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Thread: The official Donald Trump thread

  1. #1
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    The official Donald Trump thread

    It appears that he's going to make the GOP nomination quite interesting. While I think this thread could be quite entertaining from that standpoint, I'm also curious as to what is going on inside that head of his.

    With his Presidential announcement, I was struck with an interesting question: If he's such a great business man, why is he running for President?

    I mean, from a purely business perspective, it isn't exactly the best financial investment. What was it reported that Romney spent? $50+ million? What did he get out of it? People know his name and he probably gets a lot of speaking engagements.

    But Trump was already well known and well connected. I don't know if self-promotion, even on the scale of a Presidential campaign, is really going to open many doors for him.

    The only conclusion I came to is that it allows him to create a super pac so people can just give him money.

    Any other theories?

  2. #2
    Five-O Diehard Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by U-Ute View Post
    It appears that he's going to make the GOP nomination quite interesting. While I think this thread could be quite entertaining from that standpoint, I'm also curious as to what is going on inside that head of his.

    With his Presidential announcement, I was struck with an interesting question: If he's such a great business man, why is he running for President?

    I mean, from a purely business perspective, it isn't exactly the best financial investment. What was it reported that Romney spent? $50+ million? What did he get out of it? People know his name and he probably gets a lot of speaking engagements.

    But Trump was already well known and well connected. I don't know if self-promotion, even on the scale of a Presidential campaign, is really going to open many doors for him.

    The only conclusion I came to is that it allows him to create a super pac so people can just give him money.

    Any other theories?
    One word. Ego.


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  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Diehard Ute View Post
    One word. Ego.


    Agreed.

    And it must have been a HUGE hit to his ego (and pocketbook) to have NBC and Macy's dump him. NBC had for decades been the broadcast network for his Miss USA, Miss Universe, and Miss America pageants. They also broadcast his The Apprentice shows since 2005.

    Macy's droped his line of expensive fragrances, ties, jewelry, etc.

    In his announcement speech he stated that Mexico sends its rapists, drug runners, and charity cases. I hope he keeps it up. He writes his own jokes.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by U-Ute View Post
    It appears that he's going to make the GOP nomination quite interesting. While I think this thread could be quite entertaining from that standpoint, I'm also curious as to what is going on inside that head of his.

    With his Presidential announcement, I was struck with an interesting question: If he's such a great business man, why is he running for President?

    I mean, from a purely business perspective, it isn't exactly the best financial investment. What was it reported that Romney spent? $50+ million? What did he get out of it? People know his name and he probably gets a lot of speaking engagements.

    But Trump was already well known and well connected. I don't know if self-promotion, even on the scale of a Presidential campaign, is really going to open many doors for him.

    The only conclusion I came to is that it allows him to create a super pac so people can just give him money.

    Any other theories?
    Or maybe he truly believes that open borders and illegal immigration are huge problems causing significant problems in this country. On this point he is 100% correct.

    Where he messed up is making it sound like most of those coming here illegally are criminals and rapists. I personally think most trying to get it inare decent people trying to make a better life for themselves and their families. Of course, this doesnt make it right and mean anyone from any country that wants to come here should just be able to pick up and set up shop anytime they want. While clearly the minority, there are also those that fit his description which end up contributing to gang, drug, and violence issues that and end up in our already crowded prisons on the taxpayer dime.

    In true Donald fashion, his in your face, blunt way of expressing his viewpoints went too far and is now blowing up in his face. This style may be entertaining for TV but doesn't work for politicians.

    With that said, make no mistake, the security at the border needs to be ratcheded up (a lot) and President Obama's do nothing but encourage more illegal immigration policies and stance is benefiting few Americans other than left wingers trying to lock in future votes so they never lose an election again.
    Last edited by #1 Utefan; 07-01-2015 at 12:22 PM.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by #1 Utefan View Post
    With that said, make no mistake, the security at the border needs to be ratcheded up (a lot) and President Obama's do nothing but encourage more illegal immigration policies and stance is benefiting few Americans other than left wingers trying to lock in future votes so they never lose an election again.
    Don't fall into the trap that this is just a leftist problem. The right hasn't done much to close the borders either. It's all lip service. In reality, nobody wants the borders closed down because that's where we get all of our cheap labor from.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by U-Ute View Post
    Don't fall into the trap that this is just a leftist problem. The right hasn't done much to close the borders either. It's all lip service. In reality, nobody wants the borders closed down because that's where we get all of our cheap labor from.
    I very strongly suggest that people watch the episode of HBO's 'Vice' discussing watermelon farming in rural Alabama (ep Sweet Home Alabama). The state in 2011 passed harsh regulations which made life very difficult for migrant workers (both legal and illegal) and most of them left the state.

    Suddenly the watermelon farmers couldn't find anybody to harvest their melons. They tried to get prisoners, with varied results. They hired local teenagers but most didn't last more than a few days. Bottom line, it is damn hard to bend over, pluck a 20# watermelon, set it onto the truck, and repeat for 12+ hours per day, 7 days per week, with pride that "the Mexicans can do this, but it is too hard for the soft Americans".

    Teaser for the Vice episode (a touch of nsfw language):




    This is a good write up on the episode: http://latinalista.com/palabrafinal/...immigrant-bill

    If we knew what was good for us we would double their salaries, beg them to keep picking our food, and pay the extra $0.12 per pound to cover it.

    Also watch 'No Reservations', season 5 episode 1. I think it is on Netflix. Anthony Bourdain travels to Mexico with his friend Carlos, who rose from an illegal immigrant to one of the top chefs in NYC. He discusses his history, talks about trying to come to the USA legally, then resorting to paying a coyote to smuggle him in. It is a very eye opening episode.

    Also RIP Carlos, who died earlier this year of cancer at age 38.

    Here of the episode:
    Last edited by NorthwestUteFan; 07-01-2015 at 02:58 PM.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by NorthwestUteFan View Post
    If we knew what was good for us we would double their salaries, beg them to keep picking our food, and pay the extra $0.12 per pound to cover it.
    I thought the open market would take care of this by raising wages.

    Pay enough, and someone will do it.

  8. #8
    Watch the show. They had a hard time finding anybody to do the work, for a salary they could afford to pay.

    For a few years the farmer they interviewed had to bring in his kids, his brothers, and cousins from all over to harvest the melons themselves. They couldn't hire good workers.

    And the market forces wouldn't work in their favor because melon farmers in other states didn't have the same problem. In fact they had a surplus of workers because Alabama's moved into the adjoining states.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by #1 Utefan View Post

    With that said, make no mistake, the security at the border needs to be ratcheded up (a lot) and President Obama's do nothing but encourage more illegal immigration policies and stance is benefiting few Americans other than left wingers trying to lock in future votes so they never lose an election again.
    Congratulations. Everything written here is 100 percent false.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by SoCalPat View Post
    Congratulations. Everything written here is 100 percent false.
    The best way to end illegal immigration? Stop eating food.

    Put that in your fat pipe and smoke it, TheDonald.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by SoCalPat View Post
    Congratulations. Everything written here is 100 percent false.
    Really? Please do tell why and how. Regardless, if you don't think most of Obama's motivation for doing nothing to stop illegal immigration isn't primarily political in narure, you are kidding yourself. Everything the guy has done (which admittedly hasn't been much) is politically motivated and geared to locking in votes changing voting patterns in the country.

  12. #12
    Please explain how TheDonald building a border fence, deporting all illegal aliens, and putting soldiers on the border would be anything other than a purely political move.

    For starters the overwhelming majority of immigrants from south of the border are a very important part of our labor force. They take jobs that often pay an illegally low wage, they pay plenty of taxes (sales, car registration, property taxes, usually pay income, etc) without the ability to participate in most welfare and government services. They often live in fear of getting stopped by police officers and getting deported, completely uprooting their families.

    If anything we should make it far easier to legally immigrate.

  13. #13
    Always lost in this debate on some is the reality that no country in the world with any resources to speak of allow or encourages illegal immigration. My wife is from the DR and they have a huge illegal immigration problem with Haiti. Just to clue you in, they are even more upset about illegal immigration there than we (at least our current government) seem to be here. Why don't you try moving to England, Germany, France, or Australia without work authorization and see how well that lasts before you are sent home.

    Ilegal immigration and open borders is a drain on federal and local financial resources including medical, educational, emergency services. This is true in most countries, not just the US. That is why there are laws in place that while selectively enforced, exist for a reason. Undocumented illegal immigrants don't pay taxes so they are in essence taking far more from the system than they contribute. I have a friend here in Utah that works in labor and delivery at a local hospital that says they deliver babies for undocumented workers frequently. They typically pay little of the medical bill for these services. We the taxpayers pay for all of that.

    I don't have a problem with documenting workers and allowing them to perform many of the jobs you reference. The important thing is they are documented and paying taxes and into the system like the rest of us. Your arguments are primarily based on emotion and anecdotal reasons why it should be allowed to continue while ignoring the big picture.. The reality is the labor issue you raise is easily remedied through documentation and temporary work visas I referenced earlier.
    Last edited by #1 Utefan; 07-02-2015 at 07:22 AM.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by #1 Utefan View Post
    Always lost in this debate on some is the reality that no country in the world with any resources to speak of allow or encourages illegal immigration. My wife is from the DR and they have a huge illegal immigration problem with Haiti. Just to clue you in, they are even more upset about illegal immigration there than we (at least our current government) seem to be here. Why don't you try moving to England, Germany, France, or Australia without work authorization and see how well that lasts before you are sent home.

    Ilegal immigration and open borders is a drain on federal and local financial resources including medical, educational, emergency services. This is true in most countries, not just the US. That is why there are laws in place that while selectively enforced, exist for a reason. Undocumented illegal immigrants don't pay taxes so they are in essence taking far more from the system than they contribute. I have a friend here in Utah that works in labor and delivery at a local hospital that says they deliver babies for undocumented workers frequently. They typically pay little of the medical bill for these services. We the taxpayers pay for all of that.

    I don't have a problem with documenting workers and allowing them to perform many of the jobs you reference. The important thing is they are documented and paying taxes and into the system like the rest of us. Your arguments are primarily based on emotion and anecdotal reasons why it should be allowed to continue while ignoring the big picture.. The reality is the labor issue you raise is easily remedied through documentation and temporary work visas I referenced earlier.
    Taxpayers don't pay for the cost of unpaid healthcare. The government isn't cutting a check to IHC. Healthcare consumers pay for it, but we also pay for poor utilization of healthcare of fully legal and tax paying citizens too. That's a nice way of saying healthy people pay for the unhealthy.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Rocker Ute View Post
    Taxpayers don't pay for the cost of unpaid healthcare. The government isn't cutting a check to IHC. Healthcare consumers pay for it, but we also pay for poor utilization of healthcare of fully legal and tax paying citizens too. That's a nice way of saying healthy people pay for the unhealthy.
    Good points Rocker. It doesn't change the fact that we all end up paying and subsidizing it one way or the other, though. In my mind, the inefficient use of healthcare funds by those you reference is a separate issue and discussion.

  16. #16
    On second thought Rocker, your example of IHC not being subsidized by the government may not be the best example. IHC has somehow continued to maintain the ruse that they are a not for profit entity. As a result, they are paying little to no taxes.

    Anyone that has worked with or had dealings with IHC knows better. They are in every sense of the word a for profit, bottomline, and borderline monopolostic business. In other words, they are a business and should pay taxes just as most of their competitors are required to do.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by NorthwestUteFan View Post
    Watch the show. They had a hard time finding anybody to do the work, for a salary they could afford to pay.
    At the risk of sounding heartless, it sounds like the market has spoken. I understand this is a family business and all, and I feel bad for them, but if your business model means you can't afford to pay for better employees, your business model is broken.

  18. #18
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  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by U-Ute View Post
    At the risk of sounding heartless, it sounds like the market has spoken. I understand this is a family business and all, and I feel bad for them, but if your business model means you can't afford to pay for better employees, your business model is broken.
    If you have HBO, watch the show. (If not then PM me and I might be able to add your computer to my HBOgo account). This isn't about only one family because the law affected all of the farmers in that state. But it especially affected farmers in that county, because the county sheriff went out of his way to use the new law to harrass immigrants.

    "The Market" is a very cruel mistress when you are selling to a national marketplace (at a national price), but are being being unduly crushed by a reactionary local law, while your competitors do not operate under the same business conditions.

    And LOL at TheDonald's merch being made in Mexico.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by NorthwestUteFan View Post
    If you have HBO, watch the show. (If not then PM me and I might be able to add your computer to my HBOgo account). This isn't about only one family because the law affected all of the farmers in that state. But it especially affected farmers in that county, because the county sheriff went out of his way to use the new law to harrass immigrants.
    I have no doubt that the law made it difficult for them to compete with their neighbors. That's just insane. Its the same problem we have with China on a global scale.

    My point was a more general one since the argument of "we can't afford to pay higher wages" is made all the time to rationalize pay scales in all industries.

  21. #21
    They offered a fairly significant pay raise over what they were paying, but still had a hard time finding workers who were as efficient as the migrant workers.

  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by NorthwestUteFan View Post
    If you have HBO, watch the show. (If not then PM me and I might be able to add your computer to my HBOgo account). This isn't about only one family because the law affected all of the farmers in that state. But it especially affected farmers in that county, because the county sheriff went out of his way to use the new law to harrass immigrants.

    "The Market" is a very cruel mistress when you are selling to a national marketplace (at a national price), but are being being unduly crushed by a reactionary local law, while your competitors do not operate under the same business conditions.

    And LOL at TheDonald's merch being made in Mexico.
    Was this HBO special a Bill Maher production by chance?

  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by #1 Utefan View Post
    Was this HBO special a Bill Maher production by chance?
    He produces it, but the story was done by a contributing journalist.

    Don't dismiss it out of hand based on the messenger.

  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by NorthwestUteFan View Post
    He produces it, but the story was done by a contributing journalist.

    Don't dismiss it out of hand based on the messenger.
    I won't dismiss it out of hand. Something tells me, however, if I was talking up a Sean Hannity produced special on the problems and potential dangers of unchecked illegal immigration on here, you and most liberal posters would be stumbling over yourselves trying to dismiss and discredit it. I've seen that movie way too many times to think otherwise.
    Last edited by #1 Utefan; 07-02-2015 at 02:05 PM.

  25. #25
    Again, the point of the story was to show the danger of writing emotional, reactionary laws. In this case the local outcry to seal the borders and deport all of those filthy illegals empowered the local law enforcement to chase away a significant portion of the workforce.

    I am not a fan of anybody who dehumanizes another person. TheDonald is the king of this. He is the ultimate beneficiary of the Lucky Sperm Club, and has the audacity to blame a population whose aim is create a better life for their families, and to escape what amounts to a shitty civil war between drug cartels funded by users in the US of A.

    'Murrica.

  26. #26
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    The next year is going to be so much fun...

    http://m.dailykos.com/story/2015/07/...is-obliterated

    EDIT: I don't know why people like that respond to comedy writers. You'll never win. It never fails to amaze me when when people like Jon Stewart or John Oliver goad people into responding. Its like that saying about wrestling with a pig: you both get dirty, then you realize the pig likes it.
    Last edited by U-Ute; 07-07-2015 at 10:03 AM.

  27. #27
    I was watching the 30 for 30 on the USFL last night, I'm now convinced that if he doesn't get the nomination that he'll run for president in Mexico or Canada and then sue the U.S. for monopolistic practices tanking the respective country in the process.

  28. #28
    Behold, The Don's 2005 tax return....

    http://www.msnbc.com/sites/msnbc/files/trump2005tax.pdf

    Rachel Maddow spent an hour with David Cay Johnston going over the return. Lots of anticipation to be sure, but, nothing unusual beyond the typical MSNBC speculation and innuendo. Lawrence O Donnell picked up for another 40 minutes where Maddow ended, and Maddow literally walked across the hallway to join O Donnell on his show. Johnston as well as a NYU tax attorney joined in the fun. Again, nothing revealing beyond the fact Trump made gobs of money in 2005, and paid gobs of money in 2005. The most entertaining part of the show was when Johnston said there's no way Melania Trump could've earned $1mm in salary as she was only in sleazy porns -- and which time Maddow jumped in to save the guy....and the show....from himself/itself. Brian Williams then took the baton and after about 10 minutes I turned it off. In two hours not a single interesting point was made. How does that channel stay in business?

    On a related note, this is my fave Lawrence O Donnell moment......really, the guy belongs in a straightjacket rocking back and forth in a padded room.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8aWjIpkxcak
    “Children and dogs are as necessary to the welfare of the country as Wall Street and the railroads.” -- Harry S. Truman

    "You never soar so high as when you stoop down to help a child or an animal." -- Jewish Proverb

    "Three-time Pro Bowler Eric Weddle the most versatile, and maybe most intelligent, safety in the game." -- SI, 9/7/15, p. 107.

  29. #29
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    He's claiming that someone leaked them, but it is interesting to note they are stamped "Client Copy" leading many to speculate that he leaked his own (and I must admit - favorable) tax returns to create a false crisis.

    http://www.cnbc.com/2017/03/14/trump...list-says.html

  30. #30
    I'm more appalled that he paid 24% in taxes. This is the United States. My middle class folk pay 24%, not my rich folk. How is he not smart enough to be paying 13% in taxes?

    My rich people don't pay taxes, they GET help from the government. I want to tax my poor and give breaks to my rich. How dumb is this guy?

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