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Thread: United Air Lines

  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by chrisrenrut View Post
    There is plenty of blame and punishment to go around.

    United is to be blamed for it's policies and not increasing their offer for volunteers. Their punishment is a PR nightmare, and dropping stock prices (but they'll bounce back).

    The security/police is to be blamed for their brutal enforcement techniques. They have already suspended one of their personnel.

    The passenger is to be blamed for behaving like a ornery 4 year old. His punishment in addition to his bloody face, is his reputation is being smeared all over social media (for both being petulant and kind of a scumbag).
    I don't disagree that the man behaved poorly, but we are starting to get more of the story. United didn't give him all of the information, at least according to witnesses on the plane:

    "The man who ended up bloodied and screaming Sunday night had initially agreed to get off the plane, passenger Jayse Anspach said. "Him and his wife, they volunteered initially," Anspach said. "But once they found out that the next flight wasn't until (Monday) at 2:30 p.m., he said, 'I can't do that. I gotta be at work.' So he sat back down." The harder the officers tried to get the man to leave, the harder the man insisted he stay.

    http://www.cnn.com/2017/04/11/travel...ght/index.html

  2. #32
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    I am not an aviation law expert so I'll post this info from an attorney friend of mine for what it is worth:

    The myth that United complied with the regulations for overbooking through involuntary denial of boarding procedures is debunked by the lawyer who posted to Reddit. Obviously the attorney is familiar with aviation law.

    This myth that passengers don't have rights needs to go away, ASAP. You are dead wrong when saying that United legally kicked him off the plane.

    1. First of all, it's airline spin to call this an overbooking. The statutory provision granting them the ability to deny boarding is about "OVERSALES", specifically defines as booking more reserved confirmed seats than there are available. This is not what happened. They did not overbook the flight; they had a fully booked flight, and not only did everyone already have a reserved confirmed seat, they were all sitting in them. The law allowing them to denying boarding in the event of an oversale does not apply.

    2. Even if it did apply, the law is unambiguously clear that airlines have to give preference to everyone with reserved confirmed seats when choosing to involuntarily deny boarding. They have to always choose the solution that will affect the least amount of reserved confirmed seats. This rule is straightforward, and United makes very clear in their own contract of carriage that employees of their own or of other carriers may be denied boarding without compensation because they do not have reserved confirmed seats. On its face, it's clear that what they did was illegal-- they gave preference to their employees over people who had reserved confirmed seats, in violation of 14 CFR 250.2a.

    3. Furthermore, even if you try and twist this into a legal application of 250.2a and say that United had the right to deny him boarding in the event of an overbooking; they did NOT have the right to kick him off the plane. Their contract of carriage highlights there is a complete difference in rights after you've boarded and sat on the plane, and Rule 21 goes over the specific scenarios where you could get kicked off. NONE of them apply here. He did absolutely nothing wrong and shouldn't have been targeted. He's going to leave with a hefty settlement after this fiasco.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    "Nine tenths of wisdom consists of being wise in time."
    --Theodore Roosevelt


  3. #33
    Administrator U-Ute's Avatar
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    United Air Lines

    My experience from a couple of years ago when I took 2 of my boys to Eugene for the 62-20 game.

    They overbooked the flight back to SLC and asked for people to be bumped, and then randomly bumped us.

    We had to take the next flight out which was the next morning.

    I found out the airlines have a deal with the FAA on overbooking.

    If your next flight lands one, two, or four hours after your original flight lands, they have to give you 2x, 3x, or 4x the cost of your original 1 way ticket price as a fine as well as a free flight.

    This is why they offer you $200-$500 in vouchers. It ends up being cheaper than the fine.

    Since the next flight for us didn't go out until the next morning, and the 1 way ticket price was roughly $300, we got 3 checks for $1200 (the 4x fine). It worked out well for us since we were staying with my aunt and uncle in Corvallis, so we just went and spent the day with them and flew out the next morning.

    The whole trip originally cost me about $2000 for flights for the 3 of us, so Delta basically paid me me a couple thousand dollars to pay for me and my boys to fly up and watch Utah kick Oregon's ass and spend the weekend with family.

    EDIT: That's also why they start with the cheap seats since the fine is based on your ticket price. These are the things you find out when you don't freak out at the counter people since they don't have any control over this.

    EDIT2: The reason they have this deal is because a certain percentage of people don't show up for their flights, allowing them to maximize their seat usage. We don't hear about how many people don't get bumped because someone didn't show up. It must work even with the 4x fine schedule since they do overbook on a regular basis. It blows my mind that people don't show up for their flights.

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    Last edited by U-Ute; 04-12-2017 at 08:57 AM.

  4. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by U-Ute View Post
    It blows my mind that people don't show up for their flights.
    I may or may not have shown up for multiple flights. If you have ever done hidden city ticketing then it is common to not show up. (It is also a violation of the contract of carriage)

  5. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Sullyute View Post
    I may or may not have shown up for multiple flights. If you have ever done hidden city ticketing then it is common to not show up. (It is also a violation of the contract of carriage)
    Along those lines I recently ran into a co-worker at the airport. He and his wife had bought tickets to Paris for $400. The deal, however, was only for a flight originating in Denver with a stopover in SLC. Since they live in Salt Lake he asked the airline if they could just catch the flight in SLC. He was informed that the deal was only for the flight from Denver. So, he bout a cheap ($39) one-way ticket to Denver on another carrier and then got on a plane back to SLC. On the return trip from Paris they just won't show up to get back on the plane after the layover.
    "Don't apologize; it's not your fault. It's my fault for overestimating your competence."

  6. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Two Utes View Post
    That's not the point. Of course, if you buy a ticket you should get to keep it. But if they say you have to leave, you need to leave. You can't act like a two year old and scream and hold onto you chair. Instead, you get off the goddamn plane and figure out your next option. That's what you would do and that's what I would do. Because we are adults.

    And by the way, I hate United. I will never fly them if I can absolutely avoid it.

    And of course Adam Carolla agrees with me.

    Adam CarollaVerified account @adamcarolla 15h15 hours agoMore



    Adam Carolla Retweeted Wayne
    That crazy pussy should have got off the plane the 26th time he was told. Mistakes are made all the time but you must comply.




    Whether good or bad, I think he and I have some cosmos connection.

  7. #37
    This is dead on 100%

    https://danwetzelsports.tumblr.com/p...avel-a-lot-for


    Don't get me started on the dog craze at airports these days.

  8. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Two Utes View Post
    This is dead on 100%

    https://danwetzelsports.tumblr.com/p...avel-a-lot-for


    Don't get me started on the dog craze at airports these days.
    This is just to offer up an alternate viewpoint, that the passenger isn't a villain or the village idiot. Just a guy who made some poor decisions in life and ran afoul of the law. But also a guy who escaped Vietnam by boat in 1975 and has five kids, per this article:

    https://www.theguardian.com/business...urgery-lawsuit

    He's a much more sympathetic character than many might want to admit. More importantly, some of what is highlighted by Dan Wetzel's article could be solved by the airlines themselves. When people are treated like herded animals, they often end up acting like herded animals.

  9. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by tooblue View Post
    This is just to offer up an alternate viewpoint, that the passenger isn't a villain or the village idiot. Just a guy who made some poor decisions in life and ran afoul of the law. But also a guy who escaped Vietnam by boat in 1975 and has five kids, per this article:

    https://www.theguardian.com/business...urgery-lawsuit

    He's a much more sympathetic character than many might want to admit. More importantly, some of what is highlighted by Dan Wetzel's article could be solved by the airlines themselves. When people are treated like herded animals, they often end up acting like herded animals.
    I don't care what his background is, he acted like a two year old.

    When you are at an airport, there is no way around being herded like animals--except to get rid of a bunch of passengers. The only way you do that is going back to "Mad Men" times where only the elite fly. To be honest, I may not mind that, but most of the folks defending this guy likely would.

    I Love the "solve this problem and make it better", but make sure it doesn't cost me any more to do it attitude.

    Bottom line is, most people who fly a lot think the guy acted like a two year old. Those who are experienced know this shit happens and each of us takes our turn dealing with it, like humans, not like two year olds.

    But I'm beating a dead horse. I'm done with the topic. Fire away, but I won't respond.

  10. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Two Utes View Post
    This is dead on 100%

    https://danwetzelsports.tumblr.com/p...avel-a-lot-for


    Don't get me started on the dog craze at airports these days.
    I'm with you on the dogs. The rest is whiny, though. Someone drinking coffee? Really? The drink cart is a major annoyance? Dan needs some Feng Shui in his life.

    How does the person who lowers his seat into your lap not on this list? Airline seats should not recline.

  11. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Two Utes View Post

    But I'm beating a dead horse. I'm done with the topic. Fire away, but I won't respond.
    Of course you won't. Two year olds gotta do what two year olds gotta do ... lol

  12. #42
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Competitors jumping on the opportunity to exploit United's screw-up:

    Delta OKs offers of up to $9,950 to flyers who give up seats

    http://abcnews.go.com/Business/wireS...seats-46808209

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    "Nine tenths of wisdom consists of being wise in time."
    --Theodore Roosevelt


  13. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Two Utes View Post
    This is dead on 100%

    https://danwetzelsports.tumblr.com/p...avel-a-lot-for


    Don't get me started on the dog craze at airports these days.
    Fun list. I've been guilty of bringing dinner on an airplane. And.....huge thumbs up on Adam Carolla -- the guy nails it 90 percent of the time.

    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    I'm with you on the dogs. The rest is whiny, though. Someone drinking coffee? Really? The drink cart is a major annoyance? Dan needs some Feng Shui in his life.

    How does the person who lowers his seat into your lap not on this list? Airline seats should not recline.
    I think I'm your Bizarro Jerry. If I want to recline 2 degrees, I'll do it and not apologize -- now THAT'S whining.

    Personally, I don't bring my dogs with me to stores or airports etc..... but, I'm betting I'd prefer bumping into your dogs over you two so bring em along. In fact, if every store I shopped at had 100 English Bulldogs running free, my shopping experience would improve a million-fold. Dogs are awesome. People.....not so much.
    “Children and dogs are as necessary to the welfare of the country as Wall Street and the railroads.” -- Harry S. Truman

    "You never soar so high as when you stoop down to help a child or an animal." -- Jewish Proverb

    "Three-time Pro Bowler Eric Weddle the most versatile, and maybe most intelligent, safety in the game." -- SI, 9/7/15, p. 107.

  14. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by mUUser View Post
    Fun list. I've been guilty of bringing dinner on an airplane. And.....huge thumbs up on Adam Carolla -- the guy nails it 90 percent of the time.



    I think I'm your Bizarro Jerry. If I want to recline 2 degrees, I'll do it and not apologize -- now THAT'S whining.

    Personally, I don't bring my dogs with me to stores or airports etc..... but, I'm betting I'd prefer bumping into your dogs over you two so bring em along. In fact, if every store I shopped at had 100 English Bulldogs running free, my shopping experience would improve a million-fold. Dogs are awesome. People.....not so much.
    At 6'3" my knees sort of fit behind the seat when it is upright. If someone reclines it makes the flight nearly unbearable as my legs go numb because I can't move them and the chair is pressed into them the whole time.

    I'll typically sit down and jam my knees against the back of the seat so when the chump sits down in front of me and tries to recline he'll think the button is broken. Nothing brings me joy quite like watching a guy bang back in his chair or rock back and forth trying to get it to budge and then giving up. I had a guy once nearly have a conniption when he thought his seat was broken. He was loud and smelled bad.

    I'm watering down how I really feel, but people who recline on a plane are the worst people on earth.




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  15. #45
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    "Nine tenths of wisdom consists of being wise in time."
    --Theodore Roosevelt


  16. #46
    http://www.sltrib.com/news/5186614-1...e-traveling-to
    Couple removed (peacefully) for allegedly sitting in the wrong seats. They were flying to their wedding on Costa Rica.
    "Don't apologize; it's not your fault. It's my fault for overestimating your competence."

  17. #47
    I agree that many passengers these days act like idiots and are oblivious to their behaviour. But the airlines must shoulder much of blamed for a lot of what is going on:

    http://time.com/4751475/american-air.../?xid=homepage

    http://www.cnn.com/2017/04/22/us/ame...ontation-trnd/

  18. #48
    Administrator U-Ute's Avatar
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    Better than middle seat


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  19. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by U-Ute View Post
    Better than middle seat


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    I love the middle seat because then I have TWO people to talk to the whole time!


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  20. #50
    Administrator U-Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocker Ute View Post
    I love the middle seat because then I have TWO people to talk to the whole time!


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    I prefer to think of them as left AND right pillows


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  21. #51
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    "Nine tenths of wisdom consists of being wise in time."
    --Theodore Roosevelt


  22. #52
    Administrator U-Ute's Avatar
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    United Air Lines

    Southwest has had some of the best pre-flight checks. I almost look forward to them. It is usually the best part of the whole experience.

    We had one on Delta on our flight to Hawaii where they used a video on the seat instead. It was hilarious.

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