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Thread: The Kyle Kuzma Thread

  1. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by U-Ute View Post
    So, does the fact we had 3 first round NBA guys on the roster 2 years ago make you Larry can find/develop these players, or sad that we only got to the Sweet 16?
    I was wondering, who underperformed more--the bb team with 3 first rounders in 3 years, or the fb team, with 8 draftees this year.

  2. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by U-Ute View Post
    So, does the fact we had 3 first round NBA guys on the roster 2 years ago make you Larry can find/develop these players, or sad that we only got to the Sweet 16?
    I don't think I will ever say "only sweet 16." That's such a high mark, especially for us.

    I'm not sure there is a takeaway message other than that we had some good luck with players. Although, after his freshman year, I would have never believed that Kuzma would be a first round NBA draft pick. So kudos to the coaching staff on that.

    Wright and Poeltl are the opposite, I was sure of their future the first time I saw each of them play.

  3. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    I don't think I will ever say "only sweet 16." That's such a high mark, especially for us.

    I'm not sure there is a takeaway message other than that we had some good luck with players. Although, after his freshman year, I would have never believed that Kuzma would be a first round NBA draft pick. So kudos to the coaching staff on that.

    Wright and Poeltl are the opposite, I was sure of their future the first time I saw each of them play.
    Yeah, Kuzma is the player for whom I have to give props to the coaches. The first time DWright stepped on the court I knew he would get drafted. And Poeltl a few games in I was hoping he would be back for his sophomore season. But during his freshman season, I thought Kuzma would end up a sixth man at best. I was MUCH higher on Chapman. I would not have been shocked to see Chapman eventually.

  4. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by Applejack View Post
    Yeah, Kuzma is the player for whom I have to give props to the coaches. The first time DWright stepped on the court I knew he would get drafted. And Poeltl a few games in I was hoping he would be back for his sophomore season. But during his freshman season, I thought Kuzma would end up a sixth man at best. I was MUCH higher on Chapman. I would not have been shocked to see Chapman eventually.
    When they were Fr, Chapman was much better than Kuzma but their Soph seasons they flip-flopped. Chapman looked like he didn't care or want to be here and Kuzma really took a big step forward.

  5. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by U-Ute View Post
    So, does the fact we had 3 first round NBA guys on the roster 2 years ago make you Larry can find/develop these players, or sad that we only got to the Sweet 16?
    In all fairness, Kuz was not a first rounder 2 years ago. In fact, as of the end of the season, it was borderline that he would even be drafted. Props to him for his handwork and diligence in the combine and workouts. He worked himself into guaranteed money.

  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by concerned View Post
    I was wondering, who underperformed more--the bb team with 3 first rounders in 3 years, or the fb team, with 8 draftees this year.
    The Sweet 16 is arguably the football equivalent of a Pac-12 South title and possible NY6 game.

    The basketball equivalent of the Foster Farms bowl and a 3rd-place division finish is the NIT.

    There are arguments for the hoops team underachieving in the Sweet 16 year, but in the end, that was largely the expectation we put on the team in the preseason. And it's still a much higher bar than the one the football team set this year. Based on draft results, football flopped miserably.

  7. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by SoCalPat View Post
    The basketball equivalent of the Foster Farms bowl and a 3rd-place division finish is the NIT.
    What's the basketball equivalent of finishing #23 in the nation? A 2nd round game in the NCAA?
    Last edited by sancho; 06-23-2017 at 12:44 PM.

  8. #98
    All draft picks are not the same. We set a new record for draft picks with a lot of late rounders, and Kuzma snuck into the first round, but probably won't be a NBA starter (unless he plays for the Kings or some other persistent bottom dweller).

    We're still on the way up. We're not USC, and we're not Kentucky. There's room to grow, in both. The talent base in FB should mean we don't have the same hangover CU will, this year. We'll see.

    In hoops Larry had a tough year, professionally and personally. (I still don't get his health issues. Geez.) Reason to think some bad apples are gone - we'll see.

  9. #99
    I've heard that LA made a promise to him and that's why he dropped out of the combine.

  10. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by Utah View Post
    I've heard that LA made a promise to him and that's why he dropped out of the combine.
    I have a hunch Magic Johnson got background on Kuzma from Michigan, had some insight that helped him see Kuz as having the character to make it.

    This is why I think Boston traded the #1 pick. Fultz is unquestionably the best talent, but he's a young kid, who hasn't had the chance to be revealed as a real warrior. The very best have a drive that's over and beyond what 99% of people have. Kobe, MJ, LeBron, Bird, Steph Curry, KD, Stockton. How many guys have been as talented, but didn't have that last 1% of borderline irrational competitiveness that made the difference?

    That's why I think the best player in this draft might end up being De'Aaron Fox. That kid absolutely has "it", and he's got the athleticism to go along with it, and will probably develop a decent outside game.

    With Fox we may see another John Wall - Fultz may end up having a nice career, but I haven't seen that drive to get to the summit... yet.

  11. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    What's the basketball equivalent of finishing #23 in the nation? A 2nd round game in the NCAA?
    A cherry-picked data point. None of the first four BCS-era computer rankings I looked up (Sagarin, Massey, Anderson-Hester, Billingsley) had Utah anywhere close to that high in their final rankings, with an average finish of 33. I'll even add your AP poll finish to the mix. Now our average finish is 31st.

    There are (about) 120 teams in FBS. At 31st, that puts Utah (roughly) in the 25th percentile of all teams. There are 340 teams playing Division I hoops. A similar placement there would have Utah about 85th -- smack dab in the middle of the NIT.

  12. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by SoCalPat View Post
    A cherry-picked data point. None of the first four BCS-era computer rankings I looked up (Sagarin, Massey, Anderson-Hester, Billingsley) had Utah anywhere close to that high in their final rankings, with an average finish of 33. I'll even add your AP poll finish to the mix. Now our average finish is 31st.

    There are (about) 120 teams in FBS. At 31st, that puts Utah (roughly) in the 25th percentile of all teams. There are 340 teams playing Division I hoops. A similar placement there would have Utah about 85th -- smack dab in the middle of the NIT.
    Except that you can't lump Utah in with the vast majority of those 340 teams. While being a top 20 basketball team is more difficult that being a top 20 football team given the number of basketball teams, it's certainly not a direct correlation, not even close. How many of those 340 basketball teams have ever cracked the top 25, let alone have a chance of cracking it in 2017? Certainly more, but not that many more than in football.

  13. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scratch View Post
    Except that you can't lump Utah in with the vast majority of those 340 teams. While being a top 20 basketball team is more difficult that being a top 20 football team given the number of basketball teams, it's certainly not a direct correlation, not even close. How many of those 340 basketball teams have ever cracked the top 25, let alone have a chance of cracking it in 2017? Certainly more, but not that many more than in football.
    But we can lump playing in the Foster Farms bowl as an equivalent to a win in a tournament that's much tougher to get into than making a bowl game?

  14. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by SoCalPat View Post
    A cherry-picked data point.
    Sure, but for the past month, you've been going on about Utah underperforming based on one data point.

    Part of what makes college football interesting is that it's too complex and chaotic to draw linear conclusions.

  15. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    Sure, but for the past month, you've been going on about Utah underperforming based on one data point.

    Part of what makes college football interesting is that it's too complex and chaotic to draw linear conclusions.
    9 players taken in the draft is a pretty strong data point, since for years we've been talking about how we needed to build our talent level and depth to compete in the Pac-12.

    Well, we finally get there, and had more of it than we realized, and now we're supposed to be happy with a season that was no better than the previous two, and in some ways, worse?

  16. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by SoCalPat View Post
    Well, we finally get there, and had more of it than we realized, and now we're supposed to be happy with a season that was no better than the previous two, and in some ways, worse?
    You can be happy, or not. Your choice. But you can't logically make the type of conclusion you keep trying to make based on just the one number.

    It takes a special kind of negative to look at our draft this year as evidence of a job poorly done. Only Utah fans...

  17. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    You can be happy, or not. Your choice. But you can't logically make the type of conclusion you keep trying to make based on just the one number.

    It takes a special kind of negative to look at our draft this year as evidence of a job poorly done. Only Utah fans...
    I could say likewise it takes a special kind of Pollyanna to look at last season as a success, unless you think successful is finishing 3rd in a 6-team division.

  18. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by SoCalPat View Post
    unless you think successful is finishing 3rd in a 6-team division.
    I don't think success can be measured uniformly by any singular stat, including standings.

  19. #109
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    The Kyle Kuzma Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    I don't think success can be measured uniformly by any singular stat, including standings.
    What kind of crap is this? The millstone around this program's neck in the Pac-12 era is the lack of an outright South title when every other school in the division has one. We're not even having this discussion in June if we would've won one by now. And you're saying now that success can't be measured by where you finish in the standings?

    It's clear you're still in the "Yay! We're in the Pac-12!" stage of fanhood, where winning anything of consequence is secondary to not getting embarrassed by our opponents and having your feelings hurt by BYU fans. You're just happy to participate. **** that ****.
    Last edited by LA Ute; 06-25-2017 at 03:11 PM.

  20. #110
    Quote Originally Posted by SoCalPat View Post
    What kind of crap is this? The millstone around this program's neck in the Pac-12 era is the lack of an outright South title when every other school in the division has one. We're not even having this discussion in June if we would've won one by now. And you're saying now that success can't be measured by where you finish in the standings?

    It's clear you're still in the "Yay! We're in the Pac-12!" stage of fanhood, where winning anything of consequence is secondary to not getting embarrassed by our opponents and having your feelings hurt by BYU fans. You're just happy to participate. Fuck that shit.
    I don't think this is an accurate characterization of me. Peace out.

  21. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    I don't think this is an accurate characterization of me. Peace out.
    From the guy who characterized me/my POV as a special kind of negative. You're rich ...

  22. #112
    Is there any argument that Utah is a top 25 program historically? Or at least borderline top 25?

    And Larry is the 14th highest paid coach?

    I think we have some pretty clear expectations and those should be higher than football.

  23. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by Utah View Post
    Is there any argument that Utah is a top 25 program historically? Or at least borderline top 25?

    And Larry is the 14th highest paid coach?

    I think we have some pretty clear expectations and those should be higher than football.
    Probably between 20 and 30. I remember a Street & Smith's publication a decade or so ago that had us 11th all-time. A lot has changed since then, obviously, and most of it stuff that wouldn't help our ranking with the criteria used then.

  24. #114
    I don't know if this writer has connections he based his insight on, but he gives Kuzma a lot of credit for dealing with the "my way or the highway" tough Coach K: https://www.pacifictakes.com/utah-ut...couting-report

    I agree with his assessment of Kuzma as a player - length, good vision, passing, etc. Maybe somebody on the board can confirm if Kyle was a "first to arrive, last to leave" kind of worker, but the assessment seems pretty credible, to me.

    The remarks about Coach K being demanding and our player turnover situation not being great are also credible.

    Again, does this guy have sources? Interesting...

  25. #115
    Everything I've heard, Kuzma and K weren't the best of friends, but credit to Kuzma for being tough, working hard and taking advantage of K to get to the NBA.

  26. #116
    Senior Member justaute's Avatar
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    Interesting.

    Just nit-picking here -- it would be nice if the author, or editor, understood the difference between there/their and it's/its. It's a published article, not a text or facebook-posting.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ma'ake View Post
    I don't know if this writer has connections he based his insight on, but he gives Kuzma a lot of credit for dealing with the "my way or the highway" tough Coach K: https://www.pacifictakes.com/utah-ut...couting-report

    I agree with his assessment of Kuzma as a player - length, good vision, passing, etc. Maybe somebody on the board can confirm if Kyle was a "first to arrive, last to leave" kind of worker, but the assessment seems pretty credible, to me.

    The remarks about Coach K being demanding and our player turnover situation not being great are also credible.

    Again, does this guy have sources? Interesting...

  27. #117
    Administrator U-Ute's Avatar
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    I wonder how much impact Larry's focus on an NBA style will help/hurt recruiting. Looking at those videos it becomes more apparent that it helped Kuzma get to the NBA.

  28. #118
    Kuz is getting great reviews at summer league. Wishing him the best!

  29. #119
    31 points tonight for Kuzma. The guy is doing the work.

  30. #120
    Great night for Kuz. Decent debut in the first game, too, with 9 points / 4 rebounds, when Ball played as poorly as I've ever seen him play.

    In retrospect, it's been a remarkable journey for Kuzma, from being a skinny freshman who clearly had less promise than Chapman, to being all PAC-12 (and getting serious kudos from Ivan Rabb, who ended up being drafted behind him), the article to LA Lakers fans about the homework Magic Johnson did on Kuz to justify him being taken in the first round, to a nice start to NBA summer ball.

    (Related to the article, hopefully Coach K and staff are doing similar research on what recruits will be able to weather the old-school coaching approach. It worked great with Kuz, Poeltl, Wright, etc. The recent year transfers were misses, of one kind or another.)

    It's looking like Kuz has a good chance to be a solid contributor in the NBA. Everything in his baskeball journey suggests he'll quietly just keep getting better.

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