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Thread: An officer down in my neighborhood

  1. #61
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dwight Schr-Ute View Post
    Kudos Diehard and the rest of SLPD. Now if we can just keep the bad guys from shooting cops, we'd be golden.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/...ushpmg00000009
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  2. #62
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    This is a very interesting and persuasive analysis of the Philando Castile shooting:

    The Unwritten Law That Helps Bad Cops Go Free
    Last edited by LA Ute; 06-21-2017 at 05:05 PM.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell



  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    This is a very interesting and persuasive analysis of the Philando Castile shooting:

    The Unwritten Law That Helps Bad Cops Go Free
    I am admittedly ignorant on this subject, but I have a few thoughts after watching the video.

    -Why does the officer unload a good portion, if not all, of his clip? I know its a thin line in a brief moment and anything can mean life and death but even then seems excessive.
    -I have not heard anyone talk about this, but does the girlfriend seem just a little too calm here? I mean, within 30 seconds, she has facebook live going and while certainly upset, doesn't seem to be out of sorts mentally. I am not making any suggestions, I just find it odd.

    Curious to know from those who have experience how this kind of stuff should be/is normally handled.

  4. #64
    Motorboatin' SOB Devildog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UtahsMrSports View Post
    I am admittedly ignorant on this subject, but I have a few thoughts after watching the video.

    -Why does the officer unload a good portion, if not all, of his clip? I know its a thin line in a brief moment and anything can mean life and death but even then seems excessive.
    -I have not heard anyone talk about this, but does the girlfriend seem just a little too calm here? I mean, within 30 seconds, she has facebook live going and while certainly upset, doesn't seem to be out of sorts mentally. I am not making any suggestions, I just find it odd.

    Curious to know from those who have experience how this kind of stuff should be/is normally handled.
    Well... it's not a clip. It's a magazine. So if you don't even recognize the basic terminology involved, you will struggle when it gets complex... Lets just agree you are ignorant on the subject.
    "We should remember that one man is much the same as another, and that he is best who is trained in the severest school."
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    "Study strategy over the years and achieve the spirit of the warrior. Today is victory over yourself of yesterday; tomorrow is your victory over lesser men."
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  5. #65
    Motorboatin' SOB Devildog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    This is a very interesting and persuasive analysis of the Philando Castile shooting:

    The Unwritten Law That Helps Bad Cops Go Free
    I read it. Easy to sit back and judge. Try it yourself counselor... get it wrong and you are dead. Complex variables, one second to decide. Humans are humans. Maybe years of education beats training for reality... I doubt it though.
    Last edited by Devildog; 06-22-2017 at 11:37 AM.
    "We should remember that one man is much the same as another, and that he is best who is trained in the severest school."
    -Thucydides


    "Study strategy over the years and achieve the spirit of the warrior. Today is victory over yourself of yesterday; tomorrow is your victory over lesser men."
    -Miyamoto Musashi

    Si vis pacem, para bellum

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Devildog View Post
    Well... it's not a clip. It's a magazine. So if you don't even recognize the basic terminology involved, you will struggle when it gets complex... Lets just agree you are ignorant on the subject.
    This is from a guy who claimed to be in the Military and got operations in Afghanistan and Iraq mixed up?

    Thank you for bringing your insight to the discussion. As always, this board is better because of you, Bill Nye the Science Guy.

  7. #67
    Motorboatin' SOB Devildog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UtahsMrSports View Post
    This is from a guy who claimed to be in the Military and got operations in Afghanistan and Iraq mixed up?
    And there it is. You buy anything you are sold.
    "We should remember that one man is much the same as another, and that he is best who is trained in the severest school."
    -Thucydides


    "Study strategy over the years and achieve the spirit of the warrior. Today is victory over yourself of yesterday; tomorrow is your victory over lesser men."
    -Miyamoto Musashi

    Si vis pacem, para bellum

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by UtahsMrSports View Post
    I am admittedly ignorant on this subject, but I have a few thoughts after watching the video.

    -Why does the officer unload a good portion, if not all, of his clip? I know its a thin line in a brief moment and anything can mean life and death but even then seems excessive.
    -I have not heard anyone talk about this, but does the girlfriend seem just a little too calm here? I mean, within 30 seconds, she has facebook live going and while certainly upset, doesn't seem to be out of sorts mentally. I am not making any suggestions, I just find it odd.

    Curious to know from those who have experience how this kind of stuff should be/is normally handled.
    For most departments 7 rounds isn't even half of a magazine. Most departments issue Glock 17's. A magazine holds 17 rounds with an 18th in the chamber.

    Round count in a shooting is something that's often misunderstood.

    The average shooter can fire 3 or so rounds a second. The brain takes time to recognize the threat has stopped and then there is time to send the signal to the hands to stop.

    Even in sterile testing conditions most officers will fire at least one more round after a stop stimulus is given, some 2 or 3.

    The Force Science Institute has done some really great research on these kinds of things. There are lots of factors involved in any police encounter, some are just physiological things that can't be changed.

    http://www.forcescience.org/fsnews/144.html


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  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by Devildog View Post
    Well... it's not a clip. It's a magazine. So if you don't even recognize the basic terminology involved, you will struggle when it gets complex... Lets just agree you are ignorant on the subject.
    Geez DD, lately all you want to do is point out other people's weaknesses, and assert your superiority. Mr. admitted he was ignorant, and asked questions. All you did was point out a minor semantics issue, and act all superior. It gets tiresome.
    Dyslexics of the world, untie!

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by UtahsMrSports View Post
    I am admittedly ignorant on this subject, but I have a few thoughts after watching the video.

    -Why does the officer unload a good portion, if not all, of his clip? I know its a thin line in a brief moment and anything can mean life and death but even then seems excessive.
    -I have not heard anyone talk about this, but does the girlfriend seem just a little too calm here? I mean, within 30 seconds, she has facebook live going and while certainly upset, doesn't seem to be out of sorts mentally. I am not making any suggestions, I just find it odd.

    Curious to know from those who have experience how this kind of stuff should be/is normally handled.
    Well, for starters, she just witnessed what happened to her calm, polite boyfriend in a matter of 5 seconds. Said overreacting was still yelling, swearing and pointing a gun in her face. It's not a stretch to say that staying calm was her only chance of survival. The fact that in these circumstances, she's still managing to punctuate each exchange with "sir" impresses me beyond words.

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by chrisrenrut View Post
    geez dd, lately all you want to do is point out other people's weaknesses, and assert your superiority. Mr. Admitted he was ignorant, and asked questions. All you did was point out a minor semantics issue, and act all superior. It gets tiresome.
    lol.

  12. #72
    I can't imagine being put in these sort of situations. My observation is that friends I have in law enforcement have a pretty dim view of society in general and that is because all they deal with all day is the dregs of society. That factor alone has to play into how an officer reacts... they believe someone is trying to hurt them because often people are. So I'm not saying Philando did anything wrong, but we also see through a different lens than an officer typically does.

    Tragic no matter how you slice it.

    One other thing about his wife acting calm at the time. A few years back I was riding my bike down Millcreek Canyon and was stopped at the light at the base of the canyon and Wasatch Blvd. A VW Scirocco was traveling south through the intersection going full speed, a lady in a Toyota turned left in front of her before she even could react to brake or brace or anything. Old car, no airbags or other safety features, her face went full speed into the steering wheel.

    I dropped my bike, ran up to her and put compression on the wound on her head that was squirting blood everywhere. It is quite the sensation to have someone's warm blood pouring over your hands like that. We were able to slow the bleeding, the fire station was right there and so help came fast and my understand was she lived. The police came and took a report, I put my bike gloves in a bag and washed my hands, looked at the blood all over my jersey and kind of shrugged and went to get my bike to go home. About two minutes down the road I started to shake so bad I had to stop riding and sit down and process for a bit. The reality of what had just happened finally hit (and at the time I didn't think she was going to live, it felt like she had lost a TON of blood).

    Point is, in situations that traumatic you can't judge how you'll react. I remember when I was trying to help the lady the other lady driving the car was in hysterics screaming and she kept trying to get me to agree with her that it was the injured lady's fault. I finally to get out of my face on less than nice terms. Her reaction was also not seemingly appropriate for the situation in the other direction.

  13. #73
    Motorboatin' SOB Devildog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chrisrenrut View Post
    Geez DD, lately all you want to do is point out other people's weaknesses, and assert your superiority. Mr. admitted he was ignorant, and asked questions. All you did was point out a minor semantics issue, and act all superior. It gets tiresome.
    Did you completely miss the point where he came at me?
    "We should remember that one man is much the same as another, and that he is best who is trained in the severest school."
    -Thucydides


    "Study strategy over the years and achieve the spirit of the warrior. Today is victory over yourself of yesterday; tomorrow is your victory over lesser men."
    -Miyamoto Musashi

    Si vis pacem, para bellum

  14. #74
    The article is very disturbing, but it's reality.

    I'm not going to share this article with my wife and sons. They will almost certainly deal with more DWB incidents, but if they haven't read this article, they're less likely to be freaked out by being pulled over, which in turn could freak out the officer, which conceivably might escalate to... I don't even want to think about it.

    The African American community knows about these kinds of incidents well, and word travels, which is how you have perfectly innocent people pulled over, but panic and take off on a high-speed chase, which results in them going to prison, at best. I've heard about these panic reactions and thought "if you would have just relaxed and complied, you would have been fine", but I would have never thought my wife and kids would experience DWB pullovers... here in Utah.

    Even after being married for 30 years to a "sista", I learn new things on racial topics I would have never considered, before. For many, many African Americans, these verdicts exonerating the police - in what appear to be clear-cut situations - translates into a rational fear that if they're pulled over, for whatever reason, their life may be about to end. That's seriously bad, on multiple levels.

    (Just as Diehard and others accurately describe the mind's reaction in high stress situations, many good, decent people have racist "inklings" pop up in their minds, nature's signal that "this person is different - beware!".)

    But hopefully... hopefully... articles like this can help most other Americans understand that the Black Lives Matter movement is not an irrational, unreasonable group of reverse-racists who only want to cause problems, or get free stuff from the government.
    Last edited by Ma'ake; 06-24-2017 at 08:16 AM.

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by Devildog View Post
    Did you completely miss the point where he came at me?
    i must have. I didn't see anywhere in his original message where he "came at you".

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahsMrSports View Post
    I am admittedly ignorant on this subject, but I have a few thoughts after watching the video.

    -Why does the officer unload a good portion, if not all, of his clip? I know its a thin line in a brief moment and anything can mean life and death but even then seems excessive.
    -I have not heard anyone talk about this, but does the girlfriend seem just a little too calm here? I mean, within 30 seconds, she has facebook live going and while certainly upset, doesn't seem to be out of sorts mentally. I am not making any suggestions, I just find it odd.

    Curious to know from those who have experience how this kind of stuff should be/is normally handled.
    Last edited by chrisrenrut; 06-24-2017 at 11:03 AM.
    Dyslexics of the world, untie!

  16. #76
    Throw the book at this scum sucking loser......

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