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Thread: The Trump Presidency - Life In Interesting Times

  1. #1531
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell



  2. #1532
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Just in from the Wall Street Journal:

    *****
    Schumer Calls on Democrats to Filibuster Gorsuch Confirmation

    The Senate's top Democrat will oppose Judge Neil Gorsuch's confirmation to the Supreme Court and urged his Democratic colleagues to block the nomination.
    Sen. Chuck Schumer of New York called on Senate Democrats to block the confirmation by using a filibuster, which takes 60 votes to overcome. The Senate minority leader's decision sets up a quandary for Republicans. The party will need either to win eight Democratic votes or change the rules to eliminate the 60-vote threshold.

    *****

    I think this would be the second time in history a SCOTUS nominee has been filbustered, if one considers the Abe Fortas debacle to have been a filibuster.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell



  3. #1533
    I think that is a bad call by schumer.


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  4. #1534
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sullyute View Post
    I think that is a bad call by schumer.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
    He has a base he needs to keep happy.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell



  5. #1535
    Quote Originally Posted by Sullyute View Post
    I think that is a bad call by schumer.
    If Trump were a legitimately elected president, Schumer's action could be considered simple retaliation for what happened to Garland.

    With the possibility we might have a President Ryan to serve out the term, Schumer's holding out for a more transparent, acceptable candidate for Democrats.

    If we get to a Ryan (or Pence) presidency sometime this year, there will be more pressure to mend the country with a more centrist candidate.

    Schumer's playing the long game, IMO.
    Last edited by Ma'ake; 03-23-2017 at 01:17 PM.

  6. #1536
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    Just in from the Wall Street Journal:

    *****
    Schumer Calls on Democrats to Filibuster Gorsuch Confirmation

    The Senate's top Democrat will oppose Judge Neil Gorsuch's confirmation to the Supreme Court and urged his Democratic colleagues to block the nomination.
    Sen. Chuck Schumer of New York called on Senate Democrats to block the confirmation by using a filibuster, which takes 60 votes to overcome. The Senate minority leader's decision sets up a quandary for Republicans. The party will need either to win eight Democratic votes or change the rules to eliminate the 60-vote threshold.

    *****

    I think this would be the second time in history a SCOTUS nominee has been filbustered, if one considers the Abe Fortas debacle to have been a filibuster.
    Sad.

    I love how Dennis Miller put it, "Let me quote the great Buffalo Springfield, 'there's something happening here, and what it is is all too clear', we're going through a divorce. This is like getting War of the Roses ugly. If you want to check the docket in the court, its been filed as the deplorables vs the insufferables, and I think we're basically incompatible right now."
    “Children and dogs are as necessary to the welfare of the country as Wall Street and the railroads.” -- Harry S. Truman

    "You never soar so high as when you stoop down to help a child or an animal." -- Jewish Proverb

    "Three-time Pro Bowler Eric Weddle the most versatile, and maybe most intelligent, safety in the game." -- SI, 9/7/15, p. 107.

  7. #1537
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ma'ake View Post
    If Trump were a legitimately elected president....
    I'm making a record that I think this is a ridiculous statement. I still love you though! You know that.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell



  8. #1538
    Quote Originally Posted by Ma'ake View Post
    If Trump were a legitimately elected president, Schumer's action could be considered simple retaliation for what happened to Garland.

    With the possibility we might have a President Ryan to serve out the term, Schumer's holding out for a more transparent, acceptable candidate for Democrats.

    If we get to a Ryan (or Pence) presidency sometime this year, there will be more pressure to mend the country with a more centrist candidate.

    Schumer's playing the long game, IMO.
    That long game is playing into 2020 then because neither Pence nor Ryan is going to nominate a more centrist candidate. This is Shumer doing what he does best, playing the fool.

  9. #1539
    Eye for an eye politics. The left is going to make the right pay for what they did to Pres. Obama/Garland last year. If democrats line up unanimously behind Shumer then the next candidate will make it through.

    Don't you just love American politics. Both of these judges appear to be solid choices who would serve the people well as justices. Makes me sad and grows my cynicism.

  10. #1540
    Quote Originally Posted by Utebiquitous View Post
    Eye for an eye politics. The left is going to make the right pay for what they did to Pres. Obama/Garland last year. If democrats line up unanimously behind Shumer then the next candidate will make it through.

    Don't you just love American politics. Both of these judges appear to be solid choices who would serve the people well as justices. Makes me sad and grows my cynicism.


    Somebody jokingly tweeted out yesterday that the same rules should apply to Trump and Gorsuch that applied to Obama--he shouldn't be allowed to pick a court nominee during the last year of his presidency.

  11. #1541
    Quote Originally Posted by Ma'ake View Post
    If Trump were a legitimately elected president
    Until someone presents proof beyond a reasonable doubt that ballots and/or voting machines were tampered with by anyone, then Trump is the legitimately elected president of the United States.

    As a Democrat friend said during the Bush II presidency, until someone goes down to Florida and counts all those votes Gore supposedly got that weren't counted, then W. was legitimately POTUS. Amazing how no one ever did that, so I wouldn't hold my breath on Trump.
    "It'd be nice to please everyone but I thought it would be more interesting to have a point of view." -- Oscar Levant

  12. #1542
    Quote Originally Posted by USS Utah View Post
    Until someone presents proof beyond a reasonable doubt that ballots and/or voting machines were tampered with by anyone, then Trump is the legitimately elected president of the United States.

    As a Democrat friend said during the Bush II presidency, until someone goes down to Florida and counts all those votes Gore supposedly got that weren't counted, then W. was legitimately POTUS. Amazing how no one ever did that, so I wouldn't hold my breath on Trump.
    Agreed. Here is the thing, as I've stated I'm more on the 'useful idiot theory' connection with Russia and Trump. I think they saw an idiot who would do them good so they tried to influence the election. I don't know that they succeeded other than to leak damaging info on Clinton (which ironically nobody is really disputing). But even if Trump's camp was working directly with the Russians, and Trump himself was directing it there is virtually no way it will get back to him. Somebody will fall on that sword as that is in their best interest. Even if everything on this blows up, odds of Trump getting the brunt of it is virtually non-existent.

  13. #1543



    "As Trump builds the wall on the Southern Border, it's going to push more migrants and smugglers to the water -- and the only entity there to stop all of it is the Coast Guard," Kasper told CNN.

    http://www.cnn.com/2017/03/07/politi...st-guard-cuts/
    Last edited by USS Utah; 03-23-2017 at 07:01 PM.
    "It'd be nice to please everyone but I thought it would be more interesting to have a point of view." -- Oscar Levant

  14. #1544
    Quote Originally Posted by USS Utah View Post

    "As Trump builds the wall on the Southern Border, it's going to push more migrants and smugglers to the water -- and the only entity there to stop all of it is the Coast Guard," Kasper told CNN.
    Semper paratus!

  15. #1545
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    The Trump Presidency - Life In Interesting Times

    This is quite good and spares no one.

    *****

    Opinion Journal: Trump and Russia: The Intelligence Angle

    Wonder Land Columnist Dan Henninger on undermining confidence in intelligence agencies and the media.

    By DANIEL HENNINGER
    March 22, 2017 6:35 p.m. ET

    The tale of Russia interfering in the U.S. presidential election has become a hall of mirrors that distorts and diminishes everyone who comes near it—the Trump presidency, Democrats, members of Congress, the intelligence community and the media. Vladimir Putin must be agog in Moscow at how easy it is to make America subvert itself.

    But let’s walk through the funhouse door and stare at the first mirror, the one reflecting the face of former President Barack Obama. This nightmare starts with him.

    The details of a March 1 New York Times story deserve to be repeated with as much manic intensity as news sites report the repudiation of Donald Trump’s claim that Mr. Obama wiretapped Trump Tower.

    Well, he didn’t, but Mr. Obama did plenty else. This is the lead sentence of that Times story:

    “In the Obama administration’s last days, some White House officials scrambled to spread information about Russian efforts to undermine the presidential election—and about possible contacts between associates of President-elect Donald J. Trump and Russians—across the government.”

    This is what they did: “At intelligence agencies, there was a push to process as much raw intelligence as possible into analyses, and to keep the reports at a relatively low classification level to ensure as wide a readership as possible across the government—and, in some cases, among European allies.”

    Earlier, on Jan. 12, the Times also reported that Attorney General Loretta Lynch signed rules that let the National Security Agency disseminate “raw signals intelligence information” to 16 other intelligence agencies.

    That is, the Obama administration put in motion the tsunami of anonymously attributed stories that is engulfing and disabling America’s government today.

    They knew the drill. In 2011 the Obama White House leaked details of SEAL Team Six’s assassination of Osama bin Laden within hours of the operation. They politicized the SEALs and commoditized leaking, just as they now have politicized and undermined public confidence in U.S. intelligence agencies.

    Mirror No. 2 reflects the face of Donald Trump, who took a legitimate complaint about all this and then, via tweets and public statements, put himself and then his presidency at war with 17 intelligence agencies. The no-surprise result is pretty ugly.

    As well, Mr. Trump brought on Paul Manafort and Roger Stone, who’ve built mansions on the foreign-connections swamp, and former Defense Intelligence Agency director Mike Flynn, who fantastically sat at a table in 2015 with Mr. Putin to celebrate RT, Russia’s primary external propaganda arm. No wonder someone took a look.

    If one reads the government’s Jan. 6 “Clapper Report” on Russian meddling in the 2016 election, it is clear that its real message is about a sophisticated Russian effort to undermine the Western democracies. That broader subject is almost certainly what the current Russian investigation is about, with the 2016 campaign a subset example.

    But rather than develop countermeasures against the Putin subversion effort, our politics wallows in the Trump vs. Democrats smackdown.

    Mirror No. 3 is the House Intelligence Committee hearing, whose membership degraded instantly into partisanship. The committee insists it will issue a serious report. The odds look low.

    We’ve come to the biggest, most distorting mirror of all—FBI Director James Comey.

    To whom, exactly, do the FBI director and his “investigation” report? Is James Comey accountable to anyone?

    Not to Attorney General Jeff Sessions, who, like Loretta Lynch before him, is out of the picture. Deputy Attorney General nominee Rod Rosenstein isn’t even confirmed.

    Indeed, it is difficult to see how any of the 17 agencies implicated in this Russian investigation are accountable to anyone beyond their nominal chain of command for whatever it is they’re doing.

    The “investigation” Mr. Comey identified at the Nunes-Schiff hearing essentially consists of cops walking the beat and knocking on doors for clues. The 17 agencies set loose in January by the Obama administration are an unfocused perpetual-motion machine. This uncapped Beltway hydrant likely will do little about the real Putin propaganda threat, but it will gush raw, unverified anecdotes to animate media melodramas about the current presidency and private U.S. citizens.

    The spectacle is damaging public confidence in the credibility of both the intelligence agencies and the U.S. media. We need both. The system can’t handle another Comey punt.

    Staffers from the Senate Intelligence Committee have been to the CIA headquarters to look at what it’s got. That’s not enough. We need closure. Someone with authority and judgment, such as arriving Deputy AG Rosenstein, should scrub through what the Obama NSA distributed, and make a call.

    If on a scale of 1 to 10, this investigation is a 2, pull the plug. If some discrete piece of it is an 8, make that public and proceed. If someone needs a defense lawyer, tell them now.

    John le Carré wrote entertaining fiction. What this Washington Russia House has produced for the American people is an open-ended fiasco.

    Write henninger@wsj.com.

    Appeared in the Mar. 23, 2017, print edition as 'Trump’s Russia House.'

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/trumps-...use-1490222128
    Last edited by LA Ute; 03-24-2017 at 12:29 AM.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell



  16. #1546
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Bob Woodward: Obama officials possibly facing criminal charges for unmasking scheme

    http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/bo...rticle/2618185

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell



  17. #1547
    Quote Originally Posted by Rocker Ute View Post
    ....... Here is the thing, as I've stated I'm more on the 'useful idiot theory' connection with Russia and Trump. I think they saw an idiot who would do them good so they tried to influence the election......

    You've mentioned this theory before, and I think you're too smart to place any credence into that theory (that's supposed to be a compliment, not a dig, as there's some that post on this board that don't seem to recognize established facts and let emotion get the better of them). All you need to do is read the IC January report, as well as listen to the testimony of the FBI and NSA testimony before congress a few days ago and I think that would convince you that you're barking up the wrong tree. I know you want to believe Trumps a fool that can be played by Putin, but, it just doesn't line up with current intelligence. Perhaps they'll unearth some evidence down the road to vindicate your position.
    Last edited by LA Ute; 03-24-2017 at 02:04 PM.
    “Children and dogs are as necessary to the welfare of the country as Wall Street and the railroads.” -- Harry S. Truman

    "You never soar so high as when you stoop down to help a child or an animal." -- Jewish Proverb

    "Three-time Pro Bowler Eric Weddle the most versatile, and maybe most intelligent, safety in the game." -- SI, 9/7/15, p. 107.

  18. #1548
    Quote Originally Posted by mUUser View Post
    You've mentioned this theory before, and I think you're too smart to place any credence into that theory (that's supposed to be a compliment, not a dig, as there's some that post on this board that don't seem to recognize established facts and let emotion get the better of them). All you need to do is read the IC January report, as well as listen to the testimony of the FBI and NSA testimony before congress a few days ago and I think that would convince you that you're barking up the wrong tree. I know you want to believe Trumps a fool that can be played by Putin, but, it just doesn't line up with current intelligence. Perhaps they'll unearth some evidence down the road to vindicate your position.
    I think you might be misunderstanding what I mean by "useful idiot". What I mean is that I don't think Trump necessarily collaborated directly or indirectly with the Russians or Putin, rather the Russians have such a low opinion of him that they tried to influence the elections in favor of him.

    I don't think he is a puppet, I think they just think he is bad.

    I think you'd be hard pressed to find anyone leader out of the US who thought Trump would be a great leader. I work with a number of people out of our country and all of them after the election were like, "how in the world did that happen...". It was pretty terrifying to them to have such a man now sit in the seat of the most powerful man on earth.


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  19. #1549
    Motorboatin' SOB Devildog's Avatar
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    "We should remember that one man is much the same as another, and that he is best who is trained in the severest school."
    -Thucydides


    "Study strategy over the years and achieve the spirit of the warrior. Today is victory over yourself of yesterday; tomorrow is your victory over lesser men."
    -Miyamoto Musashi

    Si vis pacem, para bellum

  20. #1550
    Quote Originally Posted by USS Utah View Post
    Until someone presents proof beyond a reasonable doubt that ballots and/or voting machines were tampered with by anyone, then Trump is the legitimately elected president of the United States.

    As a Democrat friend said during the Bush II presidency, until someone goes down to Florida and counts all those votes Gore supposedly got that weren't counted, then W. was legitimately POTUS. Amazing how no one ever did that, so I wouldn't hold my breath on Trump.
    The bar for being considered legitimately elected in the US is apparently below sea level. By the reasoning you describe, hackers could inject altered versions of debate performances into TVs, water supplies could be intentionally tainted to suppress turnout, school children could be threatened if their parents were thought to vote a certain way (illegal activities)...but unless votes or voting machines themselves were compromised, whatever domestic or foreign originated interventions that can be dreamt up are legit.

    The Koch Brothers offered millions to House members for voting down the AHCA, and nobody gave it a second thought.

    Why couldn't the same be done for us mere citizens?

    The vote trading scheme thought up during Bush-Kerry that Republicans objected to was child's play compared to what could be done.

    An entire cottage industry of renting micro-apartments or even just homeless camps in swing districts to allow voters to accept bids for their votes could be a nice little income supplement.

  21. #1551
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Andrew Malcolm:

    What’s really hidden deep within all this intel squabbling

    Here’s what really matters: During the waning days of the Obama administration U.S. intelligence was indeed monitoring the conversations of foreign persons of interest after the Nov. 8 election and before the Jan. 20 inauguration. That’s normal and actually encouraging given how many key things those agencies have missed in recent years.

    In those eaves-droppings they overheard Trump aides being mentioned or talking to agencies’ foreign targets. That’s called “incidental contact” in the intel world. That means they weren’t supposed to be targeting the American, but he or she came up. That’s unavoidable in intelligence-gathering if you’re doing a thorough job.

    T​o avoid “unmasking” those innocent bystanders, t​ranscripts of those overheard conversations refer to the foreign target by name and identify the other person simply as American ​No. ​1 or American ​No. 2. ​A very small number of very senior intelligence officials ​will ​know the actual identity of the American​, people like, oh, then-CIA director John Brennan or Susan Rice, Obama’s national security adviser.​

    ​Remember Trump’s first national security adviser, retired Gen. Michael Flynn? He was picked up talking with the Russian ambassador as part of his transition work. Subsequently, he was fired​, not for the conversation but for misrepresenting that conversation to Trump teammates, including Vice President Pence. Trump accurately saw that as fatally corroding the trust he needs in such a close aide.

    But here’s the deal: We should never have known it was Flynn.

    Yes, as head of the Defense Intelligence Agency Flynn was very unpopular among Obama administration members and indeed was frozen out of contact with the commander-in-chief because he favored a much stronger response to ISIS, among other things. Talk about a president dodging opposing views.

    Like Flynn or not, it is illegal — as in against the law — for anyone to reveal the name of an incidentally-overheard American. Someone in a small circle of Obama intelligence officials who knew the identity of that American No. 1 committed a felony by leaking Flynn’s name to media.

    Safe to say the leak, like numerous others since Hillary Clinton was not inaugurated as president, was not intended to facilitate the smooth presidential transition that Obama so often publicly promised.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell



  22. #1552
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    Andrew Malcolm:

    What’s really hidden deep within all this intel squabbling
    Who thinks Hillary wouldn't have been treated harshly/unfairly in conversations/data sharing *within* the Intel community?

    Would Republicans be up in arms if the reverse were true, if there was incidental surveillance of John Podesta's brother in law, catering a dinner to the Russian Embassy and he was left unmasked by some Intel folks who were angry about Benghazi?

    The unmasking was wrong, and those involved should be punished, but focusing on this is like cops back at the station violating policy by talking about the slime ball they just arrested. Is that where the focus should be? Really?

    For any angry Trumpistas or Sean Hannity fanboys, take a breath, go to lunch, and then come back and consider just how far this issue has come. Now the issue is sloppy lack of adherence to internal standards?

    This morning, Trump is probably thinking about calling Ivanka and asking "Are we really sure Johnny Cochran is dead? Maybe he had to get out of a nasty domestic situation and go into hiding. His nation really, REALLY needs his level of legal talent, RIGHT NOW! ! !"

  23. #1553
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    As someone who cannot stand either Hillary Clinton or Donald Trump, I think this Washington Post op-Ed makes the most salient point about the surveillance controversy. If the shoe were on the other foot…

    Surveillance Sauce for the Goose

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.fe2f11a74245

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell



  24. #1554
    Here's a sad, but predictable story:

    White American woman announces to her undocumented Mexican husband that she's going to vote for Trump, because he said he was only going to deport the "bad hombres".

    Now the husband is being deported. The business he created employs 20.

    (Nice looking family, though. I wonder how the kids are going to view their mom, now. Can't be good for the family dynamics.)

    http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/tru...cid=spartandhp
    Last edited by Ma'ake; 03-25-2017 at 11:55 AM.

  25. #1555
    Quote Originally Posted by Rocker Ute View Post
    I think you might be misunderstanding what I mean by "useful idiot". What I mean is that I don't think Trump necessarily collaborated directly or indirectly with the Russians or Putin, rather the Russians have such a low opinion of him that they tried to influence the elections in favor of him.

    I don't think he is a puppet, I think they just think he is bad.
    My hunch is Putin didn't possibly believe Trump would actually win. He was just trying to destabilize Clinton, and really didn't insist in much in the way of serious precautions to make sure the actions were not traceable.

    With Trump having actually won, Putin is finding that Trump's ability to reduce / eliminate sanctions has dwindled to zero, despite Manafort's having bended the fools in the GOP to change their platform at the convention to favor Moscow. (Still hard to believe that actually happened. Wow.)

    I think you'd be hard pressed to find anyone leader out of the US who thought Trump would be a great leader. I work with a number of people out of our country and all of them after the election were like, "how in the world did that happen...". It was pretty terrifying to them to have such a man now sit in the seat of the most powerful man on earth.
    That's what my out-of-country contacts are saying, too.

    To the extent Putin wanted to destabilize the United States - above and beyond making life difficult for Hillary - then I have to say he hit the jackpot.
    Last edited by Ma'ake; 03-25-2017 at 12:16 PM.

  26. #1556
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    I'm making a record that I think this is a ridiculous statement. I still love you though! You know that.
    LOL.

    I heard there is a lot of dark money from outside the US pouring in to destabilize the Gorsuch nomination / undermine him as a SCOTUS justice, which would be unfortunate, but entirely legitimate... right? Thank you Antonin Scalia! Woohoo!

    (Hopefully you can see the point in my fake rumor.)

  27. #1557
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    The Trump Presidency - Life In Interesting Times

    Quote Originally Posted by Ma'ake View Post
    LOL.

    I heard there is a lot of dark money from outside the US pouring in to destabilize the Gorsuch nomination / undermine him as a SCOTUS justice, which would be unfortunate, but entirely legitimate... right? Thank you Antonin Scalia! Woohoo!

    (Hopefully you can see the point in my fake rumor.)
    I'm going to buy you a fake lunch the next time I am in Salt Lake.

    EDIT: That was TIC. I'll buy you a real lunch because clearly it's going to take an in-person meeting to straighten you out.
    Last edited by LA Ute; 03-25-2017 at 02:19 PM.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell



  28. #1558
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Feb 2013
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    Scott Adams:

    Look for the new meme to dominate the news, probably through the summer. By year end, you will see a second turn, from incompetent to “Competent, but we don’t like it.”

    I have been predicting this story arc for some time now. So far, we’re ahead of schedule.

    In the 2D world, where everything is just the way it looks, and people are rational, Trump and Ryan failed to improve healthcare. But in the 3D world of persuasion, Trump just had one of the best days any president ever had: He got promoted from Hitler to incompetent. And that promotion effectively defused the Hitler-hallucination bomb that was engineered by the Clinton campaign.

    In all seriousness, the Trump-is-Hitler illusion was the biggest problem in the country, and maybe the world. It was scaring people to the point of bad health. It made any kind of political conversation impossible. It turned neighbors and friends against each other in a way we have never before seen. It was inviting violence, political instability, and worse.

    In my opinion, the Trump-is-Hitler hallucination was the biggest short-term problem facing the country. Congress just solved for it, albeit unintentionally. Watch the opposition news abandon the Trump-is-scary concept to get all over the “incompetent” theme.
    http://blog.dilbert.com/post/1588126...and-healthcare

    Let's see if he’s right.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell



  29. #1559
    Quote Originally Posted by Ma'ake View Post
    The bar for being considered legitimately elected in the US is apparently below sea level. By the reasoning you describe, hackers could inject altered versions of debate performances into TVs, water supplies could be intentionally tainted to suppress turnout, school children could be threatened if their parents were thought to vote a certain way (illegal activities)...but unless votes or voting machines themselves were compromised, whatever domestic or foreign originated interventions that can be dreamt up are legit.

    The Koch Brothers offered millions to House members for voting down the AHCA, and nobody gave it a second thought.

    Why couldn't the same be done for us mere citizens?

    The vote trading scheme thought up during Bush-Kerry that Republicans objected to was child's play compared to what could be done.

    An entire cottage industry of renting micro-apartments or even just homeless camps in swing districts to allow voters to accept bids for their votes could be a nice little income supplement.

    "We must protect our bodily fluids!"
    "It'd be nice to please everyone but I thought it would be more interesting to have a point of view." -- Oscar Levant

  30. #1560
    Quote Originally Posted by Ma'ake View Post
    The bar for being considered legitimately elected in the US is apparently below sea level. By the reasoning you describe, hackers could inject altered versions of debate performances into TVs, water supplies could be intentionally tainted to suppress turnout, school children could be threatened if their parents were thought to vote a certain way (illegal activities)...but unless votes or voting machines themselves were compromised, whatever domestic or foreign originated interventions that can be dreamt up are legit.

    The Koch Brothers offered millions to House members for voting down the AHCA, and nobody gave it a second thought.

    Why couldn't the same be done for us mere citizens?

    The vote trading scheme thought up during Bush-Kerry that Republicans objected to was child's play compared to what could be done.

    An entire cottage industry of renting micro-apartments or even just homeless camps in swing districts to allow voters to accept bids for their votes could be a nice little income supplement.
    Ma'ake you know we are on the same side when it comes to Trump. We also don't know all that was/is going on with trump and the ruskies. However with the facts we know all we can say is the Russians attempted to affect our election through leaks damaging to the DNC and HRC.

    We don't know and probably will never know how successful they were at that.

    The other problem that nobody seems to talk about outside of the leaks is they have, as my business partner would put it, "the ADDED benefit of being true."

    So until it is found to be much deeper or successful than we realize now, Trump is a legitimately elected president.

    Is he a corrupt, incompetent, unfit man who admitted to sexually assaulting women? Yes, but he still got elected as the rules were set out.


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