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Thread: The Trump Presidency - Life In Interesting Times

  1. #2251
    Every administration since Nixon has always been careful to make sure there is no direct connection to the president. That's why guys like Scooter Libby go down.

    Trump isn't smart enough to do that, and so again the question of why the need to cover up and why the need for him to manage that cover-up directly?

    This latest revelation about him dictating the release for his son weakens my "useful idiot" theory about Trump quite a bit.


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  2. #2252
    Quote Originally Posted by Rocker Ute View Post
    Every administration since Nixon has always been careful to make sure there is no direct connection to the president. That's why guys like Scooter Libby go down.

    Trump isn't smart enough to do that, and so again the question of why the need to cover up and why the need for him to manage that cover-up directly?

    This latest revelation about him dictating the release for his son weakens my "useful idiot" theory about Trump quite a bit.


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    Is he not smart enough or so arrogant that he believes he will get away with it.

  3. #2253
    Putin kicking out the diplomats wasn't his retaliation; it was his warning shot. If Trump signs*, Putin unleashes the dirt.

    *or just does nothing

  4. #2254
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    I really like this. It pretty much reflects the way I see the matter.

    Don’t Let the Left Define Conservative Opposition to Trump

    http://www.nationalreview.com/articl...-values-virtue

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  5. #2255
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jrj84105 View Post
    Putin kicking out the diplomats wasn't his retaliation; it was his warning shot. If Trump signs*, Putin unleashes the dirt.

    *or just does nothing
    This sounds like something Joe McCarthy would've said in the 1950s. And I don't even like Trump.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  6. #2256
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    This sounds like something Joe McCarthy would've said in the 1950s. And I don't even like Trump.
    And if McCarthy were alive today he might prove the dictum of even the broken clock being right twice a day.

    What pray tell is your explanation for Trump's delayed signing of the sanctions bill? Not his justification mind you, but his reason.

    I think there are other possible explanations, primarily that Trump is dependent on Putin's approval for validation. Trump is a narcissist who intrinsically knows that he is fundamentally broken. He uses wealth or the appearance of wealth to try and convince himself otherwise, even though there can never be enough to overcome his defect.

    And he knows he'll never reach the top, because smart guys like Gates and Bezos occupy the top spots and he simply doesn't understand a technological, global world that is passing him by. That's where he and his base really aren't that different.

    And then there's Putin. A guy who no doubt casts himself to Trump as being cut from the same cloth and presents to Trump a blueprint for reaching the top through the political sphere. Trump has to buy in, because that's the only thing that promises a fix for his fragile ego. If Putin, his role model fails, what hope has Trump?

    Or he pees on hookers. Both seem plausible.
    Last edited by jrj84105; 08-01-2017 at 07:49 PM.

  7. #2257
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    I really like this. It pretty much reflects the way I see the matter.

    Don’t Let the Left Define Conservative Opposition to Trump

    http://www.nationalreview.com/articl...-values-virtue
    LaUte, serious question: I saw a poll on the news the other night (pbs. Not sure if they are fake news or whatever), that said 86% of repubs approve of the job Trump has done so far. 86%!!!!! Help me understand this number because I live in a world where Trump's approval rating is zero.

  8. #2258
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    The Trump Presidency - Life In Interesting Times

    Quote Originally Posted by Applejack View Post
    LaUte, serious question: I saw a poll on the news the other night (pbs. Not sure if they are fake news or whatever), that said 86% of repubs approve of the job Trump has done so far. 86%!!!!! Help me understand this number because I live in a world where Trump's approval rating is zero.
    For me the proposition is pretty simple. You don't have to like a politician personally to support some (or even many) of his policy positions. I can hardly stand Trump, and I did not vote for him, but he's got the presidency, and the business of the government has to be done. I did not like or respect Bill Clinton either, but I supported a number of his policy positions. I don't think this is controversial.

    Also, you should consider whether you might be living in a Pauline Kael bubble like many of my Washington, D.C., partners. You need to get out more, AJ!

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  9. #2259
    But even if you are supportive of his policy positions he seems completely unable to even execute them. Other than a successful Supreme Court nomination I truly am unable to think of anything that he has successfully done. Well I guess the watered down immigration ban. But there has been no tangible tax reform, no modification or repeal of Obamacare, no progress on "the wall". I am not sure what his foreign policy is except isolation, offense and alienation. We've got North Korea now a nuclear nation threatening to bomb us. The entire White House admin appears to be in complete disarray, and despite the denials that everything is actually great it is hard to believe. Plus they seem to be tripping over themselves to make themselves look guilty with this whole Russia thing.

    I can't believe that Obama had a 90% approval rate among Dems, just like I can't believe the 84% among Repubs for Trump, and I can get the notion that you've expressed a few time LA about not liking the man but liking the policies... but what are they and when are they going to be done?

    For simple self-preservation sake I hope he gets his house in order but it is hard to see him getting a grade better than F right now. You guys know I am absolutely not a supporter of Obama either but I could give him a grade of D+/C-.


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  10. #2260
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    For me the proposition is pretty simple. You don't have to like a politician personally to support some (or even many) of his policy positions. I can hardly stand Trump, and I did not vote for him, but he's got the presidency, and the business of the government has to be done. I did not like or respect Bill Clinton either, but I supported a number of his policy positions. I don't think this is controversial.

    Also, you should consider whether you might be living in a Pauline Kael bubble like many of my Washington, D.C., partners. You need to get out more, AJ!
    Thanks for not answering! Very Trump-like of you.

    MY question is how 86% of Repubs approve of Trump. I understand that a number of people will support him when he shoots someone on 5th Avenue, but 86%?

  11. #2261
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    The Trump Presidency - Life In Interesting Times

    Quote Originally Posted by Applejack View Post
    Thanks for not answering! Very Trump-like of you.

    MY question is how 86% of Repubs approve of Trump. I understand that a number of people will support him when he shoots someone on 5th Avenue, but 86%?
    I missed your question, which was not expressed in a very pointed way. The answer is, I don't know. I am a Republican and I would not answer any poll stating that I approve of Donald Trump's performance as president. I don't know how the poll question was phrased. Maybe people are generally expressing the idea that "I'd rather have Trump as president than Clinton."

    You've already said that you "live in a world where Trump's approval rating is zero." Holy East Coast bubble, Batman! I just wonder if you're taking it to the next step. You are not one of those who believe that if one detests Trump as an individual, one must oppose every policy initiative Trump supports, are you?

    Meanwhile, here is a not particularly flattering article from The Atlantic listing Trump's accomplishments for president:

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.the...rticle/535458/

    And here's how Snopes sees it:

    http://www.snopes.com/everything-don...-accomplished/

    In terms of truthfulness, Snopes sees the reports of Trump's successes as "mixed ."
    Last edited by LA Ute; 08-02-2017 at 10:29 AM.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  12. #2262
    I'm not automatically opposed to the limits on legal immigration advocated by Trump. What are the arguments in favor and what are the arguments against. I visit a lot of National Parks and I am always surprised at the number of foreign college age kids working there. A few years ago I rented a Park City condo to 6 kids, two from Columbia, 2 from Poland and 2 from the Czech Republic who were recruited to work at the Olympic Park. They were great kids and were hard workers. In addition to working their 40 hour week at the Olympic Park, they each got a job to work at Burger King. They do this at the ski resorts as well. Park City could hire a bunch of similar aged kids from along the Wasatch front if they would have 10 busses that pick up and drop off at various trax stations. Why are we recruiting kids from foreign countries and not from the US?

  13. #2263
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    The Trump Presidency - Life In Interesting Times

    Without Priebus, Trump Is a Man Without a Party
    By ousting Reince Priebus, the president is severing one of his few remaining ties to the GOP.

    http://www.politico.com/magazine/sto...unbound-215440

    He just used the GOP as a vehicle.



    We coulda had Marco.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  14. #2264
    Quote Originally Posted by UTEopia View Post
    I'm not automatically opposed to the limits on legal immigration advocated by Trump. What are the arguments in favor and what are the arguments against. I visit a lot of National Parks and I am always surprised at the number of foreign college age kids working there. A few years ago I rented a Park City condo to 6 kids, two from Columbia, 2 from Poland and 2 from the Czech Republic who were recruited to work at the Olympic Park. They were great kids and were hard workers. In addition to working their 40 hour week at the Olympic Park, they each got a job to work at Burger King. They do this at the ski resorts as well. Park City could hire a bunch of similar aged kids from along the Wasatch front if they would have 10 busses that pick up and drop off at various trax stations. Why are we recruiting kids from foreign countries and not from the US?
    Truthful answer, kids from the Wasatch Front don't want to do the work those guys are doing.

    A side note but Park City has a real labor problem because nobody can afford to live there who they need. The majority of the laborers live in Heber City or do what you describe and have 8 guys in a tiny rental.

    I used to commute to PC for years, I planned on a tank of gas a week, so $40-$80/week or $160-$320/mo. That's a chunk of change when you are making $12/hour.

    And American kids don't need to bother with that stuff. Hence the laborers from foreign countries.

    A contractor I know once told me that he didn't like hiring white guys because they complained about everything and didn't know how to work. When it comes to the labor market I've yet to see that statement disproven.



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  15. #2265
    Quote Originally Posted by Rocker Ute View Post
    ......Other than a successful Supreme Court nomination I truly am unable to think of anything that he has successfully done......
    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

    Granted, he doesn't have a lot of wins beyond Gorsuch, but, he has a few: he's nominated a bunch of other federal judges some of which have been confirmed (not a lot of media sizzle, but super important accomplishments for ANY presidents legacy), I'd consider the current state of the economy/stock market positive, decrease in illegals crossing the southern border & cutting into ISIS territory (if only optically), dropping MOAB as a symbolic gesture, shoring up relations with Israel, pulling out of the PARIS accord (depending on your view of such things) and somehow, he's able to get democrats to chase shadows down rat holes. Midterm elections will be a fascinating time in history. Will the democrats take advantage of an oppty served them on a silver platter, or will the constant drum of Russian collusion, and lack of agenda cost them valuable seats in Congress? As of now, I'm guessing it'll look like this..........although there's still some time for them to get it together.

    Anyway, I think his Presidency has been more nuanced than simply one high profile accomplishment -- "Gorsuch".

    Having said that, yes, the results are in, Trump is a trainwreck as a human being. But, I'd still like him to have success in entitlement reform, torts reform, tax reform & a real move towards a balanced budget before he gets booted out of office in four years. Hopefully, John Thune will be ready to go by then.
    “Children and dogs are as necessary to the welfare of the country as Wall Street and the railroads.” -- Harry S. Truman

    "You never soar so high as when you stoop down to help a child or an animal." -- Jewish Proverb

    "Three-time Pro Bowler Eric Weddle the most versatile, and maybe most intelligent, safety in the game." -- SI, 9/7/15, p. 107.

  16. #2266
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mUUser View Post
    Anyway, I think his Presidency has been more nuanced than simply one high profile accomplishment -- "Gorsuch".

    Having said that, yes, the results are in, Trump is a trainwreck as a human being. But, I'd still like him to have success in entitlement reform, torts reform, tax reform & a real move towards a balanced budget before he gets booted out of office in four years. Hopefully, John Thune will be ready to go by then.
    Well said. But I want Rubio to rise from the ashes.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  17. #2267
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    The press thinks it’s just observing, but it’s also a character in this drama. It has a picture of itself, honed by none other than Robert Redford and Dustin Hoffman, speaking truth to power and bringing down a presidency for the good of the American people. During Democratic administrations, the kind that don’t beg for bringing down, the Redfords and Hoffmans of the press are content to take a few years quietly indulging in some small, indy projects, playing an important but smaller role in our democracy. When a Republican president is elected, however, they’re back to big-budget summer blockbusters all day every day.

    What is this “Vanity Fair” feature, after all, if not a standard “Vanity Fair” feature usually reserved for an A-list box-office star? The press is happy to be that invigorated, energetic star again, now that America has elected the kind of power to whom it loves to speak truth. There they are, auditioning for “All the President’s Men” in their tasteful Anne Klein dresses and schlumpy suits. At least we are spared the wide ties and plaid pants.

    I used to say during Obama’s presidency, one good reason to elect a Republican is because the press might care about abuse of federal power again and actually report on it. Trump gives them plenty to work with and Americans to be wary of. But I’d prefer they go about it with the recognition that not everything’s an 11 or necessarily a conspiracy, and with self-reflection instead of self-congratulation.
    http://thefederalist.com/2017/08/02/...tes-the-press/

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  18. #2268
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/...b0cb4fc1c73c22

    Add Mormons to the list of reasons why Clinton didn't win the election ... my-land, Democrats and liberals confound me.
    Last edited by tooblue; 08-02-2017 at 03:03 PM.

  19. #2269
    Quote Originally Posted by mUUser View Post
    Granted, he doesn't have a lot of wins beyond Gorsuch, but, he has a few: he's nominated a bunch of other federal judges some of which have been confirmed (not a lot of media sizzle, but super important accomplishments for ANY presidents legacy), I'd consider the current state of the economy/stock market positive, decrease in illegals crossing the southern border & cutting into ISIS territory (if only optically), dropping MOAB as a symbolic gesture, shoring up relations with Israel, pulling out of the PARIS accord (depending on your view of such things) and somehow, he's able to get democrats to chase shadows down rat holes. Midterm elections will be a fascinating time in history. Will the democrats take advantage of an oppty served them on a silver platter, or will the constant drum of Russian collusion, and lack of agenda cost them valuable seats in Congress? As of now, I'm guessing it'll look like this..........although there's still some time for them to get it together.

    Anyway, I think his Presidency has been more nuanced than simply one high profile accomplishment -- "Gorsuch".

    Having said that, yes, the results are in, Trump is a trainwreck as a human being. But, I'd still like him to have success in entitlement reform, torts reform, tax reform & a real move towards a balanced budget before he gets booted out of office in four years. Hopefully, John Thune will be ready to go by then.
    If you think Trump is going to work towards a balanced budget you're going to be waiting a long time.


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  20. #2270
    Quote Originally Posted by Rocker Ute View Post
    Truthful answer, kids from the Wasatch Front don't want to do the work those guys are doing.

    A side note but Park City has a real labor problem because nobody can afford to live there who they need. The majority of the laborers live in Heber City or do what you describe and have 8 guys in a tiny rental.

    I used to commute to PC for years, I planned on a tank of gas a week, so $40-$80/week or $160-$320/mo. That's a chunk of change when you are making $12/hour.

    And American kids don't need to bother with that stuff. Hence the laborers from foreign countries.

    A contractor I know once told me that he didn't like hiring white guys because they complained about everything and didn't know how to work. When it comes to the labor market I've yet to see that statement disproven.



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    Rocker is right on the money.

    My dad has retired and now works mowing fairways and greens at a country club in salt lake. As he was the head guy at a golf course and school district grounds division for 40+ years he knows the hiring end well.

    The country club he works at now can't find people to work on the grounds crew. The public courses can't either.

    When I was in high school and college there were dozens of us wanting those jobs. Now? They don't even get applicants.

    Times have changed.


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  21. #2271
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diehard Ute View Post
    When I was in high school and college there were dozens of us wanting those jobs. Now? They don't even get applicants.

    Times have changed.


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    When I was in high school I mowed the greens at Rose Park golf course. It was one of the greatest jobs I ever had, although as a result of riding around all day in a tank top and no sunscreen during the summer, I probably will suffer from various basal cell carcinomas as I age. But I really loved the job

    Times really have changed. I remember mowing lawns as a young teenager. I had one lawn a day during the summer, and got a dollar for every lawn, except for one wealthy guy in Federal Heights who paid me five dollars. (He had a really cool electric mower too. Most of the other mowers were gas-powered; I even used a couple of hand mowers, which actually cut the grass cleaner and neater.) I thought I was rich. I learned how to work. I know I'm talking about the good all days, but those really were good days and I think it made a difference in my life. I even used hand clippers on the edges of the lawn. Does anyone remember those?

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  22. #2272
    If you haven't already watched this, you should really watch this. This is how you explain your policies when you don't have an explanation for your policies.

    https://youtu.be/kSJ-gS7lmyw


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  23. #2273
    Quote Originally Posted by Dwight Schr-Ute View Post
    If you haven't already watched this, you should really watch this. This is how you explain your policies when you don't have an explanation for your policies.

    https://youtu.be/kSJ-gS7lmyw


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

    "Statue of Liberty Poem Law of the Land" -- that made me chuckle.
    “Children and dogs are as necessary to the welfare of the country as Wall Street and the railroads.” -- Harry S. Truman

    "You never soar so high as when you stoop down to help a child or an animal." -- Jewish Proverb

    "Three-time Pro Bowler Eric Weddle the most versatile, and maybe most intelligent, safety in the game." -- SI, 9/7/15, p. 107.

  24. #2274
    Quote Originally Posted by mUUser View Post
    Granted, he doesn't have a lot of wins beyond Gorsuch, but, he has a few: he's nominated a bunch of other federal judges some of which have been confirmed (not a lot of media sizzle, but super important accomplishments for ANY presidents legacy), I'd consider the current state of the economy/stock market positive, decrease in illegals crossing the southern border & cutting into ISIS territory (if only optically), dropping MOAB as a symbolic gesture, shoring up relations with Israel, pulling out of the PARIS accord (depending on your view of such things) and somehow, he's able to get democrats to chase shadows down rat holes. Midterm elections will be a fascinating time in history. Will the democrats take advantage of an oppty served them on a silver platter, or will the constant drum of Russian collusion, and lack of agenda cost them valuable seats in Congress? As of now, I'm guessing it'll look like this..........although there's still some time for them to get it together.

    Anyway, I think his Presidency has been more nuanced than simply one high profile accomplishment -- "Gorsuch".

    Having said that, yes, the results are in, Trump is a trainwreck as a human being. But, I'd still like him to have success in entitlement reform, torts reform, tax reform & a real move towards a balanced budget before he gets booted out of office in four years. Hopefully, John Thune will be ready to go by then.
    While I don't agree with all the things you cite as progress and others are hard to really attribute to him, I'll give them to you. For me his deep personal flaws and swirling controversy have severely hobbled their ability to do anything. And I guess I expect a little more from our president then his ability to order the dropping of a essentially symbolic bomb.

    I strongly doubt his ability to get any of the reforms you noted. He got nothing on healthcare and I think more Republicans are going to break rank as things move along to preserve their own elections.




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  25. #2275
    Quote Originally Posted by Rocker Ute View Post
    While I don't agree with all the things you cite as progress and others are hard to really attribute to him, I'll give them to you. For me his deep personal flaws and swirling controversy have severely hobbled their ability to do anything. And I guess I expect a little more from our president then his ability to order the dropping of a essentially symbolic bomb.

    I strongly doubt his ability to get any of the reforms you noted. He got nothing on healthcare and I think more Republicans are going to break rank as things move along to preserve their own elections.




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    Prime example? I'm sure this will endear him to so many in the two chambers. (And apparently he slept through the Cold War)






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  26. #2276
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    The Trump Presidency - Life In Interesting Times

    Those darned Mormons.

    Huffington Post says Mormons could've kept Trump from reaching the White House but they didn't

    http://www.deseretnews.com/article/8...hey-didnt.html

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  27. #2277
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    Those darned Mormons.

    Huffington Post says Mormons could've kept Trump from reaching the White House but they didn't

    http://www.deseretnews.com/article/8...hey-didnt.html
    I'm still quite disappointed in Mormons. We had a chance to make a statement about our principles, and we caved in to party instead.

  28. #2278
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    Those darned Mormons.

    Huffington Post says Mormons could've kept Trump from reaching the White House but they didn't

    http://www.deseretnews.com/article/8...hey-didnt.html
    I know I'm persona non grata around here, but come on (look at my post above, quoted below):

    Quote Originally Posted by tooblue View Post
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/...b0cb4fc1c73c22

    Add Mormons to the list of reasons why Clinton didn't win the election ... my-land, Democrats and liberals confound me.

  29. #2279
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    I don't blame Mormons for not voting for Hillary Clinton simply because Trump is a flawed person. To argue that under the circumstances Clinton was the truly moral choice is specious, in my opinion. I am saying this as a person who could not bring himself to vote for Trump or Clinton.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  30. #2280
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    I don't blame Mormons for not voting for Hillary Clinton simply because Trump is a flawed person.
    Me neither. They could have voted for any number of other people, though. We threw away a golden opportunity to practice what we preach in a hugely visible way.

    Also, "flawed person" doesn't do justice to what Trump is.

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