On a scale of 1-10, how concerned are you over the recent transfers?
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On a scale of 1-10, how concerned are you over the recent transfers?
If 1 means "not worried at all" and 10 means "really worried," I'm a 4.
"It's men in shorts." -- Rick Majerus
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
--Yeats
“True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”
--John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell
The question I ask myself is...will I be watching next year and saying: "Man, we are a (Isaiah Wright, Brekkot, etc...) away from being the Pac 12 champs." For me, the answer to that question be no! I'm at a 1.
“It only ends once. Anything that happens before that is just progress.”
Well, because he thought it was good sport. Because some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.
We basically have a brand new team now. This is not a recipe for success at Utah. If I recall correctly, Wright, Mawien, Chapman were all 3-4 star prospects. As it stands right now, we may not be done with transfers. I'm at an 8.
I'm a 1 on the players who transferred.
I'm a 5 on the coaches' ability to identify players.
I'm a 6 on how the potential recruits might view the program.
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
--Yeats
“True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”
--John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell
“It only ends once. Anything that happens before that is just progress.”
Well, because he thought it was good sport. Because some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.
Moderately concerned: 5
Not over the players that are leaving as none are "game changers". I have faith in the ability of LK to find and grow talent. The complete tear down and reboot of the team this year is where my concern comes from. I don't want to see another 9-12 win season, but it seems like the talent we have coming in is good enough that we won't see that, but you never know.
I posted something similar on UteNation over the weekend and got several people trying to convince everyone that this is the same as it was in the Majerus days. Now, I know that Majerus had his fair share of transfers of kids but my gut is that the misreemberer caller outers are misremembering. Was there a year that Majerus even got close to six transfers? Seems very unlikely.
I'd say overall, I'm at a six trending toward a seven. I think this has been nearly a disaster. I mean, if the players who left are a "one," that leaves me with cold comfort regarding this coaching staff's ability to identify and develop players. Add in what I view is a bit of a fumble on LK's part regarding the BYU cancellation (I'm not totally against it, but think it could have been handled WAY better), and I can't help but feel like any successes we've had since Delon and a promising freshman class took us to the Sweet 16, has been fools gold.
Had we made the S16 for the second year in a row (like we should have) instead of getting completely emasculated by a mid major on national television, I'd probably feel like this offseason was more of a minor speedbump than a car-swallowing sink hole. It feels like we're starting over, not merely doing typical offseason retooling.
I'm not panicking, but I'm not impressed and definitely concerned.
“It only ends once. Anything that happens before that is just progress.”
Well, because he thought it was good sport. Because some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.
The only transfer that is worthy of a freak out is Brekkotttt. The others make me feel nothing or better about the program.
Reyes - Not a D1 player. He was just terrible.
Wright - I had high hopes for him, but last year he was just terrible. It actually started at the end of his freshman year.
Miller - Who?
Mawien - We'll never know what might have been, but I trust the coaches on this one. He was a project coming in and something about last year convinced the coaches he wasn't going to develop.
All of the above players can be replaced/improved upon with people we have entering this year. On the other hand:
Brekkott - This one hurts. He showed flashes his freshman year that he would be the go-to guy in a few years. Then as a sophomore he didn't develop. But, he was still one of our best post players and our best passing/shooting big. He'll be hard to replace.
I'm sure there are attitude/effort issues, but I hate to see a highly touted recruit fail.
Last edited by Applejack; 05-23-2016 at 02:34 PM.
Nobody wins when a player transfers out of the program. The coaches either whiffed on a marginal talent, or the player gets uppity. It's also likely that even if a player falls under one or both categories, that he has friends in the locker room that will miss him, which can undercut morale to varying degrees (Not gonna lie -- sometimes it can be improved, too). Under most circumstances, I'm a steady 5. I'm a 6 this year because Brekkot carries value as a player and potential major contributor for this program.
I'm far more worried about our inability to consistently land our top targets in recruiting than I am transfers. I'm probably an 8 in that regard.
I think being local is tough in today's basketball. Nowadays, a local recruit has a circle of loser AAU friends that goes back 5 years. That's 5 years worth of players, coaches, assistant coaches, friends' parents, and various other assorted leeches who all think they know more about basketball than your head coach. If you don't get playing time, there must be 100 voices saying "so-and-so at such-and-such school would use you better in his system."
I actually know nothing about this - that's just how I picture it in my mind.
http://247sports.com/Season/2016-Bas...l/TeamRankings
According to 247, this is the highest rated recruiting class in the Larry K era, and that doesn't include our two D1 transfers (Collette and Barefield).
I get a little confused when I see the same people (I'm not talking about anyone on this board) who were clamoring all season long for the need of a "talent upgrade", now complaining about all the transfers. Can't have both. With the exception of Brekkott, not one of the five players would've seen meaningful minutes next year. I don't have a problem with people blaming the coaches for mis-evaluating or not developing those players, but you can't be upset about not having Miller, Isaiah, Reyes, Makol on the floor next year from a talent perspective. Best for both parties (player and team) for them to move on, and I wish them each well.
The environment in today's CBB is what it is... 500+ transfers per year. Last year we had 0. This year we have 5. If we have around 4-5 next year, then I'll be concerned.
To answer the poll question, I'd say I'm at a 3 in terms of the transfers this year. What's slightly more concerning is the number of players the staff has "missed" on recently. But I still don't think it's overwhelmingly concerning. When you're mainly bringing in 3 star kids like we are, you're probably going to "miss" on half anyway.
I hope this doesn't have a negative impact on our Deseret Duel standings.
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
--Yeats
“True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”
--John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell
Just checked because it didn't sound quite right. Eris Winder transferred. But your point still stands. I thought there were a couple at the end of last year, but must have been thinking about Fields and Onwas the year before. Guess things are more stable than I was starting to feel.
transfers can be signs of a healthy program, as far as I'm concerned:
Barefield will be an improvement over Wright
Collette > Reyes
And I have the impression that Mawien needed minutes and wasn't going to get them at Utah, if he improves I suspect Utah will recruit him again in a year or two.
With the exception of Brekkot, all of the transfers were win/win for the program and the player and I'm sure cutting ties with Brekkot was a difficult decision but one that was probably better for those involved.
Ogbe announced this afternoon that he intends on transferring. No one really expected him to play next year, but the fact that he could be playing somewhere else is a major head scratcher. Especially with no one left to replace him. This off-season has been garbage.
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“To me there is no dishonor in being wrong and learning. There is dishonor in willful ignorance and there is dishonor in disrespect.” James Hatch, former Navy Seal and current Yale student.
There has to be a counter move here. With ten scholarship players until fall semester ends, theres gotta be someone out there who could be a seviceable player.
Ogbe to UVU.
Im so confused by this, I don't know where to start. If Ogbe is healthy, is he not our starting 3 and getting a lot of minutes?
In my mind, there are two options here:
a) Kuzma is going to transition to the 3 next year, taking the majority of the minutes and Kenneth, wanting to get playing time with his last year, decides to go somewhere where he will have that chance.
b) The staff has a countermove planned and are not sure Ogbe will make it through another year, and thus asked him to move on.
I'm not worried until someone who matters transfers--I'm a 1 right now. These transfers, where the kid is trying to claw himself into a situation where he matters, are normal, especially at a place like Utah where the coaches have to take recruiting risks. I feel like a broken record. Now, I did lose confidence in Boylen because of transfers after essentially the entire returning starting lineup walked out. It's not the same thing.
One thing I have learned in a long life: that all our science, measured against reality, is primitive and childlike -- and yet it is the most precious thing we have.
--Albert Einstein
The fact that life evolved out of nearly nothing, some 10 billion years after the universe evolved out of literally nothing, is a fact so staggering that I would be mad to attempt words to do it justice.
--Richard Dawkins
Be kind to all, for everyone you meet is fighting a great battle.
--Philo