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Thread: President Thomas S. Monson

  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    Pres. Nelson will be calling two new apostles. That's four new apostles in the last 2.5 years. Pretty big change -- one-third of the Quorum -- in a short period of time.
    Of the current group:

    5 are in there 60s (Gary Stevenson is the youngest at 62).
    3 are in there 70s
    2 in there 80s

    And President Nelson is 93.

    So you will very likely have 2 more in there 60s or potentially mid to late 50s. Should be interesting.

    If you look at the likely pool that they'll fill those spots from (Presiding Bishopric and Presidency of the Seventy) all of those guys are in their 50s and 60s. Bishop Causse is 54. He'd be a fantastic addition, I think.
    “It only ends once. Anything that happens before that is just progress.”

    Well, because he thought it was good sport. Because some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.

  2. #32
    I'm not too excited about Pres. Nelson...

    1. His anti-evolution talk a few years ago.
    2. His unconditional love is conditional talk/article
    3. His wife's crazy book: "The not even once club"
    4. The Nov policy
    5. I always feel like a 7 year old when I listen to him speak.

  3. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian View Post
    1. His anti-evolution talk a few years ago.
    2. His unconditional love is conditional talk/article
    3. His wife's crazy book: "The not even once club"
    4. The Nov policy
    5. I always feel like a 7 year old when I listen to him speak.
    I don't remember #1 or #2. I suspect there is some interpretation at play? I never heard of #3. I guess I have some googling to do.

  4. #34
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian View Post
    I'm not too excited about Pres. Nelson...

    1. His anti-evolution talk a few years ago.
    2. His unconditional love is conditional talk/article
    3. His wife's crazy book: "The not even once club"
    4. The Nov policy
    5. I always feel like a 7 year old when I listen to him speak.
    It will be interesting to see how he changes as he assumes the mantle. In my lifetime, Presidents Smith, Kimball and Benson all seemed to soften when they became president of the Church. I work with surgeons all the time, and Pres. Nelson definitely fits the typical profile. Nothing wrong with that. Surgery -- especially cardiothoracic surgery -- attracts a certain personality type that is decisive, comfortable being in charge, and so forth. No one would want a CT surgeon operating on them who is any other way.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  5. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    I don't remember #1 or #2. I suspect there is some interpretation at play? I never heard of #3. I guess I have some googling to do.

    1. https://www.lds.org/general-conferen...o-god?lang=eng
    A quote from that talk:
    "Yet some people erroneously think that these marvelous physical attributes happened by chance or resulted from a big bang somewhere. Ask yourself, “Could an explosion in a printing shop produce a dictionary?” The likelihood is most remote. But if so, it could never heal its own torn pages or reproduce its own newer editions!"

    Strawman much? Nobody who understand evolution is making this claim.

    2.
    https://www.lds.org/ensign/2003/02/divine-love?lang=eng

    3. https://deseretbook.com/p/not-even-o...7444-hardcover
    From the book description at desert book:
    "The Not Even Once Club is an adorable and appealing way to engage children in a story that will help them choose for themselves to keep the commandments and to never break them. Not even once."




  6. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    It will be interesting to see how he changes as he assumes the mantle. In my lifetime, Presidents Smith, Kimball and Benson all seemed to soften when they became president of the Church. I work with surgeons all the time, and Pres. Nelson definitely fits the typical profile. Nothing wrong with that. Surgery -- especially cardiothoracic surgery -- attracts a certain personality type that is decisive, comfortable being in charge, and so forth. No one would want a CT surgeon operating on them who is any other way.

    Good points. It will be interesting to see how things evolve (sorry Pres. Nelson.... (c: )
    My only memory is with Benson, and that was when I was in high school, and not paying much attention to these sorts of things....

    I just finished reading the Leonard Arrington biography where Benson is a major player. Given that lens, the McKay biography, as well as what I have learned about Benson over the years, he was singing the same tune as prophet, but volume was turned down a bit. A distinction, but how much difference? I don't know.

    Interesting times.

  7. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian View Post
    1. https://www.lds.org/general-conferen...o-god?lang=eng
    A quote from that talk:
    "Yet some people erroneously think that these marvelous physical attributes happened by chance or resulted from a big bang somewhere. Ask yourself, “Could an explosion in a printing shop produce a dictionary?” The likelihood is most remote. But if so, it could never heal its own torn pages or reproduce its own newer editions!"

    Strawman much? Nobody who understand evolution is making this claim.

    2.
    https://www.lds.org/ensign/2003/02/divine-love?lang=eng

    3. https://deseretbook.com/p/not-even-o...7444-hardcover
    From the book description at desert book:
    "The Not Even Once Club is an adorable and appealing way to engage children in a story that will help them choose for themselves to keep the commandments and to never break them. Not even once."

    1) You characterized his talk as "anti-evolution," but that is the only paragraph that even comes close to referencing evolution. And even that paragraph is more pro-creation than anti-evolution. I have no idea what Pres. Nelson thinks about evolution. He does praise creation regularly in his talks, especially the miracles of the human body. I think he has a deep appreciation for those things.

    2) I agree with you. It's bad form to call God's love conditional in any way, even if what he really seems to mean is that God's blessings are conditional. He's splitting hairs between the terms universal and unconditional. Probably shouldn't try to do that.

    3) It's a kids book? Without reading it (and, let's be honest, none of us ever will), I'm not that concerned. The Deseret Book factory churns out a ton of art, books, and music that I can't stand. This one seems relatively harmless.

  8. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Dwight Schr-Ute View Post
    I bet you felt better prepared for the news last night!


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    I am happy that he is no longer suffering.

  9. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian View Post
    1. https://www.lds.org/general-conferen...o-god?lang=eng
    A quote from that talk:
    "Yet some people erroneously think that these marvelous physical attributes happened by chance or resulted from a big bang somewhere. Ask yourself, “Could an explosion in a printing shop produce a dictionary?” The likelihood is most remote. But if so, it could never heal its own torn pages or reproduce its own newer editions!"

    Strawman much? Nobody who understand evolution is making this claim.

    2.
    https://www.lds.org/ensign/2003/02/divine-love?lang=eng

    3. https://deseretbook.com/p/not-even-o...7444-hardcover
    From the book description at desert book:
    "The Not Even Once Club is an adorable and appealing way to engage children in a story that will help them choose for themselves to keep the commandments and to never break them. Not even once."
    https://www.theguardian.com/science/...f-creationists

    We clearly need to be careful not to assume that when people say they are rejecting “evolutionary science”, they are rejecting all scientific research or indeed all of what we might think of as evolutionary science. ‘Evolution’ as a term has gained a mishmash of cultural baggage over the years, not least a strong association with ‘New Atheist’ movements ...

    Furthermore, doubts about evolutionary science frequently appear to be related to the perceived limitations of evolutionary science-based explanations for human origins and human consciousness.

  10. #40
    Handsome Boy Graduate mpfunk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocker Ute View Post
    Recently I had an opportunity to interact with President Nelson. He may be getting frail physically but mentally he is as sharp as ever. In the course of the situation I asked him if he had any special requests or something he would like me to do and he joked, "I'll tell you what, I'll trust you to do your job if you trust me to do mine." It immediately put everyone at ease.

    The old guard that have been fixtures in the church my entire life are moving on... I think the church will be quite a bit different in some ways a decade from now.
    I hope you are right, but I think you are wrong. We are the death of a 93 year old man away from having Dallin H. Oaks as prophet. How many years would it take to unravel 1 year of regression with regards to the LGBTQ and women if he is ever prophet. I'd say at least 3-5 years for every year. I bet anything he would advocate for would make the exclusion policy look kind.
    So I said to David Eckstein, "You promised me, Eckstein, that if I followed you, you would walk with me always. But I noticed that during the most trying periods of my life, there have only been one set of prints in the sand. Why, when I have needed you most, have you not been there for me?" David Eckstein replied, "Because my little legs had gotten tired, and you were carrying me." And I looked down and saw that I was still carrying David Eckstein.
    --fjm.com

  11. #41
    Handsome Boy Graduate mpfunk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian View Post
    I'm not too excited about Pres. Nelson...

    1. His anti-evolution talk a few years ago.
    2. His unconditional love is conditional talk/article
    3. His wife's crazy book: "The not even once club"
    4. The Nov policy
    5. I always feel like a 7 year old when I listen to him speak.
    Sure I can see why you aren't thrilled. I'm not sure that anyone except possibly Uchtdorf should generate excitement, and even then it is only in comparison to the alternatives. However, it isn't Oaks and that right there makes a huge difference. So, you should be happy with Nelson for at least that reason.
    So I said to David Eckstein, "You promised me, Eckstein, that if I followed you, you would walk with me always. But I noticed that during the most trying periods of my life, there have only been one set of prints in the sand. Why, when I have needed you most, have you not been there for me?" David Eckstein replied, "Because my little legs had gotten tired, and you were carrying me." And I looked down and saw that I was still carrying David Eckstein.
    --fjm.com

  12. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by mpfunk View Post
    I hope you are right, but I think you are wrong. We are the death of a 93 year old man away from having Dallin H. Oaks as prophet. How many years would it take to unravel 1 year of regression with regards to the LGBTQ and women if he is ever prophet. I'd say at least 3-5 years for every year. I bet anything he would advocate for would make the exclusion policy look kind.
    Quote Originally Posted by mpfunk View Post
    Sure I can see why you aren't thrilled. I'm not sure that anyone except possibly Uchtdorf should generate excitement, and even then it is only in comparison to the alternatives. However, it isn't Oaks and that right there makes a huge difference. So, you should be happy with Nelson for at least that reason.
    I think you're wrong on this one. I don't think we can possibly know how someone is going to act when they are in the big chair, until they are actually in the big chair. It's like the BYU fans that spend time wringing their collective hands over what might happen to their athletic programs under Bednar. Might as well just wait to see how it all plays out. The likelihood that anything regresses, IMO, seems pretty low at this point. Plus, while I think the church is slow to change on the macro level, the church is absolutely changing for the better on the local level, because the individual members are deciding to not just mail it in, but rather show up and make a positive impact on their ward. Now, maybe that trickles up, maybe it doesn't, but we would all be wise to worry about what we can control, and act accordingly, rather than worry about what we can't control, or, what may never come to be.
    “It only ends once. Anything that happens before that is just progress.”

    Well, because he thought it was good sport. Because some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.

  13. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by DrumNFeather View Post
    I think you're wrong on this one. I don't think we can possibly know how someone is going to act when they are in the big chair, until they are actually in the big chair.
    Everyone should be allowed 1 irrational hatred. I hate Stanford, and mpfunk hates Elder Oaks. It's all good!

  14. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by DrumNFeather View Post
    I think you're wrong on this one. I don't think we can possibly know how someone is going to act when they are in the big chair, until they are actually in the big chair.

    You very well might be right; generally the US presidency changes the president. But people said the same thing about Trump, and he changed the presidency rather than the other way around.

  15. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    1) You characterized his talk as "anti-evolution," but that is the only paragraph that even comes close to referencing evolution. And even that paragraph is more pro-creation than anti-evolution. I have no idea what Pres. Nelson thinks about evolution. He does praise creation regularly in his talks, especially the miracles of the human body. I think he has a deep appreciation for those things.
    Yes, fair point.
    I guess the thing that irritated me the most is the horrible strawman argument he used. It's irresponsible, and irrelevant, and feeds the anti-science crowd (whether he intended to, or not).
    And I guess it scratches my itch that I feel like I'm in primary when I hear him talk.

    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    3) It's a kids book? Without reading it (and, let's be honest, none of us ever will), I'm not that concerned. The Deseret Book factory churns out a ton of art, books, and music that I can't stand. This one seems relatively harmless.
    The thing that bothered me was that this was the wife of an apostle. I have heard from several people (albeit, not first hand) that she is the tail wagging the dog. It's a children's book on perfectionism, which is not something we need more of in the church. Maybe he disagrees with her, but she has his ear.

  16. #46
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    If you ignore the inflammatory headline, this is an interesting story. McKay Coppins is right, I think.

    https://www.dailywire.com/news/25411...s-ben-shapiro#

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  17. #47
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    McKay Coppins' piece in the Atlantic:

    The Death of a Prophet

    Thomas Monson, the late Mormon church president, stressed the importance of community in an increasingly atomized nation.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  18. #48
    None of these obits mentions the real thing of value that president monson did: his Utes were 8-1 against the cougars during his presidency!

  19. #49
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Applejack View Post
    None of these obits mentions the real thing of value that president monson did: his Utes were 8-1 against the cougars during his presidency!
    How could we have failed to mention that? Thanks.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  20. #50
    Nelson is a Utah man.
    Hope he makes it to triple digits and a 7-0 run for his Utes.

  21. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    How could we have failed to mention that? Thanks.

    Don't know if you caught this article, but, it appears Pres Monson's real love was not BYU or Utah, but....Michigan football....

    https://www.ksl.com/?sid=43765748&nid=294
    “Children and dogs are as necessary to the welfare of the country as Wall Street and the railroads.” -- Harry S. Truman

    "You never soar so high as when you stoop down to help a child or an animal." -- Jewish Proverb

    "Three-time Pro Bowler Eric Weddle the most versatile, and maybe most intelligent, safety in the game." -- SI, 9/7/15, p. 107.

  22. #52
    Wow, Uchtdorf dropped from FP.

  23. #53
    The Bald Brethren.




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  24. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Dwight Schr-Ute View Post
    The Bald Brethren.




    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

    I finally feel like I am in good company. The Silver Fox was making us all look bad.

  25. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian View Post
    Wow, Uchtdorf dropped from FP.
    Not sure how I feel about that...

    On second thought, I am sure, but will keep it to myself. 🤬

  26. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Rocker Ute View Post
    I finally feel like I am in good company. The Silver Fox was making us all look bad.
    For the record, my wife reminded me over the weekend that the new Prophet married us back in the day.

    Does that give me special powers?

  27. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Sullyute View Post
    Not sure how I feel about that...

    On second thought, I am sure, but will keep it to myself. 🤬
    We should form a group.


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  28. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Sullyute View Post
    Not sure how I feel about that...

    On second thought, I am sure, but will keep it to myself. 郎
    I'll also miss hearing him speak twice at conference.

    I think it's not a bad idea to have the likely next president in the first presidency.

  29. #59
    Senior Member Scorcho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    I'll also miss hearing him speak twice at conference.

    I think it's not a bad idea to have the likely next president in the first presidency.
    since they cut the Priesthood session down to just once a year, we might only get him twice a year (once per conference)

    by the way, what am I supposed to do come fall general conference on Saturday Night? I'm not much for crafts? I'll be looking for continued spiritual guidance from Kirk Herbstreit or Yogi Roth

  30. #60
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sullyute View Post
    Not sure how I feel about that...

    On second thought, I am sure, but will keep it to myself. 郎
    I won't. I feel bad about it and will miss him as a FP member.

    I suppose it's good for President Oaks (now 85?) to be in First Presidency for a while to learn the ropes, since he's the likely successor to Pres. Nelson. On the other hand, I remember when Harold B. Lee became president at the age of 73, I think. He signed my mission call so I was paying close attention to him. I think he passed 18 months later. Everyone was shocked. So you never know.
    Last edited by LA Ute; 01-16-2018 at 01:24 PM.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

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