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Thread: 2016 Presidential Election

  1. #2581
    Quote Originally Posted by Ma'ake View Post
    This article nails it.

    In an ambiguous, complex world, all Americans need to remember these two things:

    1. Julian Assange and WikiLeaks are absolutely anti-American. I've been telling my more liberal colleagues this for the past few years. Nothing would please Assange more than the decline of the US.

    2. Vladimir Putin and his Russia are absolutely not friends to America. Hopefully, our more conservative citizens can wrap their minds around this.

    I would be particularly interested to hear what DevilDog, his marine son, and their social circle think about Assange.

    Are you guys really Assange fanboys, now? (Really?)
    What baffles me is that, I am reasonably certain, conservatives understood #2 when Obama was heard over a hot mike saying he would be more flexible regarding his Russian policy after the 2012 election. So, now that a different man is about to become president, suddenly the Russians have changed?

    Politics frequently leads people to do and say dumb things they would not ordinarily do or say.
    "It'd be nice to please everyone but I thought it would be more interesting to have a point of view." -- Oscar Levant

  2. #2582
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    2016 Presidential Election

    Attitudes like this, widely expressed, are part of what made Trump possible, IMO.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/MJB_SF/st...rc=twsrc%5Etfw


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Last edited by LA Ute; 01-09-2017 at 08:54 AM.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    "Nine tenths of wisdom consists of being wise in time."
    --Theodore Roosevelt


  3. #2583
    Motorboatin' SOB Devildog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocker Ute View Post
    If you think Putin has mutual respect for Trump or America you are gravely mistaken.

    Cmon, you really like our president bowing to Putin? Trump is his butt-boy.
    Butt-boy? Your mind is made up and closed. Hillary was a terrible choice... sorry you lost. Personally, I can't believe you all thought she was the better choice... damn, I think you should be ashamed of yourselves for even considering that.



    Last edited by Devildog; 01-08-2017 at 06:03 PM.
    "We should remember that one man is much the same as another, and that he is best who is trained in the severest school."
    -Thucydides


    "Study strategy over the years and achieve the spirit of the warrior. Today is victory over yourself of yesterday; tomorrow is your victory over lesser men."
    -Miyamoto Musashi

    Si vis pacem, para bellum

  4. #2584
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    Attitudes like this, widely expressed, or part of what made Trump possible, IMO.
    https://mobile.twitter.com/MJB_SF/st...rc=twsrc%5Etfw
    I agree.

    Here's some demographic insight on the urban/rural divide, provided by former Utah Lt Governor Greg Bell - who is now head of the Utah Hospitals association: http://www.sltrib.com/opinion/478584...l-must-restore

    Rural Utah is much more dependent upon Medicare than is the urban population.

    This isn't anything new - there are ghost towns from the past all over the West that died, as economics changed.

    The big difference is in the digital age, the demise of towns like Lucin, Utah - a water stop on the railroad when steam locomotives were dominant - would now become part of a social movement, a rallying call for similarly challenged communities to join together and resist economic change, and denigrate city dwellers.

  5. #2585
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    Attitudes like this, widely expressed, are part of what made Trump possible, IMO.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/MJB_SF/st...rc=twsrc%5Etfw


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    I think there's something to this. Rural folks have been ignored & when not ignored, denigrated. A few decades ago the 'American Farmer' was a political force. After that was no longer true and corporate farming took over the land, politicians still paid homage. I think it's a similar political trend. Many, many small towns are hurting. The first step for politicians is empty promises. We'll see where it goes from here.

    That said...

    About 20 years ago when I worked for ATK (aka the rocket ranch) we had a project to take over an industrial site in the north east crotch of Mississippi, near the city Iuka Mississippi - right on the border of Alabama and Tennessee. It's a nice area - green (really, really green), not crowded, great fishing & boating, great golf, no traffic, near Mussel Shoals, and very affordable - we could have bought a plantation.

    A nuclear power plant was planned for the site and was about 10% complete in 1979 when the Three Mile Island incident killed it. Then, after Challenger, NASA-Lockheed-Aerojet built a plant to manufacture a redesigned shuttle solid booster. The Utah congressional delegation was able to kill the project after the manufacturing buildings were constructed but before most the machinery was delivered. They were terrific buildings - pristine, new overhead cranes, great utilities & logistics. About $1 billion had been spent on the site over a couple decades with absolutely nothing to show for it. So we showed up and took over the buildings for $1/year (or something like that).

    Anyway, the company wanted to transfer me and my wife (she also worked for ATK) to Iuka. Longer story not so long, we declined the offer. A lot of the reason was the thought of raising my two sons in rural Mississippi/Alabama/Tennessee. The schools suck, the dialect is incomprehensible and some of the people are unrepentant bigots. A couple examples, we visited the Helen Keller house in Alabama. Someone had spray-painted the N word on the site's road sign. The Helen Keller House, for god's sake.

    While pumping gas, a white guy next to me saw me looking at the black family that pulled up to the station's quicky store. They were in a beat-up heap and obviously very poor. The adult was obese and both she and the five or six young kids were dressed in rags. The white guy next to me, not knowing I was from out of state since I was driving a rental, drawled 'F**king Democrats' just loud enough for me to hear.

    I know it's not fair for me to judge the region based on a couple bad experiences. And I've had similar experiences in urban and rural Utah. But the thought of raising my kids there was too much. Besides, it was a dry county.

    "It isn't what we don't know that gives us trouble, it's what we know that ain't so"
    - Will Rogers

    "Cyberspace is - or can be - a good, friendly and egalitarian place to meet. "

    - Douglas Adams

  6. #2586
    Quote Originally Posted by Ma'ake View Post
    I agree.

    Here's some demographic insight on the urban/rural divide, provided by former Utah Lt Governor Greg Bell - who is now head of the Utah Hospitals association: http://www.sltrib.com/opinion/478584...l-must-restore

    Rural Utah is much more dependent upon Medicare than is the urban population.

    This isn't anything new - there are ghost towns from the past all over the West that died, as economics changed.

    The big difference is in the digital age, the demise of towns like Lucin, Utah - a water stop on the railroad when steam locomotives were dominant - would now become part of a social movement, a rallying call for similarly challenged communities to join together and resist economic change, and denigrate city dwellers.
    That's a pretty interesting article. I think it points out (without explicitly saying it) that one of the linchpins of the ACA was the state Medicaid expansion mandate that the Supreme Court declared unconstitutional. When states like Utah decided it was strategically and politically expedient to shaft poor folks out of healthcare, it shafted hospitals as well and caused serious damage to the ACA fabric.

    "It isn't what we don't know that gives us trouble, it's what we know that ain't so"
    - Will Rogers

    "Cyberspace is - or can be - a good, friendly and egalitarian place to meet. "

    - Douglas Adams

  7. #2587
    Administrator U-Ute's Avatar
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    Along those lines, this tweet caused quite the ruckus.

    Melinda Byerley is a Silicon Valley CEO of a startup.



    EDIT: And I'm a hack.
    Last edited by U-Ute; 01-09-2017 at 11:31 AM.

  8. #2588
    Quote Originally Posted by U-Ute View Post
    Along those lines, this tweet caused quite the ruckus.

    Melinda Byerley is a Silicon Valley CEO of a startup.



    EDIT: And I'm a hack.
    Pretty stupid tweet frankly and exposes a certain kind of close-mindedness to group small-town America that way. Ironically if you substituted 'rural' with 'inner-city' and flip a few other words this becomes a termination-worthy tweet.

  9. #2589
    Quote Originally Posted by Rocker Ute View Post
    Pretty stupid tweet frankly and exposes a certain kind of close-mindedness to group small-town America that way. Ironically if you substituted 'rural' with 'inner-city' and flip a few other words this becomes a termination-worthy tweet.
    hqdefault.jpg

  10. #2590
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    For your inner data wonk, Nate Silver and 538 explain how the election happened:

    https://fivethirtyeight.com/tag/the-real-story-of-2016/

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    "Nine tenths of wisdom consists of being wise in time."
    --Theodore Roosevelt


  11. #2591
    Administrator U-Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    For your inner data wonk, Nate Silver and 538 explain how the election happened:

    https://fivethirtyeight.com/tag/the-real-story-of-2016/
    A very interesting read. Thanks for sharing this!

  12. #2592
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Thoughtful review of what looks like a very interesting new book, Shattered: Inside Hillary Clinton’s Doomed Campaign:

    Hillary Clinton to President Obama on Election Night: ‘I’m Sorry’ I Lost

    http://www.thedailybeast.com/article...ry-i-lost.html


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    "Nine tenths of wisdom consists of being wise in time."
    --Theodore Roosevelt


  13. #2593
    Motorboatin' SOB Devildog's Avatar
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    Should we have a pity party for Hillary? The reasons she lost is so damn simple... most people didn't like her or what she represents. Welcome to voting in America... Hilarious that so many of you (including the conservative LA Ute are so fawking shocked) damn... makes me laugh. Out of touch can't even begin to describe it.
    "We should remember that one man is much the same as another, and that he is best who is trained in the severest school."
    -Thucydides


    "Study strategy over the years and achieve the spirit of the warrior. Today is victory over yourself of yesterday; tomorrow is your victory over lesser men."
    -Miyamoto Musashi

    Si vis pacem, para bellum

  14. #2594
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devildog View Post
    Should we have a pity party for Hillary? The reasons she lost is so damn simple... most people didn't like her or what she represents. Welcome to voting in America... Hilarious that so many of you (including the conservative LA Ute are so fawking shocked) damn... makes me laugh. Out of touch can't even begin to describe it.
    Why do you think I'm shocked? She was the worst presidential candidate of either party since I don't know when. William Jennings Bryan?

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    "Nine tenths of wisdom consists of being wise in time."
    --Theodore Roosevelt


  15. #2595
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Matt Taibbi in Rolling Stone:

    Yikes! New Behind-the-Scenes Book Brutalizes the Clinton Campaign
    'Shattered,' a campaign tell-all fueled by anonymous sources, outlines a generational political disaster

    http://www.rollingstone.com/politics...mpaign-w477978

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    "Nine tenths of wisdom consists of being wise in time."
    --Theodore Roosevelt


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