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Thread: California Schools new scheduling ban (LGBT related) ...

  1. #1
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    California Schools new scheduling ban (LGBT related) ...

    http://thecomeback.com/ncaa/californ...lgbt-laws.html

    a newly-implemented California law prevents state-funded schools (including Cal, UCLA and other schools in the UC and CSU systems) from scheduling further games against schools from four states:

  2. #2
    It's just a matter of time until they ban games with BYU.

  3. #3
    Some schools/states may enact a prohibition against playing California schools because they have institutionalized the harboring and protecting of illegal immigrants with criminal records.

    If Cal is serious, they will forfeit NCAA tourney games against said schools/states.

    I haven' watched an NBA game in 5 years, NFL in 3 years. My interest in college athletics in waning with each passing day. Life is too short for this much bull shit.
    Last edited by Ultimate Ute; 02-08-2017 at 10:31 PM.

  4. #4
    I'm glad California is taking a stance and standing up for what they believe in. No one is perfect, but we all need to strive to be better.

    It's not ok to discriminate against anyone. This is no different than BYU not playing on Sunday, BYU not allowing LGBT the same rights on campus, BYU not allowing members who leave the Church to stay enrolled at BYU (although I think BYU was forced to change this rule), etc.

    Some things are more important than sports. Discrimination is one of them. Good for California for standing up for what is right.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Ultimate Ute View Post
    Some schools/states may enact a prohibition against playing California schools because they have institutionalized the harboring and protecting of illegal immigrants with criminal records.

    If Cal is serious, they will forfeit NCAA tourney games against said schools/states.

    I haven' watched an NBA game in 5 years, NFL in 3 years. My interest in college athletics in waning with each passing day. Life is too short for this much bull shit.
    Oh brother. You haven't changed, have you. Why don't you go do something else, like get off on Donald Trump tweets.
    One thing I have learned in a long life: that all our science, measured against reality, is primitive and childlike -- and yet it is the most precious thing we have.

    --Albert Einstein

    The fact that life evolved out of nearly nothing, some 10 billion years after the universe evolved out of literally nothing, is a fact so staggering that I would be mad to attempt words to do it justice.

    --Richard Dawkins

    Be kind to all, for everyone you meet is fighting a great battle.

    --Philo

  6. #6
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SeattleUte View Post
    Oh brother. You haven't changed, have you. Why don't you go do something else, like get off on Donald Trump tweets.
    Ultimate talks about the issue. You talk about Ultimate.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    Ultimate talks about the issue. You talk about Ultimate.
    What issue? It's not worthy of discussion. He doesn't like LGTB. He doesn't like immigrants. He doesn't like Jews. I wonder why he doesn't like the NFL or the NBA anymore. I bet it's not a reason I'd like to hear about or consider a legitimate "issue". I don't think this place should be a forum for views like his.
    One thing I have learned in a long life: that all our science, measured against reality, is primitive and childlike -- and yet it is the most precious thing we have.

    --Albert Einstein

    The fact that life evolved out of nearly nothing, some 10 billion years after the universe evolved out of literally nothing, is a fact so staggering that I would be mad to attempt words to do it justice.

    --Richard Dawkins

    Be kind to all, for everyone you meet is fighting a great battle.

    --Philo

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Utah View Post
    I'm glad California is taking a stance and standing up for what they believe in. No one is perfect, but we all need to strive to be better.

    It's not ok to discriminate against anyone. This is no different than BYU not playing on Sunday, BYU not allowing LGBT the same rights on campus, BYU not allowing members who leave the Church to stay enrolled at BYU (although I think BYU was forced to change this rule), etc.

    Some things are more important than sports. Discrimination is one of them. Good for California for standing up for what is right.
    To summarize:

    "I'm glad California is discriminating against people."

    "It's not OK to discriminate against anyone."

    You do realize that we all discriminate about all kinds of people all the time, right? The only question is whether the discrimination is justified.

  9. #9
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SeattleUte View Post
    What issue? It's not worthy of discussion. He doesn't like LGTB. He doesn't like immigrants. He doesn't like Jews. I wonder why he doesn't like the NFL or the NBA anymore. I bet it's not a reason I'd like to hear about or consider a legitimate "issue". I don't think this place should be a forum for views like his.
    Oh come on. There's nothing like that in the post related to your ad hominem response.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    Oh come on. There's nothing like that in the post related to your ad hominem response.
    I'm familiar with his views from posts on utefans. I was hoping he was reformed, but I've seen enough to know it's the same Ultimate Ute.
    One thing I have learned in a long life: that all our science, measured against reality, is primitive and childlike -- and yet it is the most precious thing we have.

    --Albert Einstein

    The fact that life evolved out of nearly nothing, some 10 billion years after the universe evolved out of literally nothing, is a fact so staggering that I would be mad to attempt words to do it justice.

    --Richard Dawkins

    Be kind to all, for everyone you meet is fighting a great battle.

    --Philo

  11. #11
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SeattleUte View Post
    I'm familiar with his views from posts on utefans. I was hoping he was reformed, but I've seen enough to know it's the same Ultimate Ute.
    I for one am glad to see him here and hope he posts more. Thou tottering tardy-gaited flap-dragon!

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Utah View Post
    Some things are more important than sports.
    If the Olympics wants to ban S. Africa over apartheid, I'm all for it. But I'm not excited about a new era in which academics use college athletics as a pawn in political games. These people care nothing for sports, and they will happily sacrifice athletics at their altar of politics.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    If the Olympics wants to ban S. Africa over apartheid, I'm all for it. But I'm not excited about a new era in which academics use college athletics as a pawn in political games. These people care nothing for sports, and they will happily sacrifice athletics at their altar of politics.
    So discrimination against LGBT folks is mere politics? I consider it more like an affront to basic human rights.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Utah View Post
    I'm glad California is taking a stance and standing up for what they believe in. No one is perfect, but we all need to strive to be better.

    It's not ok to discriminate against anyone. This is no different than BYU not playing on Sunday, BYU not allowing LGBT the same rights on campus, BYU not allowing members who leave the Church to stay enrolled at BYU (although I think BYU was forced to change this rule), etc.

    Some things are more important than sports. Discrimination is one of them. Good for California for standing up for what is right.
    I agree with this. While sometimes CA lawmakers enact some head scratching legislation, at least they have the balls to be the front-runner for some much needed legislation. Which inevitably the rest of the country finally catches up and follows.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Hayes6 View Post
    So discrimination against LGBT folks is mere politics? I consider it more like an affront to basic human rights.
    So you agree with this particular political cause. Fine. I do too. The NC law is just dumb.

    I don't want college athletics to be a pawn in whatever political causes seem important at the time. I prefer the games in athletics and the games in politics to mingle as infrequently as possible. I especially don't want it to be a pawn in the hands of people who care a lot about politics and may not care at all about athletics.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    So you agree with this particular political cause. Fine. I do too. The NC law is just dumb.

    I don't want college athletics to be a pawn in whatever political causes seem important at the time. I prefer the games in athletics and the games in politics to mingle as infrequently as possible. I especially don't want it to be a pawn in the hands of people who care a lot about politics and may not care at all about athletics.
    Sometimes the politics hardens into morality. It's the way it works. At one time the 1964 Civil Rights Act was politics; but now if you want to bring back Jim Crow you're a racist. At some point a political cause triumphs so resoundingly and the logic supporting it is so compelling that it becomes about morality. That is what LGBT is become. Trump may be our president, and I think "he's not my president" is nonsense and not constructive, but even he won't touch LGBT rights.
    One thing I have learned in a long life: that all our science, measured against reality, is primitive and childlike -- and yet it is the most precious thing we have.

    --Albert Einstein

    The fact that life evolved out of nearly nothing, some 10 billion years after the universe evolved out of literally nothing, is a fact so staggering that I would be mad to attempt words to do it justice.

    --Richard Dawkins

    Be kind to all, for everyone you meet is fighting a great battle.

    --Philo

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by SeattleUte View Post
    What issue? It's not worthy of discussion. He doesn't like LGTB. He doesn't like immigrants. He doesn't like Jews. I wonder why he doesn't like the NFL or the NBA anymore. I bet it's not a reason I'd like to hear about or consider a legitimate "issue". I don't think this place should be a forum for views like his.

    There's some posters that make you cringe every time they open their mouth. I know exactly how you feel.
    “Children and dogs are as necessary to the welfare of the country as Wall Street and the railroads.” -- Harry S. Truman

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  18. #18
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mUUser View Post
    There's some posters that make you cringe every time they open their mouth. I know exactly how you feel.
    The problem is that Ultimate has not said anything cringe-worthy at this site. Seattle is referring to perceived or imagined outrages that Ultimate supposedly committed on another board, which I don't even remember. I have always seen him as a very reasonable poster. He's not even in the same galaxy as others who have been offensive here. Seattle, please dial it back. We don't need you running off new people who are interested in being part of the community here. They all deserve at least a chance on this board, regardless of what you think of their performance in other places.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  19. #19
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SeattleUte View Post
    Sometimes the politics hardens into morality. It's the way it works. At one time the 1964 Civil Rights Act was politics; but now if you want to bring back Jim Crow you're a racist. At some point a political cause triumphs so resoundingly and the logic supporting it is so compelling that it becomes about morality. That is what LGBT is become. Trump may be our president, and I think "he's not my president" is nonsense and not constructive, but even he won't touch LGBT rights.
    You are right, I think that the ship has sailed on issues like gay marriage and non-discrimination against LGBT people. Where are you and I differ is that as a society, we are not yet to the point (and may never be) where behavior based on sexual orientation and gender identity are considered legally synonymous with basic race or ethnicity. Your analogy to the Civil Rights Act will not be sound until society has reached that point, if it ever does.
    Last edited by LA Ute; 02-09-2017 at 04:21 PM.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    The problem is that Ultimate has not said anything cringe-worthy at this site. Seattle is referring to perceived or imagined outrages that Ultimate supposedly committed on another board, which I don't even remember. I have always seen him as a very reasonable poster. He's not even in the same galaxy as others who have been offensive here. Seattle, please dial it back. We don't need you running off new people who are interested in being part of the community here. They all deserve at least a chance on this board, regardless of what you think of their performance in other places.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    I think you missed the irony of MUSSER's most. He was saying that about me. No?

    I'm referring you both to the Committee of Public Safety.
    One thing I have learned in a long life: that all our science, measured against reality, is primitive and childlike -- and yet it is the most precious thing we have.

    --Albert Einstein

    The fact that life evolved out of nearly nothing, some 10 billion years after the universe evolved out of literally nothing, is a fact so staggering that I would be mad to attempt words to do it justice.

    --Richard Dawkins

    Be kind to all, for everyone you meet is fighting a great battle.

    --Philo

  21. #21
    Since LA is blind to UU's subtext, I'm not surprised he missed Musser's point.
    One thing I have learned in a long life: that all our science, measured against reality, is primitive and childlike -- and yet it is the most precious thing we have.

    --Albert Einstein

    The fact that life evolved out of nearly nothing, some 10 billion years after the universe evolved out of literally nothing, is a fact so staggering that I would be mad to attempt words to do it justice.

    --Richard Dawkins

    Be kind to all, for everyone you meet is fighting a great battle.

    --Philo

  22. #22
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SeattleUte View Post
    I think you missed the irony of MUSSER's most. He was saying that about me. No?

    I'm referring you both to the Committee of Public Safety.
    I knew he was talking about you. You may have missed, in my response, that I also was talking about you -- you errant earth-vexing barnacle.

    (For assistance with Shakespearean insults, see http://www.pangloss.com/seidel/shake_rule.html.)
    Last edited by LA Ute; 02-09-2017 at 07:09 PM.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    So you agree with this particular political cause. Fine. I do too. The NC law is just dumb.

    I don't want college athletics to be a pawn in whatever political causes seem important at the time. I prefer the games in athletics and the games in politics to mingle as infrequently as possible. I especially don't want it to be a pawn in the hands of people who care a lot about politics and may not care at all about athletics.
    I see this issue as more than just politics. Sports are a big part of our society, so I think it is important that those who schedule sporting events to take a stand on issues of basic human rights. If it causes some disruption in my enjoyment of sports, I'm willing to suffer that small annoyance in the service of a bigger goal. This is especially true with college sports and even moreso with with public colleges. Sports are so entwined in our national culture that they can make a positive difference. Exhibit A: Jackie Robinson, who was a catalyst for the civil rights movement.

  24. #24

    California Schools new scheduling ban (LGBT related) ...

    So I don't know I have a big problem with the Cal schools doing this or really any problem at all. I have thought a lot about the slippery slope this sort of stuff can be. Right now the morality is benefiting what we perceive as progress. If and when the pendulum swings the other direction and people are forced to do things maybe more conservative than they like how will people react.

    I was reading a CNN piece about different comedians getting arrested for 'word crimes' including Lenny Bruce and sentenced to a work camp. A few years later George Carlin was arrested for the same thing for his now famous, "7 things you can't say on TV" bit. Unlike Bruce who was convicted, Carlin's case was thrown out when people in the courtroom began laughing at the bit.

    We find this stuff antiquated and funny now. It is almost hard to fathom how people could sensor speech that way.

    Now protests erupt when a gigantic prick but conservative speaker tries to talk at Berkeley and it seems the pendulum has swung fully the other way.

    History shows it will be coming back.

    So we hope what we now view as progress sticks but history has shown us it won't. And then what? Would you be required to make a cake for a Nazi party?

    Now, shifting gears, this is intentionally outrageous so don't take this as an endorsement or even a position I feel is correct. However, I think it might muster similar feelings for how some people currently feel and how almost all people felt as little as 40 years ago about homosexuality. And yes I get the false equivalency. But morals are ever shifting and so there will be SOMETHING we don't generally accept as society now that will be (like maybe polygamy).

    But what if after some scientific discovery we find that pedophilia is as genetic as hetro or homosexuality? What if over time society begins to feel that this is okay? What if you find yourself feeling like it isn't okay despite what the majority of society feels? What if you are suddenly required to do business for pedophiles? What if others begin to boycott you because of your beliefs, saying it goes beyond politics, it is an issue of right and wrong?

    Again, let me reiterate that I do not even remotely believe homosexuality = pedophilia. In fact I find nothing more repugnant than pedophilia. I think those people should have a millstone tied to their neck and drowned in the sea. It is just to illustrate that most people used to feel the same way about homosexuality and there was nothing you could teach that would make it acceptable in their minds. But morals shift and people, even generally decent people, can be slow to come along. Usually what fixes that understanding is exposure, patience and understanding. Hitting them with a hammer doesn't.

    I guess I don't know where I am going with this other than to say there is something unsettling about this sort of methodology to force people to come to terms with your way of understanding. I think it can be done better, preserving the rights of the victim without trampling on the rights of people we perceive as ignorant and even straight out bigoted.

    I'm prepared to be skewered for this.


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    Last edited by Rocker Ute; 02-09-2017 at 03:46 PM.

  25. #25
    A weird new restrictive law? In California?! This is crazy!

  26. #26
    Five-O Diehard Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocker Ute View Post
    So I don't know I have a big problem with the Cal schools doing this or really any problem at all. I have thought a lot about the slippery slope this sort of stuff can be. Right now the morality is benefiting what we perceive as progress. If and when the pendulum swings the other direction and people are forced to do things maybe more conservative than they like how will people react.

    I was reading a CNN piece about different comedians getting arrested for 'word crimes' including Lenny Bruce and sentenced to a work camp. A few years later George Carlin was arrested for the same thing for his now famous, "7 things you can't say on TV" bit. Unlike Bruce who was convicted, Carlin's case was thrown out when people in the courtroom began laughing at the bit.

    We find this stuff antiquated and funny now. It is almost hard to fathom how people could sensor speech that way.

    Now protests erupt when a gigantic prick but conservative speaker tries to talk at Berkeley and it seems the pendulum has swung fully the other way.

    History shows it will be coming back.

    So we hope what we now view as progress sticks but history has shown us it won't. And then what? Would you be required to make a cake for a Nazi party?

    Now, shifting gears, this is intentionally outrageous so don't take this as an endorsement or even a position I feel is correct. However, I think it might muster similar feelings for how some people currently feel and how almost all people felt as little as 40 years ago about homosexuality. And yes I get the false equivalency. But morals are ever shifting and so there will be SOMETHING we don't generally accept as society now that will be (like maybe polygamy).

    But what if after some scientific discovery we find that pedophilia is as genetic as hetro or homosexuality? What if over time society begins to feel that this is okay? What if you find yourself feeling like it isn't okay despite what the majority of society feels? What if you are suddenly required to do business for pedophiles? What if others begin to boycott you because of your beliefs, saying it goes beyond politics, it is an issue of right and wrong?

    Again, let me reiterate that I do not even remotely believe homosexuality = pedophilia. In fact I find nothing more repugnant than pedophilia. I think those people should have a millstone tied to their neck and drowned in the sea. It is just to illustrate that most people used to feel the same way about homosexuality and there was nothing you could teach that would make it acceptable in their minds. But morals shift and people, even generally decent people, can be slow to come along. Usually what fixes that understanding is exposure, patience and understanding. Hitting them with a hammer doesn't.

    I guess I don't know where I am going with this other than to say there is something unsettling about this sort of methodology to force people to come to terms with your way of understanding. I think it can be done better, preserving the rights of the victim without trampling on the rights of people we perceive as ignorant and even straight out bigoted.

    I'm prepared to be skewered for this.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    You're comparing something that happens among consenting adults to an act where adults prey on children.

    I'm sure you could find something that's far closer in realm than those two things.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  27. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Rocker Ute View Post
    .... Would you be required to make a cake for a Nazi party?...
    Godwins law=fulfilled

  28. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Diehard Ute View Post
    You're comparing something that happens among consenting adults to an act where adults prey on children.

    I'm sure you could find something that's far closer in realm than those two things.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    I knew you'd say this, try reading what I said. I'm not comparing them, I'm comparing the emotions people felt 40 years ago about homosexuals to how people feel about pedophiles today.

    And I quote myself:

    "this is intentionally outrageous so don't take this as an endorsement or even a position I feel is correct."

    "yes I get the false equivalency."

    "
    Again, let me reiterate that I do not even remotely believe homosexuality = pedophilia."

    "
    In fact I find nothing more repugnant than pedophilia. I think those people should have a millstone tied to their neck and drowned in the sea."



    Last edited by Rocker Ute; 02-09-2017 at 04:00 PM.

  29. #29
    I am a "Likes to watch the world burn" sort of guy, so I know I am a jerk ahead of time.

    As such, I really find it entertaining that each side of the LGBT issues castigate the opposite as "immoral", LOL! Each side appealing to the authority of either divinity or social liberty.

    Meanwhile, China sits waiting, with their characteristic patience for long-range plans, for us to tear ourselves apart over social issues.

  30. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by wally View Post
    I am a "Likes to watch the world burn" sort of guy, so I know I am a jerk ahead of time.

    As such, I really find it entertaining that each side of the LGBT issues castigate the opposite as "immoral", LOL! Each side appealing to the authority of either divinity or social liberty.

    Meanwhile, China sits waiting, with their characteristic patience for long-range plans, for us to tear ourselves apart over social issues.
    It's sad that you think the concept of morality only exists in a religious context. Typical, though. Do you think racism implicates morality?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    One thing I have learned in a long life: that all our science, measured against reality, is primitive and childlike -- and yet it is the most precious thing we have.

    --Albert Einstein

    The fact that life evolved out of nearly nothing, some 10 billion years after the universe evolved out of literally nothing, is a fact so staggering that I would be mad to attempt words to do it justice.

    --Richard Dawkins

    Be kind to all, for everyone you meet is fighting a great battle.

    --Philo

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