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Thread: If a Tree Falls in Rice Eccles Stadium - Utah vs. Stanford 10/7/17

  1. #61
    My takeaways.

    1. The OL is decent at straight ahead run blocking but terrible at pass blocking. Agasiva is particularly bad and was frequently replaced by a recently converted DL.
    2. Huntley partly made up for poor OL play with his athleticism.
    3. It is hard to get comfortable and be consistent as a QB when you have pressure. Even when you have time, you are jumpy.
    4. Too much changing of personnel groups for my taste. Players need to play in order to get a feel for the game.
    5. Scoring TD's in the redzone is hard. Our D held Stanford to 3 FG attempts when they were inside the redzone.
    6. Neither Handley not Whittingham seem capable of snapping the ball.
    7. We had a very difficult time generating a pass rush without Fitts and Anae.
    8. QB's who aren't pressured usually don't throw picks.
    9. Huntley isn't coming back soon - In post game interview with Riley, Whit said that Williams and Bateman would compete this week in practice.
    10. It is never as good or as bad as it looks - ask Oklahoma, Michigan, Florida . . .
    11. The schedule doesn't get any easier.
    12. The opponent has players who are doing their best to win. Sometimes they do.

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by concerned View Post
    And the most important TO doesnt show up in the stats--the botched snap and punt.

    Q for everyone: we were debating the chicken and the egg question throughout--does Williams hold the ball too long, not make is reads correctly, thus allowing the pass rush to collapse on him, or does the o lone not give him time to go through those progressions, or both. Does he have happy feet or is he running for his life?

    Huntley seems to make decisions and get the ball out much faster. That, and his ability to evade the rush and run against a mediocre run defense at best, is why we all thought we would have won with him. (Kylie Fitts and Anae would have helped big time too.)
    Troy has target lock

    He rarely runs through his progressions. I think it makes it easier to rush him because he will sit and watch that guy and not see anything else.

    I like the guy, but even the way he handled the last two minutes bugged me. He was the slowest guy to get to the line. No running, no hustle, just wandering around. I expect more from a captain at QB.


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  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    KW said the big difference in the game was the -2 turnover margin, that the stats were otherwise pretty even. Thatís not to blame Troy Williams 100%. It points to poor pressure on Stanfordís QB. Fumbles arenít always about luck; theyíre often forced. Stanford just took good care of the ball. So did our runners.
    Clearly not Troy Williams' best game. Overthrows, underthrows, missing guys... ultimately throwing picks. He can play better than that.

    But the difference in protection for QBs was stark. Stanford's DL beat Utah's OL, Williams was flushed out of the pocket it seemed like 2/3 of the time. Huntley would have done better, almost certainly, but he also would have had LBs or Safeties coming up to lay a serious hit on him.

    I watched part of Arizona's win at Boulder, where UA brought in Khalil Tate, who is very similar to Dawkins in being a real dual threat QB, and he quickly ripped off two long TD runs Colorado had no answer for.

    Next year - are we a dual threat QB offense under Huntley, or a pocket QB offense, under Tuttle? (I think there's room for both styles, and wish Troy would have backed up my point last night.) If you're a team that runs your QBs, you need 4 of that type of QB.


    Brilliant defensive game plan by Scalley. The backbreaker run by Love was when Stanford got us into a spread defense, which allowed him to break a few tackles and go long distance.

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by Ma'ake View Post
    Clearly not Troy Williams' best game. Overthrows, underthrows, missing guys... ultimately throwing picks. He can play better than that.

    But the difference in protection for QBs was stark. Stanford's DL beat Utah's OL, Williams was flushed out of the pocket it seemed like 2/3 of the time. Huntley would have done better, almost certainly, but he also would have had LBs or Safeties coming up to lay a serious hit on him.

    I watched part of Arizona's win at Boulder, where UA brought in Khalil Tate, who is very similar to Dawkins in being a real dual threat QB, and he quickly ripped off two long TD runs Colorado had no answer for.

    Next year - are we a dual threat QB offense under Huntley, or a pocket QB offense, under Tuttle? (I think there's room for both styles, and wish Troy would have backed up my point last night.) If you're a team that runs your QBs, you need 4 of that type of QB.


    Brilliant defensive game plan by Scalley. The backbreaker run by Love was when Stanford got us into a spread defense, which allowed him to break a few tackles and go long distance.
    While I donít think the protection is great, I donít know that Troy let some plays develop.

    Itís always hard to judge watching things live and in person, but several times he seemed flustered and intent to move when he had a decent pocket, but his first receiver was covered.

    Just looked to me like he had happy feet all night. Maybe it was nerves, who knows.


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  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by concerned View Post
    Huntley seems to make decisions and get the ball out much faster. That, and his ability to evade the rush and run against a mediocre run defense at best, is why we all thought we would have won with him. (Kylie Fitts and Anae would have helped big time too.)
    Huntley is also accurate while moving.

  6. #66
    How did Utah become cursed in the screen game? Feels like over a decade since we had any success with screens.

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by concerned View Post
    And the most important TO doesnt show up in the stats--the botched snap and punt.

    Q for everyone: we were debating the chicken and the egg question throughout--does Williams hold the ball too long, not make is reads correctly, thus allowing the pass rush to collapse on him, or does the o line not give him time to go through those progressions, or both. Does he have happy feet or is he running for his life?

    Huntley seems to make decisions and get the ball out much faster. That, and his ability to evade the rush and run against a mediocre run defense at best, is why we all thought we would have won with him. (Kylie Fitts and Anae would have helped big time too.)

    I believe that Huntley is the better QB, but I also don't think it is fair to compare what Huntley did against sub-par defenses in SJSU, BYU and ND to the defenses Williams played against. The defenses are not comparable. Stanford was in Troy's face early and often. Huntley has not yet faced that and although we believe his athleticism will allow him to be successful, we don't know.

    This game was a winnable game. IMO, it came down to several plays.

    1. The botched snap that led to a Stanford FG and a 16-10 lead. Great effort by the D.
    2. The inability on the next drive to punch it in on 2nd and 1 and take a 17-16 lead. Great drive and response by O before that.
    3. Allowing Love to score on the second play, a 74 yard run, of the next drive.
    4. The two interceptions.

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by UTEopia View Post
    I believe that Huntley is the better QB, but I also don't think it is fair to compare what Huntley did against sub-par defenses in SJSU, BYU and ND to the defenses Williams played against.

    I hope I am not coming the two against different levels of competition. It just seems their mechanics are different. Example--the sideline throw to Carrington or a rb a yard or two behind the line. Huntley gets the ball out there more quickly than Troy, and the d has less time to react. I think that is tyrue on most throws. It takes Troy longer.

    And as Sancho noted, Huntley is much more accurate throwing on the run, and seemingly better at finding receivers downfield as he runs. FWIW.

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by concerned View Post
    I hope I am not coming the two against different levels of competition. It just seems their mechanics are different. Example--the sideline throw to Carrington or a rb a yard or two behind the line. Huntley gets the ball out there more quickly than Troy, and the d has less time to react. I think that is tyrue on most throws. It takes Troy longer.

    And as Sancho noted, Huntley is much more accurate throwing on the run, and seemingly better at finding receivers downfield as he runs. FWIW.
    I agree with this. Huntley may have inflated some stats against some bad teams. Stanford has a reputation as a great defense but statistically they are mediocre this year. They may yet be better than any other defense Utah has faced so far, but they aren't great. Troy just flat out missed a lot of guys that were open with inaccurate throws (in addition to not seeing a couple of wide open WRs). He's a strange QB, he can drop some beautiful dimes and then turn around and completely miss an open man on what appears to be a relatively basic throw.

    I don't know if Troy has regressed or he checked out when he lost the job (despite saying all of the right things in public) or if he is simply not a fit for this offense. Whatever the case, he doesn't look like the same guy that calmly led Utah 95 yards downfield to win it in the waning seconds against USC.

    I hope Huntley is back soon, but if not then I am also ready to see what Bateman can do. We're probably losing to USC no matter which of the three QBs plays so if we can take our lumps this week and improve our chances down the road then we need to do that.

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by UBlender View Post
    I don't know if Troy has regressed or he checked out when he lost the job (despite saying all of the right things in public) or if he is simply not a fit for this offense. Whatever the case, he doesn't look like the same guy that calmly led Utah 95 yards downfield to win it in the waning seconds against USC.
    He looked like Troy. Made some great throws, missed a handful of easy throws. He's had great moments, but the drive you reference vs USC isn't representative. Going into the season, I had hopes that another year of experience would bring out more of the strong moments.

  11. #71
    Troy is Troy. His career completion percentage is 53%.


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  12. #72
    Just watched the goal line series where it started 1st and goal from the 3 and we moved it to the 1/2 yard line. On 2nd down the right guard and center got blown up and we actually lost. On 3rd down, the play call was a WR screen to the left. The DB had it covered perfectly and Williams tried to escape and was sacked. Don't like the play call.

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    He looked like Troy. Made some great throws, missed a handful of easy throws. He's had great moments, but the drive you reference vs USC isn't representative. Going into the season, I had hopes that another year of experience would bring out more of the strong moments.
    easy score.


    He consistently misses throws high-- although he skipped a few off the ground last night.
    Missed Singleton on first series behind everyone when he threw a high line drive instead of lofting the throw--
    Missed Carrington when he was open multiple times & he refuses to run when the pull it & keep it on the run option is wide open. Stanford's non-athlete QBs killed us with that play.

    There is a reason Chris Peterson did not use him at Washington.
    BUT he is the best option now---Groan.

  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by UTEopia View Post
    I believe that Huntley is the better QB, but I also don't think it is fair to compare what Huntley did against sub-par defenses in SJSU, BYU and ND to the defenses Williams played against. The defenses are not comparable. Stanford was in Troy's face early and often. Huntley has not yet faced that and although we believe his athleticism will allow him to be successful, we don't know.
    Donít we have something to compare though? The first quarter of the Arizona game while Huntley was still in sure felt a lot different than the last three quarters when Williams was in. At first I chalked it up to Williams coming in cold. But after having two weeks, and looking more or less the same, Iím afraid that thereís a significant difference between the two.


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  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ma'ake View Post

    Brilliant defensive game plan by Scalley. The backbreaker run by Love was when Stanford got us into a spread defense, which allowed him to break a few tackles and go long distance.
    It was a good gameplan, especially in the second half when he stopped his maniacal blitzing. Once we started dropping guys in obvious pass downs, Stanford's air attack was pretty much shut down. Twice on Stanford's first TD drive, we sent 7 and got nowhere close to getting to the QB, who completed long passes for first downs. This is not the first time this year Morgan's hyper-aggressiveness has been on display.

  16. #76
    I thought scalley made a good halftime adjustment to get the edge russers to stay home and shut down the qb keeper on the read option. Not much success on that after halftime.

  17. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by Dwight Schr-Ute View Post
    Don’t we have something to compare though? The first quarter of the Arizona game while Huntley was still in sure felt a lot different than the last three quarters when Williams was in. At first I chalked it up to Williams coming in cold. But after having two weeks, and looking more or less the same, I’m afraid that there’s a significant difference between the two.

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    I think you need more than a quarter. If you took the 2nd half of last year's USC game and said that is Troy Williams, I think you get my point. I am not saying that Tyler is not the better QB. I think from all indications, he is. I'm just not sure how he would look facing much, much better defenses. I don't think any of us do. Our OL is a huge problem for whoever is QB and unless that gets straightened out, we could be in for a tough second half of the season.

  18. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by UTEopia View Post
    I think you need more than a quarter. If you took the 2nd half of last year's USC game and said that is Troy Williams, I think you get my point. I am not saying that Tyler is not the better QB. I think from all indications, he is. I'm just not sure how he would look facing much, much better defenses. I don't think any of us do. Our OL is a huge problem for whoever is QB and unless that gets straightened out, we could be in for a tough second half of the season.
    While I donít necessarily disagree with you, I think itís hard to ignore Troyís history.

    He had a good OL last year, and completed 53% of his passes. Heís at 50% through 7 quarters this year.

    We just need to be realistic with Troy, heís going to have several bad throws a game.


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  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by Diehard Ute View Post
    While I don’t necessarily disagree with you, I think it’s hard to ignore Troy’s history.

    He had a good OL last year, and completed 53% of his passes. He’s at 50% through 7 quarters this year.

    We just need to be realistic with Troy, he’s going to have several bad throws a game.


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    You are probably right. I just don't think the problems last night can all be put on him. I think the redzone failure from the 1 was poor execution by the OL on the 2nd down and a terrible play call on the 3rd down.

  20. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diehard Ute View Post
    While I don’t necessarily disagree with you, I think it’s hard to ignore Troy’s history.

    He had a good OL last year, and completed 53% of his passes. He’s at 50% through 7 quarters this year.

    We just need to be realistic with Troy, he’s going to have several bad throws a game.


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    We throw deep more often with Troy, which leads to a lower completion percentage, but more chunk plays in the passing game.

    YPA is a more meaningful stat than completion percentage, and Troy was better among his peers in that regard than he was completion percentage.

    Troy's biggest issue surrounding him is that we have a hard time setting up play-action, because our O-line is so bad at pass blocking.

  21. #81
    Senior Member Scorcho's Avatar
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    positives
    - only 1 injury that I remember (special teams captain)
    - reduced number of penalties
    - run game looked good ( 6 yrd. avg, except only 22 runs vs. 39 pass )


    negatives
    - no defensive QB pressure
    - no takeaways
    - pass protection and TW's happy feet are a bad combo ( especially if you're going to throw it 39 times )

    This reminded me of last year's Cal game, except Stanford is better than last years Cal team.

  22. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by concerned View Post
    I hope I am not coming the two against different levels of competition. It just seems their mechanics are different. Example--the sideline throw to Carrington or a rb a yard or two behind the line. Huntley gets the ball out there more quickly than Troy, and the d has less time to react. I think that is tyrue on most throws. It takes Troy longer.

    And as Sancho noted, Huntley is much more accurate throwing on the run, and seemingly better at finding receivers downfield as he runs. FWIW.
    Huntley gets it off quicker. Williams also takes off from the pocket quicker instead of staying in the pocket and delivering. And then he ALWAYS rolls right. And he can't run half as well as Huntley. He holds the ball a second or two too long before he delivers. And the defense doesn't respect his ability to keep the ball on the spread option.

    And does anybody know why we were so much quicker calling plays with Huntley than Williams? Was that because we were playing Stanford or because we had to slow down for Williams?

  23. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by Two Utes View Post
    And does anybody know why we were so much quicker calling plays with Huntley than Williams? Was that because we were playing Stanford or because we had to slow down for Williams?
    I suspect that we slowed the offense down in the 3rd quarter because we wanted to give our defense time to recuperate. If you are going 3-and-out, you can't hurry up the offense.

    I haven't heard anyone official say that, though.

  24. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by Two Utes View Post

    And does anybody know why we were so much quicker calling plays with Huntley than Williams? Was that because we were playing Stanford or because we had to slow down for Williams?

    It it looked like we struggled getting the right personnel groups on the field and we kept moving the trips from left to right and it takes time. When the offense is rolling it is easy to call plays. When it isn't, you take a few seconds longer. Players are standing waiting and then have to move to formation. WR's need to be set.

  25. #85
    Malleus Cougarorum Solon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Two Utes View Post
    Huntley gets it off quicker. Williams also takes off from the pocket quicker instead of staying in the pocket and delivering. And then he ALWAYS rolls right. And he can't run half as well as Huntley. He holds the ball a second or two too long before he delivers. And the defense doesn't respect his ability to keep the ball on the spread option.

    And does anybody know why we were so much quicker calling plays with Huntley than Williams? Was that because we were playing Stanford or because we had to slow down for Williams?
    This is along the lines of what I was wondering. Even after the bye week to prepare, Williams might not have the green-light with the entire playbook. They definitely seemed to be running a stripped-down version of the playbook, but - again - that might be a factor of the competition more than a feature of the QB.
    σοφῷ ἀνδρὶ Ἑλλὰς πάντα.
    -- Flavius Philostratus, Life of Apollonius 1.35.2.

  26. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scorcho View Post
    positives
    - only 1 injury that I remember (special teams captain)
    - reduced number of penalties
    - run game looked good ( 6 yrd. avg, except only 22 runs vs. 39 pass )


    This reminded me of last year's Cal game, except Stanford is better than last years Cal team.
    This is what worries me most about Taylor. Stanford ranked 94th vs. the run this year. We knew that for a full week. We also knew that passing a lot behind this O-line with Troy at QB was a scenario we wanted to avoid as much as possible and went a long ways toward Huntley earning the job. Taylor called the game he wanted or is used to calling, rather than adjusting for his own personnel and the opponent.

    It's a team loss all the way across players and coaches, but at least Scalley adjusted as the night went on. Taylor was abysmal.

    First drive, 2nd and 3 is followed by two incomplete passes.

    Second drive, our best drive of the night, but you can see Taylor getting into pass-happy mode here. All three times before the short TD run by Moss, we passed on 1st and 10.

    Third drive, twice we pass incomplete on 1st and 10. The one time we ran on 1st and 10? DHC busts a 31-yard gain.

    Fourth drive, 3 and out, featuring you know what on 1st and 10.

    Fifth drive, would've been our best drive if we finished with a TD. Mixed run and pass well. But we go run-run-pass in goal-to-go and settle for 3.

    Sixth drive, an INC would've been better there than the 3-yard loss to Carrington. 3 and out

    Seventh drive, Moss and DHC combine for 22 carries. 9 came on this drive alone. And again, we go run-run-pass in the red zone and settle for 3. Way beyond predictable. I've said it before, I'll say it again: I am convinced Kyle takes over playcalling inside the 5 or in goal-to-go situations. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if Kyle called this entire drive. Troy Taylor did not rise through the coaching ranks as fast as he has by being so vanilla in goal-to-go. There's no other explanation, and Kyle wouldn't be the first coach I know of to do likewise.

    Eighth drive, one first down, six plays, five pass attempts and a 1-yard run by Troy. Now we're in full personality disorder mode on offense.

    Ninth drive, after the long Love TD run to put us down by 10. There's 12:02 left. Plenty of time, but we gotta be careful as we can't drain too much clock. Finally, we find Carrington for two big pass plays, and use a 16-yard Williams run to get out of a hole created by a holding penalty to start the drive. But again, we pass on first down (1st-and-15) and Troy makes one of the five worst throws I've seen a Utah QB make. Everything failed us on this play.

    Tenth drive, INT on first play, but I can't fault the call here. Just a horribly thrown ball by Troy.

    11th drive, TD, but again, in hurry-up mode, there's no time to run the ball here.

    We passed way too often on first down. Troy's strength is on deep balls. So we're often playing behind the sticks, compounding our offensive problems even further because this is not a great pass-blocking line. We could've gotten a better-called game from a top Madden player. This was atrocious.

  27. #87
    Great summary of each drive. Thanks!

    That drive #9 was so frustrating. We were killing them with the run on that 6 or 7 minute drive. Our D was shutting them down. Time to drive with the run, score. Then rely on the D to get the ball back and one more drive for the tie/win.

  28. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by SoCalPat View Post

    I've said it before, I'll say it again: I am convinced Kyle takes over playcalling inside the 5 or in goal-to-go situations. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if Kyle called this entire drive. Troy Taylor did not rise through the coaching ranks as fast as he has by being so vanilla in goal-to-go. There's no other explanation, and Kyle wouldn't be the first coach I know of to do likewise.
    Yep. you say it every year, and every year I say its urban legend. Especially this year. I don't believe for a second that KW told TT the plays to run inside the 10 (or 5) after everything that has been said about giving TT total control of the offense, and the need t improve red zone production. If you tried to convince me that Trump had the largest inauguration crowds, I would believe it first.

  29. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by SoCalPat View Post
    It's a team loss all the way across players and coaches, but at least Scalley adjusted as the night went on. Taylor was abysmal.
    So, most of us believe we win that game with Huntley instead of Williams. Do we win that game with ARod instead of Taylor?

    I've said it before, I'll say it again: I am convinced Kyle takes over playcalling inside the 5 or in goal-to-go situations. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if Kyle called this entire drive. Troy Taylor did not rise through the coaching ranks as fast as he has by being so vanilla in goal-to-go. There's no other explanation, and Kyle wouldn't be the first coach I know of to do likewise.
    I'm with concerned. I don't buy this.

    When we hit 1st and goal on the 2, I screamed "three runs!" I just had no confidence in a pass play at that point. You can be creative with three runs, or you can run it up the middle each time. I don't care - just run it three times in that game at that time.

  30. #90
    Administrator U-Ute's Avatar
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    Thanksgiving dinner should be fun:

    Kyle, holding up wishbone: "Alex, do you think you could snap this?" *death stare*

    I joke, but there has to be an insane amount of pressure being Kyle's kid.

    Interesting note: Twitter said we had a long snapper commit sunday morning.

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