Yes, and as we all know, one's understanding of the world is directly correlated to the number of firearms one possesses.Originally Posted by Devildog
Yes, and as we all know, one's understanding of the world is directly correlated to the number of firearms one possesses.
I think you are using the term "dork" too loosely. Maybe this will help:
nerd-venn-diagram-20110626-192132 (1).jpg
I'll cop to being a geek or a nerd, but I don't think I could be convicted of being a dork.
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
--Yeats
“True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”
--John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell
You do things your way... and I'll do them my way. Just know... if the shit ever really hits the fan...
It'll probably be the fault of someone who reacts about something they know nothing about without thinking.
Regardless of the reason... It would be subject to individual interpretation anyway...
I think David French has it right:
The Four Key Truths of the WikiLeaks Mess
http://www.nationalreview.com/articl...ng-controversy
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
--Yeats
“True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”
--John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell
So here's part of Trump's statement, "there was absolutely no effect on the outcome of the election including the fact that there was no tampering whatsoever with voting machines. There were attempts to hack the Republican National Committee, but the RNC had strong hacking defenses and the hackers were unsuccessful...."
And here's a piece of the Nat Review "Fourth, there is still no evidence that the Russians changed the outcome of the election. It is true that Julian Assange is anti-American. It’s likely true that the Russians worked to disrupt and influence American public debate, and it’s possibly true that they did so to elect Donald Trump. But it’s still wildly speculative to claim that Russian actions were decisive."
I read the report. It concludes the Russians did not muck with the vote collection or tally. I don't know how many times that needs to be stated before conservatives quit bringing it up. No one I consider sane has alleged they did. It is not at issue.
On the other hand, Trump's statement that the Russians' efforts had "absolutely no effect on the outcome" and NR's "it’s still wildly speculative to claim that Russian actions were decisive" have no basis. I understand their defensiveness - the legitimacy of Trump's election victory is at stake. The facts are that he got enough votes in states where the electoral votes exceeded 270 and the votes were tallied correctly.
The CIA, FBI and NSA report states,The election was extremely close in three swing states. If Clinton had won Pennsylvania (Trump won by 0.73%, 44,292 out of 59 million) and either Wisconsin (1%, 27,257) or Michigan (0.3%, 10,704 out of 4.5 million), then she would have won. To suggest all the Russians efforts were for naught, that all the drip-drip-drip of Clinton email stories, and all the Russian fake news had no effect is ridiculous.We also assess Putin and the Russian Government aspired to help President-elect Trump’s election chances when possible by discrediting Secretary Clinton and publicly contrasting her unfavorably to him. All three agencies agree with this judgment. CIA and FBI have high confidence in this judgment; NSA has moderate confidence.
Since it was so very close, any factor that had any effect swung the election. So yes, Putin's vote for Trump was decisive in the outcome. Decide for yourself if you think Trump's election is a valid.
Last edited by pangloss; 01-06-2017 at 03:56 PM.
"It isn't what we don't know that gives us trouble, it's what we know that ain't so"
- Will Rogers
"Cyberspace is - or can be - a good, friendly and egalitarian place to meet. "
- Douglas Adams
The report also statesIt does not state that Russian attempts to do the same thing to the RNC were not successful, as Trump claims. On the contrary, it says they did hack Republican targets and chose not use the data they obtained. Presumably, because Trump was their horse.Russia collected on some Republican-affiliated targets but did not conduct a comparable disclosure campaign.
"It isn't what we don't know that gives us trouble, it's what we know that ain't so"
- Will Rogers
"Cyberspace is - or can be - a good, friendly and egalitarian place to meet. "
- Douglas Adams
You know the leaks had an effect, because Trump brought them up at very campaign event for several months. At the very least he hoped they would have an effect
Last edited by concerned; 01-06-2017 at 03:54 PM.
If you think Putin has mutual respect for Trump or America you are gravely mistaken.
Cmon, you really like our president bowing to Putin? Trump is his butt-boy.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Last edited by Rocker Ute; 01-07-2017 at 11:20 AM.
You mean just like the guy in the Ft Lauderdale airport today.
Michael gerson in the wapo also had an excellent op ed. Can't li lnk because I am on vacation somewhere warm. Help?
Just to clarify for me - has the bowing already happened, or do we just anticipate that it is going to happen? I mean, Trump isn't even in office yet. We don't know if policies that relate to Putin will change yet, do we?
I, like everyone, think Trump will be a lousy president. But I think we should all wait until he actually does something lousy as president before we post about him anymore.
How's this Trump’s Syria Strategy Would Be a Disaster The president-elect wants to ally with Assad and Russia to fight the Islamic State – but he’s going to end up empowering extremists and causing chaos across the Middle East.
"It isn't what we don't know that gives us trouble, it's what we know that ain't so"
- Will Rogers
"Cyberspace is - or can be - a good, friendly and egalitarian place to meet. "
- Douglas Adams
You're right, it's good. Gerson: Trump is good. Assange helped Trump. Therefore, Assange is good?
"It isn't what we don't know that gives us trouble, it's what we know that ain't so"
- Will Rogers
"Cyberspace is - or can be - a good, friendly and egalitarian place to meet. "
- Douglas Adams
Probably this one: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...=.923079ea369a
edit: I'm a hack.
“To me there is no dishonor in being wrong and learning. There is dishonor in willful ignorance and there is dishonor in disrespect.” James Hatch, former Navy Seal and current Yale student.
Yep that's it.
Interesting breakdown of Trump voters. Kind of surprising. Good stuff for political junkies.
Donald Trump’s Strongest Supporters: A Certain Kind of Democrat
http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/12/31...m.facebook.com
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
--Yeats
“True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”
--John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell
Now that Putin fully has the attention of thoughtful Americans, here's some revealing insight into the Russian world view, after the fall of the Soviet Union:
http://www.politico.com/magazine/sto...ng-game-214589
Warning: It's a long, deep read.
Essentially, the Russian mindset is to seek the decline of the West, through a broad variety of destabilization efforts, of which the US 2016 election hacking is just one (albeit highly successful) effort. Hence, Germany's concern about similar destabilization efforts in their upcoming election.
A key point: After 9-11, NATO and the West pivoted to become more security oriented, and Putin thought Russia might be invited into the Western alliance, but Europeans and the US said "no thanks" because we were still alarmed at just how brutal Putin was in Chechnya.
Putin has since intentionally kept the Russian economy relatively separated, so that Russia can engage in its broader geopolitical goals with minimized economic exposure from retaliatory sanctions.
The overwhelming majority of Americans probably don't know we're in a war with Russia.
The weapons of war in 2017 differ dramatically from the military hardware we all recognize.
Last edited by Ma'ake; 01-07-2017 at 10:22 AM.
This article nails it.
In an ambiguous, complex world, all Americans need to remember these two things:
1. Julian Assange and WikiLeaks are absolutely anti-American. I've been telling my more liberal colleagues this for the past few years. Nothing would please Assange more than the decline of the US.
2. Vladimir Putin and his Russia are absolutely not friends to America. Hopefully, our more conservative citizens can wrap their minds around this.
I would be particularly interested to hear what DevilDog, his marine son, and their social circle think about Assange.
Are you guys really Assange fanboys, now? (Really?)
If this board is the big bang theory, then you are without question stewart the comic book store owner; only around because everyone else takes pity on your pitiful self.
I guess it is a definition of bowing that affects the answer.
1. He has stated on many occasions his admiration for Putin which is a tacit endorsement of the many awful things he is doing.
2. He also has continued to insist that Russians did not try to influence the election, undermining his own intelligence despite evidence that it was directed by Putin himself.
3. He tweeted pre-election that he admired Putin for rebuilding the 'Russian empire' and also stated that Russia and China are better nations than the US right now.
4. Finally and most important, it is believed that Russia hold a significant part of his debt, the amount of which he won't disclose, but it would be a reasonable guess that he is highly leveraged. That would also explain his motivation for and reason to bow to Putin.
Now don't put it past Trump to pivot completely on any of those positions, but right now he has given every signal that he is in Putin's pocket.
Additionally, during the primary debates he sympathized with, or rationalized, put in annexation of Crimea and activitity in the Ukraine. This to me is the most dangerous thing, because Putin may see it as a green light in the future. At the time, I assumed he got this info from mantafort. Tillerson has slammed the sanctions; what happens to those will be very telling
Those tax returns sure would have been nice to have.
https://www.theatlantic.com/amp/article/512327
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Tillerson hated the sanctions because they killed the $500 Billion (with a capital B ) pipeline deal between Exxon and Russia. It will be interesting to see how quickly those sanctions end and work on the pipeline continues.
Having said that, I do think we are much better off establishing a more fair and equitable trade relationship with Russia. We are in a de facto cold war with them still, and anything to avoid escalating conflict against a highly armed enemy with a weakened economy is probably a good thing.
Back to the election....
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/de...hKs6gU.twitterThe last time Congressional Democrats peaceably accepted a GOP victory in the Electoral College was 1988. In 2000, 2004 and 2016, Democrats in Congress objected, tried to object, and generally disrupted the process of certifying the Electoral College vote. They did so with no substantive grounds, instead just for the political theater of it. . . .
This is part of a pattern of a specific species of political norm-smashing where Democrats seem to be leading the way: Refusing to concede when they lose.
Mike Dukakis was the last Democratic presidential nominee to concede on Election Night. Liberal protestors in many states shouted and protested the Electoral College votes last month, without any valid grounds for objection. . . .
When Democrats lose they are a lot slower to concede, it seems. Maybe it’s a deliberate strategy. Maybe it’s a coincidence. Maybe I’m wrong in perceiving this pattern. But I expect this practice to spread, which won’t be good for politics.
I don't think it's intentional but it may be symptomatic of something very unbecoming a great political party. I see the same thing in a lot of the noise being made about 2017's Russian email hacking. I've seen at least one poll saying that a slight majority of Democrats believe the Russians hacked voting machines, or something close to that:
https://www.google.com/amp/amp.daily...?client=safari
Don't get me wrong -- I think it's outrageous that a foreign government was hacking a major political party's emails and we need to investigate that. What I don't like (despite my antipathy for Trump) is the ongoing effort to delegitimize him as POTUS. That may help Democrats politically but it doesn't help the country, especially in foreign policy. He won the election. That needs to be accepted and then we can fight over policy. I see efforts to delegitimize Trump the same way I saw birther nonsense about Obama -- it's a distraction, designed to weaken a duly elected president. (Yes, I know Trump spouted birther nonsense at one time and I see the irony.)
Last edited by LA Ute; 01-07-2017 at 03:01 PM.
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
--Yeats
“True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”
--John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell
The defensiveness of Trump and his minions about the Russians has hurt his legitimacy more than anything a democrat has said. If he had said something simple like 'it needs to be fully investigated' and then just shut up it would have helped him. When the nitwit defends Putin, denies it occurred, turns down intel briefings and denigrates the US intelligence community it doesn't look good.
And besides, his presidency is not legitimate. He was born in Uzbekistan.
Last edited by pangloss; 01-07-2017 at 03:40 PM.
"It isn't what we don't know that gives us trouble, it's what we know that ain't so"
- Will Rogers
"Cyberspace is - or can be - a good, friendly and egalitarian place to meet. "
- Douglas Adams
Russia's economy is about the size of Italy's. It has oil, a pretty good aerospace & defense industry, aerospace technology, and a lot of nukes. US - Russia trade is negligible. They actively work to screw up the EU, NATO and every other US alliance.
The Russian government lacks any sense of decency. Just to calibrate Putin's immorality, read this article. He is a blood thirsty murderer. He kills his own people for political gain.Finally, We Know About the Moscow Bombings
Last edited by pangloss; 01-07-2017 at 05:35 PM.
"It isn't what we don't know that gives us trouble, it's what we know that ain't so"
- Will Rogers
"Cyberspace is - or can be - a good, friendly and egalitarian place to meet. "
- Douglas Adams
None of this happened in a bvacuum. Trump was dealing with his own drip-drip-drip from the thousand stupid things he said weekly to charges he was a sexual predator. But Trump won, therefore the efforts of the media and other anti-Trumpsters were not decisive.
"It'd be nice to please everyone but I thought it would be more interesting to have a point of view." -- Oscar Levant
What baffles me is that, I am reasonably certain, conservatives understood #2 when Obama was heard over a hot mike saying he would be more flexible regarding his Russian policy after the 2012 election. So, now that a different man is about to become president, suddenly the Russians have changed?
Politics frequently leads people to do and say dumb things they would not ordinarily do or say.
"It'd be nice to please everyone but I thought it would be more interesting to have a point of view." -- Oscar Levant
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote