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Thread: 2017 Recruiting Thread

  1. #211
    So there are two known targets and both are JUCO's. With 3 open scholarships this year (assuming Tillman signs, Kuzma leaves and nobody else transfers) and at least 3 more next year (Collette, Rawson and Bealer), I guess you need a couple of bodies this year and put a big push on for high schoolers in 2018. Too bad the two mission kids won't delay their missions for a year.

  2. #212
    Quote Originally Posted by UTEopia View Post
    So there are two known targets and both are JUCO's. With 3 open scholarships this year (assuming Tillman signs, Kuzma leaves and nobody else transfers) and at least 3 more next year (Collette, Rawson and Bealer), I guess you need a couple of bodies this year and put a big push on for high schoolers in 2018. Too bad the two mission kids won't delay their missions for a year.
    Assuming Kuzma leaves, that makes 5 spots, counting Tillman (Coleman, Bonam, Daniels, Zamora, Kuzma). I also think we will see one more 'transfer' unless the market just dries up and there is no one better. We have spots galore.

  3. #213
    Quote Originally Posted by UtahsMrSports View Post
    Assuming Kuzma leaves, that makes 5 spots, counting Tillman (Coleman, Bonam, Daniels, Zamora, Kuzma). I also think we will see one more 'transfer' unless the market just dries up and there is no one better. We have spots galore.
    I'm always confused. Is basketball allowed 12 or 13 scholarships?

  4. #214
    Quote Originally Posted by UTEopia View Post
    I'm always confused. Is basketball allowed 12 or 13 scholarships?
    13.

  5. #215
    Senior Member justaute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UtahsMrSports View Post
    Assuming Kuzma leaves, that makes 5 spots, counting Tillman (Coleman, Bonam, Daniels, Zamora, Kuzma). I also think we will see one more 'transfer' unless the market just dries up and there is no one better. We have spots galore.
    If we can't find better talent than some of our bench, then I think we have a much bigger problem.

  6. #216
    Also Warren Washington---6'10" HS 3 star.

    And talk of transfers from UConn & Duke--who would have to sit out.

  7. #217
    Quote Originally Posted by Old Standing ute View Post
    Also Warren Washington---6'10" HS 3 star.

    And talk of transfers from UConn & Duke--who would have to sit out.
    I thought Washington was a 2018 kid.

  8. #218
    BOOM!




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  9. #219
    Per Goon, Donnie Tillman will have a signing party tomorrow. I'm very excited to have him on the team!

  10. #220
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dwight Schr-Ute View Post
    BOOM!




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    Did we want Brooks King? Name's unfamiliar to me but I haven't been following closely.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell



  11. #221
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    Did we want Brooks King? Name's unfamiliar to me but I haven't been following closely.
    Walk on.

  12. #222
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UtahsMrSports View Post
    Walk on.
    I will be very excited to watch him play during warm-ups.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell



  13. #223
    Quote Originally Posted by UTEopia View Post
    So there are two known targets and both are JUCO's.
    Maybe this is our recruiting philosophy, at least in part. We go hard after the guys we really want, and if we don't get them, we'd rather settle for the best JUCO we can find than for the incoming freshmen we aren't really excited about. That way, we're only on the hook for 2 years instead of 4.

  14. #224
    Senior Member justaute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    Maybe this is our recruiting philosophy, at least in part. We go hard after the guys we really want, and if we don't get them, we'd rather settle for the best JUCO we can find than for the incoming freshmen we aren't really excited about. That way, we're only on the hook for 2 years instead of 4.
    Oregon does that, but clearly does it much, much better.

  15. #225
    Quote Originally Posted by justaute View Post
    Oregon does that, but clearly does it much, much better.
    I think the relevant question is:

    Is 3-star talent so abundant that we we can always find it in the offseason in case we whiff on the 4/5 star talent? Is it alright to ignore the Yoeli Childs of our recruiting pool because we can always find people of that caliber?

  16. #226
    Senior Member justaute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    I think the relevant question is:

    Is 3-star talent so abundant that we we can always find it in the offseason in case we whiff on the 4/5 star talent? Is it alright to ignore the Yoeli Childs of our recruiting pool because we can always find people of that caliber?
    Not sure, but I don't think it's binary. Who knows exactly what our coaching staff is thinking. Whatever it is, it's not working well.

  17. #227
    Quote Originally Posted by justaute View Post
    I don't think it's binary.
    Yeah, these things are never black/white. You could take this approach and win with an unexpectedly great JUCO, or your could take it and miss on some local 3-star who turns out to be amazing. The question has to be understood in terms of averages and probabilities.

    Edit: And our staff is certainly not only taking this approach. We offer 3-star recruits when we like what we see. I just think they don't feel pressure to give out scholarships to kids they don't like because they figure they can get JUCOs instead.
    Last edited by sancho; 04-12-2017 at 09:57 AM.

  18. #228
    Quote Originally Posted by UTEopia View Post
    I thought Washington was a 2018 kid.
    he is---my mistake.

  19. #229
    Senior Member justaute's Avatar
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    Based on Goon's article, it does not seem as though there will be more transfers. I hope someone like Jokl isn't just sticking around to keep a chair warm. He was absolutely useless last year and didn't seem to offer much of a prospect. Still can't believe a Pac 12 program is not able to bring in better talent.

  20. #230
    Quote Originally Posted by justaute View Post
    Based on Goon's article, it does not seem as though there will be more transfers. I hope someone like Jokl isn't just sticking around to keep a chair warm. He was absolutely useless last year and didn't seem to offer much of a prospect. Still can't believe a Pac 12 program is not able to bring in better talent.
    There some more info here. The complete transcript of Larry's interview

    http://ow.ly/wZ5k50aOu5v


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  21. #231



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  22. #232
    Senior Member justaute's Avatar
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    yah...really like the way Tillman plays. Good athleticism. Pretty good handle for a guy his size. Plays hard on defense. Has some craftiness (usually connotes understanding of the game). In his highlight, he had a dunk on one end and then rushed back to play D. Moves his feet.

  23. #233
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by justaute View Post
    yah...really like the way Tillman plays. Good athleticism. Pretty good handle for a guy his size. Plays hard on defense. Has some craftiness (usually connotes understanding of the game). In his highlight, he had a dunk on one end and then rushed back to play D. Moves his feet.
    LK said he expects Tillman to be a difference-maker right away.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell



  24. #234
    LK's interview filled in a lot of gaps in understanding what's going on. He's not heavy on coach-speak, which makes it easier. Somewhat surprised LK nudged Daniels and Zamora out. Addition through subtraction - on culture, buy in, adhering to game plan, etc.

    Tillman signing is big, bigger than it was before Daniels left. At 6-7/220, my guess is he would struggle guarding a 2 or the point on a switch on the perimeter. Same for Kuzma sliding down to play the 3. From what I've seen, Seeley might be able to cover the guard line, for short periods.

    We'll see what the late recruiting can bring in, but... is there a football player than can add some depth at the guard line in the 2nd half of the season? Playing 2 sports is increasingly difficult to do, granted. Singleton? Tyrone Smith?
    Last edited by Ma'ake; 04-14-2017 at 08:00 AM.

  25. #235
    Quote Originally Posted by Ma'ake View Post
    LK's interview filled in a lot of gaps in understanding what's going on. He's not heavy on coach-speak, which makes it easier. Somewhat surprised LK nudged Daniels and Zamora out. Addition through subtraction - on culture, buy in, adhering to game plan, etc.

    Tillman signing is big, bigger than it was before Daniels left. At 6-7/220, my guess is he would struggle guarding a 2 or the point on a switch on the perimeter. Same for Kuzma sliding down to play the 3. From what I've seen, Seeley might be able to cover the guard line, for short periods.

    We'll see what the late recruiting can bring in, but... is there a football player than can add some depth at the guard line in the 2nd half of the season? Playing 2 sports is increasingly difficult to do, granted. Singleton? Tyrone Smith?
    From my uninformed position, it seems like it would be easier for a big guy to play both sports than a guard. But, as a big guy, maybe I'm just giving guards too much credit.

    It may be coach speak, but given Larry's upfront style, I also found it encouraging that Larry said he's optimistic about Kuzma being back next year.


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  26. #236
    Quote Originally Posted by Dwight Schr-Ute View Post
    It may be coach speak, but given Larry's upfront style, I also found it encouraging that Larry said he's optimistic about Kuzma being back next year.
    Completely agree. Kuzma is the most important recruit for next year. If the deep draft cools his jets, and he's not desperate to make money in Europe, Kuzma could improve a lot by improving his FT and 3PT shooting, and you can always get stronger, maybe a little more explosive.

    Kuzma's not ready for the NBA, but if he puts in the work, he might be good enough to make it, next year. His passing ability shows he can be ahead of the play, mentally, and the less-athletic (but decent size / length) guys figure out how to minimize their athletic liabilities. Is Kuzma less of an athlete than Mike Miller? Chandler Parsons? No, but he's got to be able to knock down the 3 with much better regularity, and be a 75% FT shooter.

  27. #237
    Senior Member justaute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ma'ake View Post
    Completely agree. Kuzma is the most important recruit for next year. If the deep draft cools his jets, and he's not desperate to make money in Europe, Kuzma could improve a lot by improving his FT and 3PT shooting, and you can always get stronger, maybe a little more explosive.

    Kuzma's not ready for the NBA, but if he puts in the work, he might be good enough to make it, next year. His passing ability shows he can be ahead of the play, mentally, and the less-athletic (but decent size / length) guys figure out how to minimize their athletic liabilities. Is Kuzma less of an athlete than Mike Miller? Chandler Parsons? No, but he's got to be able to knock down the 3 with much better regularity, and be a 75% FT shooter.
    Concur. IMO...

    Athleticism -- average at best.
    Fluidity -- quite good.
    Size (as 4) -- way too thin and can't bang.
    Size (as 3) -- good height, but can't shoot and will have trouble defending.
    Shooting -- below par.
    Overall defense -- average to below average.
    Ball-handling -- ok as a "stretch 4".
    Passing -- good.
    Overall BB IQ -- hmmmm, average at best. Still has room to improve.

  28. #238
    Quote Originally Posted by justaute View Post
    Concur. IMO...

    Athleticism -- average at best.
    Fluidity -- quite good.
    Size (as 4) -- way too thin and can't bang.
    Size (as 3) -- good height, but can't shoot and will have trouble defending.
    Shooting -- below par.
    Overall defense -- average to below average.
    Ball-handling -- ok as a "stretch 4".
    Passing -- good.
    Overall BB IQ -- hmmmm, average at best. Still has room to improve.
    Totally agree on athleticism and shooting, with ball handling being something that can always be improved, even if your name is Delon Wright.

    On the BB IQ, I have to give KK a better grade, because as our best passer, he could see plays before anyone else, and he was devastating as a passer in the high-low game, especially when combined with Collette (who has good hands, but really bad length, which is offset by an array of moves and fakes... but late in the year was getting blocked at the rim by wings. Needless to say, Collette could be a lengthy post, on his own.)

    Here's a thought on Kuzma - Don Nelson (of the Bucks and Warriors) invented the notion of a "point forward". Given the departures of 2 starting level guards, maybe they try to use Kuzma as a point forward, to initiate the offense? If he gets a stronger handle on the ball, and works on the jumper, why not?

    Handling the ball that much, and having to get defensive pressure off you via the dribble requires learning all the tricks ball handling guards use, like hesitation moves, reading defenders' foot placement, etc. Bonan was really good at this. (Oh what could have been, had he had half of Rudy Gobert's competitiveness).

    I have more faith in Kuzma to pick up ball handling and the skills needed to be a point than I did Zamora.

  29. #239
    Quote Originally Posted by Ma'ake View Post
    On the BB IQ, I have to give KK a better grade, because as our best passer, he could see plays before anyone else,
    He is also a good rebounder, which requires its own form of BB IQ.

  30. #240
    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    He is also a good rebounder, which requires its own form of BB IQ.
    Good call. The reason he racked up all those double-doubles - and the assists - was because his brain was ahead of the play.

    He has a pretty impressive array of moves in scoring, but how many times did he score fast break layups because he saw an opening and with his reach, was able to reach back and lay it up even though he had overrun the play? Those kind of easy points aren't as available in the NBA, of course, but they're a sign Kuz can adjust to a new level and find the gaps and creases that show he knows what's going on.

    When they were freshman, I thought Chapman was clearly better, but in a year Kuz closed the gap and became all PAC-12.

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