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Thread: Shooting for 7 Straight: Utes go to Provo, 2017

  1. #211
    Senior Member Scorcho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocker Ute View Post
    So a somewhat interesting outlook on the rivalry game with some actual numbers to back it up:

    Since joining the PAC 12 there has been a faction of fans who have tried to pretend that the BYU game is no longer important to them. I've always thought it was BS, and it largely is. However, armed with traffic stats for UFN since 2005 I went and looked at when the traffic has peaked there from Aug 1 - Feb 1 of a respective season. Traffic in conjunction with the BYU football game is always high, and up until 2013 was definitively the highest peak day (other outliers of course were the Sugar Bowl and the PAC-12 invite which dwarfed all traffic).

    But after 2013 (Our game with them was on Sep 21 and we didn't play them again until the bowl game Dec 15 2015) other big PAC-12 games have come to outpace ever so slightly (by about 2%) the BYU game as far as traffic to the site goes. It is notable because you could typically visually see when the BYU game was and the days leading up to it because there was a clear peak. That is no more.

    No doubt, the BYU game is huge in the minds of the fans, but I would say it is no longer THE game of the year, which I'll be honest surprised me.

    But the same, and going strictly by the numbers, fans who claim that this game doesn't matter any more are being delusional.
    couldn't a good percentage of the increased traffic be Y fans? I know I have snuck a peek at Cougarboard a few times this week. Something I rarely do.

  2. #212
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SoCalPat View Post
    Brah, we didn't have the internet or Twitter back in 1984. I was deep in the rivalry when Utah was getting the worst of it. It sucks far more today to be a BYU fan than it did to be a Utah fan back then.
    That hasn't been my experience at all, not even close, but we can agree to disagree. I still think there is no comparison.
    Last edited by LA Ute; 09-08-2017 at 12:53 PM.

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  3. #213
    Quote Originally Posted by Scorcho View Post
    couldn't a good percentage of the increased traffic be Y fans? I know I have snuck a peek at Cougarboard a few times this week. Something I rarely do.
    That's a good point. I could look at returning users to get a better assessment although it has it flaws too. Many Utah fans (my father being an example of this) also only visit UFN on important games. Then he asks me why I am involved in that site. It is good to know you can continue to disappoint your parents well into adulthood.

  4. #214
    Administrator U-Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SeattleUte View Post
    There has been no reformed Egyptian, there has been no Big 12 offer to BYU.

    Whenever one discusses BYU, it's impossible to avoid banalities. Because that is what BYU is, banal.
    I believe you both are speaking truth in your own ways.

    I believe there was interest on both sides and they both came to the negotiation table, but that there were specific terms they couldn't agree on, so there was no official legal offer. My guess is the biggest sticking points included sunday play and TV rights for BYUTv

  5. #215
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    Quote Originally Posted by SoCalPat View Post
    Brah, we didn't have the internet or Twitter back in 1984. I was deep in the rivalry when Utah was getting the worst of it. It sucks far more today to be a BYU fan than it did to be a Utah fan back then.
    Hey now. Maybe no Twitter, but rec.sports.college.football on Usenet had plenty of banter, and it was distributed via the Internet.

  6. #216
    Malleus Cougarorum Solon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    I agree. I am not surprised because this reflects my own experience. My football daydreams used to involve beating BYU far more than any other school. Now, even during this week, I've spent some time looking ahead to Stanford and USC.
    I wonder if it would be different if the game were late in the season like it used to be. We really don't know what either of these teams is about quite yet. Plus, I too am looking ahead to Stanford. Don't get me wrong - I want to see a win on Saturday - but a loss wouldn't really phase me.

    This is why I think it's a dangerous game for the utes. A win will mean more to the byu than it will to the U. The stakes are unequal.
    σοφῷ ἀνδρὶ Ἑλλὰς πάντα.
    -- Flavius Philostratus, Life of Apollonius 1.35.2.

  7. #217
    Quote Originally Posted by U-Ute View Post
    I believe there was interest on both sides and they both came to the negotiation table, but that there were specific terms they couldn't agree on, so there was no official legal offer. My guess is the biggest sticking points included sunday play and TV rights for BYUTv
    I don't think it ever got that far. There may have been some phone calls as the Big12 did their due diligence, but the Big12 was looking for teams that (1) had had recent success (like, top 10 finishes) and (2) were reasonable geographically. BYU never had a chance to shoot themselves in the foot as they were never under serious consideration. Maybe BYU started making preemptive demands to save face, but those demands are not what kept BYU out. The Big12 just wanted WVU and TCU more.

    BYU was actually much closer last year when the Big12 was thinking expansion.

  8. #218
    Administrator U-Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    BYU was actually much closer last year when the Big12 was thinking expansion.
    This is the time frame I'm thinking about.

  9. #219
    Quote Originally Posted by Rocker Ute View Post
    So a somewhat interesting outlook on the rivalry game with some actual numbers to back it up:

    Since joining the PAC 12 there has been a faction of fans who have tried to pretend that the BYU game is no longer important to them. I've always thought it was BS, and it largely is. However, armed with traffic stats for UFN since 2005 I went and looked at when the traffic has peaked there from Aug 1 - Feb 1 of a respective season. Traffic in conjunction with the BYU football game is always high, and up until 2013 was definitively the highest peak day (other outliers of course were the Sugar Bowl and the PAC-12 invite which dwarfed all traffic).

    But after 2013 (Our game with them was on Sep 21 and we didn't play them again until the bowl game Dec 15 2015) other big PAC-12 games have come to outpace ever so slightly (by about 2%) the BYU game as far as traffic to the site goes. It is notable because you could typically visually see when the BYU game was and the days leading up to it because there was a clear peak. That is no more.

    No doubt, the BYU game is huge in the minds of the fans, but I would say it is no longer THE game of the year, which I'll be honest surprised me.

    But the same, and going strictly by the numbers, fans who claim that this game doesn't matter any more are being delusional.
    Outstanding post, bolstered by data.

    There is some portion of Ute fans at the periphery - eg, "who's our RB this year?" If the answer isn't immediate, they're peripheral fans - for whom rooting for the Utes is a social statement, in the context of the state and dominant demographic, "us and them", etc.

    At the same time, the PAC membership has impressively altered our identity, for the positive... completely irrespective of BYU.

    My "goals" for tomorrow: 1) Win, 2) get the youngsters fully engaged on what an intense road atmosphere is like, 3) minimize the injuries, 4) minimize the friction, 5) turn the page.
    Last edited by Ma'ake; 09-08-2017 at 12:53 PM.

  10. #220
    I was a "I don't care about the rivalry game" guy.

    I could have cared less if we ever played them again.

    The break happened and I was glad.

    But, when it was announced we were playing them in the Vegas Bowl I became excited. I realized that I missed the game.

    I still think the obvious compromise is the 3 times in 5 years I've talked about before.

    I'm ok with breaks to play better brands.

    But I don't want it to go away completely. It's a fun game.

  11. #221


    Last year some friends decorated my office with BYU stuff (all in good fun). This year this was their attempt (they put a small amount of blue and white hole punches on a piece of paper and left it on my desk if you can't tell).


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  12. #222
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    Quote Originally Posted by Utah View Post
    I was a "I don't care about the rivalry game" guy.

    I could have cared less if we ever played them again.

    The break happened and I was glad.

    But, when it was announced we were playing them in the Vegas Bowl I became excited. I realized that I missed the game.

    I still think the obvious compromise is the 3 times in 5 years I've talked about before.

    I'm ok with breaks to play better brands.

    But I don't want it to go away completely. It's a fun game.
    The loyalty or skin of any fan who ultimately doesn't believe this should be questioned.

    I'll say it again: A large majority of Utah fans are perfectly OK with 6/10, with a potential bowl tie-in in the other 4 (maximum of one game), if we're playing average-and-above P5s in the 4 years we don't play BYU in the regular season. The question we gotta ask ourselves now, is playing Baylor worthy of taking a break from BYU? Not gonna lie here -- there are only two teams that would be more meh in the Big 12 (Iowa State, Kansas), and we've played both of them in the adult lives of at least half of our fanbase.

    I'll also maintain that our non-con scheduling will be largely meh until the stadium expands. Don't use Michigan as something that can happen frequently -- that's a generational non-conference series. But my ideal/realistic H-H partner from each of the major conferences would be Iowa (Big 10), Kansas State or Oklahoma State (Big 12), Ole Miss (SEC) and North Carolina State (ACC).

  13. #223
    Quote Originally Posted by SoCalPat View Post
    The loyalty or skin of any fan who ultimately doesn't believe this should be questioned.

    I'll say it again: A large majority of Utah fans are perfectly OK with 6/10, with a potential bowl tie-in in the other 4 (maximum of one game), if we're playing average-and-above P5s in the 4 years we don't play BYU in the regular season. The question we gotta ask ourselves now, is playing Baylor worthy of taking a break from BYU? Not gonna lie here -- there are only two teams that would be more meh in the Big 12 (Iowa State, Kansas), and we've played both of them in the adult lives of at least half of our fanbase.

    I'll also maintain that our non-con scheduling will be largely meh until the stadium expands. Don't use Michigan as something that can happen frequently -- that's a generational non-conference series. But my ideal/realistic H-H partner from each of the major conferences would be Iowa (Big 10), Kansas State or Oklahoma State (Big 12), Ole Miss (SEC) and North Carolina State (ACC).
    Good post. We can have nice things: BYU AND another P5 opponent. I know there are people that will say "but what if we're not bowl eligible?", or "too hard", or "consider the children", but what good is a football team that doesn't play (and sometimes beat) the big boys?

  14. #224
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    Quote Originally Posted by Applejack View Post
    Good post. We can have nice things: BYU AND another P5 opponent. I know there are people that will say "but what if we're not bowl eligible?", or "too hard", or "consider the children", but what good is a football team that doesn't play (and sometimes beat) the big boys?
    There are fans out there who wouldn't take a spot in the playoff in any season if it meant a losing season (or two) surrounding it. Those people (and you've cited them) don't deserve to be taken seriously.

  15. #225
    McBride just said Pease mooned BYU fans as a player. Lol.

  16. #226
    That's really interesting info, Rocker. I have a contrasting take for comparison. As I've mentioned here before, I'm one of essentially two admins for the UteNation Facebook page. I think the Facebook group represents a different kid be of fan than uf.n. At 7,600 members, we "benefit" from the ease and convenience of living in the FB world. In a given game week, we'll have maybe 25 different members actively engage in discussion about the game. This number tends to decrease through the season. During this week, we've added probably 150 new members and have see posts from people that have never posted before and likely won't again once the game is over. So probably a much different trend line than what you pick up at uf.n. I hate to give them more credit than they deserve, but the uf.n probably represents a more informed and committed fan. The FB member aligns more closely with the "I'm a Mormon in South Carolina so of course I have a BYU shirt" level of fan. These are the fans that Monson was talking about. They don't really follow the program too much but when we're playing BYU, they suddenly feel vested to state their uninformed opinions about the state of the two programs. My data is obviously much more qualitative, but I thought I contribute it anyway.


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  17. #227
    Quote Originally Posted by concerned View Post
    In fairness, we were so hobbled by the second half in that game, we were lucky to get a few first downs. No Covey for most of the game, Scott on one good leg, no Booker (IIRC?), and wasn't Travis hobbling too (IIRC?). Travis and Joe Williams runs were almost the entire offense (again, IIRC).
    Travis, Williams and Hackett runs were our only offense. I still take the blame for this. I'm sorry.


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  18. #228
    Quote Originally Posted by Dwight Schr-Ute View Post
    Travis, Williams and Hackett runs were our only offense. I still take the blame for this. I'm sorry.


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    Good lord. We won over our rival, for the 5th straight time, on a neutral field, while leading wire to wire (nearly literally), and were never in a position to lose! You'd think that we lost the game by the way U fans talk about it.

    Get over them almost-keeping-it respectable.
    Last edited by Applejack; 09-08-2017 at 03:06 PM.

  19. #229
    Quote Originally Posted by Dwight Schr-Ute View Post
    That's really interesting info, Rocker. I have a contrasting take for comparison. As I've mentioned here before, I'm one of essentially two admins for the UteNation Facebook page. I think the Facebook group represents a different kid be of fan than uf.n. At 7,600 members, we "benefit" from the ease and convenience of living in the FB world. In a given game week, we'll have maybe 25 different members actively engage in discussion about the game. This number tends to decrease through the season. During this week, we've added probably 150 new members and have see posts from people that have never posted before and likely won't again once the game is over. So probably a much different trend line than what you pick up at uf.n. I hate to give them more credit than they deserve, but the uf.n probably represents a more informed and committed fan. The FB member aligns more closely with the "I'm a Mormon in South Carolina so of course I have a BYU shirt" level of fan. These are the fans that Monson was talking about. They don't really follow the program too much but when we're playing BYU, they suddenly feel vested to state their uninformed opinions about the state of the two programs. My data is obviously much more qualitative, but I thought I contribute it anyway.


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    Yeah, I don't know if I'd call us at UFN informed but perhaps more passionate than the average fan.

    I think our respective data correlates actually, because there is definitely an uptick in traffic for BYU games. What I am seeing though is that there is now also an uptick for traffic for the big games like USC, Oregon, Stanford etc. Another consideration that you may not be able to see in your numbers is lurkers like me on Utenation who read the posts as they come in my feed but don't post or typically go directly to your page. My traffic information I looked at is just anyone who went to the site, whether they posted or not.

  20. #230
    I am one who cares much less about this rivalry than I used to. I just don't have the same hate. Where have you gone, Nate Cooper?

    I am also all for never playing these bastards again, simply because I want them to be irrelevant, and the rivalry gives them relevance. "But if you want them to be irrelevant, just beat them!," the super enlightened among us say. Beating them isn't as effective as ignoring them. If we want them to be irrelevant, we should treat them as irrelevant. I want them to be irrelevant. They have so little to play for, really. Why give them anything?

    That said, this one didn't seem like too big a deal during the summer, but it feels a little different now. They are desperate. They are staring into the abyss. All this Kalani-Detmer stuff reawoke the spirit of the Zoob. They were pretty hopeless near the end of Captain Bronconi's reign. The all-in throwback to the glory days gave them life, but, even after just two weeks, many of them are already rediscovering the BYU's true place in the pecking order. If Utah can lay it on them, like it seems like they should, this game could cement what most observers already think regarding the place of BYU in the universe. It would expose the resurrection of the glory days as a total marketing win with zero substance.

    The BYU is never going away. They will beat Utah again sometime. But if Utah can give them the ass Kicking of a lifetime tomorrow, I really think it takes all of the false momentum away from them, and the reality begins to match the perception even for those in whom the spirit of the Zoob is strongest. It would last a long time.. It's time to sweep the leg.

    Sadly, though, I don't think its gonna hapoen. I have rarely felt so confident of a Ute victory in this game. It feels wrong. That makes me think they are gonna lose. True Ute, over here.

  21. #231
    Quote Originally Posted by Applejack View Post
    Good lord. We won over our rival, for the 5th straight time, on a neutral field, while leading wire to wire (nearly literally), and were never in a position to lose! You'd think that we lost the game by the way U fans talk about it.

    Get over them almost-keeping-it respectable.
    I was just saying that we sat in our seats the moment Travis scampered for 25 yards to go up 35-0. I thought for sure that this was the perfect day to break my curse of poor offensive production while I was sitting in the stands. According to ESPN, we had 142 yards and 0 points from that point on.


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  22. #232
    Administrator U-Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Senioritis View Post
    Sadly, though, I don't think its gonna hapoen. I have rarely felt so confident of a Ute victory in this game. It feels wrong. That makes me think they are gonna lose. True Ute, over here.
    Only for those who lived through the McBride era. These new fans who suddenly became enlightened with the flash and bravado of the Urban Meyer days don't know what it's like to feel this way.

  23. #233
    Quote Originally Posted by U-Ute View Post
    Only for those who lived through the McBride era. These new fans who suddenly became enlightened with the flash and bravado of the Urban Meyer days don't know what it's like to feel this way.
    I have felt nervous about every game against BYU; probably always will.
    "Don't apologize; it's not your fault. It's my fault for overestimating your competence."

  24. #234
    Malleus Cougarorum Solon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Senioritis View Post
    I am one who cares much less about this rivalry than I used to. I just don't have the same hate. Where have you gone, Nate Cooper?

    I am also all for never playing these bastards again, simply because I want them to be irrelevant, and the rivalry gives them relevance. "But if you want them to be irrelevant, just beat them!," the super enlightened among us say. Beating them isn't as effective as ignoring them. If we want them to be irrelevant, we should treat them as irrelevant. I want them to be irrelevant. They have so little to play for, really. Why give them anything?

    That said, this one didn't seem like too big a deal during the summer, but it feels a little different now. They are desperate. They are staring into the abyss. All this Kalani-Detmer stuff reawoke the spirit of the Zoob. They were pretty hopeless near the end of Captain Bronconi's reign. The all-in throwback to the glory days gave them life, but, even after just two weeks, many of them are already rediscovering the BYU's true place in the pecking order. If Utah can lay it on them, like it seems like they should, this game could cement what most observers already think regarding the place of BYU in the universe. It would expose the resurrection of the glory days as a total marketing win with zero substance.

    The BYU is never going away. They will beat Utah again sometime. But if Utah can give them the ass Kicking of a lifetime tomorrow, I really think it takes all of the false momentum away from them, and the reality begins to match the perception even for those in whom the spirit of the Zoob is strongest. It would last a long time.. It's time to sweep the leg.

    Sadly, though, I don't think its gonna hapoen. I have rarely felt so confident of a Ute victory in this game. It feels wrong. That makes me think they are gonna lose. True Ute, over here.

    I can't imagine a medieval hermit-monk living in the desert eating termites and rainwater for 83 years would be less happy with the return of Jesus than I am at the return of Senioritis.
    σοφῷ ἀνδρὶ Ἑλλὰς πάντα.
    -- Flavius Philostratus, Life of Apollonius 1.35.2.

  25. #235
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    On a cautious note, we are all fooling ourselves if we are not just a little nervous about what the oddsmakers in Vegas know or understand that we do not.
    Vegas thought UNLV would beat Howard by 45 points.
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  26. #236
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    The current Utah fan euphoria can be pretty silly, but it is not even in the same galaxy as the level of braggadocio, self-adulation, and over-the-top nonsense that we endured in BYU's so-called glory years. For Monson to say the two sides have switched places is just ridiculous.
    For as long as I can remember, every year BYU fans would predict lopsided wins over Utah, perhaps a byproduct of the 70s and 80s when such wins were often delivered. But even when the rivalry became competitive and the lopsided BYU wins became fewer and farther in between, the predictions of lopsided wins continued, an annual staple of rivalry week. Heck, even now, there are a few diehards still making such predictions.

    On the flip side, I have yet to hear or read a prediction this year from a Ute fan for a lopsided win.

    As for the local media, they acknowledge, as Monson did, that Utah is the superior program, yet this seems to earn the Utes only equal coverage with the team that used to dominate media coverage.

    I don't need the media to constantly say nice things about the Utes, I would just like to hear more about Utah -- a lot more -- than about the team down south.
    "It'd be nice to please everyone but I thought it would be more interesting to have a point of view." -- Oscar Levant

  27. #237
    Quote Originally Posted by Dwight Schr-Ute View Post
    I was just saying that we sat in our seats the moment Travis scampered for 25 yards to go up 35-0. I thought for sure that this was the perfect day to break my curse of poor offensive production while I was sitting in the stands. According to ESPN, we had 142 yards and 0 points from that point on.
    May that game become known as the beginning-of-the-end of Whitt's tight-fisted conservativism on offense. That was completely asinine, and Whitt was right to be pissed, and really it was on him.

    Hopefully, Travis has a respectable career as a TE in the NFL, but even with Travis, I wonder how a strong hand on the offense - ala what we all hope Taylor represents - would have made the last 3 quarters of that game different. When the opposing defense doesn't want to lay down, AND they know you're trying to burn the clock, the LOS battle is pretty much lost.

    I suspect Taylor would have put up another 21 points, but we would have thrown a Pick 6, too.

    If we get the chance tomorrow, I hope we stand on their throats. There will be games where it's smart to go conservative with a sizable lead, but if we get that tomorrow, don't let up. I think BYU is much more likely to fold up this year if half of their fans are bailing out early.

  28. #238
    Quote Originally Posted by Rocker Ute View Post
    So a somewhat interesting outlook on the rivalry game with some actual numbers to back it up:

    Since joining the PAC 12 there has been a faction of fans who have tried to pretend that the BYU game is no longer important to them. I've always thought it was BS, and it largely is. However, armed with traffic stats for UFN since 2005 I went and looked at when the traffic has peaked there from Aug 1 - Feb 1 of a respective season. Traffic in conjunction with the BYU football game is always high, and up until 2013 was definitively the highest peak day (other outliers of course were the Sugar Bowl and the PAC-12 invite which dwarfed all traffic).

    But after 2013 (Our game with them was on Sep 21 and we didn't play them again until the bowl game Dec 15 2015) other big PAC-12 games have come to outpace ever so slightly (by about 2%) the BYU game as far as traffic to the site goes. It is notable because you could typically visually see when the BYU game was and the days leading up to it because there was a clear peak. That is no more.

    No doubt, the BYU game is huge in the minds of the fans, but I would say it is no longer THE game of the year, which I'll be honest surprised me.

    But the same, and going strictly by the numbers, fans who claim that this game doesn't matter any more are being delusional.
    The game still matters to me, but it doesn't matter as much as it used to. "Seasons change and so do I."
    "It'd be nice to please everyone but I thought it would be more interesting to have a point of view." -- Oscar Levant

  29. #239
    Quote Originally Posted by Ma'ake View Post
    May that game become known as the beginning-of-the-end of Whitt's tight-fisted conservativism on offense. That was completely asinine, and Whitt was right to be pissed, and really it was on him.

    Hopefully, Travis has a respectable career as a TE in the NFL, but even with Travis, I wonder how a strong hand on the offense - ala what we all hope Taylor represents - would have made the last 3 quarters of that game different. When the opposing defense doesn't want to lay down, AND they know you're trying to burn the clock, the LOS battle is pretty much lost.

    I suspect Taylor would have put up another 21 points, but we would have thrown a Pick 6, too.

    If we get the chance tomorrow, I hope we stand on their throats. There will be games where it's smart to go conservative with a sizable lead, but if we get that tomorrow, don't let up. I think BYU is much more likely to fold up this year if half of their fans are bailing out early.
    I hope strategy always rules over emotion. The common denominator in all crazy comeback games is the offense still throwing when up 30+ points. If you ever get up 30+ points in a football game against a decent team, it's time to shut things down. The only way to lose that game is to turn the ball over and to slow the game down.

  30. #240
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Senioritis View Post
    Sadly, though, I don't think its gonna happen. I have rarely felt so confident of a Ute victory in this game. It feels wrong. That makes me think they are gonna lose. True Ute, over here.
    Ute fan PTSD kicks in. All of us who have been around for a long time recognize it and battle it at least one time every season.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

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