Pre-preseason thread: 2016 football

[LA Ute]

Whitt deserves plenty of criticism for the offensive performance. The results are what they are. I am also not making excuses. There are valid criticisms for the offensive performance, and I think I will start a thread to discuss what I see as the underlying issues.

But the primary criticisms that you and others level at him, specifically

A)moving special talent off the offense because it benefits the defense to the detriment to the team as a whole,

I don't think this criticism is a fair or accurate criticism of Whit. As I've said, I was once suspicious that this was happening but am not any longer.

B)that quarterback is a mess because of moving them to defense

Ditto (A) above. I don't think I've ever said this. I'm not sure how widespread this view really is. It is kind of a ridiculous idea, I think. Would Kruger have been better at QB than at DE? Could Devonte Christopher have played QB? I don't think so. I've said that if Chase Hansen can be an NFL-quality safety but only an average PAC-12 QB, he should play safety.

C) that he changes OC's on a whim,

I don't think he has done this. I think that he is either the unluckiest HC we've ever seen when it comes to hiring OCs, or that he has simply bungled that aspect of his job. Maybe it's both. It certainly looks like a mess and the offensive results stink. When I add those facts -- and that's what I think they are -- to Whit's passion for defense and the undeniably superb defenses he's been able to put together, I do wonder if he doesn't need to "get religion" about the offense. He's a very smart guy. He can figure this out. It's his job.

These points have been ignorantly repeated enough times by many, including you, that they have taken on a life of their own, and are now deemed "facts" by ignorant fans.

Maybe. The above is what I think about (A), (B) and (C). I think a lot of knowledgeable fans, who care a lot about the program, and who are critical of his approach to offense think the same way.

[sancho]

and are now deemed "facts"

The sad thing is that once these kinds of "facts" are established, the reputation can be hard to shake. I don't know the extent to which it hurts us with recruits, but it can't be a good thing. And it can be a self-fulfilling prophecy in a way.

[LA Ute]

The sad thing is that once these kinds of "facts" are established, the reputation can be hard to shake. I don't know the extent to which it hurts us with recruits, but it can't be a good thing. And it can be a self-fulfilling prophecy in a way.

I'm not sure I get this. The discussion began with me wondering if Huntley is big enough to play QB (a question that other P5 schools apparently also asked) and now we're talking about fans hurting the program by talking about the head coach's well-known struggles with developing a successful offense.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[sancho]

I'm not sure I get this. The discussion began with me wondering if Huntley is big enough to play QB (a question that other P5 schools apparently also asked) and now we're talking about fans hurting the program by talking about the head coach's well-known struggles with developing a successful offense.

With the size question answered, we moved on.

[LA Ute]

Troy Williams interview on a SLC sports talk station:

http://kfanav.s3.amazonaws.com/20151...lliams-WEB.mp3



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Ma'ake]

Troy Williams interview on a SLC sports talk station:

Troy's interview was pretty good, but nothing spectacular, mostly just "player-speak".

I thought his JC and HS OC's interview was far better, more revealing. He coached him in both HS and JC, which is pretty unusual, and those are lower levels of football, but a couple of things stood out:

1. Williams is one of those hyper-competitors who wants to win in everything, from basketball, to tiddly winks, to rock-paper-scissors. The stories we hear about Michael Jordan having this personality type, the card games on airplanes... we all know what happened in the late 90s vs the Jazz. MJ and Kobe had a will to win that elevated them above their talent level.

Example: Williams threw 6 first half TDs in their JC championship game this year, and told his coach he was going to throw 10 for the game, when the coach had to settle him down, add some sanity. He desperately wants to get revenge against UW and show everyone in the PAC-12 what he can do.

This could either be really good, or it could go bad.

2. When asked to name Williams' best football attribute, his OC said he can instinctively see through what defenses are trying to do to disguise their scheme. He knows where to go with the pass. His OC said he quickly can see that while it looks like a game of chess, underneath it's really a game of checkers. One of things that took Wilson a while to develop was reading defenses.

Massive difference between JC ball and the PAC-12, but those are some interesting ingredients. We'll see.

I'm also keen to see how Brandon Cox emerges. A-Rod told me when BC was a freshman to keep an eye on him.

[concerned]

Just heard Doman on the radio, saying he thinks it will be hard for Utah to improve offensively because of the culture. He said he listened to KW's post game interview, and that he thinks it is really hard for the offensive staff (identified ARod by name) to do their jobs because KW does not let the offense play opportunisticly. Said the defense and special teams both play to be opportunistic, but the offense is the opposite. He was referring to KW's comment that he shut down the offense when we were up 35-0, and threw out the game plan, but said that is indicative of the general philosophy.

Said it was obvious from the first snap that there is a talent and athleticism difference between the U and the Y, esp. Utah's defensive players. Said Utah should have 3 or 4 qbs on the roster every year who can play the position, but doesnt. Said we should have receivers who are as skilled and athletic as our db's but we dont. Said Utah needs to upgrade on offense as it has on defense.

Said it will be difficult to improve the offense or recruit the skill players we need unless the culture changes. Said that will be hard going forward. FWIW.

(Also said he expect Sitake to bring a new toughness to the Y, especially in the trenches.)

[DrumNFeather]

Just heard Doman on the radio, saying he thinks it will be hard for Utah to improve offensively because of the culture. He said he listened to KW's post game interview, and that he thinks it is really hard for the offensive staff (identified ARod by name) to do their jobs because KW does not let the offense play opportunisticly. Said the defense and special teams both play to be opportunistic, but the offense is the opposite. He was referring to KW's comment that he shut down the offense when we were up 35-0, and threw out the game plan, but said that is indicative of the general philosophy.

Said it was obvious from the first snap that there is a talent and athleticism difference between the U and the Y, esp. Utah's defensive players. Said Utah should have 3 or 4 qbs on the roster every year who can play the position, but doesnt. Said we should have receivers who are as skilled and athletic as our db's but we dont. Said Utah needs to upgrade on offense as it has on defense.

Said it will be difficult to improve the offense or recruit the skill players we need unless the culture changes. Said that will be hard going forward. FWIW.

(Also said he expect Sitake to bring a new toughness to the Y, especially in the trenches.)

Is it too cynical of me to think that Doman might be lobbying for a job there a little bit?

[UtahsMrSports]

Is it too cynical of me to think that Doman might be lobbying for a job there a little bit?

For the last two years, Doman has all but come out and asked for a job at the U with these weekly interviews on the zone. Almost every single week.

[concerned]

Is it too cynical of me to think that Doman might be lobbying for a job there a little bit?

From the way he was talking, sounded as though he did not think that being an offensive coach at the U was an ideal career move, but beggars cant be choosers I suppose.

[sancho]

Just heard Doman on the radio, saying he thinks it will be hard for Utah to improve offensively because of the culture. He said he listened to KW's post game interview, and that he thinks it is really hard for the offensive staff (identified ARod by name) to do their jobs because KW does not let the offense play opportunisticly. Said the defense and special teams both play to be opportunistic, but the offense is the opposite. He was referring to KW's comment that he shut down the offense when we were up 35-0, and threw out the game plan, but said that is indicative of the general philosophy.

Said it was obvious from the first snap that there is a talent and athleticism difference between the U and the Y, esp. Utah's defensive players. Said Utah should have 3 or 4 qbs on the roster every year who can play the position, but doesnt. Said we should have receivers who are as skilled and athletic as our db's but we dont. Said Utah needs to upgrade on offense as it has on defense.

Said it will be difficult to improve the offense or recruit the skill players we need unless the culture changes. Said that will be hard going forward. FWIW.

(Also said he expect Sitake to bring a new toughness to the Y, especially in the trenches.)

I feel like Doman just quoted word for word the rantings of about a dozen different utefans posters. I don't see any original insight there that hasn't been tossed around regularly for the past two years. Maybe that means it's correct. I think it's just become an accepted narrative.

I do agree that it will be tough to improve the offense. We have an identity now, and it's tough to break out of that kind of thing.

When a team has a 35-0 lead, there are only two possible ways to lose the game: (1) turnovers or (2) complete failure of the offense to get any first downs at all. Based on the game to that point (Joe Williams 10 yard run on his first carry, converting a 4th and 1, punching in a 1st and goal, Wilson with a 20 yard TD scramble), it seemed next to impossible that we would completely fail to move the ball. Losing the game on turnovers seemed much more likely. I can't blame them for trying to run time off the clock. What I don't get - and this goes way beyond Utah - is why it's so hard to turn the switch back on once it has been turned off. Of course, in the end, we did get enough first downs to run out the clock, especially on the last two possessions of the game.

Does anyone feel like BYU has been soft in the trenches? Haven't run defense and offensive line play been the lone bright spots for BYU over the past few years?

[concerned]

I feel like Doman just quoted word for word the rantings of about a dozen different utefans posters. I don't see any original insight there that hasn't been tossed around regularly for the past two years. Maybe that means it's correct. I think it's just become an accepted narrative.

Once it becomes the accepted narrative, how to recruit skill players to play in that offense. That is the issue to me. Perception becomes or is reality.

[NorthwestUteFan]

My point is McCoy was solid in '94, Alex had a stellar year and a half from '03 through '04, and BJ had some success in '04, was injured in '05/redshirted '06, was decent in '07, and was great in '08. Jordan Wynn/Terence Cain were decent enough in 2009 (esp the bowl game) and into 2010, but injuries

In between we had a lot of bad QB play. There is a huge gap of 8 years between McCoy and Alex, and a few dropoff years between Alex and BJ (although Brett Ratliff had his moments).

Travis Wilson hasn't been our most prolific qb and has made hus share of mistakes along the way, but on the last football game of his career on Saturday he will show us what he can do to a G5 Defense.

[UtahsMrSports]

Manning is transferring. Good luck to him.

Whenever i think of him, ill remember how low rated former morning host Monty was trying to convince everyone that conor was hands down our best option.

[DrumNFeather]

Manning is transferring. Good luck to him.

Whenever i think of him, ill remember how low rated former morning host Monty was trying to convince everyone that conor was hands down our best option.

Yeah, hopefully he's able to go do what Brett Elliot did somewhere else.

[LA Ute]

I keep hearing that Kyle has a hands-off approach to the offensive design (although it looks like he does make the major strategic in-game decisions). Maybe he needs to get more involved in designing the offense. He's rightly getting blamed for his subordinates' failures, so why not get deeper into the overall offensive strategy and identity? Just wondering, and admittedly from a low information and knowledge base.

BTW, did Kyle really say that after we got the 35-0 lead, he decided to throw the Vegas Bowl offensive game plan out the window and go conservative?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Diehard Ute]

Scalley just tweeted he's 'coming back for more' and is looking forward to another year with Pease, Shah and Ena.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[sancho]

Stubbelfield not returning.

Utah Twitter wants Guy Holiday from Provo.

In the tradition of taking BYU people for our coaching positions, how about Austin Collie. Heck of a wr, maybe he can tell our guys the secret to getting open.

[Diehard Ute]

Stubbelfield not returning.

Utah Twitter wants Guy Holiday from Provo.

In the tradition of taking BYU people for our coaching positions, how about Austin Collie. Heck of a wr, maybe he can tell our guys the secret to getting open.

Guessing we hire a QB coach. A Rod goes back to WR


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[sancho]

Guessing we hire a QB coach. A Rod goes back to WR

I'd rather keep Collie with the wrs, but I guess we could give him a go with the qbs.

[LA Ute]

Guessing we hire a QB coach. A Rod goes back to WR


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Great minds....

[concerned]

Great minds....

In the spirit of patting myself on the back, I posted this a couple of weeks ago.

[sancho]

In the spirit of patting myself on the back, I posted this a couple of weeks ago.

As the score pick champion, I salute you.

[LA Ute]

In the spirit of patting myself on the back, I posted this a couple of weeks ago.

I offer here proof of your idea infringement:

http://www.utahby5.com/showthread.ph...ll=1#post66910

As for me, I stole the idea fair and square from Swinney.

[mpfunk]

In the spirit of patting myself on the back, I posted this a couple of weeks ago.

So did I.

[LA Ute]

Stubbelfield not returning.

Utah Twitter wants Guy Holiday from Provo.

In the tradition of taking BYU people for our coaching positions, how about Austin Collie. Heck of a wr, maybe he can tell our guys the secret to getting open.

Are you kidding? The secret is living right on and off the field. That's what makes magic happen.

I do applaud the idea of a new WR coach. Why not make A-Rod the WR coach -- he actually played that position in college -- and hire someone new to be the QB coach? Then we might end up with someone effective at both coaching positions.

[Dwight Schr-Ute]

Also, it appears the defense will be returning full strength.

https://twitter.com/safetypride/stat...01690065420288


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[NorthwestUteFan]

What about hiring Ed Lamb away from SUU? He did a heck of a job grooming Brad Sorensen at QB.

[sancho]

What about hiring Ed Lamb away from SUU? He did a heck of a job grooming Brad Sorensen at QB.

I don't know either of those two names, but I'm in.

[concerned]

What about hiring Ed Lamb away from SUU? He did a heck of a job grooming Brad Sorensen at QB.

Rumor is byu is hiring him