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Thread: The college football playoff expansion Thread

  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    This is because the SEC has not played a soft schedule. The SEC might get rewarded for playing some of the tougher schedules in the country.
    BS: Here is a comparison of the OOC of SEC West and PAC South + Oregon (7 teams each). By scheduling OOC games against only 4 P5 schools, the SEC West has guaranteed themselves an additional 24 wins, meaning that most schools need only win 2 or 3 conference games to become bowl eligible. Four schools: Alabama, Miss. St., Ole Miss and Texas AM played no P5 schools. On the flip side, the PAC South has 14 games against non-P5, meaning they need to win at least 3 or 4 conference games to become bowl eligible. Only Arizona and CU did not play a P5 opponent and USC and UCLA will each play 2.



    SEC West: 4 of 28 against P5


    Alabama: West Va., Fla. Atl., So. Miss, W.Carolina
    Miss. St.: So. Miss., UAB, So. Ala., UT Martin
    Ole Miss: Boise St., La. Laf., Memphis, Presyterian
    Auburn: SJSU, K.State, La. Tech, Samford
    Texas AM: Lamar, Rice, SMU, UL Monroe
    LSU: Wisconsin, Sam Houston, UL Monroe, New Mexico St.
    Ark.: Nicholls St., Texas Tech, N. Illinois, UAB


    PAC South + Oregon: 7 of 21 against P5


    USC: Fresno, Boston College, Notre Dame
    UCLA: Virginia, Memphis, Texas
    ASU: Weber St., New Mexico, Notre Dame
    Arizona: UNLV, UTSA, Nevada
    Utah: Idaho St., Fresno, Michigan
    CU: CSU, Mass, Hawaii
    Oregon: So. Dakota, Mich. St., Wyoming

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by UTEopia View Post
    BS: Here is a comparison of the OOC of SEC West and PAC South + Oregon (7 teams each). By scheduling OOC games against only 4 P5 schools, the SEC West has guaranteed themselves an additional 24 wins, meaning that most schools need only win 2 or 3 conference games to become bowl eligible. Four schools: Alabama, Miss. St., Ole Miss and Texas AM played no P5 schools. On the flip side, the PAC South has 14 games against non-P5, meaning they need to win at least 3 or 4 conference games to become bowl eligible. Only Arizona and CU did not play a P5 opponent and USC and UCLA will each play 2.
    If we are only talking about OOC schedules, you are probably right. I was talking about SOS for the complete schedule, which I think should matter more than just OOC SOS.

    Computers currently rank SEC schedules pretty well, though there will be a bit of a drop after this weekend. The computers are not opinion based or biased towards any particular conference.

    Four schools: Alabama, Miss. St., Ole Miss and Texas AM played no P5 schools.
    Alabama played West Virginia.

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by utefan View Post
    My opinion is the SEC is over rated, has not played a really tough out of conference schedule, and will be exposed in the playoffs.
    If Alabama loses a playoff game, does that mean they were overrated? Does that mean their schedule was soft? Three teams will lose playoff games. When it happens, are those teams being exposed as frauds?

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    If Alabama loses a playoff game, does that mean they were overrated? Does that mean their schedule was soft? Three teams will lose playoff games. When it happens, are those teams being exposed as frauds?
    Well it certainly means they weren't the clear cut number 1. And if they aren't the clear cut number 1, then maybe the SEC teams weren't so tough after all. Which means their strength of schedule shouldn't have been rated so high just for playing each other. So then maybe we should not have basically guaranteed the SEC champion an auto bid.

    You're basically saying the SEC schedule is so great because they play each other. And you're saying we should just accept that as a fact, even if it means a Big 10 or Big 12, or even Pac 12 team does not get into the playoffs.

    I think that is absurd. We should give every P5 champion an auto bid, and have a few at large bids for teams that may suffer an injury and lose a game that they would win 9 out of 10 times.

    Let them settle it on the field. I know you keep saying the computers are not opinion based or biased, but there is certainly a flaw in there somewhere. There's no logical reason to say the SEC has played one of the toughest schedules when they've only played each other. They could prove that it was a really tough schedule or a really easy schedule after the playoffs, but we have no way to know for sure either way at this point. They haven't played any really good teams out of conference so all we can do is speculate on what would happen if they did.

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by utefan View Post
    Well it certainly means they weren't the clear cut number 1. And if they aren't the clear cut number 1, then maybe the SEC teams weren't so tough after all. Which means their strength of schedule shouldn't have been rated so high just for playing each other. So then maybe we should not have basically guaranteed the SEC champion an auto bid.

    You're basically saying the SEC schedule is so great because they play each other. And you're saying we should just accept that as a fact, even if it means a Big 10 or Big 12, or even Pac 12 team does not get into the playoffs.

    I think that is absurd. We should give every P5 champion an auto bid, and have a few at large bids for teams that may suffer an injury and lose a game that they would win 9 out of 10 times.

    Let them settle it on the field. I know you keep saying the computers are not opinion based or biased, but there is certainly a flaw in there somewhere. There's no logical reason to say the SEC has played one of the toughest schedules when they've only played each other. They could prove that it was a really tough schedule or a really easy schedule after the playoffs, but we have no way to know for sure either way at this point. They haven't played any really good teams out of conference so all we can do is speculate on what would happen if they did.
    Computer rankings don't have the SEC so high for playing each other, they have the SEC high because of OOC success (so that playing each other then means something).

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Scratch View Post
    Computer rankings don't have the SEC so high for playing each other, they have the SEC high because of OOC success (so that playing each other then means something).
    Yes. It's a pretty limited sample in football, but the SEC beat KState, Wisconsin, and West Virginia. (and pretty much everyone else they played except for Indiana). The computer conference pecking order each year is established with just a handful of cross-conference games.

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    Yes. It's a pretty limited sample in football, but the SEC beat KState, Wisconsin, and West Virginia. (and pretty much everyone else they played except for Indiana). The computer conference pecking order each year is established with just a handful of cross-conference games.
    That doesn't jump out to me as being clear cut number 1. Every conference can point to a couple of big out of conference wins.

    So we're saying the SEC is the best conference because of a couple of big out of conference wins. Therefore, the SEC teams playing each other have the toughest schedule, even though most of them, including the so called clear cut number 1, don't have any big out of conference wins.

    That's a flawed system. I say we just let them settle it on the field and remove all the speculation.

  8. #68
    Whether we stay at four, or expand to six or eight, what I want to see from our playoff is to see the field made up of the broadest sample possible. If we're at four, I don't think any school is getting "robbed" if the one team that finished ahead of them in their own conference represents their conference. No power conference should get double representation at the cost of TWO power conferences getting NO representation.

    To me, the four-team playoff is flawed from the outset knowing that a power conference champion is always going to be left out of it. Because of that, there's a whole swath of the country, a whole group of 10-14 teams that played a near round robin who won't get to see how the best of their bunch hangs with the best from other regions. If you fill half the field with teams from one conference, that doubles the amount of P5 teams having ZERO representation in the playoff. That's lame. With only four spots, I don't think it's too much to ask that the four teams represent the best of their conferences. Will some dang good teams be left out? Yes. I can live with that.

  9. #69
    I can understand why they started the playoff at 4 - don't demolish the bowl system, insane travel logistics for multiple large groups of people.

    But it simply has to be expanded, and the insanity of having 3+ huge travel games for the top two teams is addressed by having the first round hosted by the top four seeds.

    Playoff Teams:
    - P5 champ auto bids
    - 2-3 at large P5 teams
    - 1 (maybe) non-P5 team, if you have an undefeated G5 school, or BYU (cough)

    I appreciate the PAC championship game at a neutral site, but realistically, this game may have be scheduled at the conference's top seed (which introduces problems, I know, but the logistics of a neutral site CCG and more than one round of neutral site playoffs gets out of hand.)

    The logistics in tens of thousands of people traveling to 2+ "road" games on short notice, in successive weeks, just isn't going to work, except the top 2 teams.

    Total Games for top teams
    12 game season
    CCG at high seed

    First round at Top 4 seeds - 8 teams
    2nd round at major bowl, rotated to be in the playoff - 4 teams
    Championship at major venue - 2 teams

    - 16 games total for two teams in the nation. This is pushing it, but is not out of the realm of possibility. Teams have played 15 games multiple times.
    - Four teams play 15 games.
    - 8-13 teams play 14 games (CCGs + bowl games for the losers)
    - 50+ teams play 13 games - seasons + bowl games

    If the G5 + BYU wanted to put together their own playoff for an auto-bid, more along the lines of the home-field playoff in FCS, let 'em.
    Last edited by Ma'ake; 11-22-2014 at 09:20 AM.

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by FountainOfUte View Post
    To me, the four-team playoff is flawed from the outset knowing that a power conference champion is always going to be left out of it.
    All you have to do is have other conferences raid four teams from the Big-12 and they are at 6 teams and the P5 becomes the P4. Solved

  11. #71
    The race for the 4th playoff spot-

    Ohio State- 12-1 with a loss to unranked Va Tech. Ended season with B1G championship by shutting/wiping out #13 Wisconsin 59-0. Currently #5. SOR prior to today- 54

    TCU- 12-1 with a loss to #6 Baylor. Ended season loosing tie breaker for the Big-12 championship,with a 53-3 win over unranked 2-10 Iowa St. currently ranked #3. SOR prior to today- 45

    Baylor- 12-1 with a loss to unranked WVU. Ended season winning the Big-12 championship through tie-breaker, with an 11 point win over #9 Kansas St. Currently ranked #6. SOR prior to today- 64

    I personaly think Ohio St. jumps into the #4 spot, and FSU moves to #3. OSU's loss is the worst of the three, but regency bias is strong, and their win today is the most impressive.

    If if that happens, does the Big-12 consider expansion for a championship game more seriously? The whole "one true champion" concept is proven false in the first season of playoffs.

    What scenario causes the most amount of uproar and call for playoff expansion?
    Last edited by chrisrenrut; 12-06-2014 at 10:34 PM.
    “To me there is no dishonor in being wrong and learning. There is dishonor in willful ignorance and there is dishonor in disrespect.” James Hatch, former Navy Seal and current Yale student.

  12. #72
    FSU is probably worse than all three.

    I hate giving teams a mulligan on a bad loss. I vote tcu.

    If tcu and Baylor are left out, nobody will care all that much. If osu is left out, there will be enough uproar to get an 8 team playoff in place.

    If it were Texas and Oklahoma tied in the big 12, osu would have no chance. Name still matters in college football.

    If I were the committee, I would say that the four teams (including FSU) are too close to call, and I would draw straws on national tv.

  13. #73
    Playoff selection criteria:

    The bolded part is why I feel Ohio State may be in, and Baylor/TCU are out. Apparently, the Big-12 has said they would not submit a champion to the committee, or possibly co-champions.

    http://www.collegefootballplayoff.co...ittee-protocol

    Selection Process:

    Establish a committee that will be instructed to place an emphasis on winning conference championships, strength of schedule and head-to-head competition when comparing teams with similar records and pedigree (treat final determination like a tie-breaker; apply specific guidelines).
    The criteria to be provided to the selection committee must be aligned with the ideals of the commissioners, Presidents, athletic directors and coaches to honor regular season success while at the same time providing enough flexibility and discretion to select a non-champion or independent under circumstances where that particular non-champion or independent is unequivocally one of the four best teams in the country.
    When circumstances at the margins indicate that teams are comparable, then the following criteria must be considered:

    • Championships won
    • Strength of schedule
    • Head-to-head competition (if it occurred)
    • Comparative outcomes of common opponents (without incenting margin of victory)
    Last edited by chrisrenrut; 12-06-2014 at 11:07 PM.
    “To me there is no dishonor in being wrong and learning. There is dishonor in willful ignorance and there is dishonor in disrespect.” James Hatch, former Navy Seal and current Yale student.

  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by chrisrenrut View Post
    Playoff selection criteria:

    The bolded part is why I feel Ohio State may be in, and Baylor/TCU are out. Apparently, the Big-12 has said they would not submit a champion to the committee, or possibly co-champions.

    http://www.collegefootballplayoff.co...ittee-protocol

    Selection Process:

    Establish a committee that will be instructed to place an emphasis on winning conference championships, strength of schedule and head-to-head competition when comparing teams with similar records and pedigree (treat final determination like a tie-breaker; apply specific guidelines).
    The criteria to be provided to the selection committee must be aligned with the ideals of the commissioners, Presidents, athletic directors and coaches to honor regular season success while at the same time providing enough flexibility and discretion to select a non-champion or independent under circumstances where that particular non-champion or independent is unequivocally one of the four best teams in the country.
    When circumstances at the margins indicate that teams are comparable, then the following criteria must be considered:

    • Championships won
    • Strength of schedule
    • Head-to-head competition (if it occurred)
    • Comparative outcomes of common opponents (without incenting margin of victory)
    Except TCU is a champion.

  15. #75
    From what I have read, the Big12 is submitting co-champions to the committee. Art Briles was pretty pissed about it. According to the Big 12 bylaws, the champion is determined by tie breaker first with head-to-head results. So technically, Baylor is the Big 12 champion.
    “To me there is no dishonor in being wrong and learning. There is dishonor in willful ignorance and there is dishonor in disrespect.” James Hatch, former Navy Seal and current Yale student.

  16. #76
    TCU has a head to head loss against Baylor. I think that should eliminate them.

    They should not be considered a champion of their conference when another team in their conference has the same record as them and beat them head to head.

    They should also not be selected to the playoffs ahead of a team in their own conference that has an identical record to them and beat them in their only head to head meeting.

    Ohio State versus Oregon in the Rose Bowl. Book it.

  17. #77
    Malleus Cougarorum Solon's Avatar
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    To me, TCU, OHio State, & Baylor were all about the same.
    i think the committee was going to cause a storm no matter what. Neither the Big-12 nor the Big-10 was all that good this year. I like the matchups.
    σοφῷ ἀνδρὶ Ἑλλὰς πάντα.
    -- Flavius Philostratus, Life of Apollonius 1.35.2.

  18. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by Solon View Post
    To me, TCU, OHio State, & Baylor were all about the same.
    i think the committee was going to cause a storm no matter what. Neither the Big-12 nor the Big-10 was all that good this year. I like the matchups.
    No one who follows college football should be surprised that they found a way to squeeze out two small programs to make room for an Ohio state.

    There is even less of a surprise when you know that Barry Alvarez and Tom Osborne are the two ex coaches on the committee.

    One last non surprise - Urban Meyer absolutely wrecked his opponent when style points mattered.

  19. #79
    I understand the arguments and don't disagree with putting Ohio State in over TCU and Baylor.

    What doesn't make sense to me is how Florida State rose from the number for to the number three spot.

    TCU was in ahead of them last week, now TCU drops out because of their "resume". After struggling against Georgia Tech, why move them up to three? Is it simply because you can't argue that Ohio State deserved the three?

  20. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeUte View Post
    I understand the arguments and don't disagree with putting Ohio State in over TCU and Baylor.
    It really is a three way tie. But all the old ugly biases of college football are apparent once again:

    - Would OSU be in with a normal win over Wisconsin? No. It was the style points that made it happen.

    - Would FSU be in with their resume if their name was North Carolina State? No, it was their brand that carried them in.

    - Would TCU be out if their name was Texas? Not a chance.

    - Would people have been as forgiving of a loss to VaTech if it were someone other than OSU with the loss? No. Remember Oklahoma State vs Iowa State?

    - Late games still count for more than early games. OSU had exactly one game all year where they looked scary. It happened to occur yesterday, and that's all that matters. They also had multiple games where they looked pretty ordinary, but those all game in Sept and Oct. Out of sight, out of mind.

  21. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    It really is a three way tie. But all the old ugly biases of college football are apparent once again:

    - Would OSU be in with a normal win over Wisconsin? No. It was the style points that made it happen.

    - Would FSU be in with their resume if their name was North Carolina State? No, it was their brand that carried them in.

    - Would TCU be out if their name was Texas? Not a chance.

    - Would people have been as forgiving of a loss to VaTech if it were someone other than OSU with the loss? No. Remember Oklahoma State vs Iowa State?

    - Late games still count for more than early games. OSU had exactly one game all year where they looked scary. It happened to occur yesterday, and that's all that matters. They also had multiple games where they looked pretty ordinary, but those all game in Sept and Oct. Out of sight, out of mind.
    Very well said

  22. #82
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    The committee totally got it right with Ohio State. Outright conference champions, totally smashed a top 15 team to win conference in epic fashion. Much tougher non-conference schedule. Down to third string QB. Not really up for debate.

    What was the difference between TCU last week and TCU this week? They became a co-champion instead of an outright champion, and the committee finally brought HTH into the equation, which was their right. Ditto for Baylor. They cannibalized each other and left the door ajar for Ohio State. Case closed.

  23. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by SoCalPat View Post

    What was the difference between TCU last week and TCU this week? They became a co-champion instead of an outright champion, and the committee finally brought HTH into the equation, which was their right. Ditto for Baylor. They cannibalized each other and left the door ajar for Ohio State. Case closed.
    By beating Kansas State, Baylor made its victory over TCU the tiebreaker in its ranking over TCU. Not much consolation however.

  24. #84
    Malleus Cougarorum Solon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SoCalPat View Post
    The committee totally got it right with Ohio State. Outright conference champions, totally smashed a top 15 team to win conference in epic fashion. Much tougher non-conference schedule. Down to third string QB. Not really up for debate.

    What was the difference between TCU last week and TCU this week? They became a co-champion instead of an outright champion, and the committee finally brought HTH into the equation, which was their right. Ditto for Baylor. They cannibalized each other and left the door ajar for Ohio State. Case closed.
    So, who's the best of the four?
    i think Oregon can score on anyone. OSU is the weakest, if only because of the QB situation.
    FSU looked pretty fast last night. Alabama is a more deliberate monster.
    all of these teams will give up points.
    σοφῷ ἀνδρὶ Ἑλλὰς πάντα.
    -- Flavius Philostratus, Life of Apollonius 1.35.2.

  25. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by Solon View Post
    So, who's the best of the four?
    i think Oregon can score on anyone. OSU is the weakest, if only because of the QB situation.
    FSU looked pretty fast last night. Alabama is a more deliberate monster.
    all of these teams will give up points.
    Vegas has both Oregon and Bama as big favorites (-8) in their first round games. FSU would have been +8 underdogs to any of the other teams or TCU/Baylor.

  26. #86
    I am against an 8 team playoff. I would prefer a 6 team playoff with the conference champion from each of the Big5 and the highest rated conference champion from the other 5. A committee would seed the teams 1-6. Teams 1 and 2 would get byes. Teams 3 and 4 would host teams 5 and 6. I think going to 8 and having at-large teams would result in the same type of angst and problems that the 4 team playoff generates. It would make every conference championship game the first round of the playoffs.

  27. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by UTEopia View Post
    I am against an 8 team playoff. I would prefer a 6 team playoff with the conference champion from each of the Big5 and the highest rated conference champion from the other 5. A committee would seed the teams 1-6. Teams 1 and 2 would get byes. Teams 3 and 4 would host teams 5 and 6. I think going to 8 and having at-large teams would result in the same type of angst and problems that the 4 team playoff generates. It would make every conference championship game the first round of the playoffs.
    How would the conference championship game become the first round of the playoffs when there are 3 at large bids?

  28. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by utefan View Post
    How would the conference championship game become the first round of the playoffs when there are 3 at large bids?
    See the first post in this thread.

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    "Be a philosopher. A man can compromise to gain a point. It has become apparent that a man can, within limits, follow his inclinations within the arms of the Church if he does so discreetly." - The Walking Drum

    "And here’s what life comes down to—not how many years you live, but how many of those years are filled with bullshit that doesn’t amount to anything to satisfy the requirements of some dickhead you’ll never get the pleasure of punching in the face." – Adam Carolla

  29. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by Mormon Red Death View Post
    See the first post in this thread.

    Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk 2
    So without going back and reading that first post, are you suggesting that the teams who lose a conference championship game would never be allowed to get an at large bid?

    I don't think that's realistic. If there are at large bids going to teams that did not win their conference, then the conference runner up would presumably be the most qualified in a lot of cases.

    It just doesn't make a lot of sense to me that 3 at large bids would go to teams who finished in 3rd place in their conferences, while passing up the teams that finished in 2nd place. It would make sense to do that in some instances, but more of an exception than a rule.

  30. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by Mormon Red Death View Post
    This thread is for all news and rumors surrounding college football playoff expansion.

    So as I was driving this afternoon and I happened on Jack Arute and Rick Neuheisel (they have a radio show on sirius). Arute predicted that by the third 4-team playoff championship game we will have press conference to move it 8 teams. Hallelujah. IMO the best way to do that is the following:

    1. Conference Champs from the B1G, PAC12, ACC and SEC get AutoBids (
    2. Big12 plays the highest ranked Non p5 team (or ND) for an autobid. Higher BCS ranked team gets home field advantage.
    3. 6 Highest BCS ranked teams that are not in Conf Champ game play for 3 at large spots. Home teams are the ones with highest rankings (1vs6,2v5,3v4) (losers still go to bowl games)
    4. Next weekend teams are seeded by BCS rank and 1 plays 8, 2 v 7 etc.. Higher seed (Losers still go to bowl games)
    5. Christmas Day Semifinal is played
    6. New Years Day Final is played

    - This solves a lot of problems
    A. Every Team would play the same amount of games
    B. Instead of 7 games to sell media rights to they would have 10 games (the 11th game Media rights (Big12vNonP5) could be split with the home team getting 75% of the tv revenue).
    C. Half of the playoff revenue is split between all DIV1 teams. The other half uses the Unit system they use for the NCAA bball tourney to divide out $
    D. Bowls still happen Even if you are elite 8 you get one more game.
    The first post in the thread


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    "And here’s what life comes down to—not how many years you live, but how many of those years are filled with bullshit that doesn’t amount to anything to satisfy the requirements of some dickhead you’ll never get the pleasure of punching in the face." – Adam Carolla

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