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Thread: 2016 Presidential Election

  1. #301
    Five-O Diehard Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ma'ake View Post
    Haha, the antipathy for Trump is totally understandable. But he's applying what he learned in that stupid reality TV show impressively.

    Totally different personalities, but when Reagan was running in 1976, most political analysts dismissed him as a lightweight, an actor who hadn't completed college. But he was able to connect with people like nobody had really seen before.
    The show he ultimately lost because he's such a buffoon he can't keep his foot out of his own throat


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  2. #302
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ma'ake View Post
    Haha, the antipathy for Trump is totally understandable. But he's applying what he learned in that stupid reality TV show impressively.

    Totally different personalities, but when Reagan was running in 1976, most political analysts dismissed him as a lightweight, an actor who hadn't completed college. But he was able to connect with people like nobody had really seen before.
    I have never been a Reaganite but Reagan had internally consistent and coherent political convictions, developed over a long period of years. His diaries published after his death show that to be true. Trump, in contrast, has no discernible political convictions. He's spectacularly unfit for the presidency.

    Besides, I consider him a man of low character. I know that sounds odd when speaking of a politician, but I think you know what I mean. Who publicly calls John McCain "loser" for being shot down and captured? Or publicly makes fun of a disabled person? Or makes a menstruation joke about a female journalist? Or writes books bragging about his extramarital affairs -- including those with married women? The guy's a moral, ethical and temperamental train wreck.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  3. #303
    Quote Originally Posted by Applejack View Post
    The right answer to my question is Hillary. If you can't admit she'd be better than Trump that, you are as partisan as can be.
    Was LA pretending to be non-partisan? If you belong to a political party, you are partisan by definition.

    I don't like Cruz, but he's a smart guy and has a platform. I don't like Rubio, he's a lightweight, but I understand why other people do; he's likable. I like Jeb, but apparently I'm the only person on earth that does. Hillary is Hillary; you get a whip smart politician, emphasis on politician. And Bernie is like a lovable uncle who hates the world and has wild ideas about "the man."
    How can someone read that and come out not wanting Bernie? He's the only one for whom "lovable" works.

    Is Rubio really likable?

  4. #304
    Kasich is growing on me quite a bit.

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    “It only ends once. Anything that happens before that is just progress.”

    Well, because he thought it was good sport. Because some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.

  5. #305
    Quote Originally Posted by Applejack View Post
    Trump v Clinton, who do you vote for? No cop out answers allowed.
    Ugh...really? Cruz, Trump and Rubio are all unmitigated disasters, but, the Dems this election are twice the train wreck. Give me the Joe's on the Demo side.....Lieberman or Manchin, and Kasich on the Republican side and we've got ourselves a pretty good field.

    Quote Originally Posted by NorthwestUteFan View Post
    Hillary is perhaps the best-prepared, most qualified candidate, with the most impressive resume since...? Maybe John Adams?.....
    Is this supposed to be some kind of joke? You really don't have to go back far to find a President who was more qualified. Take George 41 -- Served in the military and ended up a war hero, founded his own successful company, Congressman on the House Ways and Means committee, US Ambassador, Envoy to China, CIA Director and Vice President. Side by side it isn't even close. You could also successfully argue even her won husband was more qualified, being AR Attorney General and Governor for 10 years. In fact, any candidate that has actually governed a state could arguably be as qualified, or more so than Hillary. The three candidates mentioned above (Lieberman, Manchin, Kasich) are miles more qualified than Hillary. To say Hillary's the most qualified since Adams is just silly. But, it is the silly season.
    “Children and dogs are as necessary to the welfare of the country as Wall Street and the railroads.” -- Harry S. Truman

    "You never soar so high as when you stoop down to help a child or an animal." -- Jewish Proverb

    "Three-time Pro Bowler Eric Weddle the most versatile, and maybe most intelligent, safety in the game." -- SI, 9/7/15, p. 107.

  6. #306
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    2016 Presidential Election

    Quote Originally Posted by Applejack View Post
    The right answer to my question is Hillary. If you can't admit she'd be better than Trump that, you are as partisan as can be.
    So there's no reason to vote against her other than partisanship? Really? You're blind to her shortcomings?

    Anyway, I'm voting for neither.
    Last edited by LA Ute; 02-18-2016 at 08:37 PM.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  7. #307
    Quote Originally Posted by mUUser View Post


    Is this supposed to be some kind of joke? .
    It was a rhetorical device. I was trying to show how unlike able she can be, regardless whether or not she is a capable leader and administrator.


    A big problem with our current electoral system is we select our candidates based on their ability to campaign. But being an effective campaigner and being an effective administrator are not necessarily related. In fact the two may be entirely separate and non-overlapping skill sets. A person's ability to interact with voters in a soundbite-for-effect setting may actually be detrimental to the same person's skill as a leader and decision-maker.

    ..........

    I get the feeling the wheels are about to come off of the Trump Express. The question is how far-spread will be the devastation? He apparently has found a court in Chicago willing to hear the case of whether Cruz, the half-Cuban, Canadian-born candidate, can even legally run for President.

  8. #308
    Five-O Diehard Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NorthwestUteFan View Post
    It was a rhetorical device. I was trying to show how unlike able she can be, regardless whether or not she is a capable leader and administrator.


    A big problem with our current electoral system is we select our candidates based on their ability to campaign. But being an effective campaigner and being an effective administrator are not necessarily related. In fact the two may be entirely separate and non-overlapping skill sets. A person's ability to interact with voters in a soundbite-for-effect setting may actually be detrimental to the same person's skill as a leader and decision-maker.

    ..........

    I get the feeling the wheels are about to come off of the Trump Express. The question is how far-spread will be the devastation? He apparently has found a court in Chicago willing to hear the case of whether Cruz, the half-Cuban, Canadian-born candidate, can even legally run for President.
    Because the crazies of the political world control our elections candidates are elected on bluster and hot air.

    There's nothing, beyond the next election, to hold the candidate to their word.

    Locally one needs to look no further than Rocky Anderson and Ralph Becker. Both made promises to get endorsements. Both either went back on those promises or ignored them all together once elected. When that was pointed out it was ignored.

    Sadly it seems the US cares more about the ability to talk a good game than the actual results.


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  9. #309
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    So there's no reason to vote against her other than partisanship? Really? You're blind to her shortcomings?

    Anyway, I'm voting for neither.
    No, and I never said such a thing. Hillary is a flawed politician/person and their are a million reasons not to like her.

    But that wasn't my question: Hillary v Trump. Who do you vote for (AND THOSE ARE THE ONLY TWO CHOICES BECAUSE I MAKE THE RULES)?

  10. #310
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Applejack View Post
    No, and I never said such a thing. Hillary is a flawed politician/person and their are a million reasons not to like her.

    But that wasn't my question: Hillary v Trump. Who do you vote for (AND THOSE ARE THE ONLY TWO CHOICES BECAUSE I MAKE THE RULES)?
    Can't I just say I am voting for neither as it would violate my conscience?

    sad-puppy.png

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  11. #311
    Quote Originally Posted by Diehard Ute View Post
    Locally one needs to look no further than Rocky Anderson and Ralph Becker. Both made promises to get endorsements. Both either went back on those promises or ignored them all together once elected.


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    what are you referring to

  12. #312
    Five-O Diehard Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by concerned View Post
    what are you referring to
    Both made all kinds of promises to the various labor groups to get support, then never did what they said they would, or did the exact opposite



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  13. #313
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    Can't I just say I am voting for neither as it would violate my conscience?

    sad-puppy.png
    NO! Choose ye this day...

  14. #314
    If I don't answer my phone tomorrow, it's because I'll have my hands full of caucus. Just leave a message.


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  15. #315
    Quote Originally Posted by Diehard Ute View Post
    Both made all kinds of promises to the various labor groups to get support, then never did what they said they would, or did the exact opposite



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    i you are referring to the police or fire unions in particular, you are wrong at least as to Ralph. Ralph never got their endorsement because he would never agree to their negotiation demands and refused to cave to the unions.

  16. #316
    Five-O Diehard Ute's Avatar
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    2016 Presidential Election

    Quote Originally Posted by concerned View Post
    i you are referring to the police or fire unions in particular, you are wrong at least as to Ralph. Ralph never got their endorsement because he would never agree to their negotiation demands and refused to cave to the unions.
    Guess the view of history all depends on where your information comes from. I'll leave it at that.


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  17. #317
    So will I, esp. if yours comes from the union.

  18. #318
    Five-O Diehard Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by concerned View Post
    So will I, esp. if yours comes from the union.
    As if anything from Becker is better


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  19. #319

  20. #320
    Five-O Diehard Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by concerned View Post
    nope. from the PD.
    Well it all depends on who from the PD at that point in time


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  21. #321
    Quote Originally Posted by Diehard Ute View Post
    Well it all depends on who from the PD at that point in time


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    OK. I agree with that. Truce.

  22. #322
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    I know many here won't like this but I'll share it anyway. Peggy Noonan makes a good point here something here about why Trump appeals to so many people:

    I close with a thought about an aspect of modern leftism that is part of the context here.

    There is something increasingly unappeasable in the left. This is something conservatives and others have come to fear, that progressives now accept no limits. We can’t just have court-ordered legalized abortion across the land, we have to have it up to the point of birth, and taxpayers have to pay for it. It’s not enough to win same-sex marriage, you’ve got to personally approve of it and if you publicly resist you’ll be ruined. It’s not enough that we have publicly funded contraceptives, the nuns have to provide them.

    This unappeasable spirit always turns to the courts to have its way.

    If progressives were wise they would step back, accept their victories, take a breath and turn to the idea of solidifying gains, of heroic patience, of being peaceable.

    Don’t make them bake the cake. Don’t make them accept the progressive replacement for Scalia. Leave the nuns alone.

    Progressives have no idea how fragile it all is. That’s why they feel free to be unappeasable. They don’t know what they’re grinding down.

    They think America has endless give. But America is composed of humans, and they do not have endless give.

    Isn’t that what we’re seeing this year in the political realm? That they don’t have endless give? And we’ll be seeing more of it. people


    I close with a thought about an aspect of modern leftism that is part of the context here.

    There is something increasingly unappeasable in the left. This is something conservatives and others have come to fear, that progressives now accept no limits. We can’t just have court-ordered legalized abortion across the land, we have to have it up to the point of birth, and taxpayers have to pay for it. It’s not enough to win same-sex marriage, you’ve got to personally approve of it and if you publicly resist you’ll be ruined. It’s not enough that we have publicly funded contraceptives, the nuns have to provide them.

    This unappeasable spirit always turns to the courts to have its way.

    If progressives were wise they would step back, accept their victories, take a breath and turn to the idea of solidifying gains, of heroic patience, of being peaceable.

    Don’t make them bake the cake. Don’t make them accept the progressive replacement for Scalia. Leave the nuns alone.

    Progressives have no idea how fragile it all is. That’s why they feel free to be unappeasable. They don’t know what they’re grinding down.

    They think America has endless give. But America is composed of humans, and they do not have endless give.

    Isn’t that what we’re seeing this year in the political realm? That they don’t have endless give? And we’ll be seeing more of it.

    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  23. #323
    Oh please. Her entire premise also applies to the way the Tea Partyists and Religious Right have hijacked the Grand Old Party. The Republican Party is being set upon by territorial warlords who believe they can capture the whole party and wield it at their leisure, but in fact what is happening is a Balkanization of the GOP similar to the death of the Whig Party.

  24. #324
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NorthwestUteFan View Post
    Oh please. Her entire premise also applies to the way the Tea Partyists and Religious Right have hijacked the Grand Old Party. The Republican Party is being set upon by territorial warlords who believe they can capture the whole party and wield it at their leisure, but in fact what is happening is a Balkanization of the GOP similar to the death of the Whig Party.
    I knew you wouldn't like it. But people are scared and worried. Try not to dismiss that; it's reality, I think.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  25. #325
    Lol. Despite what this author says, trump is a republican.

  26. #326
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    I knew you wouldn't like it. But people are scared and worried. Try not to dismiss that; it's reality, I think.
    I didn't say that I didn't like it, just that Peggy Noonan must realize that her old boss (Reagan) would be considered 'too liberal' to have a prayer in a GOP primary today.

  27. #327
    Quote Originally Posted by Applejack View Post
    Lol. Despite what this author says, trump is a republican.
    He certainly has the anti-immigration cred, and the pro-corporation cred, but for some strange reason his strong pro-abortion stance and other seemingly non-Conservative beliefs seem to not phase his supporter base.

  28. #328
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Interesting stuff here.

    Trump: Nemesis Of The GOP

    http://www.theamericanconservative.c...ublican-party/


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    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  29. #329
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    Interesting stuff here.

    Trump: Nemesis Of The GOP

    http://www.theamericanconservative.c...ublican-party/


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    Donald J. Trump is the face of Republicans. Just embrace it!

  30. #330
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NorthwestUteFan View Post
    Donald J. Trump is the face of Republicans. Just embrace it!
    LOL. So who's the face of Democrats? Looks like Sanders so far. Or would you prefer the inveterate liar as your champion?


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    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

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