is the most precious thing we have.
--Albert Einstein
The fact that life evolved out of nearly nothing, some 10 billion years after the universe evolved out of literally nothing, is a fact so staggering that I would be mad to attempt words to do it justice.
--Richard Dawkins
Be kind to all, for everyone you meet is fighting a great battle.
--Philo
I thought the Ute player who drove the wrong way, drunk, on the freeway was a thug who should have been tossed from the team. I don't recall what actually happened to him. There are other examples.
I also lean in favor of action in Syria but fear the president has waited too long.
I think you make some important points but if you are saying elections don't matter, I disagree strongly.
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
--Yeats
“True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”
--John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
--Yeats
“True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”
--John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell
I think the president per se is important for two reasons: judicial appointments and foreign policy. The Affordable Care Act would not have been enacted absent a receptive Congress comprised of enough democrats.
However, when you have a president like GW Bush who left office so hugely unpopular you should consider yourself lucky to get a moderate democrat, and I consider both Clinton and Obama to be moderates. I think regarding whether Obama is a "Leftist" I'll take Smiley & West's word for it instead of Norman Podhoritz's, for reasons related to the political gamesmanship identified by sancho.
One thing I have learned in a long life: that all our science, measured against reality, is primitive and childlike -- and yet it is the most precious thing we have.
--Albert Einstein
The fact that life evolved out of nearly nothing, some 10 billion years after the universe evolved out of literally nothing, is a fact so staggering that I would be mad to attempt words to do it justice.
--Richard Dawkins
Be kind to all, for everyone you meet is fighting a great battle.
--Philo
Had whatsisname pulled out of the primaries when he should have, I think Romney would have beat McCain in the primary and likely would have won the General over Obama.
Congress would have delivered a very similar medical plan, dubbed it Romney care (a new plan, patterned after the the old one he installed, where he used to live). And he would have signed it.
You may be book smart, but your arrogance in thinking that you know who I am or what I'm about seems to force you to put me in some sort of little box so that it fits your narrative and makes you look like a buffoon.
I'll give you credit that it has nothing to do with race, but I'd hate him just as much if he was a Republican. My hatred for Obama is that he is an arrogant asshole who believes himself superior to everyone. His far left policies only give me reason to hate his policies and his "good for thee but not for me" attitude about implication of his policies just emphasizes his arrogance.
"Ninety feet between home plate and first base may be the closest man has ever come to perfection." - Red Smith
SU, I am crestfallen and disappointed. I really am. I try to write nuanced posts (OK, I usually try) and it's all lost on you, of all people. For example, I never called Obama a leftist. He isn't. I was careful to say that. I do think he is the most left-leaning president we have had since -- well, maybe ever.
Obamacare was enacted as it is because the Democrats had a veto-proof majority, something that occurs very rarely in U.S. history. Without such a majority there would have been a health care bill but it would have been quite different, probably something along the lines of Bennett-Wyden. My point was that elections matter. Now, that one is not very nuanced, and you should not have missed it.
Cross my heart and hope to die, I promise you that any health care bill Romney got behind as president would have been quite different from Obamacare, and probably from Romneycare too.
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
--Yeats
“True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”
--John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell
\
You didn't call Obama a leftist, but you invoke Duranty and Emma Goldman, and you say "Obama's instincts seem to be is somewhere between liberal and Left, learning hard to the Left," and "I do think he is the most left-leaning president we have had since -- well, maybe ever." That is nuanced all right, sort of like trying to figure out what the definition of is, is.
I think he is the most liberal president since Wilson, but the modern term kind of loses its applicability if you go back too far. Reagan was the most conservative since Coolidge. Whether terms like "liberal" or "conservative" are pejoratives depends on one's point of view. I brought up Goldman and Duranty in support of my (unfortunately) tangential point about the Left historically being wrong about Russia. Obama's not in the same category as those people, as far as I can tell.
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
--Yeats
“True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”
--John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell
Really? More liberal than FDR who enacted social security and advocated entry into World War II? More liberal than Truman who undertook the Berlin airlift, established NATO, developed the policy of containment, reconstructed Japan, and opposed Jim Crow and other segregation? More liberal than Johnson, who enacted the 1964 Civil Rights Act, medicare, and medicaid and appointed the first black Supreme Court justice? More liberal than Reagan, who repudiated nuclear arms control treaties with the Soviets, comparing this process (at least implicitly) to Neville Chamberlain's appeasment of Nazis?
These actions were all radical departures from historical norms and/or the status quo. I would call them "liberal" actions. Obama has not even clearly supported gay marriage. His only "liberal" activity has been the Affordable Care Act, which I don't think is as radical a departure as the examples I used above. How is Wilson more liberal than the presidents I've identified in this post? (I hope I would not want to be dissasociated from what you consider "conservative".)
Last edited by SeattleUte; 09-09-2013 at 05:27 PM.
One thing I have learned in a long life: that all our science, measured against reality, is primitive and childlike -- and yet it is the most precious thing we have.
--Albert Einstein
The fact that life evolved out of nearly nothing, some 10 billion years after the universe evolved out of literally nothing, is a fact so staggering that I would be mad to attempt words to do it justice.
--Richard Dawkins
Be kind to all, for everyone you meet is fighting a great battle.
--Philo
"It'd be nice to please everyone but I thought it would be more interesting to have a point of view." -- Oscar Levant
I'm just using political science parlance, which is different from what you are using. "Bold" does not mean "liberal."
I thought about the FDR comparison, but FDR was a president who wanted a strong American role in the world. Perhaps that was because WWII forced him that direction, but he jumped into the role with alacrity and skill. (Whether his decisions at Yalta, etc., were right will be debated forever.) Obama so far has been a president whose actions are consistent with wanting a lesser American role in the world. I am not saying that as a criticism, even though I strongly dislike his foreign policy; I'm just trying to describe him.
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
--Yeats
“True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”
--John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell
One thing I have learned in a long life: that all our science, measured against reality, is primitive and childlike -- and yet it is the most precious thing we have.
--Albert Einstein
The fact that life evolved out of nearly nothing, some 10 billion years after the universe evolved out of literally nothing, is a fact so staggering that I would be mad to attempt words to do it justice.
--Richard Dawkins
Be kind to all, for everyone you meet is fighting a great battle.
--Philo
Many on the far left are upset at him for one thing or another. I know one in particular who insists the Obama has governed as a centrist, much to his dismay.
I don't know how liberal he is, I just see him as largely ineffective -- probably the most ineffective president since Buchanan.
"It'd be nice to please everyone but I thought it would be more interesting to have a point of view." -- Oscar Levant
"Progressive" is a term liberals have started suing to avoid the negative connotation of the term "liberal." It's pretty nifty: A progressive is in favor of progress, which suggests their opponents are opposed to progress. It also moves the discussion away from the idea of governing principles or core beliefs. After all, who can disagree with progress? It's a word like "fairness," or "compassion," etc.
Again, don't get angry or indignant, I am just looking at this as a pretty impressive use of rhetoric, an area in which conservatives have been performing horribly for decades now. Romney, for example, was really bad at articulating such core beliefs.
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
--Yeats
“True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”
--John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell
Unless he changed course somehow and adopted McCain's plan* (which I liked), I suspect the Act would be similar in very many ways to the plan we have now. And after spending the better part of a year berating McCain's plan he would have looked wishy washy to suddenly accept it.
*all hospitals must accept all insurance plans without market interference from the various states, and the insurance buyer rather than the employer gets to keep the tax deduction/credit. An insurance exchange would be established to offer cheaper insurance options to those who couldn't otherwise afford it.
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
--Yeats
“True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”
--John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
--Yeats
“True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”
--John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell