Here we go
Here we go
no temples announced this morning
"What is said is not as important as what I hear and what I feel." -- Elder Hales
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
--Yeats
“True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”
--John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell
for some reason Dieter F seems like the most interesting man in church leadership.
Been looking forward to the President Uchtdorf talk. He begins as usual with a great story.
His discussion of why people leave the church is very important and will be quoted repeatedly in the future. The acknowledgment that sometimes imperfect people in the church make mistakes is terrific. We are watching a landmark moment right now. I don't think I've ever heard anything like this in my life in General Conference.
"In spite of this the eternal truth of the gospel...is not tarnished, diminished or destroyed."
"My dear friends, there is still a place for you here."
Nurture "the seed of faith in the sometimes sandy soil of doubt."
"Doubt your doubts before you doubt your faith."
"If you could see into our hearts you would see that you fit in better then you suppose."
This is one talk that left me choked up. Maybe because I know and love so many people who have left. I hope all of them watch or read this talk.
Last edited by LA Ute; 10-05-2013 at 11:51 PM.
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
--Yeats
“True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”
--John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell
Uchtdorf's talk was absolutely amazing. Gonna commit that one to memory. Very moving, comprehensive and understanding.
"But I tried didn't I? ... at least I did that."
I have to agree.Originally Posted by arizonaute
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
--Yeats
“True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”
--John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
--Yeats
“True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”
--John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell
Gift Nielson's talk was great. That guy has some energy.
Sent from my LG-E970 using Tapatalk 2
“It only ends once. Anything that happens before that is just progress.”
Well, because he thought it was good sport. Because some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.
Heartfelt and personal. Very wise counsel about the mental infirmities that we or our loved ones suffer from. That's going into the memory bank too.
Last edited by LA Ute; 10-05-2013 at 04:52 PM.
"But I tried didn't I? ... at least I did that."
I actually believe that Uchtdorf speaks for God. The others, my heart in the highlands on any given Sunday about them, but Uchtdorf.......the Force is strong with that one.
"This culture doesn't sell modesty. It sells "I am more modest than you" modesty." -- Two Utes
priesthood DF Uchtdorf went yard again.
The guy's amazing.
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
--Yeats
“True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”
--John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell
We enjoyed Uchtdorf's talk. We are hopeful that there will be a place for reformed Mormons like us one day. We believe in god and try to be good people. We love our heritage and the faith of our fathers. We support the church around the world.
But there is no place for us right now within Mormonism's current tent. I wish there were and we hope this will change.
I sincerely hope they will find a way to let Uchtdorf skip to the top spot after Monson passes away. DU brings nothing but love and acceptance, and leaves the judgemental attitudes in the dustbin where they belong. He would hopefully lead the church of our heritage to a more inclusive, Big Tent mormonism, where we can all have a home.
The LDS church is desperately in need of a strong voice from outside of the Jello Belt. Uchtdorf is the medicine they need, while I fear Bednar is just a younger version of Packer the aggressively closed-minded Grizzly Bear.
(FWIW, the way the numbers work out we can expect to see Bednar in the top spot for over 20 years)
Last edited by NorthwestUteFan; 10-06-2013 at 10:50 AM.
What an amazing tribute to his wife and his service as an Apostle
"But I tried didn't I? ... at least I did that."
I remember when watching General Conference didn't piss me off. Oaks, Cook, and Andersen have destroyed any goodwill that Uchtdorf built yesterday.
"This culture doesn't sell modesty. It sells "I am more modest than you" modesty." -- Two Utes
Sorry, wuap.
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
--Yeats
“True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”
--John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell
"To all those who struggle with supporting your church leaders, we have a message for you..."
Last edited by NorthwestUteFan; 10-06-2013 at 08:31 PM.
Very contradictory conference with the messages from oaks et al. as opposed to uchtdorf. I can't wait to hear how they spin it.
I personally got guidance, encouragement and inspiration I specifically needed from the talks by Presidents Uchtdorf (both of them) and Eyring (again, both talks), Elders Suarez (sp?), Hales, and Holland. President Monson's talk this morning hit me as hard as any talk by a church president ever has. ("I will not fail thee nor forsake thee.") I didn't hear Sunday afternoon. I think the Oaks and Uchtdorf talks are easily reconcilable. People may be reading too much into both talks.
This is just me, but when I approach Conference as a source of inspiration it really works for me. When I am instead listening for shifts in policy and trying to decide whether I agree with a speaker's statements on such matters, not so much. That would probably be true of any church, it seems to me.
Last edited by LA Ute; 10-06-2013 at 10:53 PM.
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
--Yeats
“True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”
--John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell
Cook said something like, "I applaud the contributions of women in every field, BUT if you don't behave like my grandma did, then a pox upon you and your kin to the -nth generation"
Oaks drops sociology on us to defend the church's position on marriage while failing to note that the data he's giving is precisely because WOMEN now have the ability to make decisions for how they want to live outside the agriculture-society patriarchy to which the Brethren cling so tenaciously.
Then comes Elder Andersen with "Women don't need the priesthood because I God said so." The analogy of men opening the drapes to let the light in was especially patronizing because it just reinforces the circular logic he was throwing down throughout the entire talk. The church also completely misuses the word gender. Their insistence on using it to mean "sex" is incorrect, and wrong, because even in homosexual relationships, there can be differing genders among equal phenotypes. I nailed it here: https://www.facebook.com/notes/mac-w...51586882586095
Elder Oaks said that a "moral coward" doesn't act when he knows he should. Right back at you, Dallin.
I'm really struggling with calling myself LDS at this point. Mormon? Sure. But, LDS? I just don't know any more.
"This culture doesn't sell modesty. It sells "I am more modest than you" modesty." -- Two Utes
I'll listen to the talks, wuap.
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
--Yeats
“True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”
--John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell
When you do, think about this:
I think it's far healthier to remove ourselves from the ideologies of both sides (in as much as that's possible) and view the LDS ideological view of homosexuals and homosexual sex as an attempt to patch up the inconsistency of our own ideological system. What does that mean? We have a conundrum. If we have agency, if we are children of our Heavenly Father--created in his image, and if we are created with temptations that make us feel flawed for life, how then can a just God expect us to obey all of the commandments and yet find happiness in this life? How does our ideology address the children born with ambiguous genitalia, with both sets of genitalia, and those who have ovaries inside but a penis and no vagina? We're reminded of Packer's famous now-redacted conference question of "Why would a loving God make them that way?" The consequences of this hole in our ideology, this unanswerable question in the face of the prophetic declaration that "gender is eternal," demonstrate an inconsistency, and therefore, we're left with an ideology that doesn't ultimately provide a logical answer to the knowledge that it lacks--and the consequences that stem from that absence of knowledge.
"This culture doesn't sell modesty. It sells "I am more modest than you" modesty." -- Two Utes
I thought of a DU's talk when I read Ross Douthot's column about Pope Francis yesterday. There may be a parallel between the LDS church and NY Jews. Everybody is either very orthodox or become inactive altogether; the center has trouble holding (admittedly, a Mormon center is still very right of mainstream center). I thought D.U., like Pop Francis, is trying to hold or grow the center, which he can do because he is not American and does not carry all the political baggage.
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/06/op...t&emc=rss&_r=0
We're seeing a lot about Pope Francis and Pres. Uchtdorf. I think there is more of a continuum in LDS belief, and where one sits on the continuum depends both on cultural issues (drinking caffeinated drinks, for example) and doctrinal issues (women and the priesthood, same-sex marriage, etc.). Even among Orthodox Jews there are gradients -- e.g., some people are more kosher than others. There are plenty of Mormons who are not strictly orthodox but still participate actively in the church.
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
--Yeats
“True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”
--John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell
Hang in there. It is a great institution but you just have to define your own...personal...Mormonism.
Yeah, but at some point reconciling the brand with the branding on my person is difficult.
"This culture doesn't sell modesty. It sells "I am more modest than you" modesty." -- Two Utes
This was pretty funny, sancho. Now I've got to go see what Elder Scott has said about forgiveness for taking PEDs.
But I think Packer is Ty Cobb. Oaks is starting to look like Mantle - stumbling around at the tail end of his career. He has a great legacy, but I wonder if he'll damage it with some of his recent strong remarks.
I wonder if, to some extent, there is a connection to be drawn between both being cultural and geographic outsiders to an entrenched ecclesiastic culture. I strongly suspect that Uchtdorf is more liberal, socially minded than others in the Q12 because of his upbringing. I wonder to what extent the more hardline stances from his quorum-mates bother him.
This is good advice, Viking. Good luck, wuap. Oaks has inspired me to avoid moral cowardice, although he would probably disagree with the morals I plan to defend more outspokenly.
σοφῷ ἀνδρὶ Ἑλλὰς πάντα.
-- Flavius Philostratus, Life of Apollonius 1.35.2.
If someone misrepresents what another person says, am I supposed to take that someone seriously?
If you disagree, fine. If you think what they said was too hardline for your taste, okay. But misprepresenation serves no one.
Last edited by USS Utah; 10-08-2013 at 12:52 AM.
"It'd be nice to please everyone but I thought it would be more interesting to have a point of view." -- Oscar Levant
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote