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Thread: Utah Utes 2017 football pre-season

  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Utah View Post
    When they go on a mission, they lose a bit.
    I agree with the rest of your post, but this statement is incomplete. Return missionaries are great on the lines because it is easier to add muscle at ages 20-25 than 18-23. I'm always happy to have RMs on the lines. A 25 year old who's been in the weight room for the past 2 years is going to steamroll a lot of opponents. This is a big reason BYU has managed to stay decent as a G5 program.

  2. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    I agree with the rest of your post, but this statement is incomplete. Return missionaries are great on the lines because it is easier to add muscle at ages 20-25 than 18-23. I'm always happy to have RMs on the lines. A 25 year old who's been in the weight room for the past 2 years is going to steamroll a lot of opponents. This is a big reason BYU has managed to stay decent as a G5 program.
    In the MWC, yeah. We ain't in the MWC anymore. In the MWC, Empey is one of our best OL. Not anymore. Now, he's just average.

    I'd rather a big, Brawny, athletic kid over a 24 year old slower, less athletic any day of the week.

    It's an advantage when your recruiting is lacking. A two star 24 year old bumps up to a three star talent.

    But no one takes the older two star over a younger, better player.

    Finally, BYU is relevant for one reason: their schedules suck. That's it.

  3. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Utah View Post
    In the MWC, yeah. We ain't in the MWC anymore. In the MWC, Empey is one of our best OL. Not anymore. Now, he's just average.

    I'd rather a big, Brawny, athletic kid over a 24 year old slower, less athletic any day of the week.

    It's an advantage when your recruiting is lacking. A two star 24 year old bumps up to a three star talent.

    But no one takes the older two star over a younger, better player.

    Finally, BYU is relevant for one reason: their schedules suck. That's it.
    Sure. I'm just saying that - all else being equal - I'll take the older lineman over the younger one. I'm not losing any sleep over Empey or anyone else down in Provo.

  4. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    Sure. I'm just saying that - all else being equal - I'll take the older lineman over the younger one. I'm not losing any sleep over Empey or anyone else down in Provo.
    True. I think we may be saying the same thing. Lol. Good old message boards.

    I'll take the better player, no matter the age.
    If two are equal, I'll take the RM.

  5. #35
    Good for Empey. I'm sure he made the best decision for himself.

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  6. #36
    Assuming he gets to camp this fall, Jav Guidry will be the fastest Ute, ever. Yesterday he cranked out a 10.13 100m in the CIF 100m championship.

    (The 2nd guy got a 10.33. Look at the difference between them.)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZ9Q72ujIaY

    Guidry is 5-9/188 - basically the same build as Brice McCain. It would be a tragedy if this kid doesn't run track for the Utes next spring.

  7. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Ma'ake View Post
    It would be a tragedy if this kid doesn't run track for the Utes next spring.
    Utah doesn't have a track team, me thinks.

  8. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Utah View Post
    Utah doesn't have a track team, me thinks.
    They definitely don't have a full team, but I think there are a few long distance women, and a couple of guys qualified for PAC-12 championship, etc.

    It wouldn't be a Title 9 hit if they let Fulks and Guidry run some sprints. I don't even think those two would need a coach, they've been running track so long they have the technique down. We're talking minimal outlay, no scholarship hit. Kenric Young has some track credentials, but Guidry and Fulks would contend in the PAC. We have an incoming RB, Green (?) who was the Arizona State 110m hurdles champ, which isn't saying a lot in terms of track credentials.

    Just as CU not having a baseball team kind of isolates that school from the rest of the conference, in the spring, not taking advantage of a few seriously talented athletes on the football team, to help build up the credentials of the school (and even the football) team, when the opportunity is there for the taking, is just dumb, IMO.

    5 years ago we were trying to get Kalfani Mohommed (?) who ended up being a pretty good RB at Cal. He also happened to be serious about track, which might have been part of why he went to Cal. (I'm shooting in the dark on this point.)

    Minimal investment - just do it!

  9. #39
    Man, great post and great idea. I love it. I know who I want as our next AD when Hill decides to ride into the sunset.

  10. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Ma'ake View Post
    They definitely don't have a full team, but I think there are a few long distance women, and a couple of guys qualified for PAC-12 championship, etc.

    It wouldn't be a Title 9 hit if they let Fulks and Guidry run some sprints. I don't even think those two would need a coach, they've been running track so long they have the technique down. We're talking minimal outlay, no scholarship hit. Kenric Young has some track credentials, but Guidry and Fulks would contend in the PAC. We have an incoming RB, Green (?) who was the Arizona State 110m hurdles champ, which isn't saying a lot in terms of track credentials.

    Just as CU not having a baseball team kind of isolates that school from the rest of the conference, in the spring, not taking advantage of a few seriously talented athletes on the football team, to help build up the credentials of the school (and even the football) team, when the opportunity is there for the taking, is just dumb, IMO.

    5 years ago we were trying to get Kalfani Mohommed (?) who ended up being a pretty good RB at Cal. He also happened to be serious about track, which might have been part of why he went to Cal. (I'm shooting in the dark on this point.)

    Minimal investment - just do it!
    It isn't the AD who won't fund players to participate in track. Whit will not allow any participation during spring football. The players have from the time spring football ends until the Tuesday after Memorial Day to go home and relax and not have any class or football related activities. This assumes they don't go to the first session of summer semester. To participate in track you would give up your only break in the year. They also have a break from the end of the season/bowl game until the start of Winter semester.

  11. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by UTEopia View Post
    It isn't the AD who won't fund players to participate in track. Whit will not allow any participation during spring football. The players have from the time spring football ends until the Tuesday after Memorial Day to go home and relax and not have any class or football related activities. This assumes they don't go to the first session of summer semester. To participate in track you would give up your only break in the year. They also have a break from the end of the season/bowl game until the start of Winter semester.
    I know Whitt's job is to make football players and the time commitment and scheduling aren't friendly... I'm just saying we're getting guys that can generate buzz for the TV commentators, and that's a serious potential recruiting goldmine. 10.13? He beat the 10.33 kid by about 8 feet. Crazy.

    I can see Guidry having a shot to take the 100m in the PAC-12, and going on to the NCAA nationals. Seeing that kind of performance in a Utah uniform would draw at least 1 or 2 more elite speed kids a year. Fulks may amount to something this year - you never know with these kids - and I thought he scored on the KO at CU late last year. Even if they have hands of stone, those kind of athletes could make a few plays a year that end up in the plus column, on special teams or on defense. Think Cal Beck.

    This year's State of Utah 100m champ ran about a 10.8, is considered quite a stud. Guidry would have smoked him by 7+ yards, easy.

  12. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Ma'ake View Post
    I know Whitt's job is to make football players and the time commitment and scheduling aren't friendly... I'm just saying we're getting guys that can generate buzz for the TV commentators, and that's a serious potential recruiting goldmine. 10.13? He beat the 10.33 kid by about 8 feet. Crazy.

    I can see Guidry having a shot to take the 100m in the PAC-12, and going on to the NCAA nationals. Seeing that kind of performance in a Utah uniform would draw at least 1 or 2 more elite speed kids a year. Fulks may amount to something this year - you never know with these kids - and I thought he scored on the KO at CU late last year. Even if they have hands of stone, those kind of athletes could make a few plays a year that end up in the plus column, on special teams or on defense. Think Cal Beck.

    This year's State of Utah 100m champ ran about a 10.8, is considered quite a stud. Guidry would have smoked him by 7+ yards, easy.
    I'm not disagreeing with you. I'm just saying that I don't think it will happen because spring football is more important to Whit than track and a month off is more important than to 99% of football players than running track.

  13. #43
    Let the games begin!




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  14. #44
    Bernard, Mangum, and Koroma have no business in the top 10. They wouldn't even play for Utah.

  15. #45
    Kaufusi ahead of Luafatasaga? Lol. Wilson and Simpkins are better than any WR's BYU has. Anae is better than any DL BYU has. Hart may be as well.

  16. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Utah View Post
    Bernard, Mangum, and Koroma have no business in the top 10. They wouldn't even play for Utah.
    I don't know about Bernard. He is an LB, right? So he might start at Utah. Mangum would be the starter if he had been at Utah from the beginning and Koroma would start this year. He is a nasty dude.

    I'm actually surprised that Hart and Repp are on the list because I don't see them getting more than 10-12 reps a game unless there are injuries.

  17. #47
    Magnum wouldn't have started over Wilson and wouldn't start over Williams. Versus P5 schools, he is a worse passer than Wilson, Hill and Troy. And Troy played on a torn MCL most of last year as well.

    Missions destroy QB's.

    As far as Bernard, if you combined Utah and BYU, he wouldn't start. Luafatasaga is heads and shoulders the best LB in the state.

    Warner is the next step down. Then a big drop to Pau'u.

    Koroma would not play at Utah. He's good, but there is a reason why he only had 1 or 2 offer s out of high school. He's too small. He would not have played over Dielman or Falemaka. I guess he would have played for us last year when we got down to our fourth string C.

    Talent wise, we are just on a different level than BYU. The last two games have shown that. 35-0 in the first quarter and Utah had 6 TO's and still won.

    We should do a depth chart if the two teams combined. I'd bet BYU only has 2-3 players that start. USU has no one.

  18. #48
    Utah,
    I like your passion but let's not lose all reason. I don't know who'd start where but I'd love Bernard and Pau'u on my team. They fly around and play very physical - seem to be smart as well. I know that Mangum has struggled against good competition but what a terrific arm and I just like the guy. I think he'd be a terrific locker room presence. Koroma may be undersized but let's remember this is still college football. There are undersized players all over the place who become playmakers. Koroma is one of those for BYU and I think he would be for us.

  19. #49
    Handsome Boy Graduate mpfunk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Utah View Post
    Bernard, Mangum, and Koroma have no business in the top 10. They wouldn't even play for Utah.
    All 3 would play for Utah. While I think BYU fans vastly overrate Mangum, I'd take him without hesitation over Troy Williams and I like Williams.

    We lost 4 offensive lineman, we would have a place for a center like Koroma on this year's team.

    I'm not sure what has impressed you about our LBers to think there isn't at the minimum a rotation spot for Bernard.
    So I said to David Eckstein, "You promised me, Eckstein, that if I followed you, you would walk with me always. But I noticed that during the most trying periods of my life, there have only been one set of prints in the sand. Why, when I have needed you most, have you not been there for me?" David Eckstein replied, "Because my little legs had gotten tired, and you were carrying me." And I looked down and saw that I was still carrying David Eckstein.
    --fjm.com

  20. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by mpfunk View Post
    All 3 would play for Utah.
    Yes, but he said start, not just play. It's not clear those three would start for us. They would have a shot, mainly because they play positions that are question marks for us (LB and OL).

    I'm not sure where your Mangum love is coming from. Has he had any memorable performances? He wasn't able to beat out an average whatshisname last season. Maybe he turns into something special, but he sure hasn't shown it yet. Plus, he's a dufus. I'd rather have Williams any day.

    Anyone else feeling the deju vu? When the list came out last season, Utah claimed that none of the Cougars on it were as good as the Utes behind them. We all blew it off as Utah being overconfident. But...he turned out to be right.

  21. #51
    I was feeling pretty good about our top 25 ranked class until I realized that Sitake has been totally kicking our ass since he arrived in Provo. Now I just hope that we can win one against the Cougars every so often.

    And which school has been the biggest loser in the returned missionary game? Its not even close. Not only was Tukuafu previously a Utah commitment, but there are three other former Utes that have switched to BYU in recent months since returning home from their missions: Austin Lee, Khyiris Tonga, and the most recent returnee James Empey.

    RMs that flipped from BYU to Utah? Zero. RMs from Utah that switched to the Y? Three. Win BYU.

    BYU is even welcoming a few walk-ons (Neal Pauu and Austin Kafentzis) that previously had scholarship offers to the U. Chalk one more win up for the Cougars.

    So the tide of the in-state recruiting battle has certainly turned. Players are running from the U to join Sitake and company at the Y. And that mass exodus is bolstering an ever improving class of 2017 and setting BYU up for even better classes in the future.
    http://byuinsider.com/football/byu-f...dus-continues/


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  22. #52
    Handsome Boy Graduate mpfunk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    Yes, but he said start, not just play. It's not clear those three would start for us. They would have a shot, mainly because they play positions that are question marks for us (LB and OL).

    I'm not sure where your Mangum love is coming from. Has he had any memorable performances? He wasn't able to beat out an average whatshisname last season. Maybe he turns into something special, but he sure hasn't shown it yet. Plus, he's a dufus. I'd rather have Williams any day.

    Anyone else feeling the deju vu? When the list came out last season, Utah claimed that none of the Cougars on it were as good as the Utes behind them. We all blew it off as Utah being overconfident. But...he turned out to be right.
    He said they wouldn't play at Utah. He didn't limit it to not l starting.

    I'm not sure where you get that I'm in love with Mangum. I think he is vastly overrated, but he is better than our options.

    Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk
    So I said to David Eckstein, "You promised me, Eckstein, that if I followed you, you would walk with me always. But I noticed that during the most trying periods of my life, there have only been one set of prints in the sand. Why, when I have needed you most, have you not been there for me?" David Eckstein replied, "Because my little legs had gotten tired, and you were carrying me." And I looked down and saw that I was still carrying David Eckstein.
    --fjm.com

  23. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by mpfunk View Post
    He said they wouldn't play at Utah. He didn't limit it to not l starting.

    I'm not sure where you get that I'm in love with Mangum. I think he is vastly overrated, but he is better than our options.
    Oh, I was looking at his 2nd post. You're right. In the first post, he said play.

    You really think that poorly of our quarterbacks? We had a top 25 season last year with Williams. You'd take Mangum over him "without hesitation"?

  24. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    Oh, I was looking at his 2nd post. You're right. In the first post, he said play.

    You really think that poorly of our quarterbacks? We had a top 25 season last year with Williams. You'd take Mangum over him "without hesitation"?
    Our QB's haven't been as bad as some fans like to think they have been.

    I've found that our fans that are overly negative towards our QB's either have a lot of BYU fans or listen to Utah Sports Talk radio.

    Both those sources are idiots. Ignore them.

  25. #55
    And I stand by my statement. If you mixed Utah and BYU's roster, Luafatasaga and Warner would start at LB'er.

    Pau'u, Tauteoli, and Barton would be first off the bench. Thompson would play before Bernard. Bernard wouldn't play for us.

    Magnum has been a worse passer vs P5 than Wilson and Hill and couldn't beat Hill out last year. He wouldn't have seen the field for us either. Ok, maybe when Troy hurt his knee vs USC. Maybe.

    Koroma may have seen the field for us last year instead of Nowakowski, but he wouldn't play for us this fall. He wouldn't have played for us any year prior. We have guys that are just too big and too good.

    Mangum, Koroma and Bernard would not play for Utah.
    Last edited by Utah; 06-07-2017 at 08:54 PM.

  26. #56
    It was interesting to catch some observations on Mangum from Riley Jensen - who I really respect. I know Riley a little and I love the niche he's carved out offering insight into the local college football teams, high school recruiting (due to his involvement in a high school camp,) and, particularly, quarterbacks. Riley gushes over Mangum's arm. In a recent interview he discussed how BYU used Mangum two years ago - sideline outs and a lot of go routes. Jensen remarked they did those because they were safe. His criticism of Mangum was that he wasn't seeing the middle of the field. Jensen says that if Tanner doesn't improve in that space then, big arm or not, good teams/defenses will get the better of him. By the way, think for a moment about sideline out routes being safe for Tanner. Those are tough routes for a lot of quarterbacks because you need an arm to throw it. Riley couldn't say enough about how accurate Mangum was with those routes.

    Anyway, Williams, Huntley and Bateman are our guys. I'm pleased with that. I think we'll see good quarterback play this season. Of the three, Williams seems to have the tools to be very good but he's learning yet another offensive system - two in two years at Utah. Mangum will be in the second year of Ty's offense.

  27. #57
    I think it is safe to assume that at least a few of those guys would play and even start for Utah, because they'd be getting vastly superior coaching for one.
    It only ends once. Anything that happens before that is just progress.

    Well, because he thought it was good sport. Because some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.

  28. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by DrumNFeather View Post
    I think it is safe to assume that at least a few of those guys would play and even start for Utah, because they'd be getting vastly superior coaching for one.
    If we are going to do that, we'd have to assume that Utah would even want them in the first place. Koroma wasn't offered by Utah coming out of high school. Bernard's only other offer was from Utah State.

    Those two just aren't good enough. If they had walked on at Utah, they'd probably never gotten off the scout team because Utah has better players at their disposal to work with.

    Now, Mangum is a different story. Utah wanted Mangum. Coming out of high school, he was a great QB. But missions do something to QB's. The only QB I can think of that served a full two years and was highly successful was John Beck...and even he was a bust until his senior season. Then, you add in how badly Whitt wants his QB to run...Mangum would have competed at Utah, but I don't think he beats out a running QB, especially when the running QB's are better throwers at this point (Wilson and Hill).

  29. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Utah View Post
    Now, Mangum is a different story. Utah wanted Mangum. Coming out of high school, he was a great QB. But missions do something to QB's. The only QB I can think of that served a full two years and was highly successful was John Beck...and even he was a bust until his senior season. Then, you add in how badly Whitt wants his QB to run...Mangum would have competed at Utah, but I don't think he beats out a running QB, especially when the running QB's are better throwers at this point (Wilson and Hill).
    I have read many times--you probably havd too--that Mangum could not beat out Hill last year becasue he could not learn Detmer's offense and Detmer couldnt trust him. It is a relatively straightforward offense, and Hill picked it up immediately. Zadock Dinkelman said it is the same offense with the same terminology that his high school runs (not surprising, since he is Detmer's nephew.) We will see if an extra year changes that.


    p.s. re coaching--I dont now how anybody can say that a qb would have gotten better coaching at utah given our OC carousel. If that were true, we would not have gone to Troy Taylor. And Tuiaki and Sitake havent become worse coaches since they left Utah.

  30. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by concerned View Post
    Zadock Dinkelman
    Is this a real name?

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