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Thread: The Kyle Whittingham Thread

  1. #961
    Kyle is a person who has a really hard job that he does well.


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    One thing I have learned in a long life: that all our science, measured against reality, is primitive and childlike -- and yet it is the most precious thing we have.

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  2. #962
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SeattleUte View Post
    Kyle is a person who has a really hard job that he does well.
    According to C. Hill KW, along with Majerus and Krystkowiak, are the most intelligent coaches he's had at the U. They all are or were really bright people.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  3. #963
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    According to C. Hill KW, along with Majerus and Krystkowiak, are the most intelligent coaches he's had at the U. They all are or were really bright people.
    Kyle Whittingham knows every little thing on every opponent he faces. The man is a genius.

  4. #964
    So here's a question...

    Mike Macintyre was named Pac 12 coach of the year today. No real surprise right?

    If Kyle had put together the Season that Mike did...does he get the nod?
    “It only ends once. Anything that happens before that is just progress.”

    Well, because he thought it was good sport. Because some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.

  5. #965
    Quote Originally Posted by DrumNFeather View Post
    So here's a question...

    Mike Macintyre was named Pac 12 coach of the year today. No real surprise right?

    If Kyle had put together the Season that Mike did...does he get the nod?
    Not coming from where we did last season. Worst to first is what did it for McIntyre. If we did what Colorado did this season, Petersen gets COY, not Whittingham.
    “To me there is no dishonor in being wrong and learning. There is dishonor in willful ignorance and there is dishonor in disrespect.” James Hatch, former Navy Seal and current Yale student.

  6. #966
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Eight players drafted this time around, the best in the PAC-12. That's a nice resume item for Kyle and it should be persuasive to at least a few top recruits who might otherwise go elsewhere.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  7. #967
    Agree,
    but how do the Utes not win the conference with that much talent?

    hope Troy Taylor is the answer.

    With all that talent gone might be a 7-8 win season??

  8. #968
    Quote Originally Posted by Old Standing ute View Post
    With all that talent gone might be a 7-8 win season??
    A 7-8 win season would be pretty good, I think. New coach, new line, new system. Brutal schedule. Less than 7 wins certainly seems possible.

    I've heard the "with 8 draft picks, the Utes should have been better" thing a few times now online. There may be something to that, but it's a rather simple view. Utah did beat one of the best teams in the nation. We lost two very close games to teams that played in NY6 bowls. We also lost two games to bad teams.

    For years, Cal had a lousy team that put lots of players into the NFL. Georgia for years under Richt put a ton of guys into the NFL but couldn't do much better than 8-9 wins. I think Utah is closer to those Georgia teams than those Cal teams. The difference, of course, is that Utah is doing this with 3 star recruits, and Georgia was doing it with 5 star recruits.

  9. #969

    The Kyle Whittingham Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Old Standing ute View Post
    Agree,
    but how do the Utes not win the conference with that much talent?

    hope Troy Taylor is the answer.

    With all that talent gone might be a 7-8 win season??
    A bunch of 2 and 3 stars when recruited.

    The pipeline is full.



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    One thing I have learned in a long life: that all our science, measured against reality, is primitive and childlike -- and yet it is the most precious thing we have.

    --Albert Einstein

    The fact that life evolved out of nearly nothing, some 10 billion years after the universe evolved out of literally nothing, is a fact so staggering that I would be mad to attempt words to do it justice.

    --Richard Dawkins

    Be kind to all, for everyone you meet is fighting a great battle.

    --Philo

  10. #970
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    We have the talent. We're just not executing properly. Taylor will be the key to solving that problem.


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    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  11. #971
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    We have the talent. We're just not executing properly. Taylor will be the key to solving that problem.
    Maybe the draft is evidence of sufficient talent. I'm not sure many football people would believe we have the talent after comparing our roster to the rosters of UCLA, USC, Oregon, UW, and Stanford.

    There are 5 teams in the conference that recruit like national powers. On occasion, one of the other 7 teams will sneak in and win the conference. But it will be rare.

  12. #972
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    Maybe the draft is evidence of sufficient talent. I'm not sure many football people would believe we have the talent after comparing our roster to the rosters of UCLA, USC, Oregon, UW, and Stanford.

    There are 5 teams in the conference that recruit like national powers. On occasion, one of the other 7 teams will sneak in and win the conference. But it will be rare.
    Defeatist.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  13. #973
    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    Maybe the draft is evidence of sufficient talent. I'm not sure many football people would believe we have the talent after comparing our roster to the rosters of UCLA, USC, Oregon, UW, and Stanford.

    There are 5 teams in the conference that recruit like national powers. On occasion, one of the other 7 teams will sneak in and win the conference. But it will be rare.
    we have had insufficient talent at qb and wr. And oc. That makes all the difference. We may never have the opportunity again that we had this year. The stars were aligned.

    Miami had more players drafted than we did.
    Last edited by concerned; 04-30-2017 at 09:17 PM.

  14. #974
    Senior Member justaute's Avatar
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    Well, I don't think we had enough talent at skilled positions -- at least we haven't properly develop them. I'm hopeful Taylor and our rising reputation as a team (not necessarily on the offensive side) will change that.

  15. #975
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    The Kyle Whittingham Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by justaute View Post
    Well, I don't think we had enough talent at skilled positions -- at least we haven't properly develop them. I'm hopeful Taylor and our rising reputation as a team (not necessarily on the offensive side) will change that.
    This is a pretty good summary of where Utah football is at this point. It's not a bad place to be. There's hope.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  16. #976
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    Quote Originally Posted by concerned View Post
    we have had insufficient talent at qb and wr. And oc. That makes all the difference. We may never have the opportunity again that we had this year. The stars were aligned.

    Miami had more players drafted than we did.
    Miami had a first year coach in Mark Richt. Those players, last year under Al Golden, went 8-5.

    LSU had a ton of players drafted and also fired Les Miles.

    Kyle has it so easy at Utah. He still largely gets passes for fielding talented teams that underachieve.

  17. #977
    Quote Originally Posted by SoCalPat View Post
    Miami had a first year coach in Mark Richt. Those players, last year under Al Golden, went 8-5.

    LSU had a ton of players drafted and also fired Les Miles.

    Kyle has it so easy at Utah. He still largely gets passes for fielding talented teams that underachieve.
    That was my point. Having players drafted does not guarantee sucess.

  18. #978
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    Quote Originally Posted by concerned View Post
    That was my point. Having players drafted does not guarantee sucess.
    What's success? Winning a national championship? Those teams typically get multiple players drafted in the first round. I'm thinking especially of multi-year dynasties like Miami and Alabama. Ohio State and USC are also in that mold. Obviously, we're not at that level.

    At the same time, we've had better years in which fewer players were drafted. I think we've got enough of a track record at Utah where players drafted correlates nicely with W-L. This year, it clearly didn't. You're right in that it doesn't guarantee (overwhelming?) success -- witness this year. But if you would've said one year ago that we'd have 8 players drafted, but go 5-4 in the South, finish third despite beating USC and play in the Foster Farms Bowl, 100 percent of Utah fans would've either called BS on it or wouldn't have signed up for it.

  19. #979
    Quote Originally Posted by SoCalPat View Post
    What's success? Winning a national championship? Those teams typically get multiple players drafted in the first round. I'm thinking especially of multi-year dynasties like Miami and Alabama. Ohio State and USC are also in that mold. Obviously, we're not at that level.

    At the same time, we've had better years in which fewer players were drafted. I think we've got enough of a track record at Utah where players drafted correlates nicely with W-L. This year, it clearly didn't. You're right in that it doesn't guarantee (overwhelming?) success -- witness this year. But if you would've said one year ago that we'd have 8 players drafted, but go 5-4 in the South, finish third despite beating USC and play in the Foster Farms Bowl, 100 percent of Utah fans would've either called BS on it or wouldn't have signed up for it.

    What is your point? We are saying the same thing.

  20. #980
    Kyle has shown the ability to develop the players that come into the program, particularly on defense and in the trenches. Now that we are getting better talent at the skill positions, I would expect that to continue.
    “It only ends once. Anything that happens before that is just progress.”

    Well, because he thought it was good sport. Because some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.

  21. #981
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    Quote Originally Posted by concerned View Post
    What is your point? We are saying the same thing.
    My point merely expounded on what you said. It wasn't meant to rebuke you.

  22. #982
    Quote Originally Posted by SoCalPat View Post
    But if you would've said one year ago that we'd have 8 players drafted, but go 5-4 in the South, finish third despite beating USC and play in the Foster Farms Bowl, 100 percent of Utah fans would've either called BS on it or wouldn't have signed up for it.
    If you offer me a top 25 finish at the beginning of any season, I'm likely to take it. I still don't consider those a given. By composite recruiting rankings, we should have been finishing 10th for the past few seasons. (Our composite ranking are on the rise now, though.)

    The media knew we had a lot of NFL talent, and they still picked us to finish 3rd in the division. They know we have a lot of NFL talent in 2017, and they won't be picking us to win the division this season either.

    I feel like y'all are looking for a gray lining on a silver cloud. I can only see this past weekend as good news.

  23. #983
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    The Kyle Whittingham Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    If you offer me a top 25 finish at the beginning of any season, I'm likely to take it. I still don't consider those a given. By composite recruiting rankings, we should have been finishing 10th for the past few seasons. (Our composite ranking are on the rise now, though.)

    The media knew we had a lot of NFL talent, and they still picked us to finish 3rd in the division. They know we have a lot of NFL talent in 2017, and they won't be picking us to win the division this season either.

    I feel like y'all are looking for a gray lining on a silver cloud. I can only see this past weekend as good news.
    You can see this either as a glass half full or half empty. I think it has to be half-full, but we will see what Troy Taylor brings to the table. We will also see what Kyle does about the under-achieving and about the late-season collapses. There are grounds for cautious optimism.


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    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  24. #984
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    We will also see what Kyle does about the under-achieving
    How many times has Kyle finished below his predicted place in the south division? I'm not sure the "under-achieving" is a real thing.

  25. #985
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    The Kyle Whittingham Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    How many times has Kyle finished below his predicted place in the south division? I'm not sure the "under-achieving" is a real thing.
    I can't disagree. Still, I'm willing to hold out hope for another season or two. Mainly I don't want to draw SeattleUte out of his lair by criticizing Kyle's degree of success.

    Seriously, I really do think Kyle can get over the hump. He's a very smart guy.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  26. #986
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    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    How many times has Kyle finished below his predicted place in the south division? I'm not sure the "under-achieving" is a real thing.
    At least once that I can recall -- the league preseason poll had us 2nd in the South and we finished 5th.

    I would say we've been picked to finish between 3rd and 5th every year since. Certainly not first or last. Our finishes in the Pac-12 have been T-3, 5, 5, 5, T-1, 3. That's an average finish of 3.9. I would say our average preseason prediction is probably right at 4. The team with the second most players in the NFL shouldn't be a second-tier team in this league.

  27. #987
    This is an interesting piece out of Arizona addressing a decline in Arizona recruiting local kids and Whittingham having success with them.

    http://tucson.com/sports/greghansen/...028c34db2.html


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  28. #988
    Quote Originally Posted by SoCalPat View Post
    At least once that I can recall -- the league preseason poll had us 2nd in the South and we finished 5th.

    I would say we've been picked to finish between 3rd and 5th every year since. Certainly not first or last. Our finishes in the Pac-12 have been T-3, 5, 5, 5, T-1, 3. That's an average finish of 3.9. I would say our average preseason prediction is probably right at 4. The team with the second most players in the NFL shouldn't be a second-tier team in this league.
    Very true. I mean, let's just ignore the fact that our recruiting hasn't been up to par (until the last two years) and there is a thing called depth in the PAC-12. Even this last year, Joe Williams and JJ Dielman missed significant time due to injuries/issues.

    Kyle still needs depth and better recruiting. Even this fall, if Luafatasaga gets hurt, we may be in a world of hurt. Or Chase Hansen.

    Plus, even with all the NFL talent on the team, we have had significant holes in our talent. WR has had a lot of NFL talent, but not much else behind the 1 or 2 NFL guys. Our QB has been significantly bad. RB has been decimated by injuries.

    Oh, and ARod...and BJ...and Chow leaving after one year didn't help anything. Whitt bungled the OC job. I think Whitt thought that he could grind out the offense and win the PAC-12. He has discovered that isn't true after last year.

  29. #989

    The Kyle Whittingham Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by SoCalPat View Post
    At least once that I can recall -- the league preseason poll had us 2nd in the South and we finished 5th.

    I would say we've been picked to finish between 3rd and 5th every year since. Certainly not first or last. Our finishes in the Pac-12 have been T-3, 5, 5, 5, T-1, 3. That's an average finish of 3.9. I would say our average preseason prediction is probably right at 4. The team with the second most players in the NFL shouldn't be a second-tier team in this league.
    Nobody except maybe Utah and you believes that Whit should be recruiting at Oregon's or USC's or even Washington's level. But you consider the fact that Utah is no. 2 in the conference for NFL players is evidence of a problem with the coaching. Pretzel logic.
    Last edited by SeattleUte; 05-10-2017 at 09:09 PM.
    One thing I have learned in a long life: that all our science, measured against reality, is primitive and childlike -- and yet it is the most precious thing we have.

    --Albert Einstein

    The fact that life evolved out of nearly nothing, some 10 billion years after the universe evolved out of literally nothing, is a fact so staggering that I would be mad to attempt words to do it justice.

    --Richard Dawkins

    Be kind to all, for everyone you meet is fighting a great battle.

    --Philo

  30. #990
    Quote Originally Posted by SeattleUte View Post
    Nobody except maybe Utah and you believes that Whit should be recruiting at Oregon's or USC's or even Washington's level. But you consider the fact that Utah is no. 2 in the conference for NFL players is evidence of a problem with the coaching. Pretzel logic.
    When have I ever said that Whitt should be recruiting at Oregon or USC's level (although I did say that we should aspire to reach the level of Washington's success, but never said recruiting).

    What I've said about recruiting is two things: National Title isn't realistic. National title winners have top 10 classes. We don't.

    The second thing I harp on with recruiting is that we need to schedule down to increase wins, which increases visibility, which increases recruiting.

    I've never said we should recruit at USC's level. In fact, I've said we should never really expect to win the south, because USC is just too good.

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