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Thread: NCAA hoops: 2016-2017 edition

  1. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by UTEopia View Post
    We now play 18, so it would also give us one more quality home game. I wonder if it would cause coaches to eliminate some of the better OOC competition. Ideally, I would like to see an OOC basketball schedule that has 4 high quality opponents, 4 mid-level opponents and 4 games you should never lose.
    I wouldn't mind going even further - go to 22 conference games for a true round robin.

    Coaches/ADs would be afraid the extra losses would hurt them in selection. But (1) selection relies less and less on W/L record and more and more on other things, and (2) if all P5s play more conference games, there are fewer quality games for mid-majors. The P5s can hurt the mid-major SOS while boosting their own.

  2. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    I wouldn't mind going even further - go to 22 conference games for a true round robin.

    Coaches/ADs would be afraid the extra losses would hurt them in selection. But (1) selection relies less and less on W/L record and more and more on other things, and (2) if all P5s play more conference games, there are fewer quality games for mid-majors. The P5s can hurt the mid-major SOS while boosting their own.
    I think this is a great idea, but you can only do this if the other P5 conferences are doing it as well. Most of the SEC's prestige and reputation comes from only playing 8 games in conference. Put the SEC in a 9 game conference schedule and suddenly their SOS drops big time as does the number of ranked teams they have.

  3. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by Utah View Post
    I think this is a great idea, but you can only do this if the other P5 conferences are doing it as well. Most of the SEC's prestige and reputation comes from only playing 8 games in conference. Put the SEC in a 9 game conference schedule and suddenly their SOS drops big time as does the number of ranked teams they have.
    Yes, but in basketball? The SEC has no reputation there to consider.

  4. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    Yes, but in basketball? The SEC has no reputation there to consider.
    True, but if the PAC-12 plays more conference games then other conferences then we get more losses, which = PAC-12 in inferior in the "experts" eyes.

    I don't know if it would hurt come selection Sunday (hopefully not), but it would hurt with week to week rankings and perceived strength of the conference.

  5. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    I wouldn't mind going even further - go to 22 conference games for a true round robin.

    Coaches/ADs would be afraid the extra losses would hurt them in selection. But (1) selection relies less and less on W/L record and more and more on other things, and (2) if all P5s play more conference games, there are fewer quality games for mid-majors. The P5s can hurt the mid-major SOS while boosting their own.
    You're asking all schools to give up two home games. That will never happen. You're also asking for conference season to start either during finals or during Christmas break. Again, another non-starter.

  6. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by SoCalPat View Post
    You're asking all schools to give up two home games. That will never happen. You're also asking for conference season to start either during finals or during Christmas break. Again, another non-starter.
    I've always wanted the season to start in January, which, if I understand correctly, can't happen because of a golf tournament in Georgia.

    I think it's shortsighted to believe the revenue from December games against Savannah State would be greater than what comes from a better product all around. Very few teams sell out in college basketball, and the U can't give away tickets to the awful December games. College basketball can either putt along with the status quo or make some changes.
    Last edited by sancho; 06-21-2017 at 08:18 AM.

  7. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    I've always wanted the season to start in January, which, if I understand correctly, can't happen because of a golf tournament in Georgia.

    I think it's shortsighted to believe the revenue from December games against Savannah State would be greater than what comes from a better product all around. Very few teams sell out in college basketball, and the U can't give away tickets to the awful December games. College basketball can either putt along with the status quo or make some changes.
    the problem with a January start is that you are pushing March Madness into the same timeframe as the NBA and NHL Playoffs. IMO opinion, the problem with college basketball in December is the lack of quality games as opposed to the timing.

  8. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by UTEopia View Post
    the problem with a January start is that you are pushing March Madness into the same timeframe as the NBA and NHL Playoffs. IMO opinion, the problem with college basketball in December is the lack of quality games as opposed to the timing.
    Sancho noted that with his subtle reference to The Masters.

  9. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    I've always wanted the season to start in January, which, if I understand correctly, can't happen because of a golf tournament in Georgia.

    I think it's shortsighted to believe the revenue from December games against Savannah State would be greater than what comes from a better product all around. Very few teams sell out in college basketball, and the U can't give away tickets to the awful December games. College basketball can either putt along with the status quo or make some changes.
    We need Savannah State to justify the cost to season ticket holders. Take games away, and you can't charge as much.

    Also, because of the contract with the Pac-12 Network, we need to supply inventory for the channel. Scheduling more conference games takes away from that inventory.

    The guarantees we pay for games like these are shockingly low. We paid College of Idaho $5K plus expenses a few years back. I highly doubt Savannah State or teams of its ilk get much more, seeing they usually package road trips so they can save on costs.

    You want more meaningful games? Start with applying heat on the man who puts our schedule together. But there isn't an athletics administrator or TV network exec in the country that's pushing for more league games while keeping the schedule capped at 27 games.
    Last edited by SoCalPat; 06-21-2017 at 10:11 AM.

  10. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by SoCalPat View Post
    You want more meaningful games? Start with applying heat on the man who puts our schedule together. But there isn't an athletics administrator or TV network exec in the country that's pushing for more league games while keeping the schedule capped at 27 games.
    I don't just want more meaningful games. I want more conference games. I want to not have gaps in the conference schedule.

    The revenue loss on two home games is probably not trivial, but college basketball needs to think bigger picture. The first six weeks of the season might as well not exist at all. It garners no attention, no buzz. Better non-conference match ups aren't the answer - you're still going up against football. There are great college basketball games in Nov every year, and only the superfans even notice.

  11. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    I've always wanted the season to start in January, which, if I understand correctly, can't happen because of a golf tournament in Georgia.

    I think it's shortsighted to believe the revenue from December games against Savannah State would be greater than what comes from a better product all around. Very few teams sell out in college basketball, and the U can't give away tickets to the awful December games. College basketball can either putt along with the status quo or make some changes.
    One more thing about the Masters. No sporting event in the world holds TV hostage like the Masters does. CBS is really caught between a rock and a hard place here, as the NCAA Tournament is an annual event whose broadcast rights are right up there with the Super Bowl, which CBS does not get to broadcast annually. The Masters is a money loser for CBS, but it doesn't want to lose the prestige of being the tournament's only broadcast partner. So CBS does what the Masters says, and there's absolutely zero desire on the part of the NCAA to extend the schedule in either direction.

    It's why non-conference SOS is such a vital component of NCAA Tournament selection. If schools aren't going to take the steps to improve the product in December, why should they be allowed to participate in the sport's biggest money maker? That's Business of College Sports 101 our current head coach simply does not grasp.

  12. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    I don't just want more meaningful games. I want more conference games. I want to not have gaps in the conference schedule.

    The revenue loss on two home games is probably not trivial, but college basketball needs to think bigger picture. The first six weeks of the season might as well not exist at all. It garners no attention, no buzz. Better non-conference match ups aren't the answer - you're still going up against football. There are great college basketball games in Nov every year, and only the superfans even notice.
    There's nothing that can be done nationally to cure this. There's plenty that can be done at the individual school level to change that. In 2014-15, our game against Wichita State drew over 14K on a Wednesday night in December with a 9 p.m. start. With the Pac-12 regular season title on the line and a more ideal start time (Saturday, 7 p.m.) against Arizona, we drew about 800 more fans.

    Your more-conference games solution is not only impossible due the economic realities and the calendar, it's pointless when countless examples exist that fans will show up en masse for December games against quality competition. College basketball will always take a backseat in December to the NFL and college football on SportsCenter, and nothing will change that. In Salt Lake City, where the former doesn't exist and the latter is often 2-3 weeks away from playing another game, it doesn't have to be the case.

  13. #103
    Quote Originally Posted by SoCalPat View Post
    There's nothing that can be done nationally to cure this. There's plenty that can be done at the individual school level to change that. In 2014-15, our game against Wichita State drew over 14K on a Wednesday night in December with a 9 p.m. start. With the Pac-12 regular season title on the line and a more ideal start time (Saturday, 7 p.m.) against Arizona, we drew about 800 more fans.

    Your more-conference games solution is not only impossible due the economic realities and the calendar, it's pointless when countless examples exist that fans will show up en masse for December games against quality competition. College basketball will always take a backseat in December to the NFL and college football on SportsCenter, and nothing will change that. In Salt Lake City, where the former doesn't exist and the latter is often 2-3 weeks away from playing another game, it doesn't have to be the case.
    I'm all for better Utah games in Nov/Dec. I would like people in charge to dream a little bigger, but, you are right; on a local level all we can do is schedule good games.

  14. #104
    Update on the scheduling discussion: the Big10 is joining the ACC in going to a 20-game conference schedule. Those conferences are both bigger than the Pac-12, of course.

  15. #105
    Senior Member Scorcho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    Update on the scheduling discussion: the Big10 is joining the ACC in going to a 20-game conference schedule. Those conferences are both bigger than the Pac-12, of course.
    rats, I wish that would have been a Big10 vs PAC12 agreement

  16. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by Scorcho View Post
    rats, I wish that would have been a Big10 vs PAC12 agreement
    I dont think he meant that Big 10 and ACC are entering an agreement with each other. I think he meant that the Big 10, like the ACC, is going to a 20 game conference schedule, which makes more sense for the Pac 12, since it would mean every team plays every other home and home.

  17. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by concerned View Post
    I dont think he meant that Big 10 and ACC are entering an agreement with each other. I think he meant that the Big 10, like the ACC, is going to a 20 game conference schedule, which makes more sense for the Pac 12, since it would mean every team plays every other home and home.
    Not quite. That would require a 22-game schedule.

  18. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by Scratch View Post
    Not quite. That would require a 22-game schedule.
    I could have figured that out if I had two more fingers or toes.

  19. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by concerned View Post
    I dont think he meant that Big 10 and ACC are entering an agreement with each other. I think he meant that the Big 10, like the ACC, is going to a 20 game conference schedule, which makes more sense for the Pac 12, since it would mean every team plays every other home and home.
    < == my reading comp skills

  20. #110
    Quote Originally Posted by Scratch View Post
    Not quite. That would require a 22-game schedule.
    I've been hoping that they'd do this from the beginning. We always have four preseason games I would happily put on the alter in order to have a true PAC-12 round robin. Heck, I woulnd't even mind just replacing the conf tourney with the four extra games. But alas, more Cardinal Stritch.

  21. #111
    Basketball season starts tonight!

    #1 Duke vs #2 Michigan State followed by #7 Kentucky vs #4 Kansas.

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