The Four Freshmen Thread

[LA Ute]

I'm having such a great time watching Kuzma, Poeltl, Chapman, and Wright (KCPW -- sounds like a radio station's call letters). I think they deserve their own thread.

I'll start with Poeltl. Every time I see him show signs of progress, I think back to two moments: First, when Chris Hill told me getting Jakob was a long shot for Utah because Arizona was going after him hard and he really liked the weather in Berkeley, so Cal was also ahead. Second, Comrade Crimson at his former blog was careful to say signing Poeltl was not really a big get for Larry, and Jakob was not someone Utah fans should get excited about. Whoops.

I. Wright is also one of my favorites to watch. The kid just gets it. It's going to be fun watching him for the next few years.

I saw Kuzma do some things last night that were astonishing from a 6'9" player.

Chapman still does some freshman things (they all do) but he looks very much at home on the court. He's going to be an impact player.

I love the way they all feed the post now that they have someone there with soft hands.

What do you all think?

[Old Standing ute]

I'm having such a great time watching Kuzma, Poeltl, Chapman, and Wright (KCPW -- sounds like a radio station's call letters). I think they deserve their own thread.

I'll start with Poeltl. Every time I see him show signs of progress, I think back to two moments: First, when Chris Hill told me getting Jakob was a long shot for Utah because Arizona was going after him hard and he really liked the weather in Berkeley, so Cal was also ahead. Second, Comrade Crimson at his former blog was careful to say signing Poeltl was not really a big get for Larry, and Jakob was not someone Utah fans should get excited about. Whoops.

I. Wright is also one of my favorites to watch. The kid just gets it. It's going to be fun watching him for the next few years.

I saw Kuzma do some things last night that were astonishing from a 6'9" player.

Chapman still does some freshman things (they all do) but he looks very much at home on the court. He's going to be an impact player.

I love the way they all feed the post now that they have someone there with soft hands.

What do you all think?

I think in 2 years (their Jr. year) if this group stays healthy they are national contenders.

Poeltl has 17 blocks through 5 games, will be over 100 for the year? He scores now on putbacks & rim feeds. If he can develop a more advanced low post games: jump hooks, step backs-- he will be a lottery pick.

Chapman is tougher than he looks, rebounds & blocks shots better than expected. He hit from 18' last night--finally. He has really good form--eventually he will stretch it to 3 range.

I. Wright may need to shoot more to really see how good he can be. Can't fault him for loving to pass.

Kuzma has a funky shot. As you noted up close he is bigger than you expect. He will be a huge 3, if he can guard wings.

Larry K ( and DeMarco?) can recruit.

[Applejack]

I'm waiting to see Kuzma against some really good competition. He's long, but like our friend Travis Wilson, he negates his height advantage by shooting with that weird hitch in his shot. I'm not sold on him as a shooter, yet.

Chapman looks good so far, he'll be a nice all around player.

[LA Ute]

I'm waiting to see Kuzma against some really good competition. He's long, but like our friend Travis Wilson, he negates his height advantage by shooting with that weird hitch in his shot. I'm not sold on him as a shooter, yet.

Chapman looks good so far, he'll be a nice all around player.

Kuzma's hitch isn't as bad as I envisioned it. It'll be interesting to see how much impact that really has. He does some nice things around the rim too, so his offensive output won't depend on outside shots. Some people describe him as a potential "point 4."

[Applejack]

Kuzma's hitch isn't as bad as I envisioned it. It'll be interesting to see how much impact that really has. He does some nice things around the rim too, so his offensive output won't depend on outside shots. Some people describe him as a potential "point 4."

Hmm, other thatn the SDSU game, I've only seen clips of Utah thusfar (I'm not staying up until 2:00 AM for Texas-Pan Am), but I haven't noticed Kuzma having an excellent handle.

[SoCalPat]

I'm having such a great time watching Kuzma, Poeltl, Chapman, and Wright (KCPW -- sounds like a radio station's call letters). I think they deserve their own thread.

I'll start with Poeltl. Every time I see him show signs of progress, I think back to two moments: First, when Chris Hill told me getting Jakob was a long shot for Utah because Arizona was going after him hard and he really liked the weather in Berkeley, so Cal was also ahead. Second, Comrade Crimson at his former blog was careful to say signing Poeltl was not really a big get for Larry, and Jakob was not someone Utah fans should get excited about. Whoops.

I. Wright is also one of my favorites to watch. The kid just gets it. It's going to be fun watching him for the next few years.

I saw Kuzma do some things last night that were astonishing from a 6'9" player.

Chapman still does some freshman things (they all do) but he looks very much at home on the court. He's going to be an impact player.

I love the way they all feed the post now that they have someone there with soft hands.

What do you all think?

If Hill told the media what he told you, he'd be guilty of a violation.

Additionally, there was zero reason to get excited over Poeltl if you've lived in Austria and know how barren of a hoops wasteland that nation is. It's a miracle for Poeltl to have even been discovered, much less be an impact contributor this early in his career.

[LA Ute]

Additionally, there was zero reason to get excited over Poeltl if you've lived in Austria and know how barren of a hoops wasteland that nation is. It's a miracle for Poeltl to have even been discovered, much less be an impact contributor this early in his career.

He's a 7-footer and Arizona offered him. On that basis alone I was hopeful and intrigued, and thought maybe Larry had gotten a diamond in the rough. That was a reasonable, information-based way to think, but I really knew nothing. I still don't understand why, knowing that two other PAC-12 schools wanted him, you think it was reasonable to assume Poeltl was nothing to get excited about, because he was from Austria.

BTW, my wife's mother is from Austria. We spent a week there last summer and have been there many times to visit relatives. It's true, they care about soccer and many of the Olympic sports, but not basketball. No one we spoke to had ever heard of Jakob Poeltl. So his being from Austria is grounds for skepticism, I'll grant you that. I just thought it was funny that Crimmy, the anti-Krysko guy, seemed to be working hard to minimize the significance of the signing.

[LA Ute]

Hmm, other thatn the SDSU game, I've only seen clips of Utah thusfar (I'm not staying up until 2:00 AM for Texas-Pan Am), but I haven't noticed Kuzma having an excellent handle.

I'm basing my view on very limited info: what I saw in the North Dakota State game last night. I may well be guilty of irrational exuberance.

[UtahsMrSports]

Comrade Crimson is a clueless clown with the insight and analysis of a fun size raisin. His poo poo ing the poeltl signing should have been our first clue that hed be good.

All this talk about him being from austria.....meh. what matters more is who was after him. And we got him.

I love our freshmam class. Anxious to see how it plays out. Could rival 94 eventually.

[#1 Utefan]

Comrade Crimson is a clueless clown with the insight and analysis of a fun size raisin. His poo poo ing the poeltl signing should have been our first clue that hed be good.

All this talk about him being from austria.....meh. what matters more is who was after him. And we got him.

I love our freshmam class. Anxious to see how it plays out. Could rival 94 eventually.

Amen to this. How can anyone take any basketball analysis by Comrade Crimson on a coach or player seriously?

We are talking about a guy who advocated and supported the two worst Utah basketball coaches in my lifetime (Giacoletti & Boylen) to the bitter end while continuing to attempt to marginalize and criticize Larry K. while the program rebounds and takes off.

I said at the time of Coach K's hire that it was a great sign and hint of future success that Crimson was so negative and critical of his hiring. In this respect, it comes as no surprise at all that he was so wrong on Poetl as well.

[SeattleUte]

Amen to this. How can anyone take any basketball analysis by Comrade Crimson on a coach or player seriously?

We are talking about a guy who advocated and supported the two worst Utah basketball coaches in my lifetime (Giacoletti & Boylen) to the bitter end while continuing to attempt to marginalize and criticize Larry K. while the program rebounds and takes off.

I said at the time of Coach K's hire that it was a great sign and hint of future success that Crimson was so negative and critical of his hiring. In this respect, it comes as no surprise at all that he was so wrong on Poetl as well.

The first thing to understand about Hoyo is that it's never about Utah sports. It's always about him and his internal demons. This is a guy who idolizes Lenin.

[Old Standing ute]

I'm basing my view on very limited info: what I saw in the North Dakota State game last night. I may well be guilty of irrational exuberance.

Compare Kuzma to Loveridge.
Kuzma is taller & has better vertical, maybe faster.
Handles the ball better with his left hand--although could be better with more work.
Is probably now, & in 2 years will be a better rebounder than current Loveridge.

As freshman neither had/has proper "looking" shot from 3.

Neither is a very good defender---Kuzma might have better potential here.

If he works as hard as Loveridge on his shot then in the long run will be a better player.
Not an All-American, maybe never 1st team all Pac-12, but a very good player.

[#1 Utefan]

Compare Kuzma to Loveridge.
Kuzma is taller & has better vertical, maybe faster.
Handles the ball better with his left hand--although could be better with more work.
Is probably now, & in 2 years will be a better rebounder than current Loveridge.

As freshman neither had/has proper "looking" shot from 3.

Neither is a very good defender---Kuzma might have better potential here.

If he works as hard as Loveridge on his shot then in the long run will be a better player.
Not an All-American, maybe never 1st team all Pac-12, but a very good player.

I don't know, it is too early to try to project who will turn out out to be the better player and what their ceilings may be. Both seem to be pretty talented players for freshman with the potential to develop into all conference caliber players IMHO.

You our make some good points about Kuzma and his strengths but I do think Chapman has a smoother stroke and may turn out to be the better shooter of the two in the long haul.

[U-Ute]

Comrade Crimson is a clueless clown with the insight and analysis of a fun size raisin. His poo poo ing the poeltl signing should have been our first clue that hed be good.

There's a reason he deferred to me on all things basketball back in the days of Usenet.

[U-Ute]

I have been so ridiculously bullish on these guys so far this year in other threads, I won't repost what I have said here.

But I have more observations to add:

Poeltl moves his feet so well for a big guy it is just flat out unfair. He runs the floor like a wing, can defend on the perimeter, and keeps blocks inbounds. I don't think he sees his junior year.

Chapman's shot comes down on the rim like a feather. He is going to be fun to watch when he dials it in.

I am officially on the IWright as a PG bandwagon. His floor command is solid, he has good handles, and can shoot when he needs to. Good at finding the guy with the hot hand.

Kuzma may end up being the 4th best of the 4. Which is like saying "Pippen was only the second best player on his team."

[U-Ute]

Oh, one last, but important: defense.

For how talented these guys are on offense, they work hard and play smart on the defensive side of the ball too.

Unusual for kids these days.

[Old Standing ute]

I don't know, it is too early to try to project who will turn out out to be the better player and what their ceilings may be. Both seem to be pretty talented players for freshman with the potential to develop into all conference caliber players IMHO.

You our make some good points about Kuzma and his strengths but I do think Chapman has a smoother stroke and may turn out to be the better shooter of the two in the long haul.

I was trying to compare Kuzma & Jordan Loveridge as freshmen.
As to Chapman & Kuzma, I am with you Chapman has a better stroke---he will need some muscle/bulk to play 4 at a higher level, but he has the frame for it.
He might be gone before 4 years too.

[concerned]

Those saying that Poeltl might be gone after two years could be too conservative.



Jody Genessy ‏@DJJazzyJody 7s7 seconds ago
Wow. Ute frosh center Jakob Poeltl is the "draft sleeper" and a Top 20 guy in @chadfordinsider's Big Board 3.0. http://es.pn/1zLYiSL (in)

[sancho]

Those saying that Poeltl might be gone after two years could be too conservative.



Jody Genessy ‏@DJJazzyJody 7s7 seconds ago
Wow. Ute frosh center Jakob Poeltl is the "draft sleeper" and a Top 20 guy in @chadfordinsider's Big Board 3.0. http://es.pn/1zLYiSL (in)

I guess that solves the scholarship dilemma.

[Applejack]

Those saying that Poeltl might be gone after two years could be too conservative.



Jody Genessy ‏@DJJazzyJody 7s7 seconds ago
Wow. Ute frosh center Jakob Poeltl is the "draft sleeper" and a Top 20 guy in @chadfordinsider's Big Board 3.0. http://es.pn/1zLYiSL (in)

When was the last time we had two first round draft picks in one year?

Edit: I just looked it up. 1981. Chambers and Vranes were both Top 10! I forget Vranes went so high (5th).

[UtahsMrSports]

I guess that solves the scholarship dilemma.

I guess technically, although I cant imagine Larry K and company going in to next year with JO and Makol Mawien as the only 5's on the roster. Wed have to go get another one.

This is cool! Can anyone give a readers digest version of what Chad has to say about Jakob and where he puts him here? Having 90% of Chad's stuff behind a pay wall is as dumb as the Utezone or UteSportsReport guys who think their practice reports are good enough to put behind a paywall, but I digress......

[311ute]

Ford on Poeltl:

Poeltl has emerged as this year's draft sleeper. Through the first six games of the season, the Austrian native ranks fourth in all of college basketball with a crazy 39.87 PER. He has the highest PER of any player on our Big Board. He has a terrific 21.9 rebound rate -- the highest of any player on our Board. He's big, long, athletic, blocks shots and shows a lot of skill in the low post and on his midrange jumper. He had 12 rebounds and seven blocked shots against San Diego State and an impressive 25 points, 12 rebounds five blocks against North Dakota on Friday. A large contingent of scouts are heading to the Utah-Wichita State game on Wednesday. If Poeltl plays big there, he'll rocket up this board. Given his size and potential, there's no reason he couldn't be a top 10 pick by the end of the season.

[Dwight Schr-Ute]

Those saying that Poeltl might be gone after two years could be too conservative.

Jody Genessy ‏@DJJazzyJody 7s7 seconds ago
Wow. Ute frosh center Jakob Poeltl is the "draft sleeper" and a Top 20 guy in @chadfordinsider's Big Board 3.0. http://es.pn/1zLYiSL (in)

Yikes. We're only 5 patsies into the season, but Jakob is definitely starting to attract some attention. I was hoping that we get him for three seasons, but maybe that was too optimistic. Wednesday could be a good indicator.

Also has Delon as a late first rounder, but that belongs in a different thread.

[311ute]

Ford on Delon (has him at 28):

Wright is off to a terrific start to his senior season. He's posting the third-highest PER on our Big Board at 37.04, but the key for him is a dramatic improvement in his 3-point shooting (up from 22 percent last year to 55 percent this season) and a drop from 2.5 turnovers a game to 1.5 turnovers per game. With the draft devoid of legit point guard prospects, Wright could see his stock steadily rise all season if he can keep playing at this level.

[LA Ute]

I'm hoping for 2 and done but maybe 1 and done will happen. I wish the NBA would adopt a 2-season rule like the NFL's.

[concerned]

I'm hoping for 2 and done but maybe 1 and done will happen. I wish the NBA would adopt a 2-season rule like the NFL's.

I could be wrong, but I think the NFL has a 3 season rule.

[Applejack]

I'm hoping for 2 and done but maybe 1 and done will happen. I wish the NBA would adopt a 2-season rule like the NFL's.

No you don't. The one-and-doners really hurt the blue bloods of college basketball: UCLA, Duke, etc. They spend all of their recruiting time going after kids that only stick around for a year. It allows teams just below the top (like us!) to have a competitive advantage, namely consistency.

Of course, Kentucky has figured out how to leverage the one-and-dones into a wonderful model.

[justaute]

Is it Kentucky or Can'tucky? LOL. I crack myself up...ok, no more humor from me today.

No you don't. The one-and-doners really hurt the blue bloods of college basketball: UCLA, Duke, etc. They spend all of their recruiting time going after kids that only stick around for a year. It allows teams just below the top (like us!) to have a competitive advantage, namely consistency.

Of course, Kentucky has figured out how to leverage the one-and-dones into a wonderful model.

[LA Ute]

No you don't. The one-and-doners really hurt the blue bloods of college basketball: UCLA, Duke, etc. They spend all of their recruiting time going after kids that only stick around for a year. It allows teams just below the top (like us!) to have a competitive advantage, namely consistency.

Of course, Kentucky has figured out how to leverage the one-and-dones into a wonderful model.

You're right, from a parochial point of view. I go back and forth, but I end up thinking it would be better for college hoops as a whole if the NBA followed the NFL's lead -- whether it is two or three years.

[UtahsMrSports]

You're right, from a parochial point of view. I go back and forth, but I end up thinking it would be better for college hoops as a whole if the NBA followed the NFL's lead -- whether it is two or three years.

I have always thought baseball had a good model with this. You can enter the draft right out of high school, but if you dont like where you are drafted/who drafted you, you can opt to go back to college for two years (at a JUCO) or three years (at a 4 year school). It would need some tweaks, but it could be a workable model.