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Thread: Red Rocks 2015

  1. #1
    Administrator U-Ute's Avatar
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    Red Rocks 2015

    We went to the UCLA meet friday night, and they looked pretty awesome. The freshmen really stepped up and are producing good scores.

    This team looks like they have a shot to go all the way.

  2. #2
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Kinda cool:

    Pac-12 moves gymnastics championship to University of Utah

    Looks like the reason was mainly a scheduling conflict but it's nice to be the default back-up choice, and the article says some nice things about the atmosphere for gymnastics at the Huntsman.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  3. #3
    It's awesome that they're bringing in 14-15 thousand people to the Huntsman Center and their average GPA is over 3.7. Great athletes. Great students. They're doing the U proud!

  4. #4
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    I find it somewhat comforting that the Red Rocks and the Running Utes are carrying the banner for us right now. It just seems right somehow.

    That being said, the future sure looks bright for the Red Rocks. The youngsters are really putting up big numbers.

  5. #5

  6. #6
    Gymnasts won the 2015 Pac12 title last night. Unfortunately they lost senior co-captain and 2015 Pac12 vault champion to an injury during her floor routine.

    She ruptured her Achilles' tendon and broke the metatarsals on her opposite foot when she landed. She's having surgery on both legs in the morning and will be unable to walk for 6-8 weeks.

  7. #7
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    Greg Marsden retires.

    http://www.utahutes.com/sports/w-gym...042015aab.html

    40 years. That seems impossible in this day and age.

  8. #8
    Utes hire Meredith Paulicivic as the assistant coach for gymnastics.

    Fans will remember her as All-American Meredith King from the early 90's

    She was an assistant and head club coach for 18 years prior to taking an assistant job at Arizona in 2014.

    http://www.utahutes.com/sports/w-gym...042215aaa.html


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  9. #9
    This thread appears to be a year old, but what the heck. We got season tickets to take our daughter this year. A few questions for Diehard or anyone else from someone whose only knowledge of gymnastics is Olga Korbut in the Olympics.

    1. What is the strategy, if any, for ordering your gymnasts on a particular event? Do you put your strongest last, and your next strongest 1st? Hide your weakest second and third?

    2, What flexibility do you have in using different gymnasts for different events? Can you use 6 for vault and a completely different 6 for bars? Are there restrictions on how many you can use during a meet?

    3. Do routines all have the same elements, or do some gymnasts do harder elements than others (like a triple somersault instead of a double). is there a degree of difficulty metric in college gymnastics scoring?

    4. Are some events more difficult to score well than others. It appears that teams generally get lower scores on beam than floor exercise, for example. Are certain events considered to lend themselves to high scores more than others? If your last routine is beam and your opponent's is floor, do you basically know you are likely going to lose if you don't have a fairly good lead going into the last rotation?

    5. Is there a strategy for ordering the events or rotations? Is is standard in a dual meet that vault is paired with bars first and beam with floor second? Do teams get to pick the order (like choosing whether to kick off or receive in football)? Does the home team want floor to be its last rotation for strategic reasons? Does either the visiting team or the home team have a say in the rotation order, or is it pretty standard from meet to meet.

    Just curious. Thanks in advance.
    Last edited by concerned; 01-23-2016 at 09:06 PM.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by concerned View Post
    This thread appears to be a year old, but what the heck. We got season tickets to take our daughter this year. A few questions for Diehard or anyone else from someone whose only knowledge of gymnastics is Olga Korbut in the Olympics.



    1. What is the strategy, if any, for ordering your gymnasts on a particular event? Do you put your strongest last, and your next strongest 1st? Hide your weakest second and third?

    2, What flexibility do you have in using different gymnasts for different events? Can you use 6 for vault and a completely different 6 for bars? Are there restrictions on how many you can use during a meet?

    3. Do routines all have the same elements, or do some gymnasts do harder elements than others (like a triple somersault instead of a double). is there a degree of difficulty metric in college gymnastics scoring?

    4. Are some events more difficult to score well than others. It appears that teams generally get lower scores on beam than floor exercise, for example. Are certain events considered to lend themselves to high scores more than others? If your last routine is beam and your opponent's is floor, do you basically know you are likely going to lose if you don't have a fairly good lead going into the last rotation?

    5. Is there a strategy for ordering the events or rotations? Is is standard in a dual meet that vault is paired with bars first and beam with floor second? Do teams get to pick the order (like choosing whether to kick off or receive in football)? Does the home team want floor to be its last rotation for strategic reasons? Does either the visiting team or the home team have a say in the rotation order, or is it pretty standard from meet to meet.

    Just curious. Thanks in advance.
    I'll just go by number since trying to go under yours on a phone is tough.

    1) You usually try and order from weakest to strongest in each event. You want your best gymnasts finishing as the scoring tends to creep up. Occasionally you'll "hide" someone at the end who is struggling or who is trying a new routine.

    2) There's no limits on who can compete or any other restrictions on how you make up your lineup.

    3) Each gymnast does different routines. Some will do more difficulty than others. Each element is assigned a difficulty value. To get to a 10.0 start value there are certain required elements. Not all gymnasts do 10.0 (most of your top 20 teams do, lower schools may not). For instance a Triple Twist or Full-In on floor are 'E' elements. A double pike or double tuck are 'D'. E is the hardest. A is the easiest.

    4) Beam is the hardest event. Vault was the easiest although they devalued the Yurchenko Full this year so scores are lower there. I would say bars and floor are about equal in difficulty. Road teams in a dual meet format always finish on beam. If your trailing on the road in the last rotation you're not going to win very often.

    5) Dual meets always have the home team with "Olympic" rotation which is vault, bars, beam then floor. That's the most desirable rotation and the home team will always have that. In the post season the rotation is a random draw.




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  11. #11
    Very helpful. Thanks. Do you know if there is anyplace 8 could get more info on the standard degree of difficulty for different elements as you describe and which ones the U gymnasts do in their routines. Are they published on a scorecard before the meet or anything like that. Thanks very much.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by concerned View Post
    Very helpful. Thanks. Do you know if there is anyplace 8 could get more info on the standard degree of difficulty for different elements as you describe and which ones the U gymnasts do in their routines. Are they published on a scorecard before the meet or anything like that. Thanks very much.
    The routines actually change throughout the year so they don't publish them usually. What a gymnast does the first couple weeks of the season won't be what they do the last week.

    And even within a meet that routine may change. Utah often has a 'safe' routine for those times when they're needing a solid hit vs the chance for a really big score.

    The judging system changes ever 4 years and it changed this year. This link details that, but a lot of it is very technical

    https://www.collegegymfans.com/resul...2016-2017.html

    I can tell you as of now all Utah gymnasts but 1 are doing a vault that is worth a maximum of 9.95 if done perfectly. The other 3 events every routine is worth the full 10.0 if perfect


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  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Diehard Ute View Post
    I'll just go by number since trying to go under yours on a phone is tough.

    1) You usually try and order from weakest to strongest in each event. You want your best gymnasts finishing as the scoring tends to creep up. Occasionally you'll "hide" someone at the end who is struggling or who is trying a new routine.

    2) There's no limits on who can compete or any other restrictions on how you make up your lineup.

    3) Each gymnast does different routines. Some will do more difficulty than others. Each element is assigned a difficulty value. To get to a 10.0 start value there are certain required elements. Not all gymnasts do 10.0 (most of your top 20 teams do, lower schools may not). For instance a Triple Twist or Full-In on floor are 'E' elements. A double pike or double tuck are 'D'. E is the hardest. A is the easiest.

    4) Beam is the hardest event. Vault was the easiest although they devalued the Yurchenko Full this year so scores are lower there. I would say bars and floor are about equal in difficulty. Road teams in a dual meet format always finish on beam. If your trailing on the road in the last rotation you're not going to win very often.

    5) Dual meets always have the home team with "Olympic" rotation which is vault, bars, beam then floor. That's the most desirable rotation and the home team will always have that. In the post season the rotation is a random draw.




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    What you said about the road team needing a good lead going into Tha last rotation certainly proved true today. We had a lead but not one big enough. Good showing though.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by concerned View Post
    What you said about the road team needing a good lead going into Tha last rotation certainly proved true today. We had a lead but not one big enough. Good showing though.
    The score will help us immensely as road scores are more important

    I didn't get to watch the meet, but it's always a head scratcher when the home team starts with a 9.625 the. Throws 5 straight routines that get at least one 9.95.

    I enjoy gym. The judging part of gym s drives me crazy.


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  15. #15
    And I should say, the way the team has responded after losing Kari Lee has been impressive.

    The Utes have a lot of talent, but it's mostly young talent. Next years team will have a lot of firepower, especially with MyKayla Skinner arriving next year (She deferred to try and make the olympics. She's won two world championships gold medals as a member of the US team)




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  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Diehard Ute View Post
    And I should say, the way the team has responded after losing Kari Lee has been impressive.

    The Utes have a lot of talent, but it's mostly young talent. Next years team will have a lot of firepower, especially with MyKayla Skinner arriving next year (She deferred to try and make the olympics. She's won two world championships gold medals as a member of the US team)




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    I'm not sure why, (I do, obviously.) but I initially read that as her being a member of the US Ski Team.



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  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Dwight Schr-Ute View Post
    I'm not sure why, (I do, obviously.) but I initially read that as her being a member of the US Ski Team.



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    Haha, she's not Andy Phillps part deux.


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  18. #18
    Administrator U-Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diehard Ute View Post
    The score will help us immensely as road scores are more important

    I didn't get to watch the meet, but it's always a head scratcher when the home team starts with a 9.625 the. Throws 5 straight routines that get at least one 9.95.

    I enjoy gym. The judging part of gym s drives me crazy.


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    We watched it. The girl fell down on the first routine, and the rest of the routines were all pretty amazing. The scoring was legit. You have to give UCLA credit.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by U-Ute View Post
    We watched it. The girl fell down on the first routine, and the rest of the routines were all pretty amazing. The scoring was legit. You have to give UCLA credit.
    Well if she fell that's a bigger indictment of the judging as a fall is a mandatory 0.5 deduction.

    Read many posts from people who I know and trust when it comes to scoring. They're all in agreement the judging was mediocre at best.


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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diehard Ute View Post
    Well if she fell that's a bigger indictment of the judging as a fall is a mandatory 0.5 deduction.

    Read many posts from people who I know and trust when it comes to scoring. They're all in agreement the judging was mediocre at best.


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    I certainly don't know all of the subtleties, so from the perspective of a casual fan who has seen a lot of meets, it didn't seem amiss.

  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by U-Ute View Post
    I certainly don't know all of the subtleties, so from the perspective of a casual fan who has seen a lot of meets, it didn't seem amiss.
    Here's a great tweet from Greg Marsden showing the issues. In this case a vault that should never get a 9.85

    https://twitter.com/pac12marz/status/696732863505440768




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  22. #22
    Team puts up a 197.15 to beat Stanford on the road.

    First time in 32 years the team competes without Megan Marsden coaching beam. She's back at the hotel with the flu.

    The road score is big, it'll keep us about where we are in the rankings. Two more road meets before senior night.


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  23. #23
    I love your updates here. Keep them coming.

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  24. #24
    What is Georgia ranked? Anybody know?

  25. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by concerned View Post
    What is Georgia ranked? Anybody know?
    I thought I saw they were ranked #9 right now. Definitely a higher number than Utah, but in the single digits.
    Dyslexics of the world, untie!

  26. #26
    This isn't Georgia from the glory days. Since Suzanne Yoculan retired they've struggled. While they usually hover just inside the Top 10 they haven't really been a part of the national discussion for the last few years.


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  27. #27

  28. #28
    Utes win, putting up a 197.675. Maddy Stover injured on floor. No word what it is yet.


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  29. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Diehard Ute View Post
    Utes win, putting up a 197.675. Maddy Stover injured on floor. No word what it is yet.


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    levation
    That would explain why she stumbled badly on the floor, landing on her knees. Got a 9.3. She got no elevation on either of her jumps (see--I am an expert already.)

  30. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by concerned View Post
    levation
    That would explain why she stumbled badly on the floor, landing on her knees. Got a 9.3. She got no elevation on either of her jumps (see--I am an expert already.)
    I knew something was wrong on the first pass, was a bit surprised she continued

    As soon as the routine ended Megan and Katie, the trainer, met her. They immediately signaled to the team physicians. (Who happen to sit right in front of me).

    The orthopedic doc never came back out of the tunnel.


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