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Thread: If a Tree Falls in Rice Eccles Stadium - Utah vs. Stanford 10/7/17

  1. #91

    If a Tree Falls in Rice Eccles Stadium - Utah vs. Stanford 10/7/17

    Quote Originally Posted by SoCalPat View Post
    We throw deep more often with Troy, which leads to a lower completion percentage, but more chunk plays in the passing game.

    YPA is a more meaningful stat than completion percentage, and Troy was better among his peers in that regard than he was completion percentage.
    Troy's biggest issue surrounding him is that we have a hard time setting up play-action, because our O-line is so bad at pass blocking.
    Yet Troy was at 7.1 last year and 6.4 this year.

    Huntley is at 8.1 this year.

    While Troy fares slightly better in YPA he’s still bottom 1/3.






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    Last edited by Diehard Ute; 10-09-2017 at 02:40 PM.

  2. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by U-Ute View Post
    Thanksgiving dinner should be fun:

    Kyle, holding up wishbone: "Alex, do you think you could snap this?" *death stare*

    I joke, but there has to be an insane amount of pressure being Kyle's kid.

    Interesting note: Twitter said we had a long snapper commit sunday morning.
    Whittingham in his press conference today talked about that situation. Apparently Harry Handley was the heir-apparent to Chase Dominguez last year, Kyle claimed he was doing a great job, but of course got hurt. Because they were counting on Handley they didn't have a scholarship for a long snapper. They 'had another guy' on the team who was apparently great, but because he didn't have a scholarship and it looked like Handley would play he transferred. The next guy in line broke his arm and so Alex stepped up because he had been practicing it.

    Whittingham mentioned it is hard to have a guy playing on offense and then doing the long snaps because they don't get to warm up, but said they were 'working around the clock' this week to fix the problem. Then he said that Alex was going to do 'short snaps' and Handley would do 'long snaps' going forward.

  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by concerned View Post
    Yep. you say it every year, and every year I say its urban legend. Especially this year. I don't believe for a second that KW told TT the plays to run inside the 10 (or 5) after everything that has been said about giving TT total control of the offense, and the need t improve red zone production. If you tried to convince me that Trump had the largest inauguration crowds, I would believe it first.
    Actually, it's only this year that I've really insisted it's true. I probably brought it up last year/this offseason as a possibility, but wasn't sure. But seeing how the game is called between the 20s, and then when it's goal-to-go -- I would've had no reason to say what I've said about Kyle until this year anyway.

    This year, we're 112th in TD percentage in the red zone

    Last year, 115th

    2015: 65th

    2014: 78th

    2013: 51st

    2012: 38th (Ironically enough, this was the rare shining statistic in what was otherwise our worst offensive team ever under Kyle)

    2011: 98th

    At best, we've been an average team in this regard. Typically, we're well below average, and it's two years running we're among the nation's worst.

    I believe Kyle, if not all/most coaches, have more final say on decisions than most. For me, it's not that big of a leap from deciding to go for it on 4th down to taking over playcalling near the goal line. For the money we're paying Kyle, he has that right to have absolute authority on gameday in key situations. We all just want results, and when it comes to TDs in the red zone, we ain't seeing it by a long shot.

  4. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocker Ute View Post
    Whittingham in his press conference today talked about that situation. Apparently Harry Handley was the heir-apparent to Chase Dominguez last year, Kyle claimed he was doing a great job, but of course got hurt. Because they were counting on Handley they didn't have a scholarship for a long snapper. They 'had another guy' on the team who was apparently great, but because he didn't have a scholarship and it looked like Handley would play he transferred. The next guy in line broke his arm and so Alex stepped up because he had been practicing it.

    Whittingham mentioned it is hard to have a guy playing on offense and then doing the long snaps because they don't get to warm up, but said they were 'working around the clock' this week to fix the problem. Then he said that Alex was going to do 'short snaps' and Handley would do 'long snaps' going forward.
    They even have that noted on the depth chart. I've never seen that happen before, in any program, college or pro.

  5. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diehard Ute View Post
    Yet Troy was at 7.1 last year and 6.4 this year.

    Huntley is at 8.1 this year.

    While Troy fares slightly better in YPA he’s still bottom 1/3.






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    Huntley is at 8.1 with only the worst of our schedule in the books. It's an encouraging number, but I bet Troy's YPA was better through 4 games than it was at season's end, too.

  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    So, most of us believe we win that game with Huntley instead of Williams. Do we win that game with ARod instead of Taylor?
    This was a weird loss because the usual suspects (OC, play calling) weren't being trotted out like they have in the past. Having our backup QB in there, plus some uncharacteristic breakdowns in special teams -- this loss felt much different than previous losses. Also, Stanford was favored, and Utah actually covered the spread. I can't really find a parallel since we've been in the Pac-12.

  7. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by SoCalPat View Post
    This is what worries me most about Taylor. Stanford ranked 94th vs. the run this year. We knew that for a full week. We also knew that passing a lot behind this O-line with Troy at QB was a scenario we wanted to avoid as much as possible and went a long ways toward Huntley earning the job. Taylor called the game he wanted or is used to calling, rather than adjusting for his own personnel and the opponent.

    It's a team loss all the way across players and coaches, but at least Scalley adjusted as the night went on. Taylor was abysmal.
    So, I think we've all noticed that the TE position is dead in the new offense. We also seem to go with an empty backfield an awful lot. I'm not sure what aspects of an offensive system can be adjusted real time, but something has to be done in that situation to protect the QB.

  8. #98
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SoCalPat View Post
    This is what worries me most about Taylor. Stanford ranked 94th vs. the run this year. We knew that for a full week. We also knew that passing a lot behind this O-line with Troy at QB was a scenario we wanted to avoid as much as possible and went a long ways toward Huntley earning the job. Taylor called the game he wanted or is used to calling, rather than adjusting for his own personnel and the opponent.

    It's a team loss all the way across players and coaches, but at least Scalley adjusted as the night went on. Taylor was abysmal.

    First drive, 2nd and 3 is followed by two incomplete passes.

    Second drive, our best drive of the night, but you can see Taylor getting into pass-happy mode here. All three times before the short TD run by Moss, we passed on 1st and 10.

    Third drive, twice we pass incomplete on 1st and 10. The one time we ran on 1st and 10? DHC busts a 31-yard gain.

    Fourth drive, 3 and out, featuring you know what on 1st and 10.

    Fifth drive, would've been our best drive if we finished with a TD. Mixed run and pass well. But we go run-run-pass in goal-to-go and settle for 3.

    Sixth drive, an INC would've been better there than the 3-yard loss to Carrington. 3 and out

    Seventh drive, Moss and DHC combine for 22 carries. 9 came on this drive alone. And again, we go run-run-pass in the red zone and settle for 3. Way beyond predictable. I've said it before, I'll say it again: I am convinced Kyle takes over playcalling inside the 5 or in goal-to-go situations. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if Kyle called this entire drive. Troy Taylor did not rise through the coaching ranks as fast as he has by being so vanilla in goal-to-go. There's no other explanation, and Kyle wouldn't be the first coach I know of to do likewise.

    Eighth drive, one first down, six plays, five pass attempts and a 1-yard run by Troy. Now we're in full personality disorder mode on offense.

    Ninth drive, after the long Love TD run to put us down by 10. There's 12:02 left. Plenty of time, but we gotta be careful as we can't drain too much clock. Finally, we find Carrington for two big pass plays, and use a 16-yard Williams run to get out of a hole created by a holding penalty to start the drive. But again, we pass on first down (1st-and-15) and Troy makes one of the five worst throws I've seen a Utah QB make. Everything failed us on this play.

    Tenth drive, INT on first play, but I can't fault the call here. Just a horribly thrown ball by Troy.

    11th drive, TD, but again, in hurry-up mode, there's no time to run the ball here.

    We passed way too often on first down. Troy's strength is on deep balls. So we're often playing behind the sticks, compounding our offensive problems even further because this is not a great pass-blocking line. We could've gotten a better-called game from a top Madden player. This was atrocious.
    Great post.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  9. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    So, I think we've all noticed that the TE position is dead in the new offense. We also seem to go with an empty backfield an awful lot. I'm not sure what aspects of an offensive system can be adjusted real time, but something has to be done in that situation to protect the QB.
    We've been using a TE in the backfield on some short yardage plays. I remember one play against Arizona that should've gone for huge yardage, but Moss just wasn't fast enough to get through the hole, and a UA defender clipped him at the ankles. I'm also going to be paying attention to formations and motion more. I get lulled into the game, and it's rare that something sticks out. I'm gonna pay more attention to that this week.

  10. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by SoCalPat View Post
    We've been using a TE in the backfield on some short yardage plays. I remember one play against Arizona that should've gone for huge yardage, but Moss just wasn't fast enough to get through the hole, and a UA defender clipped him at the ankles. I'm also going to be paying attention to formations and motion more. I get lulled into the game, and it's rare that something sticks out. I'm gonna pay more attention to that this week.
    I remember a couple of interviews with Taylor where he said he wanted the TE to be able to line up in the backfield, on the end of the line or split out. I haven’t payed attention to the formations enough, but I imagine it’s no happening like he described it much.

    I still wonder how much the injuries to both our TE’s affected things. They basically missed all of call camp.


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  11. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diehard Ute View Post
    I remember a couple of interviews with Taylor where he said he wanted the TE to be able to line up in the backfield, on the end of the line or split out. I haven’t payed attention to the formations enough, but I imagine it’s no happening like he described it much.

    I still wonder how much the injuries to both our TE’s affected things. They basically missed all of call camp.

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    I would say we have 2-3 plays per game in which we have a TE in the backfield, minimum. I can't remember one that didn't come in short-yardage or goal-to-go.

    That said, when your base offense isn't based on a heavy formation, it's tough to go to one when you need it. Meanwhile, Stanford rolls out their 3 TE sets in their sleep.

  12. #102
    Diehard, Uteopia, Socal - and anyone else with more football knowledge than me,
    The tight end issue is driving me nuts. Can not being well for camp still be affecting using them? Is it quarterbacks who simply have their preferences and may not be very good looking at the short and intermediate middle routes normally reserved for tight ends? Is it Taylor's offense emphasizing boundary to boundary reads which basically eliminates one side of the field because the quarterback is looking left to right or right to left and taught to get the ball out quick?

    We have tight ends in Handley and Siale who could basically "post-up" a linebacker or safety in the middle of the field and I just don't see those kinds of routes. It seems to me that the two passing priorities this offense should do is look for Carrington (nice adjustments in the second half Saturday to do that) and throw to the tight ends given their size and Handley's pass-catching ability.

    I don't get it.

  13. #103
    Quote Originally Posted by SoCalPat View Post
    I would say we have 2-3 plays per game in which we have a TE in the backfield, minimum. I can't remember one that didn't come in short-yardage or goal-to-go.
    We used a fullback, right? Who was that again?

    Kinda related - did anyone see the block in the KC Chiefs game last night to protect Alex Smith? Flipped a cornerback blitz upside down.

  14. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    We used a fullback, right? Who was that again?

    Kinda related - did anyone see the block in the KC Chiefs game last night to protect Alex Smith? Flipped a cornerback blitz upside down.
    The fullback was Ippolito, #48.

  15. #105
    Administrator U-Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    So, I think we've all noticed that the TE position is dead in the new offense. We also seem to go with an empty backfield an awful lot. I'm not sure what aspects of an offensive system can be adjusted real time, but something has to be done in that situation to protect the QB.
    To be fair, with Fakalioatonga and Handley injured, we haven't had any TE's available for a while.

  16. #106
    After watching tape of game after being there in person;

    Right guard is a problem---Agasiva played first half. Stanford was running a basic stunt where D tackle goes to his right & DE loops behind him. Agasiva followed the DT leaving a huge gap. Or with no one directly over him he blocked down & blitzing LB ran through his gap. He was good on the run blocks.

    Havili-Katoa played 2nd half & got completely run over early on when pass blocking--but on last drive was better. he was not as good on run blocks---partly why they did not do as well in 2nd half.

    Several times there was a clean pocket & no one open immediately--at least Troy W did not throw it, & instead of hanging in there & stepping up into the pocket--he ran to the right. The Utes Right tackle had his man pushed that way so now Troy was under pressure & he also does not throw well on the run--did not work. Not sure if he can't see over the linemen or if he just gets nervous--but if he hangs in there someone will get open.
    He was much better on this towards the end of the last drive.
    Plus he missed several times where if he keeps the ball on run-option he had a huge hole---7:15 mark of 3rd quarter.

    I was at U Ortho yesterday & word is Huntley may be back for ASU

  17. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by Old Standing ute View Post
    After watching tape of game after being there in person;

    Right guard is a problem---Agasiva played first half. Stanford was running a basic stunt where D tackle goes to his right & DE loops behind him. Agasiva followed the DT leaving a huge gap. Or with no one directly over him he blocked down & blitzing LB ran through his gap. He was good on the run blocks.

    Havili-Katoa played 2nd half & got completely run over early on when pass blocking--but on last drive was better. he was not as good on run blocks---partly why they did not do as well in 2nd half.

    Several times there was a clean pocket & no one open immediately--at least Troy W did not throw it, & instead of hanging in there & stepping up into the pocket--he ran to the right. The Utes Right tackle had his man pushed that way so now Troy was under pressure & he also does not throw well on the run--did not work. Not sure if he can't see over the linemen or if he just gets nervous--but if he hangs in there someone will get open.
    He was much better on this towards the end of the last drive.
    Plus he missed several times where if he keeps the ball on run-option he had a huge hole---7:15 mark of 3rd quarter.

    I was at U Ortho yesterday & word is Huntley may be back for ASU
    I have seen a lot of comments that TW didnt see or throw to open receivers. I did not see that so much at the game; was it obvious on tv?

    Hans Olsen had some good breakdowns on you tube of our RG problems, including the play you mention above. He also showed a play where the guard picked up the stunt a few plays later.
    Last edited by concerned; 10-11-2017 at 03:06 PM.

  18. #108
    What is Jan Jorgensen's youtube channel?

  19. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian View Post
    What is Jan Jorgensen's youtube channel?
    Brain cramp. I meant Hans Olsen.

  20. #110
    Administrator U-Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by concerned View Post
    I have seen a lot of comments that TW didnt see or throw to open receivers. I did not see that so much at the game; was it obvious on tv?

    Hans Olsen had some good breakdowns on you tube of our RG problems, including the play you mention above. He also showed a play where the guard picked up the stunt a few plays later.
    Yeah, overall it seems like Hans confirmed what we all seemed to see: Our O-line struggled against Stanford.

  21. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by concerned View Post
    I have seen a lot of comments that TW didnt see or throw to open receivers. I did not see that so much at the game; was it obvious on tv?
    They highlighted it once or twice in replays.

  22. #112
    Concerned,
    I think you can see Hans' breakdowns on the 1280 The Zone site. I haven't looked at them for this week but he's posted the others there.

  23. #113
    Quote Originally Posted by Utebiquitous View Post
    Concerned,
    I think you can see Hans' breakdowns on the 1280 The Zone site. I haven't looked at them for this week but he's posted the others there.
    I have looked at this weeks. I think he does great analysis. I really like watching them.

  24. #114
    Quote Originally Posted by concerned View Post
    I have looked at this weeks. I think he does great analysis. I really like watching them.
    I like Hans too... why do BYU fans hate him so badly now?

  25. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocker Ute View Post
    I like Hans too... why do BYU fans hate him so badly now?
    Because he's a professional and doesn't shade his views in favor of the BYU.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  26. #116
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    Because he's a professional and doesn't shade his views in favor of the BYU.

    Which to them means he has gone over to the dark side and has more loyalty to KW than to his alma mater. They also used to think Hans hated Bronco.

  27. #117
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by concerned View Post
    Which to them means he has gone over to the dark side and has more loyalty to KW than to his alma mater. They also used to think Hans hated Bronco.
    Many BYU fans see the university as part of the church, especially athletics. So criticizing any aspect of the BYU is quasi-blasphemous and at the very least in bad taste or indicative of a lack of devotion to the church. I've been seeing this all my life.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  28. #118
    Quote Originally Posted by Utebiquitous View Post
    Diehard, Uteopia, Socal - and anyone else with more football knowledge than me,
    The tight end issue is driving me nuts. Can not being well for camp still be affecting using them? Is it quarterbacks who simply have their preferences and may not be very good looking at the short and intermediate middle routes normally reserved for tight ends? Is it Taylor's offense emphasizing boundary to boundary reads which basically eliminates one side of the field because the quarterback is looking left to right or right to left and taught to get the ball out quick?

    We have tight ends in Handley and Siale who could basically "post-up" a linebacker or safety in the middle of the field and I just don't see those kinds of routes. It seems to me that the two passing priorities this offense should do is look for Carrington (nice adjustments in the second half Saturday to do that) and throw to the tight ends given their size and Handley's pass-catching ability.

    I don't get it.
    It is hard to do everything. I did see both Handley and Siale each involved in a couple of pass plays against Stanford. The one I watched from the start was a seam route to Handley that was well covered. I would guess that Taylor believes that his small quick guys are better matches against LBs. We ran more trips with a single receiver opposite against Stanford to make them make a choice. Either cover the single receiver man and have 4 covering 3 on the trips side or double the single side and play 3 v 3 on trips. It will be interesting to see how it evolves. Based on what we have seen so far, I wouldn't expect us to recruit many quality TEs

  29. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by Old Standing ute View Post

    I was at U Ortho yesterday & word is Huntley may be back for ASU
    If he "may be" back for ASU, then he probably shouldn't be playing.

    ASU is a freeroll for us as far as Huntley's health is concerned. If we lose to USC, we're not winning the South anyway, so why rush him?

    OTOH, if we beat USC, you gotta figure we can beat ASU with a guy who had his best statistical game in league play against the Sun Devils.

  30. #120
    Thanks Uteopia - I get caught up watching the ball so much on offense that I really haven't noticed what we're doing and personnel groups.

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