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Thread: Shooting for 7 Straight: Utes go to Provo, 2017

  1. #181
    Ha ha. BYU never smelled the Big 12. What is concerned smoking. They'd have gone dragging their tongues to the Big 12, had they gotten an offer. BYU's paradox is that it craves secular approval as much as it clings to its atavistic distinctness.

    All university communities are the same, whether in Palo Alto, Austin, or Lawrence. BYU was unacceptable to the Big 12 for the same reasons as the PAC never considered it. BYU is homophobic and anti-fundamental university values. Remember my prior post, when I noted that Utah's DI budget is 2 percent of the total university wide budget. The Big 12 is embarrased about Baylor. They don't want to double that. I've been saying this same thing forever.

    During the last round of Big 12 flirtation with expansion, I repeated the foregoing to Cougar Stadium until my old friends hated me. But I was just telling the truth. I was just being honest. When Big 12 administrators told the Commissioner that BYU was out of the question, the talk of expansion ended.
    Last edited by SeattleUte; 09-08-2017 at 12:24 AM.
    One thing I have learned in a long life: that all our science, measured against reality, is primitive and childlike -- and yet it is the most precious thing we have.

    --Albert Einstein

    The fact that life evolved out of nearly nothing, some 10 billion years after the universe evolved out of literally nothing, is a fact so staggering that I would be mad to attempt words to do it justice.

    --Richard Dawkins

    Be kind to all, for everyone you meet is fighting a great battle.

    --Philo

  2. #182
    Quote Originally Posted by UTEopia View Post
    It did not seem that significant at the time, but in hindsight it was a significant game changer. It gave Utah a solid coach who wanted to stay at Utah and build something. The PAC 12 certainly put Utah over the top. I would say that hiring/firing Mac and catching lightning in a bottle with Urban were also critical events.
    True, but don't leave out University of Utah research scientists' monumental discovery of the BRCA1 gene, which helped ensure we could demonstrate research chops worthy of the Pac 12.
    One thing I have learned in a long life: that all our science, measured against reality, is primitive and childlike -- and yet it is the most precious thing we have.

    --Albert Einstein

    The fact that life evolved out of nearly nothing, some 10 billion years after the universe evolved out of literally nothing, is a fact so staggering that I would be mad to attempt words to do it justice.

    --Richard Dawkins

    Be kind to all, for everyone you meet is fighting a great battle.

    --Philo

  3. #183
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Just for fun, all the Ute takeaways from BYU in the 2011 game.


    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  4. #184
    Quote Originally Posted by SeattleUte View Post
    BYU's paradox is that it craves secular approval as much as it clings to its atavistic distinctness.
    How true is that? Stunning take.

  5. #185
    Quote Originally Posted by SeattleUte View Post
    Ha ha. BYU never smelled the Big 12. What is concerned smoking.

    Coming from the guy who doesn't know Shyne from shinola. The first round, the Y not only smelled but tasted membership. If they hadnt balked at the crucial time, and become too big of a pain in the butt, they could have locked it up. I never said they were invited; invitations never come until the deal is done, as we all know.
    Last edited by concerned; 09-08-2017 at 08:12 AM.

  6. #186
    Quote Originally Posted by Utah View Post
    How true is that? Stunning take.
    It is a banality

  7. #187
    Senior Member Scorcho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    Nah. I'm a mere observer of the Human Condition. Don't you need to say something about TV?
    I'll say something about TV. On Saturday Night, Pullman vs. Boise is on ESPN's mother ship while the East Bench of SLC vs. the rest of the World (and a star near Kolob) is relegated to the Deuce. I wish we were the new Wazzu or played an opponent like Boise with a national audience?


  8. #188
    Quote Originally Posted by concerned View Post
    It is a banality
    This is a fitting expression, as the implementation of the Honor Code represents on some low level a modern example of the banality of evil. And it is enforced through a similarly unexceptionable bureaucratic stupidity.

  9. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by Utebiquitous View Post
    I've enjoyed reading so many memories of wins and losses today. I don't have anything new to say. I'll add voice and memory to 1978 and 1988. In '78 my grandfather had to take an adult instead of his favorite buddy for the game, me (at least that's what he told me). I listened on the radio at home. When Gomez threw the game-winner I ran outside with a metal spoon and big pot. I ran up and down the street yelling Utes win as I pounded the pot. Ten years later, I was sitting in the first few rows of the student section cheering for Scott Mitchell and crew. I've never felt more elation in a win than that day. One play particularly stands out. Someone hit Covey so hard it looked like he went threw him (was it Filipo's Dad?).

    Let me finish with a question for the board. For those of us that witnessed the many blowouts of the 70s and 80s at the hands of BYU, I wonder why we aren't stacking a few more of them up in the 2000s? Yes 54-10 happened, but there have been a number of years when I think we should simply lay it on them and we haven't. This year is another such year. I mean no disrespect. I think the talent level is significantly weighted our direction. Our offensive inconsistency seems to be an obvious reason but what other reasons are there? These last few seasons I've expected blowout wins but the narrow, nail-biting wins continue. A lot of credit goes to BYU players and coaches. I hate saying that.
    It's why 2015, IMO, ended on a sour note. The second half should've been a victory lap. Instead, we needed to grind out a couple of first downs late to prevent BYU from getting the ball back with a chance to tie. Against any other team, such a result would've been a little more palatable. But we had a chance to really put the screws to BYU and we failed.

  10. #190
    Quote Originally Posted by SoCalPat View Post
    It's why 2015, IMO, ended on a sour note. The second half should've been a victory lap. Instead, we needed to grind out a couple of first downs late to prevent BYU from getting the ball back with a chance to tie. Against any other team, such a result would've been a little more palatable. But we had a chance to really put the screws to BYU and we failed.
    In fairness, we were so hobbled by the second half in that game, we were lucky to get a few first downs. No Covey for most of the game, Scott on one good leg, no Booker (IIRC?), and wasn't Travis hobbling too (IIRC?). Travis and Joe Williams runs were almost the entire offense (again, IIRC).

  11. #191
    Quote Originally Posted by concerned View Post
    The first round, the Y not only smelled but tasted membership. If they hadnt balked at the crucial time, and become too big of a pain in the butt, they could have locked it up. I never said they were invited; invitations never come until the deal is done, as we all know.
    I know a lot of fans who believe this, but I've never seen anything close to evidence. I think it is rumor that took legs and became a full-blown legend.

  12. #192
    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    I know a lot of fans who believe this, but I've never seen anything close to evidence. I think it is rumor that took legs and became a full-blown legend.
    sorry, but there is evidence.

  13. #193
    Quote Originally Posted by concerned View Post
    sorry, but there is evidence.
    Sock it to me, then. I've never seen it.

  14. #194
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    Quote Originally Posted by tooblue View Post
    "Roles have been reversed: It’s now Ute supporters who have the superiority complex as once-haughty Cougar backers recede into shadows"

    http://www.sltrib.com/sports/utah-ut...ssed-with-byu/
    Monson just took a 9-iron on a 150-yard par 3 and stuck it to within 3 feet. It's the most truthful column he's ever written. Those that disagree are probably the ones Monson's writing about, the 10 percent who lose their shit in spectacular fashion whenever they're not having wind blown up their skirt.

    That said, I know those fans exist, and their true colors come up, not during rivalry week, but in April and May. They're pretty easy to identify, and I've largely stopped trying to reason with them.

  15. #195
    tooblue:

    can you help help this fellow cougar out?
    http://www.cougarboard.com/board/mes...ml?id=18393584
    "Don't apologize; it's not your fault. It's my fault for overestimating your competence."

  16. #196
    Quote Originally Posted by SoCalPat View Post
    Monson just took a 9-iron on a 150-yard par 3 and stuck it to within 3 feet. It's the most truthful column he's ever written. Those that disagree are probably the ones Monson's writing about, the 10 percent who lose their shit in spectacular fashion whenever they're not having wind blown up their skirt.

    That said, I know those fans exist, and their true colors come up, not during rivalry week, but in April and May. They're pretty easy to identify, and I've largely stopped trying to reason with them.
    Of course he's right, but it was hardly a tough shot. Good teams always have more fans, more bandwagon fans, more ignorant fans, and more superiority complex. The article has been true for 100 years and applies to 100 different rivalries.

    The craziest individual fan behavior in years came from an Alabama fan who poisoned the trees of his rival. When Boston won the world series, Red Sox fans fit Monson's description to a tee.

    That type of fan doesn't stick with a bad team for long.

  17. #197
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    Quote Originally Posted by concerned View Post
    In fairness, we were so hobbled by the second half in that game, we were lucky to get a few first downs. No Covey for most of the game, Scott on one good leg, no Booker (IIRC?), and wasn't Travis hobbling too (IIRC?). Travis and Joe Williams runs were almost the entire offense (again, IIRC).
    That doesn't excuse four straight 3-and-outs once we were up 35-0, or being stopped twice on fourth down, or failing to reach the red zone.

  18. #198
    Quote Originally Posted by SoCalPat View Post
    Monson just took a 9-iron on a 150-yard par 3 and stuck it to within 3 feet. It's the most truthful column he's ever written. Those that disagree are probably the ones Monson's writing about, the 10 percent who lose their shit in spectacular fashion whenever they're not having wind blown up their skirt.

    That said, I know those fans exist, and their true colors come up, not during rivalry week, but in April and May. They're pretty easy to identify, and I've largely stopped trying to reason with them.
    Maybe I am one of those fans as the rivalry games have lost a lot of their meaning. I am not opposed to playing BYU on a regular basis, but I would like to see the Utes really effort playing other quality schools in the OOC. If that belief makes me a fan with a superiority complex, I guess I am happy to have it.

  19. #199
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Utah View Post
    How true is that? Stunning take.
    He stole it from me and embellished it.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  20. #200
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    Quote Originally Posted by UTEopia View Post
    Maybe I am one of those fans as the rivalry games have lost a lot of their meaning. I am not opposed to playing BYU on a regular basis, but I would like to see the Utes really effort playing other quality schools in the OOC. If that belief makes me a fan with a superiority complex, I guess I am happy to have it.
    You're nowhere close to having one with that mindset. I would say a huge majority of Ute fans feel the same way -- there's value in playing BYU most years, we could easily do worse than to schedule BYU most years, but we need more than a single bone (Michigan) in the non-con over a 10-15 year period.

  21. #201
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Shooting for 7 Straight: Utes go to Provo, 2017

    Quote Originally Posted by UTEopia View Post
    Maybe I am one of those fans as the rivalry games have lost a lot of their meaning. I am not opposed to playing BYU on a regular basis, but I would like to see the Utes really effort playing other quality schools in the OOC. If that belief makes me a fan with a superiority complex, I guess I am happy to have it.
    The fact is, we're never going to be able to drop the annual BYU game as long as BYU can field a competitive team. The state legislature and others in state government won't allow it. A disgusting fact but the reality, I'm afraid. I'm one who likes the rivalry game but hates the pressure that the government exerts in order to protect a church school's athletic program.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  22. #202
    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    Sock it to me, then. I've never seen it.
    He won't hit you with a feather. There is absolutely no evidence. This is a classic form of banal BYU fan urban legend. The Big 12 doesn't want BYU and never has. BYU needs to be happy living in its own skin (to use a banal but appropriate turn of phrase).
    One thing I have learned in a long life: that all our science, measured against reality, is primitive and childlike -- and yet it is the most precious thing we have.

    --Albert Einstein

    The fact that life evolved out of nearly nothing, some 10 billion years after the universe evolved out of literally nothing, is a fact so staggering that I would be mad to attempt words to do it justice.

    --Richard Dawkins

    Be kind to all, for everyone you meet is fighting a great battle.

    --Philo

  23. #203
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    The current Utah fan euphoria can be pretty silly, but it is not even in the same galaxy as the level of braggadocio, self-adulation, and over-the-top nonsense that we endured in BYU's so-called glory years. For Monson to say the two sides have switched places is just ridiculous.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  24. #204
    Quote Originally Posted by SeattleUte View Post
    He won't hit you with a feather. There is absolutely no evidence. This is a classic form of banal BYU fan urban legend. The Big 12 doesn't want BYU and never has. BYU needs to be happy living in its own skin (to use a banal but appropriate turn of phrase).
    Boy you can be a blowhard when you want to. I don't care whether you guys believe it or not. I am about 100% sure that what I posted is correct. I didn't post it to debate you; you picked the fight.

  25. #205
    There has been no reformed Egyptian, there has been no Big 12 offer to BYU.

    Whenever one discusses BYU, it's impossible to avoid banalities. Because that is what BYU is, banal.
    One thing I have learned in a long life: that all our science, measured against reality, is primitive and childlike -- and yet it is the most precious thing we have.

    --Albert Einstein

    The fact that life evolved out of nearly nothing, some 10 billion years after the universe evolved out of literally nothing, is a fact so staggering that I would be mad to attempt words to do it justice.

    --Richard Dawkins

    Be kind to all, for everyone you meet is fighting a great battle.

    --Philo

  26. #206
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    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    The current Utah fan euphoria can be pretty silly, but it is not even in the same galaxy as the level of braggadocio, self-adulation, and over-the-top nonsense that we endured in BYU's so-called glory years. For Monson to say the two sides have switched places is just ridiculous.
    Brah, we didn't have the internet or Twitter back in 1984. I was deep in the rivalry when Utah was getting the worst of it. It sucks far more today to be a BYU fan than it did to be a Utah fan back then.

  27. #207
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    The fact is, we're never going to be able to drop the annual BYU game as long as BYU can field a competitive team. The state legislature and others in state government won't allow it. A disgusting fact but the reality, I'm afraid. I'm one who likes the rivalry game but hates the pressure that the government exerts in order to protect a church school's athletic program.
    When BYU went Indy, we had two options for hurting them:

    1. High risk, high reward: play them and beat them, demonstrating separation
    2. Low risk, medium reward: not play them and watch them struggle to schedule a decent replacement

    Route 1 has worked out for us so far.

    I'm fine with leaving them off whenever we can get a Michigan caliber replacement. Otherwise, a war is not over until the opponent surrenders.

  28. #208
    So a somewhat interesting outlook on the rivalry game with some actual numbers to back it up:

    Since joining the PAC 12 there has been a faction of fans who have tried to pretend that the BYU game is no longer important to them. I've always thought it was BS, and it largely is. However, armed with traffic stats for UFN since 2005 I went and looked at when the traffic has peaked there from Aug 1 - Feb 1 of a respective season. Traffic in conjunction with the BYU football game is always high, and up until 2013 was definitively the highest peak day (other outliers of course were the Sugar Bowl and the PAC-12 invite which dwarfed all traffic).

    But after 2013 (Our game with them was on Sep 21 and we didn't play them again until the bowl game Dec 15 2015) other big PAC-12 games have come to outpace ever so slightly (by about 2%) the BYU game as far as traffic to the site goes. It is notable because you could typically visually see when the BYU game was and the days leading up to it because there was a clear peak. That is no more.

    No doubt, the BYU game is huge in the minds of the fans, but I would say it is no longer THE game of the year, which I'll be honest surprised me.

    But the same, and going strictly by the numbers, fans who claim that this game doesn't matter any more are being delusional.

  29. #209
    Quote Originally Posted by Rocker Ute View Post
    No doubt, the BYU game is huge in the minds of the fans, but I would say it is no longer THE game of the year, which I'll be honest surprised me.

    But the same, and going strictly by the numbers, fans who claim that this game doesn't matter any more are being delusional.
    I agree. I am not surprised because this reflects my own experience. My football daydreams used to involve beating BYU far more than any other school. Now, even during this week, I've spent some time looking ahead to Stanford and USC.

  30. #210
    Senior Member Scorcho's Avatar
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    I hate rivalry jokes there usually pretty lame on either side, but there is one that I find funny:

    what did the byu coed do when someone brought beer to the party? she put her shirt back on and went home

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