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Thread: The Trump Presidency - Life In Interesting Times

  1. #2191
    Administrator U-Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ma'ake View Post
    (This isn't meant as a slam on the many good people who are Republicans. I think this survey would get different results in Utah, for example.)

    http://www.people-press.org/2017/07/...-institutions/

    Why has there been such a nosedive in support among Republicans for a college education?
    I think that this and your other conclusion about education and progressives are closely correlated.

    Education breeds progressivism. Conservatives abhor progressivism. Ergo they start to also dislike the root of progressivism.

    This may belong in the "Higher Education thread", but I'll start here anyway.

    I was flipping radio channels the other day, and I had recently added 1430 to catch Rome whenever I'm driving around at lunch. During the rest of the day it is conservative talk radio, and Laura Ingram is on in the mornings, so every once in a while I browse through to hear what the latest talking points are. She was discussing college demographics with someone, and bemoaning the fact that there are more and more foreign nationals coming to US colleges. She questioned that "shouldn't American colleges be for American kids?"

    It struck me as odd because of the climate of antagonism the GOP has towards education. The conclusion I came to is that because of the assault on college campuses by the GOP and the constant threat of cutting funds, colleges have been trying to find ways to find ways to keep the dollars rolling in that doesn't rely on state funding. Foreign students are a great source of that revenue because they are great students and pay out of state tuition.

    So, in a roundabout way, the assault on colleges that people like Ingram have promoted have caused the very situation she is now bemoaning. I'm not sure what she expects universities to do.

  2. #2192
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    At the moment I'd be fine with Trump just resigning and letting Pence take over. That'll never happen but I'm just signaling where I am.

    At the same time, this Snopes entry is interesting:

    The Lies of Donald Trump’s Critics, and How They Shape His Many Personas


    Please read the whole thing. All of this is evidence for the last 18 months or so being the most inglorious period in American presidential politics since the Adams-Jefferson battles in 1800. Liberals love to cast themselves as part of some noble "resistance" to Trump but I don't think that's a fair characterization.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  3. #2193
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    At the moment I'd be fine with Trump just resigning and letting Pence take over. That'll never happen but I'm just signaling where I am.

    At the same time, this Snopes entry is interesting:

    The Lies of Donald Trump’s Critics, and How They Shape His Many Personas


    Please read the whole thing. All of this is evidence for the last 18 months or so being the most inglorious period in American presidential politics since the Adams-Jefferson battles in 1800. Liberals love to cast themselves as part of some noble "resistance" to Trump but I don't think that's a fair characterization.

    As the article points out at the end, there is plenty of stuff that you can criticize about Trump, his actions, behavior and policies there is no reason to make stuff up. Truth is, there is so much of that stuff out there it is all just noise now and if people are like me they are beginning to stop paying attention to it all.

    Covfefe

  4. #2194
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    At the moment I'd be fine with Trump just resigning and letting Pence take over. That'll never happen but I'm just signaling where I am.

    At the same time, this Snopes entry is interesting:

    The Lies of Donald Trump’s Critics, and How They Shape His Many Personas


    Please read the whole thing. All of this is evidence for the last 18 months or so being the most inglorious period in American presidential politics since the Adams-Jefferson battles in 1800. Liberals love to cast themselves as part of some noble "resistance" to Trump but I don't think that's a fair characterization.
    J Q Adams-Jackson was pretty intense, as well.
    "It'd be nice to please everyone but I thought it would be more interesting to have a point of view." -- Oscar Levant

  5. #2195
    Bungled Collusion Is Still Collusion -- Charles Krauthammer in the National Review


    Read more at: http://www.nationalreview.com/articl...gled-collusion
    "It'd be nice to please everyone but I thought it would be more interesting to have a point of view." -- Oscar Levant

  6. #2196
    Quote Originally Posted by Rocker Ute View Post
    As the article points out at the end, there is plenty of stuff that you can criticize about Trump, his actions, behavior and policies there is no reason to make stuff up. Truth is, there is so much of that stuff out there it is all just noise now and if people are like me they are beginning to stop paying attention to it all.

    Covfefe
    I agree. The sheer volume, absurdity and predictable reactions of all this makes following it all like being forced to follow a really bad soap opera. I'm as big a political junkie as I know, and I'm sick of all this, and (try to) tune out for extended periods of time.

    But then I get woken up by friends from other nations, like my buddy in Germany - the biggest Ute football fan in Europe, without any doubt in my mind. The general tone is like "what are you Americans doing about all this? Don't you realize the world really needs you, and you're really blowing it?"

    Yesterday I had a great conversation with a young researcher who just graduated in Math (Stats emphasis) from the U and wants to pursue a Masters or PhD in Epidemiology. Unlike many earlier grad students from China, her English is actually quite good/excellent, she's been taking English classes since middle school, her English teachers were 3 different Americans. Extremely sharp kid.

    We talked about cancer research, we talked about Economics, we talked about her parents visiting and doing the National Park tour from SLC (Yellowstone, Bryce, etc).

    Inevitably, the topic came to Trump. She said back home "everyone" is paying very close attention to what's going on in the USA, and there's a strong sense that this may be China's opening, their time to ascend to become the most dominant nation in the world, the position they feel has been denied them forever, by foreign interlopers (Japan, the Brits, US). "Even people who've always ignored things outside China are watching everything." She was surprised I knew about the Silk Road Economic Summit held by President Xi while we were arguing over Comey getting canned.

    Very unusual young Chinese person, she's come to appreciate America and our values over what she was raised under, but has a great deal of apprehension that we're now going backward. She actually got angry in talking about how Obama applied a great deal of pressure to China to join the Paris Accord, with China finally accepting that industrial pollution is something they need to fix, and they need to be better world citizens, etc.... and then Trump just pulled the plug, and now nobody in America cares. (She comes from a city near Shanghai where pollution is a serious problem.)

    People around the world vastly overestimate Americans' ability / interest to "care" about much of what they consider important, even though we've been the defacto Superpower / global leader, for decades..

    We're kind of like Charles Barkley, pushing back on the idea NBA players had an obligation to be role models. "I didn't sign up to be a role model. I'm a basketball player." As Americans, we're so divided, and getting worn down by the array of issues we face. If the world expects us to be role models, it's time for them to take a shot at it.
    Last edited by Ma'ake; 07-15-2017 at 08:11 AM.

  7. #2197
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    Not sure Pence will help things.




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  8. #2198
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    The Trump Presidency - Life In Interesting Times

    We should've elected Marco Rubio.

    *****

    Keystone Kops Collusion

    Did Don Jr., a Russian pop star and a lawyer steal the 2016 election?

    President Trump’s critics claim to have uncovered proof, finally, of 2016 collusion between the campaign and the Kremlin. Another reading of the meeting between Donald Trump Jr. and a well-connected Russian lawyer is, well, political farce.

    In June 2016, Mr. Trump Jr. arranged an appointment in Trump Tower with the lawyer, Natalia Veselnitskaya. He said in a statement that he hoped to acquire opposition research about Hillary Clinton, and he even pulled in Trump son-in-law Jared Kushner and then campaign manager Paul Manafort. By Mr. Trump Jr.’s account, Ms. Veselnitskaya relayed nothing to compromise Mrs. Clinton and then lobbied him about the Magnitsky Act, a 2012 U.S. law that sanctions Russian human-rights abusers.

    According to the emails that Mr. Trump Jr. released Tuesday, Mr. Trump Jr. agreed to meet with Ms. Veselnitskaya after he was approached by Rob Goldstone, a publicist who offered to pass along “some official documents and information that would incriminate Hillary and her dealings with Russia and would be very useful to your father.” He wrote that this information “is part of Russia and its government’s support for Mr. Trump.”

    The appropriate response from a political competent would have been to alert the FBI if a cut-out promised material supplied by a foreign government. Mr. Trump Jr. instead replied that “if it’s what you say I love it.”

    Then again, the Trumps knew Mr. Goldstone through the Russian pop star Emin, aka Emin Agalarov, whose father partnered with Donald Trump Sr. in bringing the Miss Universe beauty pageant to Moscow in 2013. Mr. Trump Sr. appeared in a music video with Emin the same year. Mr. Goldstone said that “Emin just called and asked me to contact you with something very interesting”—info his father got from the “Crown prosecutor of Russia.” Russia’s “Crown prosecutor” doesn’t exist.

    Mr. Trump Jr. responded that “perhaps I just speak to Emin first.” Mr. Goldstone brokered the call, reporting that “Ok he’s on stage in Moscow but should be off within 20 Minutes so I am sure can call.” Subsequent messages show Emin asked Mr. Trump Jr. to meet with Ms. Veselnitskaya, who was well-known as an anti-Magnitsky operative at the time. Mr. Goldstone publicly checked into Trump Tower on Facebook during the meeting, which isn’t how a KGB man would normally conceal the handoff of state secrets.

    In the daisy chain from Russian oligarch to singer to PR go-between to lawyer to Trump scion, which is more plausible? That Don Jr. was canny enough to coordinate a global plot to rig the election but not canny enough to notice that this plot was detailed in his personal emails? Or that some Russians took advantage of a political naif named Trump in an unsuccessful bid to undermine the Magnitsky law they hated?

    The problem is that President Trump has too often made the implausible plausible by undermining his own credibility on Russia. He’s stocked his cabinet with Russia hawks but dallied with characters like the legendary Beltway bandit Mr. Manafort or the conspiratorialist Roger Stone. His Syrian bombing and energy policy are tough on Russia, but Mr. Trump thinks that if he says Russia interfered in 2016 he will play into the Democratic narrative that his victory is illegitimate.

    Thus in retrospect the John Podesta and Democratic National Committee hacks—still so far the tangible extent of Russian meddling—did less damage to U.S. democracy than it has done to the Trump Presidency. The person who should be maddest about the Russian hacks is Mr. Trump.

    Appeared in the July 12, 2017, print edition.

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/keyston...14375?mod=e2fb
    Last edited by LA Ute; 07-16-2017 at 08:46 AM.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  9. #2199
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    And another reminder of how the presidency can be:

    Presidents Bush and Clinton: Be humble in victory, responsible with power

    http://mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN19Z02N

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  10. #2200
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    The Trump Presidency - Life In Interesting Times

    You're all asleep (I hope) so I'll post away while waiting around here in Scotland.

    The public learned on March 10, 2015 that Hillary Clinton had more than 60,000 emails on her private email system, and that she had turned over “about half” of them to the State Department and destroyed the rest, which she said were “personal” and “not in any way related” to her work as Secretary of State.

    The public learned later the lengths to which Clinton went to make sure the “personal” emails were completely and permanently deleted. Her team used a commercial-strength program called BleachBit to erase all traces of the emails, and they used hammers to physically destroy mobile devices that might have had the emails on them. The person who did the actual deleting later cited legal privileges and the Fifth Amendment to avoid talking to the FBI and Congress.

    Clinton’s lawyer, David Kendall, told Rep. Trey Gowdy, chairman of the House Benghazi Committee, that investigators could forget about finding any of those emails, whether on a device or a server or anywhere. Sorry, Trey, he said; they’re all gone.

    It was, as the New York Times’ Mark Landler said in August 2016, the “original sin” of the Clinton email affair — that Clinton herself, and no independent body, unilaterally decided which emails she would hand over to the State Department and which she would delete.

    Still, there were people who did not believe that Clinton’s deleted emails, all 30,000-plus of them, were truly gone. What is ever truly gone on the Internet? And what if Clinton were not telling the truth? What if she deleted emails covering more than just personal matters? In that event, recovering the emails would have rocked the 2016 presidential campaign.

    So, if there were an enormous trove of information potentially harmful to a presidential candidate just sitting out there — what opposing campaign wouldn’t want to find it?
    http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/by...form=hootsuite

    Read the whole thing. Quite interesting.

    The problem is the way the Trumpies went after the information -- essentially getting involved in espionage by a hostile power.
    Last edited by LA Ute; 07-17-2017 at 06:49 AM.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  11. #2201
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    "Even if the ultimate truth of this tale is merely that Don Jr. is a political dunce who took a meeting that went nowhere—the best case—the Trumps made it appear as if they have something to hide. They have created the appearance of a conspiracy that on the evidence Don Jr. lacks the wit to concoct. And they handed their opponents another of the swords that by now could arm a Roman legion."

    The Trumps and the Truth

    https://www.wsj.com/article_email/th...TE0OTExMTk2Wj/

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  12. #2202
    Again, "useful idiot" perfectly answers all the questions surrounding the Trump admin.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  13. #2203
    Example 1:

    "As I have always said, we must Repeal, and Replace with something better..." - Trump, yesterday, telling the GOP Senators they need to cancel their August recess.

    2 Days Before: "Repeal only! We'll can replace later."

    Example 2: "This Russia thing is a made up story, it's totally fake". But when he gets the chance, he ditches the President of Japan, who he was supposed to dine and converse with, and goes off to a meeting with Putin, Putin's translator and nobody else from the American side. McMaster and others in Trump's national security mini-club, warned him it was a bad idea to engage with Putin without a lot of seasoned minds nearby.

    Yesterday he expressed regret at Sessions' recusing himself on the Russia investigation, said he would have never hired him if he knew Sessions would do that, and he warned Mueller that "family is off limits" in the investigation.

    Example 3: "I have no dealings with Russia at all, only the Miss Universe pageant". But Jr. and Eric - aka "Uday and Qusay", according to Bill Maher - have revealed extensive Russian economic connections of the Trump empire, and Mueller is poised to blow the top off that bald-faced lie.

    All of this is exactly what Tony Schwartz - ghost writer of "Art of the Deal" - told us all about, when he felt he had to disclose what he knew of Trump, before the inevitable cease and desist got to him.

    Is it gas-lighting? Ivana and Marla Maples would have some interesting insight, if they were willing to risk their money flow. Is it just Narcissistic Personality Disorder, on steroids?

    The biggest question... directed at Republicans.... is this sustainable? I really don't think Republicans have any idea how much damage is being done to their brand.

  14. #2204
    Administrator U-Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ma'ake View Post
    The biggest question... directed at Republicans.... is this sustainable? I really don't think Republicans have any idea how much damage is being done to their brand.
    I think most Republicans in Washington have already figured out that this isn't sustainable. They are doing their best to work around him. Primarily by getting things done while everyone is preoccupied with what Trump is doing.

    Using him as their useful idiot.

  15. #2205
    Quote Originally Posted by U-Ute View Post
    I think most Republicans in Washington have already figured out that this isn't sustainable. They are doing their best to work around him. Primarily by getting things done while everyone is preoccupied with what Trump is doing.

    Using him as their useful idiot.
    I think you're right, but for swing district Republicans, they should be thinking about what they want to do after serving in Congress... because that date is coming up.

    I was thinking more from a national perspective. How does leadership pull the nation forward after China has inarguably moved past us - did anyone read about how the Chinese stone-walled Trump yesterday? - and the G-19 increasingly just sort of ignore us? Presumably we'll still converse about a false narrative of American Exceptionalism for awhile, then the conversation will pivot to how to just make things more tolerable.

    The opiod epidemic is the canary.

  16. #2206
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ma'ake View Post
    I think you're right, but for swing district Republicans, they should be thinking about what they want to do after serving in Congress... because that date is coming up.

    I was thinking more from a national perspective. How does leadership pull the nation forward after China has inarguably moved past us - did anyone read about how the Chinese stone-walled Trump yesterday? - and the G-19 increasingly just sort of ignore us? Presumably we'll still converse about a false narrative of American Exceptionalism for awhile, then the conversation will pivot to how to just make things more tolerable.

    The opiod epidemic is the canary.
    Buckle down and plan for 2020.

  17. #2207
    Quote Originally Posted by Ma'ake View Post
    I think you're right, but for swing district Republicans, they should be thinking about what they want to do after serving in Congress... because that date is coming up.

    I was thinking more from a national perspective. How does leadership pull the nation forward after China has inarguably moved past us - did anyone read about how the Chinese stone-walled Trump yesterday? - and the G-19 increasingly just sort of ignore us? Presumably we'll still converse about a false narrative of American Exceptionalism for awhile, then the conversation will pivot to how to just make things more tolerable.

    The opiod epidemic is the canary.
    Sorry, Ma'ake but this doesn't make sense. You pivot from china to the opiod epidemic and you totally lost me. We either are a superpower or we aren't. We don't just lose it because a guy like Trump comes along for 4 years. China is growing more prosperous and has 2 billion people. They ARE going to become the next superpower regardless. But as long as we keep inventing, innovating and attracting the best and brightest and have a market system that allows for and rewards innovation we will continue to be a superpower. New York is the center of the financial universe. Silicon Valley is the center of the technology universe. When that ends, then we are done.


    The reality is that sooner or later we will run out of the resources necessary to police and influence the world (already happening) and like the British Empire, our influence will wane. Trump will be just a footnote in history. In fact our influence world wide waned immensely under Barack Obama's 8 years in office. Shit, the Chinese wouldn't even recognize him.
    Last edited by Two Utes; 07-20-2017 at 02:58 PM.

  18. #2208
    Motorboatin' SOB Devildog's Avatar
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    In my lifetime... Russia was going to destroy us... Japan was going to rule the world...now China is inevitable... Uh huh...OK.
    "We should remember that one man is much the same as another, and that he is best who is trained in the severest school."
    -Thucydides


    "Study strategy over the years and achieve the spirit of the warrior. Today is victory over yourself of yesterday; tomorrow is your victory over lesser men."
    -Miyamoto Musashi

    Si vis pacem, para bellum

  19. #2209
    prediction: dementia diagnosis will keep Trump out of prison.

  20. #2210
    Quote Originally Posted by Two Utes View Post
    Sorry, Ma'ake but this doesn't make sense. You pivot from china to the opiod epidemic and you totally lost me. We either are a superpower or we aren't. We don't just lose it because a guy like Trump comes along for 4 years. China is growing more prosperous and has 2 billion people. They ARE going to become the next superpower regardless. But as long as we keep inventing, innovating and attracting the best and brightest and have a market system that allows for and rewards innovation we will continue to be a superpower. New York is the center of the financial universe. Silicon Valley is the center of the technology universe. When that ends, then we are done.


    The reality is that sooner or later we will run out of the resources necessary to police and influence the world (already happening) and like the British Empire, our influence will wane. Trump will be just a footnote in history. In fact our influence world wide waned immensely under Barack Obama's 8 years in office. Shit, the Chinese wouldn't even recognize him.
    The opiod epidemic is largely a result of our lower middle class getting hammered economically, which is inevitable given globalization and the rise of other nations after our Post WWII economic hegemony. China is destined to surpass us in total economic output, but as you point out, we've been a superpower in large part based on our ideals, our ability to innovate, attract talented immigrants, etc. (Remember, it was Steve Bannon who told Trump in a TV interview 2-3 years ago that "there are too many Asian CEOs in Silicon Valley".)

    Agree on us not being able to be conventional military power globally indefinitely, but if we pivot toward high-tech drones, our tax payers may be able to shoulder that burden, longer. The F-35 is some amazing technology, but do we have the tax base and willingness to pay for all of them?

    Devil Dog scores points for previous boogie men being the Soviets, then the Japanese (economically) and now I'm tagging China as the rising superpower, though I think we'll have a multi-polar world for awhile, as China is not ready to truly *lead* the world, as there is too much distrust, and they don't have a demonstrated history of standing up for widely popular ideals, like personal freedoms, willingness to protect them, respect for other nations, etc. We've been the defacto leader for a long time, for most of the world since the end of WWII, and then after the fall of the Soviets, more came aboard.

    You make a good point about China trying to unsettle Obama early, a clear lack of respect / racist ploy to establish dominance. It didn't work, and the Chinese were very angry about the US testing their waters in the South China Sea dispute. They didn't like it, especially coming from a black man, but never engaged, because they knew they'd lose. Obama didn't initiate military action either, waiting for China's neighbors to come together in resolve to stand up to their claims. It's gotta be a team effort.

    Ever day brings new eye-brow raisers, and this evenings is from the WaPo (via MSN) http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politi...cid=spartanntp

    *IF* the essence of this report is accurate, Trump's lawyers are exploring how to squelch Mueller's investigation, how they can pardon the family members, and how Trump can pardon himself, but I think it's not an "on the way out" kind of situation, but more of "I'm above the law, and we're going to end the Russian investigation, and if anything comes up, I'm already pardoned, so there's nothing to do about it, so give up. I'm your leader, and the Russian thing is over because I say so, and it's none of your business, anyway."

    Whereas Nixon might have tried to pardon himself, it would have been "on the way out", where with Trump there's a different vibe, as in "how can I squash this problem, pre-emptively pardon myself, my family and my inner circle, but remain in power to continue the fight?"

  21. #2211
    Woke up this morning to see a BBC interview with Russian foreign minister Sergei Lavrov, who hinted there may have been a fourth meeting between Trump and Putin at the G20 summit. (His English is quite good, by the way.)

    Nothing the Russians say or do is off the cuff, so what is the motivation for making this suggestion, to the BBC? Are the Russians starting to turn up the heat on Trump? They want their spy compounds back, in NY and Maryland. They want sanctions eased.

    This is fascinating to watch...

  22. #2212
    Spicer to quit. SNL cast grieves.....

    http://www.sltrib.com/home/5535812-1...ry-sean-spicer
    “Children and dogs are as necessary to the welfare of the country as Wall Street and the railroads.” -- Harry S. Truman

    "You never soar so high as when you stoop down to help a child or an animal." -- Jewish Proverb

    "Three-time Pro Bowler Eric Weddle the most versatile, and maybe most intelligent, safety in the game." -- SI, 9/7/15, p. 107.

  23. #2213
    Quote Originally Posted by Ma'ake View Post
    The opiod epidemic is largely a result of our lower middle class getting hammered economically, which is inevitable given globalization and the rise of other nations after our Post WWII economic hegemony. China is destined to surpass us in total economic output, but as you point out, we've been a superpower in large part based on our ideals, our ability to innovate, attract talented immigrants, etc. (Remember, it was Steve Bannon who told Trump in a TV interview 2-3 years ago that "there are too many Asian CEOs in Silicon Valley".)

    Agree on us not being able to be conventional military power globally indefinitely, but if we pivot toward high-tech drones, our tax payers may be able to shoulder that burden, longer. The F-35 is some amazing technology, but do we have the tax base and willingness to pay for all of them?

    Devil Dog scores points for previous boogie men being the Soviets, then the Japanese (economically) and now I'm tagging China as the rising superpower, though I think we'll have a multi-polar world for awhile, as China is not ready to truly *lead* the world, as there is too much distrust, and they don't have a demonstrated history of standing up for widely popular ideals, like personal freedoms, willingness to protect them, respect for other nations, etc. We've been the defacto leader for a long time, for most of the world since the end of WWII, and then after the fall of the Soviets, more came aboard.

    You make a good point about China trying to unsettle Obama early, a clear lack of respect / racist ploy to establish dominance. It didn't work, and the Chinese were very angry about the US testing their waters in the South China Sea dispute. They didn't like it, especially coming from a black man, but never engaged, because they knew they'd lose. Obama didn't initiate military action either, waiting for China's neighbors to come together in resolve to stand up to their claims. It's gotta be a team effort.

    Ever day brings new eye-brow raisers, and this evenings is from the WaPo (via MSN) http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politi...cid=spartanntp

    *IF* the essence of this report is accurate, Trump's lawyers are exploring how to squelch Mueller's investigation, how they can pardon the family members, and how Trump can pardon himself, but I think it's not an "on the way out" kind of situation, but more of "I'm above the law, and we're going to end the Russian investigation, and if anything comes up, I'm already pardoned, so there's nothing to do about it, so give up. I'm your leader, and the Russian thing is over because I say so, and it's none of your business, anyway."

    Whereas Nixon might have tried to pardon himself, it would have been "on the way out", where with Trump there's a different vibe, as in "how can I squash this problem, pre-emptively pardon myself, my family and my inner circle, but remain in power to continue the fight?"
    Very good points. I hope you don't think I am defending Trump because I'm a Trump supporter. I'm not. But the demise of the USA is going to happen regardless of who our president is, particularly with a behemoth like China lurking. I think you are overstating the effect of Trump.


    But, if the world despises the US and its policies, wait til they have to deal with the Chinese. They will long for the days when the US was the only superpower. I know we've propped up some bad regimes, but we haven't come close to propping up a regime like North Korea. China hasn't even started its world-wide prowess and we already know that they could give a shit less about anything other than protecting China's interest at any cost.

    We've dealt with drug issues before and will continue to do so. But, Europe and Asia can't continue to expect us to police the world for free forever, Problem is, we can't trust Europe (read Germany) and Asia (read Japan).

  24. #2214
    Administrator U-Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ma'ake View Post
    Whereas Nixon might have tried to pardon himself, it would have been "on the way out", where with Trump there's a different vibe, as in "how can I squash this problem, pre-emptively pardon myself, my family and my inner circle, but remain in power to continue the fight?"
    Trump seems to be of the mindset of "what's the use of having all this power if I can't use it?"

    Similar to his view on bombs.

  25. #2215
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    "For me, the major criminal that exists in the United States of America is called Donald Trump, he lives at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue at the White House," Gutierrez said to the congregation. "And we're going to take actions today, and we're going to take actions tomorrow. And there will soon be a majority in the House of Representatives, and I'm going to make sure that I am there to make sure of one thing, that we write those articles of impeachment and take him to trial before the Senate and eliminate him as president of the United States of America."

    --Congressman Luis Gutierrez,
    in a sermon at Chicago's Lincoln United Methodist Church on Saturday.

    https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2017/07/24/rep_gutierrez_when_democrats_take_majority_were_go ing_to_eliminate_trump.html

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  26. #2216
    Quote Originally Posted by Two Utes View Post
    Very good points. I hope you don't think I am defending Trump because I'm a Trump supporter. I'm not. But the demise of the USA is going to happen regardless of who our president is, particularly with a behemoth like China lurking. I think you are overstating the effect of Trump.


    But, if the world despises the US and its policies, wait til they have to deal with the Chinese. They will long for the days when the US was the only superpower. I know we've propped up some bad regimes, but we haven't come close to propping up a regime like North Korea. China hasn't even started its world-wide prowess and we already know that they could give a shit less about anything other than protecting China's interest at any cost.

    We've dealt with drug issues before and will continue to do so. But, Europe and Asia can't continue to expect us to police the world for free forever, Problem is, we can't trust Europe (read Germany) and Asia (read Japan).
    I agree with most of your points, here. China's not ready to be the sole superpower, and the world is not ready for them to have that role. I think it's a multi-polar world in the near future, based on current directions. What is really interesting is will China "learn" from others' mistakes. They seem to be in a quiet position right now, adhering to the political rule that "when your opponent is in the process of destroying themselves, STAY OFF THE STAGE!"

    China has gone from a period of extreme insularity under Mao, to measured engagement with the world, economically, beginning with Deng Xiao Peng, to (apparently) starting to realize they might just become the world's most powerful nation, and realizing there is a lot of external responsibility, relations with other nations, etc, that goes along with that role. They're not ready for it, but they seem to be absorbing a lot of what is going on, around the world.

    Militarily, China has a loooong way to go to engage the US with conventional military hardware, so I think they'll continue to rapidly build up their conventional might - more aircraft carriers - but they'll be looking for what military might looks like in the year 2030 and beyond - drones, high-tech weapons, cyber war, etc.

    Germany has largely become extremely averse to the factors that got them into two world wars. Japan is still a powerful economy, but their demographics are scary, with a birthrate that is well below replacement levels. They're shrinking.

    The poles that will makeup world geopolitics in the near future are still emerging, but I think Europe will be strong, the US will be strong but no longer hegemonic, Russia is growing in power, and China will be growing into their increasingly visible role as the (soon to be) greatest economic power.

  27. #2217
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Last edited by LA Ute; 07-25-2017 at 05:36 PM.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  28. #2218
    Don't you agree though that that was one of the most bizarre speeches to the BSA ever? Of all the opportunities to hit a softball out of the park in a speech... He should have called me I would have given him what I said at a recent Eagle Court of Honor.

  29. #2219
    Quote Originally Posted by Rocker Ute View Post
    Don't you agree though that that was one of the most bizarre speeches to the BSA ever? Of all the opportunities to hit a softball out of the park in a speech... He should have called me I would have given him what I said at a recent Eagle Court of Honor.
    Nothing during his campaign ever indicated that President Trump has even a single character strength. Nothing during his presidency has revealed anything positive about the man. It would be absolutely shocking for him to say or do the right thing at a Boy Scout jamboree or in any other setting.

  30. #2220
    Trump kicking out / disallowing transgendered people from the military will be followed by it being deemed OK to bully of effeminate boys in the Boy Scouts. Femmy boys are tranny wannabes - duh! (Whose voice is more powerful - the President of the United States, or your pseudo-loser scout leader - who wouldn't be stuck with a bunch of asshat kids if he ran a business or had serious amounts of money.)

    We all played "smear the queer". It's a great bonding experience, and it's important to find groups to marginalize... like Mormon kids in small Texas towns, whose parents have the ACLU come and wreck religious freedom, just because the student body "prayor" called on Jesus to help the Mormon kids and Catholic kids find the true path back to Jesus... before a football game. http://www.mormonstoday.com/000402/N...Prayer02.shtml

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