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Thread: What to do About ISIS?

  1. #151
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    What do you all think? Much of this resonates with me. Then again....

    I disagree. We are presently unable to control and prevent the perpetrators of these heinous acts and those who support them as we balance civil liberties, privacy, etc. with security/safety. We can and should do our best to discourage those among us who would retaliate indiscriminately against a particular population based on any emotion (anger/hate). I am not fearful of anger/rhetoric directed at the actual perpetrators of these heinous actions and those who sponsor them. I do fear, however, that some of those who fan the flames through expressions of anger and hate at those other than the direct participants and those who sponsor them in times like these really don't care whether their anger actually leads to any meaningful action other than satisfying their own emotions and enciting themselves and others to engage and endanger people who are not part of the problem. I don't think this makes us safer in the short or longterm. During the campaign, Trump said we should kill the terrorists and their families. I'm opposed to that thinking and policy. I'm also opposed to simply carpet bombing the entire middle east until nothing exists to demolish those who are engaged in these actions. I'm opposed to those who cry for a "final solution" against Islam.

    We need to be smarter, not angrier.

  2. #152
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    What do you all think? Much of this resonates with me. Then again....

    I don't think this resonates with you. http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/‘fi...Qgo?li=BBnbcA1

  3. #153
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    What to do About ISIS?

    Quote Originally Posted by UTEopia View Post
    I don't think this resonates with you. http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/‘fi...Qgo?li=BBnbcA1
    I said "much" of that Brendan O'Neil op-ed resonates with me, and I expressed doubt about it ["but..."],and I asked what others here thought. You're the only one to respond so far, and you did so thoughtfully. Thanks for that.

    There's a huge difference between wondering whether, on the one hand, we should be less passive about terrorist attacks, and should instead be a little more angry and seek to annihilate the perpetrators in some intelligent way; and, on the other hand, supporting, accepting or excusing the mindless violent attack on innocent people reported in the story you linked. So of course that one did not resonate with me. I'll just leave it at that.
    Last edited by LA Ute; 05-28-2017 at 05:20 PM.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  4. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by UTEopia View Post
    I don't think this resonates with you. http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/‘fi...Qgo?li=BBnbcA1
    You are trying to use one isolated, probably mental health related incident to compare to ISIS and the planned and premeditated terror they conduct. Appeasement. Pure and simple appeasement. Rationalized and justified appeasement.

    The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.

    I understand that you mean well... but this is exactly how not to handle terrorism.

  5. #155
    Quote Originally Posted by Devildog View Post
    You are trying to use one isolated, probably mental health related incident to compare to ISIS and the planned and premeditated terror they conduct. Appeasement. Pure and simple appeasement. Rationalized and justified appeasement.

    The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.

    I understand that you mean well... but this is exactly how not to handle terrorism.
    Thank you for replying in a respectful manner. This might have been your best post ever

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    "Be a philosopher. A man can compromise to gain a point. It has become apparent that a man can, within limits, follow his inclinations within the arms of the Church if he does so discreetly." - The Walking Drum

    "And here’s what life comes down to—not how many years you live, but how many of those years are filled with bullshit that doesn’t amount to anything to satisfy the requirements of some dickhead you’ll never get the pleasure of punching in the face." – Adam Carolla

  6. #156
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    There Is No Intelligence Solution to Britain’s Rivers of Blood

    After three jihadist attacks in as many months, the United Kingdom is facing a protracted insurgency—not mere terrorism

    http://observer.com/2017/06/london-b...k-british-m15/

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  7. #157
    ISIS Is on Its Heels, but is Fighting to the Death:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/02/w...raq-fight.html
    "It'd be nice to please everyone but I thought it would be more interesting to have a point of view." -- Oscar Levant

  8. #158
    Quote Originally Posted by USS Utah View Post
    ISIS Is on Its Heels, but is Fighting to the Death:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/02/w...raq-fight.html
    Reading that article reminded me of when Bill Maher's show got cancelled after he said about the 9-11 hijackers that it was dumb to call them cowards.

    We drop the MOAB on a ISIS cave/tunnel complex in Afghanistan, and they've moved back in. Faith in action? This transcends over to religion, but how do the more informed religionists of today view this kind of insanity? Being led by Satan, or just plain nuts?

  9. #159
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    What to do About ISIS?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ma'ake View Post
    Reading that article reminded me of when Bill Maher's show got cancelled after he said about the 9-11 hijackers that it was dumb to call them cowards.

    We drop the MOAB on a ISIS cave/tunnel complex in Afghanistan, and they've moved back in. Faith in action? This transcends over to religion, but how do the more informed religionists of today view this kind of insanity? Being led by Satan, or just plain nuts?
    Seems to me it is a mixed bag. It includes a lot of fanaticism, probably some sincere religious beliefs for some of the perpetrators, and a lot of lust for power. There's not a scintilla of it that I, as a religious person, would call righteous. On a purely ethical level, I would not call any of it honorable either. By and large ISIS is an army of monsters.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  10. #160
    Quote Originally Posted by Ma'ake View Post
    Reading that article reminded me of when Bill Maher's show got cancelled after he said about the 9-11 hijackers that it was dumb to call them cowards.

    We drop the MOAB on a ISIS cave/tunnel complex in Afghanistan, and they've moved back in. Faith in action? This transcends over to religion, but how do the more informed religionists of today view this kind of insanity? Being led by Satan, or just plain nuts?

    I thought of just one word: Götterdämmerung

    The word is often used in reference to the orgy of self-destruction that coincided with the fall of Nazi Germany.
    "It'd be nice to please everyone but I thought it would be more interesting to have a point of view." -- Oscar Levant

  11. #161
    Administrator U-Ute's Avatar
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    Because ISIS is fighting in an "infinite game" where we think it is a "finite game" with a structured set of rules of "who won?"


  12. #162
    The Niger incident reveals that al Qaeda / ISIS are taking a "ball of mercury" approach to being defeated in their geographic caliphate in Syria / Iraq.

    Trump announces a looser standard for using drones, extending the remote control warfare mode started under Bush, expanded under Obama. (It insulates us from the immediate blood cost of warfare, but maybe it's like warfare using credit cards with extravagant initial offers. The crows ain't anywhere near coming home to roost... but they'll be coming, in ways that may not even be warfare.)

    As we spread troops less densely and more broadly in the muslim world, it's clear a trap is being set. US over-reacts by raining death from above, in increasingly greater geographic areas, at the same time Trump alienates historic allies and pulls us out of economic agreements and environmental conventions.

    I'm seeing more & more accounts by Utahns, who travel to Europe and get very sobering reactions of concern from our friends about the direction the US is taking.

  13. #163
    Administrator U-Ute's Avatar
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    An interesting side I have never heard about: Muslim hacktavists taking down ISIS's internet capabilities.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-a8049771.html

  14. #164
    Raqqa in Ruins, ISIS in Retreat:

    http://time.com/raqqa-ruins-isis-retreat/
    "It'd be nice to please everyone but I thought it would be more interesting to have a point of view." -- Oscar Levant

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