I keep hearing the bolded part above, but have a hard time believing is the majority of homeless youth. I tend to think most youth are homeless because they choose to leave rather than getting kicked out. Or if they did get kicked out, it was due to more than just being lgbt. Are there any studies to back up that assertion?Originally Posted by NorthwestUteFan
“To me there is no dishonor in being wrong and learning. There is dishonor in willful ignorance and there is dishonor in disrespect.” James Hatch, former Navy Seal and current Yale student.
This center is explicitly for lgbt youths. They typically have vastly different backgrounds than the typical homeless person. And in Utah most of them grew up Mormon to varying degrees.
Last edited by NorthwestUteFan; 07-02-2015 at 01:55 PM.
Not sure how that equals "thrown out". I don't doubt there may be some very old fashioned parents out there that might shun a child that comes out, but I have to think that is not the norm. This based on my anecdotal experience in very Mormon Davis county.
Last edited by chrisrenrut; 07-02-2015 at 05:13 PM.
“To me there is no dishonor in being wrong and learning. There is dishonor in willful ignorance and there is dishonor in disrespect.” James Hatch, former Navy Seal and current Yale student.
Many of the stories have now been edited. It was first indicated to be a "credit." Now, it's an "undisclosed amount." Centre officials are quoted in in The Tribune story asking for: "donations of perishable items for the food pantry program." The KSL story also states: "The Utah Pride Center approached the church in the spring, asking if the Bishops' Storehouse could donate perishable food items for its homeless and low-income youth program, according to Kent Frogley, the Utah Pride Center board president."
So it wasn't money that the Centre was seeking. It is food and other items. Understanding how Bishop Storehouses work is paramount. There are protocols and procedures. The facts just don't support the narrative you wish to advance.
And these are the most important words in your FOX13 linked article:
Bishop Storehouse's don't give money.“The Utah Pride Center is grateful for the church’s help in our efforts to provide food for those in our community who are in need,” said the center’s board president, Kent Frogley, in a statement. “We are grateful for their generosity and the emerging relationship with The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. We know that this contribution marks a significant moment in the LDS/LGBTQ relationship.”
Sheila Raboy, the center’s interim operations director, said the donation wasn’t a surprise as they had applied for a storehouse grant and got what they applied for.
I think a more productive letter to read over the pulpit would be one about not bringing your kids to church if they have Hand, Foot and Mouth disease! Here's my 17 month old's leg today.
Was that contracted at church?I think a more productive letter to read over the pulpit would be one about not bringing your kids to church if they have Hand, Foot and Mouth disease! Here's my 17 month old's leg today.
Yep. My three year old showed up with it first after going to nursery for the first time in three weeks and then promptly gave it to his brothers.
We haven't had that, but we've had pink eye go through our nursery before. Thankfully that family moved down to Atlanta. Sorry Georgia!
“It only ends once. Anything that happens before that is just progress.”
Well, because he thought it was good sport. Because some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.
Ditto here. My kids didn't get it because we were out of town for the first week of the exposure, and they ended up cancelling nursery for a month. A number of kids ended up with it.
The mother of Patient Zero had 4 children with HFM, and had to deal with it while her husband was deployed overseas. No fun!
Read this article:
http://www.nomorestrangers.org/homeless-youth-in-utah/
The article is from two years ago. The more recent estimates are that Utah has a population of roughly 4000 homeless lgbt teenagers. The donation to the Utah Pride Center is a very good start. Hopefully these kids can get off to a fresh start, and society will start valuing them rather than forcing them out on the street.The majority of the youth we work with identify as lesbian, gay, bisexual or transgender. Statewide, the numbers are about half who call themselves LGB or T, and that means the number is higher. Youth often don’t self-identify as LGBT for fear of bullying or worse. Of those roughly 50% LGBT homeless youth, 60% report that they are from Latter-day Saint homes. At OUTreach, the vast majority of the youth we serve are from Mormon homes, and far too often the reason they are living on the streets, in a camp, car or couch is because their parent said to them, “Pack your backpack and be out before dawn. Come back when you have “straightened up” or don’t come back at all.”
For these youth, some as young as 14, they are left to fend for themselves. What usually happens is that as soon as they hit the street with their backpack or suitcase, a “helpful” adult offers them a ride and a couch to sleep on. The youth’s trust is misplaced when she or he is assaulted at night, or perhaps injected with drugs while she sleeps, and then enters into a life of addiction and trauma that lasts until true help is found, or too often, in tragic death. There are no numbers for homeless youth suicides, but what we do know is that one of their camps in the canyon near Salt Lake City is called Suicide Rock. Every youth I meet knows one, two or several youth who have lost their life to suicide. The epidemic of LGBT youth homelessness and suicide in Utah is inextricably linked.
OUTreach recently started a host home project so that youth from Mormon homes wouldn’t ever face a dark cold night with a freshly packed suitcase and nowhere to turn. We see that the only way to help homeless youth is to prevent youth homelessness. The trauma of rejection, assault, and fear is incapacitating, with only a handful surviving to create the underground nation that we can’t accurately count. It is these youth I see, as they travel through our region and the country, searching for safe human contact, and yes food and shelter. Our volunteers give them what we can, and the humanity that they crave. But we can never give them their childhood back, or the love of their parents, siblings, grandparents, and church. They are faceless, nameless shadows, populating an underground nation, right next to us, to you, every day.
This is a bad problem. LDS parents who do that to their LGBT kids ought to be ashamed of themselves. But I don't get the numbers. This Washington Post article praising the Utah (Salt Lake County, mainly) approach to homelessness puts the number of homeless in the state pretty low:
If there are 4000 homeless LGBT teenagers that's a huge scandal. That would be over twice as many of those kids as there were "chronically homeless" 10 years ago (and that term may not include the population you're talking about). The main thing is to get LDS parents to treat their LGBT kids decently.In 2005, Utah had nearly 1,932 chronically homeless. By 2014, that number had dropped 72 percent to 539. Today, explained Gordon Walker, the director of the state Housing and Community Development Division, the state is “approaching a functional zero.” Next week, he said, they’re set to announce what he called “exciting news” that would guarantee an “even bigger headline,” but declined to elaborate further.
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
--Yeats
“True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”
--John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell
835,634 people could see these are faulty numbers.
In my old ward, we had a family storm out of the church and never return because a member of the bishopric asked them to take their child that had shingles out of the nursery.
The nerve(s) of some people!In my old ward, we had a family storm out of the church and never return because a member of the bishopric asked them to take their child that had shingles out of the nursery.
“To me there is no dishonor in being wrong and learning. There is dishonor in willful ignorance and there is dishonor in disrespect.” James Hatch, former Navy Seal and current Yale student.
My guess is that they are off by one or two people. Maybe as many as 2.5.
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
--Yeats
“True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”
--John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell
The number constantly fluctuates, and few people will be permanently homeless. I don't know the actual number but whether it is several weeks to a few months it certainly is long enough for a young person to get harmed, abused, or starve to death.
The numbers i posted were reported by those organizations who work first hand with the homeless kids. OUTreach reported ~1375 known homeless lgbt kids in Utah in 2013. The 4000 number was from a recent story in the Ogden Standard-Examiner, and was from a different group besides OUTreach.
But yes there is a problem. And the single biggest bit of assistance the LDS church could do to help would be, as the major cultural influence in the state, to remind people to be loving and understanding and compassionate, and stop the harmful dialogue. Even the old couplet "Love the sinner, Hate the sin" can give people cover to do and say very harmful things.
Last edited by NorthwestUteFan; 07-03-2015 at 03:26 PM.
I hope this has time to become viral in the LDS community.
http://www.mormonmentalhealthassoc.o...itions-of-mmha
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
--Yeats
“True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”
--John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell
Might not happen to the extent necessary, because John Dehlin is involved and the associated stench of excommunication on him will keep some people away.
That is a shame, because the mental health professionals make an extremely valid and timely point about statements like this position letter and their contribution to elevated suicide risk in those who are told their most personal, natural feelings are 'sinful'.
They gathered all the primary teachers together before class and read the letter. It was the first counselor in the bishopric and he basically said if you have any questions, please direct them to the bishop (way to pass the buck!).
My wife said that the Relief Society reading went well...didn't say if there was much discussion, and all my EQ buddies no longer really attend EQ, so I haven't heard how that went, though we did have a new EQP called yesterday who has literally been in the ward for about a month, so that's nice for him.
“It only ends once. Anything that happens before that is just progress.”
Well, because he thought it was good sport. Because some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.
I went home after sacrament meeting yesterday with sick kids. I thought that it was probably nice to miss "the letter". Then I found out that they didn't do it in our ward. After hearing about how it went in my sister's ward (apparently, they had a full discussion, which included at one point comparing same sex marriage to murder....) I hope I have a sick kid again on Sunday.
We were out of town on vacation and were able to attend only sacrament meeting in the ward we visited -- for my in-laws' baby blessing. I was really curious about the whole letter thing so am sorry I missed it.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
--Yeats
“True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”
--John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell
We didn't have it yesterday. But they did announce that we would have a brief meeting next week right before church. I hope they just read it and then move along.
We had it yesterday. My bishop did a nice job as always. He read it in priesthood opening exercises and asked if there were any questions or comments. 23 people ran from the room crying and 18 people lost their testimony while the church elders stroked their beards and clucked their tongues. Wait, I was channeling NWUF for a minute.
Actually no comments there or in the discussion following it in our lesson and I was bracing for it because the typically ward crazies were all there.
As mentioned, I think everyone gets it, they want to move on and nobody thinks it is accelerating the end of times.
Now the story I heard about an unrelated lesson in Primary from my wife's friends sister's ward... That'll curl your hair.
The Bishop read it, and most people just rolled their eyes (the younger people especially). Marriage equality has been the law of our state for several years already, and somehow the world hasn't burned down yet and teh gheys haven't forced their way into the Seattle Temple to get sealed.We had it yesterday. My bishop did a nice job as always. He read it in priesthood opening exercises and asked if there were any questions or comments. 23 people ran from the room crying and 18 people lost their testimony while the church elders stroked their beards and clucked their tongues. Wait, I was channeling NWUF for a minute.
.
One of the ward crazies (who brags about having 4+ years of food storage) got into it with my wife on Facebook, warning her that "Evil Forces" in the world are conspiring to take away her right to worship as she chooses, and that the Supreme Court decision is merely the first step, and next she will lose her tax deduction on tithing.
My wife reminder her that lgbt marriage was already legal in 36 states (including our own), and all the Supreme Court decision did was force the remaining 14 states to reciprocate to recognize marriages that are legal elsewhere. And also it is not legal to ban marriages.
I am fine with the church maintaining their doctrine and boundaries. I wish they would recognize legal marriages between consenting adults (so long as the relationships are to rooted in the principles of Christ-like love, mutual respect, responsibility, justice, covenant, and faithfulness). I doubt I will see any of this from SLC in my lifetime, but we can see it in our own wards from time to time (and depending on local leadership roulette).
For instance, my grandfather's ward in Seattle has a number of married gay couples and at least one lesbian couple, plus a lot of lgbt single people, who attend actively (nearly all are relatively recently re-activated). Many hold callings. They have not been shamed, or called into disciplinary councils, for their 'sins' (despite the CHoI stating that same sex marriage and sexual activity are excommunicable offenses). The bishopric of this ward reached out last year and held a special fireside to invite lgbt people (and couples) to come worship with them, and quite a few people came in from out of the cold to worship with the community of their youth.
Sadly this is far from a regular occurrence in the church. My hope is that a bit of passive resistance like this from those members and leaders who live in the hinterlands (whether physical or metaphorical), will eventually crack through the rigid dogmatism, hubris, and provincialism that seems to pervade the COB.
Last edited by NorthwestUteFan; 07-06-2015 at 02:50 PM.
I don't know, seems like people get all kinds of screwy things stuck in their head. For example, can't tell you how many members believe premarital sex is third in seriousness after murder and denying the Holy Ghost. Nutty.
“Children and dogs are as necessary to the welfare of the country as Wall Street and the railroads.” -- Harry S. Truman
"You never soar so high as when you stoop down to help a child or an animal." -- Jewish Proverb
"Three-time Pro Bowler Eric Weddle the most versatile, and maybe most intelligent, safety in the game." -- SI, 9/7/15, p. 107.
We were probably taught that stuff in Seminary and it got stuck in our minds. That little chestnut is still in the current BoM Study Guide:
https://www.lds.org/manual/book-of-m...ma-39?lang=eng
[Quote]
Alma 39:5–6—How Serious Are Sexual Sins in the Eyes of the Lord? The First Presidency, in a message read during the October 1942 general conference, declared: “Sexual sin … stands, in its enormity, next to murder. … “… You cannot associate in non-marital, illicit sex relationships … and escape the punishments and the judgments which the Lord has declared against this sin." in Conference Report, Oct. 1942, 11).
Whetever its provenance, I think we should blame byu.
This is a perspective I hadn't seen before.
http://ldslights.org/the-other-side-...ormon-support/
The discussion going on from all sides is important and I am learning. A lot.
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
--Yeats
“True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”
--John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell
I made a hasty post and wasn't clear. Nobody was actually comparing SSM to murder but apparently somebody tried to make an analogy that was really convoluted and clunky and made people uncomfortable.
One thing I have learned in a long life: that all our science, measured against reality, is primitive and childlike -- and yet it is the most precious thing we have.
--Albert Einstein
The fact that life evolved out of nearly nothing, some 10 billion years after the universe evolved out of literally nothing, is a fact so staggering that I would be mad to attempt words to do it justice.
--Richard Dawkins
Be kind to all, for everyone you meet is fighting a great battle.
--Philo
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