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Thread: How Utah (the state) Thrives

  1. #1
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    How Utah (the state) Thrives

    This seems like a pretty objective article about the state of Utah. I am posting it here because it doesn't seem to fit anywhere else. But stories like this, and the facts/viewpoints it reports, are important to U. of Utah sports, especially recruiting.

    https://www.bloomberg.com/view/artic...an-dream-alive

    I am really not sure which way this article cuts in terms of recruiting.
    Last edited by LA Ute; 03-29-2017 at 12:09 PM.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    This seems like a pretty objective article about the state of Utah. I am posting it here because it doesn't seem to fit anywhere else. But stories like this, and the facts/viewpoints it reports, are important to U. of Utah sports, especially recruiting.

    https://www.bloomberg.com/view/artic...an-dream-alive
    Remember this exchange a while back? I was accused of making a weird argument in response by Rocker:

    Quote Originally Posted by Scorcho View Post
    Mark Few on BYU ...

    "The fans there look at sports as a way of showing people how great their way of life [the Mormon religion] is and to beat a team like ours almost becomes a basketball crusade"
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    That's an amazingly perceptive statement about BYU. He's going to be hated in Provo now, but he's dead on.
    Quote Originally Posted by tooblue View Post
    And Utah fans are different how? You share the same heritage; the same blood courses through your veins. Utah fans are the mirror image of BYU fans. It comes with the location, wherever you call home—or once called home—along the Wasatch Front. It's remarkable how you fail to see it
    Of course, I guess what you are doing is a little different but ...

  3. #3
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tooblue View Post
    Remember this exchange a while back? I was accused of making a weird argument in response by Rocker:







    Of course, I guess what you are doing is a little different but ...
    Oh please.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    Oh please.


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    ... and thank you ... so, you are not saying life is so great because of the "way of life" in Utah, due in large part to the [Mormon religion] that recruiting will improve as a result? And in the religion forum you didn't post:

    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    I wonder if Kyle will use that in recruiting LDS athletes.
    After linking to an article written by Chase Hansen? I'm the one that can rightfully say: Oh please.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by tooblue View Post
    ... and thank you ... so, you are not saying life is so great because of the "way of life" in Utah, due in large part to the [Mormon religion] that recruiting will improve as a result? And in the religion forum you didn't post:



    After linking to an article written by Chase Hansen? I'm the one that can rightfully say: Oh please.
    You've forgotten what the discussion was previously about. Mark Few noted that BYU fans act like winning a game will prove that they have a great way of life.

    That's pretty funny and spot on.

    LA simply said the improved way of life in Utah (because of the LDS church) may be a recruiting tool.

    Pretty distinctly different things. Now I don't know I agree that it would matter myself, but many of your fans really do believe that winning games is going to convince people the church is true.


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  6. #6
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocker Ute View Post
    ...many of your fans really do believe that winning games is going to convince people the church is true.
    Ding-ding-ding-ding-ding!

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    Ding-ding-ding-ding-ding!
    This thread is like when the fam's in the family car, ready to go on the big summer vacation, and the adults go back in the house for one last trip to the restroom, and your little brother jumps in the driver's seat and (somehow) gets the car high-centered on the fire hydrant in front of your house.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Rocker Ute View Post
    You've forgotten what the discussion was previously about. Mark Few noted that BYU fans act like winning a game will prove that they have a great way of life.

    That's pretty funny and spot on.

    LA simply said the improved way of life in Utah (because of the LDS church) may be a recruiting tool.

    Pretty distinctly different things. Now I don't know I agree that it would matter myself, but many of your fans really do believe that winning games is going to convince people the church is true.


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    Slice it however you like, but the fact is LA is validating a way of life in the same manner. You're all part of the same loaf of bread. The only difference is you are slathered in strawberry and not blueberry jam.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Ma'ake View Post
    This thread is like when the fam's in the family car, ready to go on the big summer vacation, and the adults go back in the house for one last trip to the restroom, and your little brother jumps in the driver's seat and (somehow) gets the car high-centered on the fire hydrant in front of your house.
    The question is, who is the little brother, looking for ...

    Last edited by tooblue; 03-30-2017 at 10:14 AM.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by tooblue View Post
    Slice it however you like, but the fact is LA is validating a way of life in the same manner. You're all part of the same loaf of bread. The only difference is you are slathered in strawberry and not blueberry jam.
    Ugh, I hate jam...gross.
    “It only ends once. Anything that happens before that is just progress.”

    Well, because he thought it was good sport. Because some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by DrumNFeather View Post
    Ugh, I hate jam...gross.
    Yeah. Who the hell uses jam?

    Preserves. We're strawberry preserves (and who the hell puts blueberry on anything? Blech)


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  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by tooblue View Post
    Slice it however you like, but the fact is LA is validating a way of life in the same manner. You're all part of the same loaf of bread. The only difference is you are slathered in strawberry and not blueberry jam.
    To illustrate it further, my dad's favorite joke when Notre Dame is doing well in football is to say, "Wow, did you see Notre Dame beat up <insert school name>? I don't know how to explain it but I find myself drawn to the teachings of the Catholic Church."

    The problem is, you guys actually believe that happens at BYU. Many fans actually believe that.

    So there really is no slicing it, Few noticed it and so does anyone else who encounters BYU and its fans.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Rocker Ute View Post
    To illustrate it further, my dad's favorite joke when Notre Dame is doing well in football is to say, "Wow, did you see Notre Dame beat up <insert school name>? I don't know how to explain it but I find myself drawn to the teachings of the Catholic Church."

    The problem is, you guys actually believe that happens at BYU. Many fans actually believe that.

    So there really is no slicing it, Few noticed it and so does anyone else who encounters BYU and its fans.
    I don't believe it. I think you really want to believe that many fans believe it. Just because you want it to be so, doesn't make it so. What should be more worrisome to you is you appear to be projecting—looking in a mirror:


  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Diehard Ute View Post
    Yeah. Who the hell uses jam?

    Preserves. We're strawberry preserves (and who the hell puts blueberry on anything? Blech)


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    Jams and marmalades are very popular the world over ... so are blueberries:

    http://www.globalhealingcenter.com/n...althy-berries/
    Last edited by tooblue; 03-30-2017 at 05:31 PM.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by DrumNFeather View Post
    Ugh, I hate jam...gross.
    I always pegged you as a marmalade guy:


  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by tooblue View Post
    I don't believe it. I think you really want to believe that many fans believe it. Just because you want it to be so, doesn't make it so. What should be more worrisome to you is you appear to be projecting—looking in a mirror:

    You have never heard a BYU fan say that the athletics program is part of the missionary arm of the church?

    http://www.timesandseasons.org/harch...itual-mission/

    http://www.espn.com/espnmag/story?id=3717470

    http://gospelcougar.blogspot.com/200...thing.html?m=1

    http://www.standard.net/Sports/2014/...issionary-tool

    3 minutes on google would tell you many fans believe that.

    OR go to cougarboard and ask who believes athletics is a missionary tool for the church.

    Stop pretending like it isn't happening.



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  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Rocker Ute View Post
    You have never heard a BYU fan say that the athletics program is part of the missionary arm of the church?

    http://www.timesandseasons.org/harch...itual-mission/

    http://www.espn.com/espnmag/story?id=3717470

    http://gospelcougar.blogspot.com/200...thing.html?m=1

    http://www.standard.net/Sports/2014/...issionary-tool

    3 minutes on google would tell you many fans believe that.

    OR go to cougarboard and ask who believes athletics is a missionary tool for the church.

    Stop pretending like it isn't happening.



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    Stop pretending Y'all (at least some of you) here aren't guilty of the same in many ways; that you don't believe the many successful Mormon athletes who have played for Utah over the years are not a missionary tool. Tell me you don't beam when broadcasters mention the many returned missionaries on the football team, or in years past when the likes of Alex Jensen and Britton Johnson were playing for the Utes in the final four. Oh please.
    Last edited by tooblue; 03-30-2017 at 11:48 PM.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by tooblue View Post
    Stop pretending Y'all (at least some of you) here aren't guilty of the same in many ways; that you don't believe the many successful Mormon athletes who have played for Utah over the years are not a missionary tool. Tell me you don't beam when broadcasters mention of many returned missionaries on the football team, or in years past when the likes of Alex Jensen and Britton Johnson were playing for the Utes in the final four. Oh please.
    http://www.deseretnews.com/article/8...l-players.html


    https://www.lds.org/new-era/1999/03/...ision?lang=eng

    http://www.deseretnews.com/article/7...n-control.html


    http://www.deseretnews.com/article/8...n-classes.html


    http://www.ldsliving.com/Utah-Utes-d...ilding/s/71587






  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by tooblue View Post
    Stop pretending Y'all (at least some of you) here aren't guilty of the same in many ways; that you don't believe the many successful Mormon athletes who have played for Utah over the years are not a missionary tool. Tell me you don't beam when broadcasters mention the many returned missionaries on the football team, or in years past when the likes of Alex Jensen and Britton Johnson were playing for the Utes in the final four. Oh please.
    I can't figure out if you are being intentionally obtuse. I'll assume you are and so I'll stop being trolled.

    Being proud of someone from your same background does not equal believing people are joining the church or even admiring it because of their success. I don't know a single person who believes of has stated that someone has joined the church because Alex Jensen could rebound like Dennis Rodman.




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  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Rocker Ute View Post
    I can't figure out if you are being intentionally obtuse. I'll assume you are and so I'll stop being trolled.

    Being proud of someone from your same background does not equal believing people are joining the church or even admiring it because of their success. I don't know a single person who believes of has stated that someone has joined the church because Alex Jensen could rebound like Dennis Rodman.




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    Talk about obtuseness. I have personally heard Ute fans utter that very sentiment, or something along the lines of: Alex Jensen is a great representative of the LDS church. Implying his character and high profile as a former player and coach has influenced individuals to join the church. I'm certainly OK with it. But oh, well Rocker. Have your fun pretending you don't see LDS returned missionary Ute athletes as effective emissaries of your religion. I'll stop "trolling" now.
    Last edited by tooblue; 03-31-2017 at 07:09 AM.

  21. #21
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    How Utah (the state) Thrives

    Anyway, the positive article about Utah as a place where there is unusually good upward mobility should make Utah recruiting easier for some recruits. I think it's a net positive. That what I intended this thread to be about. Am I right?


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    Last edited by LA Ute; 03-31-2017 at 08:27 AM.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by tooblue View Post
    Talk about obtuseness. I have personally heard Ute fans utter that very sentiment, or something along the lines of: Alex Jensen is a great representative of the LDS church. Implying his character and high profile as a former player and coach has influenced individuals to join the church. I'm certainly OK with it. But oh, well Rocker. Have your fun pretending you don't see LDS returned missionary Ute athletes as effective emissaries of your religion. I'll stop "trolling" now.
    Implying (well actually it's you inferring) versus directly stating. That is the difference. Mark Few gets it from 1000 miles away, that's what is humorous about it.

    As for what LA Ute is driving at, I also think Utah is a great place to live with lots of opportunity.


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  23. #23
    Senior Member Scorcho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tooblue View Post
    Talk about obtuseness. I have personally heard Ute fans utter that very sentiment, or something along the lines of: Alex Jensen is a great representative of the LDS church. Implying his character and high profile as a former player and coach has influenced individuals to join the church. I'm certainly OK with it. But oh, well Rocker. Have your fun pretending you don't see LDS returned missionary Ute athletes as effective emissaries of your religion. I'll stop "trolling" now.




    "Alex Jensen", clearly that's proof that you have your finger on the pulse of today's Utah fanbase/athletes. At least you didn't go back to the days when Utah was playing in the Mountain States Athletic Conference.

    It's entertaining to watch Zoobs include Ute fans only when it benefits them, and quickly exclude us (ALUF's) when it doesn't.
    Last edited by Scorcho; 03-31-2017 at 10:53 AM.

  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Scorcho View Post


    "Alex Jensen", clearly that's proof that you have your finger on the pulse of today's Utah fanbase/athletes. At least you didn't go back to the days when Utah was playing in the Mountain States Athletic Conference.

    It's entertaining to watch Zoobs include Ute fans only when it benefits them, and quickly exclude us (ALUF's) when it doesn't.
    Dude, he's an assistant coach with the Jazz, and currently being given credit for playing a significant role in the meteoric rise of Rudy Gobert. So, who here is plugged in, and who isn't ... lol ... typical zoot.

  25. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by tooblue View Post
    Dude, he's an assistant coach with the Jazz, and currently being given credit for playing a significant role in the meteoric rise of Rudy Gobert. So, who here is plugged in, and who isn't ... lol ... typical zoot.
    And how much play has that gotten on this Utah Sports based message board? Doesn't exactly support your argument that Ute fans are using Alex's membership in the church to bolster Utah athletics.

    Your arguments are a stretch, to say the least.

    Dyslexics of the world, untie!

  26. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by chrisrenrut View Post
    And how much play has that gotten on this Utah Sports based message board? Doesn't exactly support your argument that Ute fans are using Alex's membership in the church to bolster Utah athletics.

    Your arguments are a stretch, to say the least.
    If it's not getting any play then that's a huge indictment against the fanbase. It demonstrates just how fickle and fair-weather zoots— especially here on this board, obviously—are. Here's a good article to help catch you up:

    http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2017/1/8...ay-shootaround

    My argument is:


  27. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by tooblue View Post
    If it's not getting any play then that's a huge indictment against the fanbase. It demonstrates just how fickle and fair-weather zoots— especially here on this board, obviously—are. Here's a good article to help catch you up:

    http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2017/1/8...ay-shootaround

    My argument is:
    Do you even know what you are arguing anymore? How does being aware of Alex's role in Rudy's developement have anything to do with Ute fans tie of the LDS religion to Utah sports? Ute fans would have to be talking about it for you to make that connection, and that ain't happening.

    To put my feelings in a way that LAUte would appreciate, you are the Fezzini of this board. Truly you have a dizzying intellect.
    Dyslexics of the world, untie!

  28. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by chrisrenrut View Post
    Do you even know what you are arguing anymore? How does being aware of Alex's role in Rudy's developement have anything to do with Ute fans tie of the LDS religion to Utah sports? Ute fans would have to be talking about it for you to make that connection, and that ain't happening.

    To put my feelings in a way that LAUte would appreciate, you are the Fezzini of this board. Truly you have a dizzying intellect.
    What is it with this weird obsession with the Princess Bride ... lol ... it's cultural, no doubt. You citing it here only reinforces and further proves my point. ALUF Ute fans are the mirror image of BYU fans. Utah based Mormons love that movie more than any group I have ever encountered. That is just too funny chrisenrut—too funny.

  29. #29
    Senior Member Scorcho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tooblue View Post
    Dude, he's an assistant coach with the Jazz, and currently being given credit for playing a significant role in the meteoric rise of Rudy Gobert. So, who here is plugged in, and who isn't ... lol ... typical zoot.

  30. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by chrisrenrut View Post
    Do you even know what you are arguing anymore?
    I know I don't.

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