Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123
Results 61 to 84 of 84

Thread: National Economics: Keynes or Hayek? Or something else?

  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by mUUser View Post
    May I ask what was your field of study and where did you go to rack up that kind of debt?
    If I had to guess, I would say pharmacist.

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by Utah View Post
    Nice story. It isn't reality anymore. I graduated from Utah in 2006 with zero debt as well. It was $6,000 a year to go to Utah then.

    It is now $16,000 a year for schooling. That's almost three times as much. Your story is exactly what I am talking about. Your experience isn't reality anymore.

    Also, with $300,000 in debt and a salary of $105,000, after taxes and student loan payments, you are left with about $45,000.

    The country does not "OWE" anyone anything. BUT, why was ok for you to go to school for as cheap as you did, when it is now almost three times more expensive? Do you not see a problem there?

    So, you say the Waltons pay their fare share when their taxes are <15%? And Scratch pays 29%? And Scratch uses a heck of a lot less public resources than the Waltons do?
    https://financialaid.utah.edu/paying...llege/cost.php

    Tuition at the u of 9k a year.

    Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk
    "Be a philosopher. A man can compromise to gain a point. It has become apparent that a man can, within limits, follow his inclinations within the arms of the Church if he does so discreetly." - The Walking Drum

    "And here’s what life comes down to—not how many years you live, but how many of those years are filled with bullshit that doesn’t amount to anything to satisfy the requirements of some dickhead you’ll never get the pleasure of punching in the face." – Adam Carolla

  3. #63
    My neighborhood has a few duplexes and an small apartment building that attract a lot of newlyweds students.

    Utah talks about things being different and I agree. A lot of these students coming through don't work, live quite well, and focus just on school. I've had a few conversations where they'll be a bit incredulous if you ask if they are working and will say, "I just need to focus on school, I don't need the extra stress..."

    Whereas when I was in school (not really that long ago - 20 years) everybody I knew except the kids of very rich parents worked while going to school or had a summer job. Most of us lived pretty modestly and didn't rack up the debt.

    Now I would say less that 20% work at all. So yeah, no wonder you racked up debt.

    A lot of kids today are expecting to make a ton out of school and don't want to climb the ladder. Two Utes story is pretty true to life... you work hard and pay your dues, the Audi comes later. Why does anyone need a $30k car out of college?

    We were hiring an entry level accounting position. Had a bunch of dime-a-dozen recent grads come through applying. One kid we interviewed from BYU, when told his entry level salary commiserate with his experience turned his nose up and said, "Good luck finding anyone not illegal to take that pay...".

    We did, he contacted us a month later asking if the position was still open.

    I'm with two Utes, get a good education and work hard and you will be successful, or have a great chance at it. Don't get an education and your chances go down dramatically.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Last edited by Rocker Ute; 03-20-2017 at 12:04 PM.

  4. #64
    Administrator U-Ute's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Salt Lake City
    Posts
    4,473
    Automation doesn't kill jobs - it kills wages. An argument.

    https://medium.com/@ryanavent_93844/...aad#.nguuqasqz

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by mUUser View Post
    May I ask what was your field of study and where did you go to rack up that kind of debt?
    Dentist.

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Rocker Ute View Post
    My neighborhood has a few duplexes and an small apartment building that attract a lot of newlyweds students.

    Utah talks about things being different and I agree. A lot of these students coming through don't work, live quite well, and focus just on school. I've had a few conversations where they'll be a bit incredulous if you ask if they are working and will say, "I just need to focus on school, I don't need the extra stress..."

    Whereas when I was in school (not really that long ago - 20 years) everybody I knew except the kids of very rich parents worked while going to school or had a summer job. Most of us lived pretty modestly and didn't rack up the debt.

    Now I would say less that 20% work at all. So yeah, no wonder you racked up debt.

    A lot of kids today are expecting to make a ton out of school and don't want to climb the ladder. Two Utes story is pretty true to life... you work hard and pay your dues, the Audi comes later. Why does anyone need a $30k car out of college?

    We were hiring an entry level accounting position. Had a bunch of dime-a-dozen recent grads come through applying. One kid we interviewed from BYU, when told his entry level salary commiserate with his experience turned his nose up and said, "Good luck finding anyone not illegal to take that pay...".

    We did, he contacted us a month later asking if the position was still open.

    I'm with two Utes, get a good education and work hard and you will be successful, or have a great chance at it. Don't get an education and your chances go down dramatically.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Those damn millennials....just work harder.

    You guys have missed the point. I'll use my parents as examples: My father is a lawyer and my father in law is an optometrist.

    My father graduated from BYU Law with $18,000 in debt. His first house was $24,000, his first car was $1,500. He made $26,000 his first year out.

    My father in law graduated from Optometry school with $36,000 in debt. His first house was $100,000, his first car was $10,000 and he made $76,000 his first year out of school.

    The average dentist graduates with $300,000, comparable houses cost $200,000-350,000, comparable cars cost $20,000, and starting salaries with corporations are $96,000-120,000.

    Do you not see the difference?

    But, yeah, work a part time job throughout school and everything will work out the same.

    p.s. I worked all through undergrad, graduated with no debt from Utah. I then went to dental school, obtained scholarships that saved me hundreds of thousands of dollars, and worked all four years. But yeah, it's all those damn, lazy millennials. lol.

  7. #67
    Also, if you worked for $9/hr for 20 hours a week, 52 weeks a year, that is a little over $9,000 a year. Do you honestly think that will make a dent when professional schools are charging $70,000 a year?

    Come on now.

    70,000*4 = 280,000
    9,000*4 = 36,000
    280,000-36,000 = 244000

    Go get those part time jobs boys and girls! It's the answers to all your problems!

  8. #68
    University of Utah dental school cost: $36,000 for instate. $67,000 for out of state. PER YEAR.

    When I went to school, there was no school in Utah. So, in state tuition? Kind of hard to obtain.

    Rosman Dental School in Utah: $73,000 per year.

    Now, keep in mind that all of this is just tuition. Not books, not equipment, not room and board. Just tuition.

    But, yeah, the answer to your problems are that $9/hr part time job.

  9. #69
    And of course, no blame is to be placed on the parents that raised these kids by getting photos taken every six months, awarding trophies to all these kids, taking them to Disneyland every year, buying them all the name brands growing up, racking up all the debt, buying houses they couldn't afford, and getting into their 50's with not retirement and into their 60's still needing job, etc, etc, etc...

    It's almost comical the ignorance and lack of accountability. Guess where we can see where all those lazy millennials get it from, right?

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by Utah View Post
    The average dentist graduates with $300,000, comparable houses cost $200,000-350,000, comparable cars cost $20,000, and starting salaries with corporations are $96,000-120,000.
    I don't have a problem with dentists, doctors, and lawyers racking up a lot of debt in graduate school. With such huge salaries, a few hundred thousand in debt is more than manageable.

    With so much school debt, though, who would ever want to be a teacher or a social worker? The fancy pants schools don't even have education, social work, or nursing degrees for this reason.

    I think working as a student is good for time and money management and for work ethic, but you are right that the days of working your way through school are over.

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Utah View Post
    Those damn millennials....just work harder.

    You guys have missed the point. I'll use my parents as examples: My father is a lawyer and my father in law is an optometrist.

    My father graduated from BYU Law with $18,000 in debt. His first house was $24,000, his first car was $1,500. He made $26,000 his first year out.

    My father in law graduated from Optometry school with $36,000 in debt. His first house was $100,000, his first car was $10,000 and he made $76,000 his first year out of school.

    The average dentist graduates with $300,000, comparable houses cost $200,000-350,000, comparable cars cost $20,000, and starting salaries with corporations are $96,000-120,000.

    Do you not see the difference?

    But, yeah, work a part time job throughout school and everything will work out the same.

    p.s. I worked all through undergrad, graduated with no debt from Utah. I then went to dental school, obtained scholarships that saved me hundreds of thousands of dollars, and worked all four years. But yeah, it's all those damn, lazy millennials. lol.
    I'll say this as nicely as I can... you really are a moron.

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    I don't have a problem with dentists, doctors, and lawyers racking up a lot of debt in graduate school. With such huge salaries, a few hundred thousand in debt is more than manageable.

    With so much school debt, though, who would ever want to be a teacher or a social worker? The fancy pants schools don't even have education, social work, or nursing degrees for this reason.

    I think working as a student is good for time and money management and for work ethic, but you are right that the days of working your way through school are over.
    Yeah I'm sort of chuckling here.

    My social worker wife, who is a supervisor, 9 years with the state and with a masters degree doesn't make $45,000 a year.

    If you combine her salary and mine we make about what Utah here is listing for a starting salary in his field.




    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by Rocker Ute View Post
    I'll say this as nicely as I can... you really are a moron.
    Okay, I'll elaborate before you do your 'nice analysis' post. You've glommed on to one thing I said among many issues based off my experience. Along with not working they also 'live very well' that means they are living in a relatively expensive rental situation, they drive very nice cars and they go and do fun things, like go to Hawaii during spring break, accumulating all of that as debt. So it really isn't so much a millennial thing as it is a spoiled child thing. And by spoiled child I mean a person who expects both during college and immediately after graduation to have all the things their parents worked years to get.

    What you've been whining about is a very "first-world problem". However you cite four economic issues in your comparisons: 1. Cost of education, 2. Cost of housing, 3. Cost of transportation and 4. Income.

    Now the reason I call you a moron is because only a moron would take those four economic factors and tie the issue to the one least related to, and the one that has the least effect on the other three, cost of education. So those are the cards you are dealt, smart people deal with them wisely.

    I was a business grad, my first job out of school paid $24,000 year - and no this wasn't 1960, it was 2000. It was a job that got me on a track to advance where I wanted to go, and I ultimately went to grad school, where my income after grad school was $60k. That gave me opportunities to do new things and increase my earning power. My wife was a school teacher, she made $23k with little hope of improving that. We lived modestly, we graduated without debt, we drove clunkers, we didn't go out to eat. Oh, and my part time jobs (which we actually close to full-time - with a full-time school schedule) paid $12/hour even back then. It wasn't easy.

    Either way... what Two Utes said is right. Get a good education, work hard and you will succeed. It might take you longer to climb out of debt, but your earning potential is exponentially higher. I don't see a lot of doctors and dentists living on food stamps. And so you have more debt... Drive a clunker and pay it off faster. Buy a town home instead of a 3500 sq/ft home in a nice neighborhood, until you get out of debt and can actually afford it.

    Also, don't clap your hands when you realize what has happened with the housing market. 9 years ago the economy collapsed and most people lost 20-50% of the value of their homes. It wasn't until last year where homes caught back up to pre-recession prices, which means almost 9 years of wealth lost. If homes kept up with just inflation during that time, on a $300k home that is nearly $60k lost. In other words, the home worth $300,000 today (and 9 years ago) should be worth $360k. That seems like a benefit for the people who have entered the housing market lately (we won't even get into mortgages in the 3s). Wages have been stagnant during that same time too, yet expenses keep going up. Your education cost in the past compared to today and income/housing expenses scenario is a reality most Americans are living today. Lost NPV of money not ever earned and never invested.

    Yet people clap their hands for Obama and point at the stock market and don't realize that the people who caused real harm to people on main street are richer than they have ever been. Mainstream America is poorer than it was 9 years ago. Other factors that go into the numbers your cited: It costs more to build a house than it did in 1960. There is less land, labor costs are higher, building materials and code is higher. In the SL Valley basically there is no unpurchased land right now for development. Average square feet is also higher. Those things all drive up housing costs.

    THOSE are the factors you should be concerned about. Cost of living going up, wages stagnated.

    But those are also hard things to control, so you have to make an educated decision. You have to decide what is more important to you, earning potential, debt accrued and how to mitigate that and the lifestyle you are willing to sacrifice for a bit for a better lifestyle in the future. Even if you continue to make all the wrong decisions, your overall quality of life is still markedly better than pretty much any period of time in the history of mankind, other than 1955-1975. And I'd argue with computers, smart phones, affordable flight, Arby's 5 for 5 deals, life is even better than then.
    Last edited by Rocker Ute; 03-23-2017 at 11:35 AM.

  14. #74

    National Economics: Keynes or Hayek? Or something else?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocker Ute View Post
    Okay, I'll elaborate before you do your 'nice analysis' post. You've glommed on to one thing I said among many issues based off my experience. Along with not working they also 'live very well' that means they are living in a relatively expensive rental situation, they drive very nice cars and they go and do fun things, like go to Hawaii during spring break, accumulating all of that as debt. So it really isn't so much a millennial thing as it is a spoiled child thing. And by spoiled child I mean a person who expects both during college and immediately after graduation to have all the things their parents worked years to get.

    What you've been whining about is a very "first-world problem". However you cite four economic issues in your comparisons: 1. Cost of education, 2. Cost of housing, 3. Cost of transportation and 4. Income.

    Now the reason I call you a moron is because only a moron would take those four economic factors and tie the issue to the one least related to, and the one that has the least effect on the other three, cost of education. So those are the cards you are dealt, smart people deal with them wisely.

    I was a business grad, my first job out of school paid $24,000 year - and no this wasn't 1960, it was 2000. It was a job that got me on a track to advance where I wanted to go, and I ultimately went to grad school, where my income after grad school was $60k. That gave me opportunities to do new things and increase my earning power. My wife was a school teacher, she made $23k with little hope of improving that. We lived modestly, we graduated without debt, we drove clunkers, we didn't go out to eat. Oh, and my part time jobs (which we actually close to full-time - with a full-time school schedule) paid $12/hour even back then. It wasn't easy.

    Either way... what Two Utes said is right. Get a good education, work hard and you will succeed. It might take you longer to climb out of debt, but your earning potential is exponentially higher. I don't see a lot of doctors and dentists living on food stamps. And so you have more debt... Drive a clunker and pay it off faster. Buy a town home instead of a 3500 sq/ft home in a nice neighborhood, until you get out of debt and can actually afford it.

    Also, don't clap your hands when you realize what has happened with the housing market. 9 years ago the economy collapsed and most people lost 20-50% of the value of their homes. It wasn't until last year where homes caught back up to pre-recession prices, which means almost 9 years of wealth lost. If homes kept up with just inflation during that time, on a $300k home that is nearly $60k lost. In other words, the home worth $300,000 today (and 9 years ago) should be worth $360k. That seems like a benefit for the people who have entered the housing market lately (we won't even get into mortgages in the 3s). Wages have been stagnant during that same time too, yet expenses keep going up. Your education cost in the past compared to today and income/housing expenses scenario is a reality most Americans are living today. Lost NPV of money not ever earned and never invested.

    Yet people clap their hands for Obama and point at the stock market and don't realize that the people who caused real harm to people on main street are richer than they have ever been. Mainstream America is poorer than it was 9 years ago. Other factors that go into the numbers your cited: It costs more to build a house than it did in 1960. There is less land, labor costs are higher, building materials and code is higher. In the SL Valley basically there is no unpurchased land right now for development. Average square feet is also higher. Those things all drive up housing costs.

    THOSE are the factors you should be concerned about. Cost of living going up, wages stagnated.

    But those are also hard things to control, so you have to make an educated decision. You have to decide what is more important to you, earning potential, debt accrued and how to mitigate that and the lifestyle you are willing to sacrifice for a bit for a better lifestyle in the future. Even if you continue to make all the wrong decisions, your overall quality of life is still markedly better than pretty much any period of time in the history of mankind, other than 1955-1975. And I'd argue with computers, smart phones, affordable flight, Arby's 5 for 5 deals, life is even better than then.
    You're quite correct. My first job out of college in 1999 paid me $25,000 or so.

    My job through HS and College paid me $4.65 to start, eventually I was making $7.

    My first job that paid me more than $30,000 a year was my first year in law enforcement at about $37,000.

    Wasn't easy. But those are the choices I made. The careers I chose. I knew going into all of my jobs I would have to be smart with money.

    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Last edited by Diehard Ute; 03-23-2017 at 11:41 AM.

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by Rocker Ute View Post
    Along with not working they also 'live very well' that means they are living in a relatively expensive rental situation, they drive very nice cars and they go and do fun things, like go to Hawaii during spring break, accumulating all of that as debt.
    A common trap I saw in (only some) law and med students at Duke was the "I'm already $200,000 in debt, what harm is there in adding a $1500 sound system?" That kind of thinking was completely foreign to me, but, to be honest, all those people are earning $500k per year now, so they were probably right.

    (we won't even get into mortgages in the 3s).
    3.25%, baby! Purely lucky timing!

  16. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    A common trap I saw in (only some) law and med students at Duke was the "I'm already $200,000 in debt, what harm is there in adding a $1500 sound system?" That kind of thinking was completely foreign to me, but, to be honest, all those people are earning $500k per year now, so they were probably right.



    3.25%, baby! Purely lucky timing!
    Well, we know a number of people in the US who live pretty comfortably off of $70k a year. So if you are a dentist or doctor who walked out of school with $300k of (very low interest) debt but also landed a $120k/year job starting you could feasibly have that debt completely paid off in 6-7 years. Live the $70k lifestyle, which isn't exactly subsisting off dog food by any stretch of the imagination until you are debt free.

    Sorry, but whining about debt that can be paid off in that time span while still living relatively well just doesn't garner sympathy from me, particularly when $350 - $1M salaries are on the horizon. I've got an orthodontist friend my son is going to. He offers interest free financing, so it is pretty easy to figure out what he earns an hour (about $900/hour). His business is pretty fascinating from a business perspective. He has 4 chairs that he has filled at all times and moves from them, with people rotating in and out. If I figure my son's visit takes an hour (it doesn't it is 30 minutes max - but let's make the math slightly easier) he is making about $900/hour. Of course, he has overhead etc, but he is doing pretty well for himself.

  17. #77
    lol at all the "I worked so hard, wo is me, just work harder" posts. Again, you guys have completely missed the point.

    Rocker, you are right, that this is complex and involves many different systems. Education, transportation, housing, and income. That is exactly my point. You say millennials are lazy and coddled. I say that is a stupid response, because it isn't based in reality.

    I say that's ridiculous, when my dad graduated from school and to "get started" with life (buy a house, a car, get out of debt) cost him $43,000. His starting salary was $26,000.

    My father in law spent $146,000 to "get started". His starting salary was $76,000.

    Both parents grew up in a time where "getting started" was less than two year's salary.

    Look at kids in my profession. "Getting started" costs them 4 year's salary ($520,000 in debt and salary of $120,000).

    Do you not see the difference? Do not not see how your "I worked hard, they should too" looks silly when their hole is twice as deep as your hole? You said your starting salary was $24,000. What was your debt load? How much did you pay per year for schooling? How many years did you spend in school?

    But, hell, they are "rich" anyways, so they should just work harder right? lol.

    Also, your last post, most kids graduating now have government loans with 6-8% interest. That isn't low.

    You could pay it off in 6-7 years? Let's look at this intelligently. Let's do six years @ 7% interest. Split the difference. If you make $96,000 (the starting salaries here in Utah)...nevermind, let's go $120,000. Let's be liberal here.

    In Utah, your taxes would be about $42,000 a year.

    So, if you deduct 120,000-42,000 you get $78,000. You are going to pay those loans off in 6 years. That is $5,115 per month or $61,380 per year. That leaves you $16,000 a year to live off of.

    Is that living the $70,000 a year lifestyle? Weird.

    And, why should they "live the $70,000 a year lifestyle"? If they wanted that, they wouldn't have gone into medicine. There are a lot easier ways to "live the $70,000 a year lifestyle".

    But I'm the moron.

    Oh, and your orthodontist? How long has he been in business for? Let's get on even footing here before we start comparing. I agree that guys that graduated in the 1990's and earlier...hell, guys that graduated before 2008 have a much, much different reality than guys who graduate now. Let's use some real intelligent examples, not just "you start out making more than I ever did, you should be rich" ignorance.
    Last edited by Utah; 03-24-2017 at 08:27 AM.

  18. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by Rocker Ute View Post
    Sorry, but whining about debt that can be paid off in that time span while still living relatively well just doesn't garner sympathy from me, particularly when $350 - $1M salaries are on the horizon.
    Again,y
    Again, your ignorance is showing. The average dentist employee makes $120,000. The average dentist owner makes $160,000. The average specialist is right around $220,000.

    Yeah, there are guys making what you claim, but that is not the norm, but the exception by a LARGE margin.

  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by Diehard Ute View Post
    You're quite correct. My first job out of college in 1999 paid me $25,000 or so.

    My job through HS and College paid me $4.65 to start, eventually I was making $7.

    My first job that paid me more than $30,000 a year was my first year in law enforcement at about $37,000.

    Wasn't easy. But those are the choices I made. The careers I chose. I knew going into all of my jobs I would have to be smart with money.

    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    What was your debt starting your career? You sound like my dad. "Oh, I made $1.65 when I worked in college, wah, wah, you are so spoiled now a days, you make $9/hr". That comment is irrelevant. Who cares what you made per hour? You have to compare it to today's numbers. Could you pay your way through school and pay for housing and pay for food and transportation on that $1.65 per hour? Yeah, my dad could. He graduated with a BS and no debt. He then went through a master's program working part time with no debt. He only took on debt when he started law school.

    So, that $1.65 per hour was pretty damn good that it covered his housing, his food, and his schooling. I'd take that any day of the week. Does that $9/hr cover schooling, room and board and transportation anymore?

    Would $9,000 cover tuition, room and board and transportation?

    If not, then your story is commendable, but irrelevant.
    Last edited by Utah; 03-24-2017 at 08:23 AM.

  20. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by Utah View Post
    Again,y
    Again, your ignorance is showing. The average dentist employee makes $120,000. The average dentist owner makes $160,000. The average specialist is right around $220,000.
    After 100k, all I hear is rich.

    Any of us could have done the med, dental, law route, so we have no right to complain. But you have nothing to complain about either.

    I think we all agree that undergrad tuition is nuts, and I don't think any of us believe that millennials are dumb and lazy.

  21. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by Utah View Post
    Again,y
    Again, your ignorance is showing. The average dentist employee makes $120,000. The average dentist owner makes $160,000. The average specialist is right around $220,000.

    Yeah, there are guys making what you claim, but that is not the norm, but the exception by a LARGE margin.
    Talking with Dentist is just like talking with MDs about salary. There is an old saying from major league baseball:

    "There are two truths to baseball. There is never enough pitching and no one ever made any money"
    "Be a philosopher. A man can compromise to gain a point. It has become apparent that a man can, within limits, follow his inclinations within the arms of the Church if he does so discreetly." - The Walking Drum

    "And here’s what life comes down to—not how many years you live, but how many of those years are filled with bullshit that doesn’t amount to anything to satisfy the requirements of some dickhead you’ll never get the pleasure of punching in the face." – Adam Carolla

  22. #82
    I don't blame sancho and MRD. I get it. BUT, Rocker said that a new Dr could live on $70,000 (which to be fair, he said that lifestyle, which means after taxes it is $50,000 cash) and pay off their loans in 6 years. If they were to pay off their loans in six years, they'd live on $16,000 a year.

    That's a little bit of a difference.

    My posts aren't to whine about my life. My life is great. I work hard (well, less hard then I did five years ago) and I do well. I'm not rich, but I can do take care of myself and put some away as well.

    My point with all this is that I would LOVE to have it as hard as my dad had it, making $1.65/hr.

    I would LOVE to have it as hard as Rocker had it (BUT, to be fair, I am making some assumptions here about his debt load).

    Rocker keeps throwing out these statements that just aren't applicable and being very condescending along the way.

    Let's take it a step further: I graduated with about $200,000 in debt, which was very low for my class. I made a great salary right out of school, especially when you compare it to the average American.

    What about the kids who graduate with that type of debt and make half what I made my first year?

    I know Rocker says, "just work harder, don't buy so many toys", but you need to remember that these kids are TOLD, under no certain terms, that they are to ONLY focus on school. My program told us we were not to have part time jobs. Our loan officers TOLD us that our school was our job, and we needed to be focused on that and then gave examples of kids who flunked out because they had part time jobs.

    This is a complex, terrible problem we have. It is broken on so many levels. From predatory lending, to school costs rising too fast, to healthcare costs being outrageous, to a broken tax system...to blow it off as "you are just lazy"....

    That's not ok. It's ignorant.
    Last edited by Utah; 03-24-2017 at 09:26 AM.

  23. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    After 100k, all I hear is rich.

    Any of us could have done the med, dental, law route, so we have no right to complain. But you have nothing to complain about either.

    I think we all agree that undergrad tuition is nuts, and I don't think any of us believe that millennials are dumb and lazy.
    I'm
    I'm not sure I'd use the word complain. What I'm saying is that it costs twice as much to get started as it did 30 years ago. Is that not a problem? Whether you are a teacher making $25,000 a year or a Dr making $120,000?

    The first post was about taxes.

    How can we expect the American Dream to live on,whether you are a teacher or a Dr or a cop, when we outprice people from obtaining that dream?

    Why is it we are ok with Trump bankrupting out of his tax burden, or giving the Miller's a 20 million dollar tax break, then turn around and raise the food tax and the FLAT income tax here in Utah? Why is it we are ok with the federal government loaning out money at 6-8% to people with no money, and then subsidizing housing at interest rates in the 3% range?

    In this country, all the breaks are for those who don't need them.

    How does what we are doing right now make any sense?

  24. #84
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Los Angeles, California
    Posts
    14,817

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    "Nine tenths of wisdom consists of being wise in time."
    --Theodore Roosevelt


Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •