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Thread: Troy and Troy march into Troy: Utah @USC 2017

  1. #61
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diehard Ute View Post
    I don’t know where you got that number, the only data I could find was 56% for the Home team.


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    I got it from The Thrill, whom I consider a numbers guru. Maybe he was wrong. The other reasons are good enough. FWIW, Kyle just said in the post-game interview he'd make that call 10 of 10 times. To tell the truth, I really thought we'd kick the FG because that seemed to be the conservative-type call he'd make. Shows you how much I know.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  2. #62
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Kyle also said that Carrington has some injury issues and it was only his toughness that allowed him to be on the field tonight.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  3. #63
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Hey, at least the Dodgers won tonight!

    Also, I am down with a cold so did not go to the Coliseum tonight. I've proven that my presence there is not a jinx. Take note, concerned.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    No, both defenses were spent, though.

    Ugh, that 3rd and 10 scramble from Darnold. That's that game.
    so many plays where Darnold killed us by a hair's breadth. The one handed catch by his receiver on 4th down. (where his knee was down short of the first down???). the killer--where Tatiloa missed the safety by 1/2 inch, and Darnold completed the first down pass on the sidline at the 12 where the receiver barely kept his toes in bounds. Darnold killed us in the second half. Hats off to him.

  5. #65
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by concerned View Post
    so many plays where Darnold killed us by a hair's breadth. The one handed catch by his receiver on 4th down. (where his knee was down short of the first down???). the killer--where Tatiloa missed the safety by 1/2 inch, and Darnold completed the first down pass on the sidline at the 12 where the receiver barely kept his toes in bounds. Darnold killed us in the second half. Hats off to him.
    He made the plays great players make.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    Hey, at least the Dodgers won tonight!

    Also, I am down with a cold so did not go to the Coliseum tonight. I've proven that my presence there is not a jinx. Take note, concerned,
    If you had showed up, we would have lost 31-10, and I would have won the prediction contest.

  7. #67
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  8. #68
    Perhaps it's too soon for a Pollyanna post - I share a lot of the frustrations expressed, particularly the if only Troy keeps his eyes up, but...

    I saw a lot of improvement tonight. I've been waiting for the run game/O'line to take some significant steps forward. That might have been the biggest improvement. Moss was terrific tonight - what a catch and effort on the last drive (refs totally screwed him on the spot). How about Siaosi Wilson coming up with some nice plays. He emerges with Singleton going down - Simpkins as well. Troy Taylor called a better game. The third and one direct snap to Simpkins on our first drive of the third quarter was too cute but I can't be too critical. I liked the game plan.

    It's a tough loss but my expectations for this team just grew significantly even if Huntley can't get back. SC always gives us one of their better games. I agree with the commentators that a rivalry is growing. Imagine that a decade ago.

    Just a thrill to be taking shots from one of college football's big boys and giving them right back - we're so close. On to ASU.

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by Utebiquitous View Post
    Perhaps it's too soon for a Pollyanna post - I share a lot of the frustrations expressed, particularly the if only Troy keeps his eyes up, but...

    I saw a lot of improvement tonight. I've been waiting for the run game/O'line to take some significant steps forward. That might have been the biggest improvement. Moss was terrific tonight - what a catch and effort on the last drive (refs totally screwed him on the spot). How about Siaosi Wilson coming up with some nice plays. He emerges with Singleton going down - Simpkins as well. Troy Taylor called a better game. The third and one direct snap to Simpkins on our first drive of the third quarter was too cute but I can't be too critical. I liked the game plan.

    It's a tough loss but my expectations for this team just grew significantly even if Huntley can't get back. SC always gives us one of their better games. I agree with the commentators that a rivalry is growing. Imagine that a decade ago.

    Just a thrill to be taking shots from one of college football's big boys and giving them right back - we're so close. On to ASU.
    I agree with all this. I do think we typically match up better with USC than with some other teams that aren't as good as USC.

  10. #70
    Also, nice to see the penalties getting cleaned up. 6 for 40 yards. 1 was a delay that they wanted, and another delay was that bizarro substitution.

    I'm happy we have a run game now.

  11. #71
    What a game. Too bad the 2 point conversion failed but the decision to go for it was absolutely the correct decision. I agree with the moss revelation as well as Troy Taylor being much better last night.

  12. #72
    This has always been a rebuilding year. only 4 conference homes games, new ol, qb, rb, wr's,oc and db's.

    I really have been impressed by our young dbs, esp. Blackmon, Johnson, Blair, and now Guidry, and Afia. Last night was a completely different Moss. Somebody compared him to White. Booker a good comparison too. Biggest problem last night--could never get to Darnold. Really missed Fitts, but Anae, Hart, Fotu, etc. are stepping up too (Heckinger playeed a lot too).

    Everybody is stepping up. Now if we just don't fall flat like young teams do. We need Fitts, Huntley and Singleton.

    I did not realize that Chase and Anae were both out at the end of the game. Is Hansen's shoulder injury serious?
    Last edited by concerned; 10-15-2017 at 09:31 AM.

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by Applejack View Post
    What a game. Too bad the 2 point conversion failed but the decision to go for it was absolutely the correct decision. I agree with the moss revelation as well as Troy Taylor being much better last night.
    It appears I am the only person who doesn't love the idea of putting outcome of the game onto the one type of play we've struggled with most all season.

    This is a call that could reasonably be argued either way (unlike the FG decision in Provo this year, which was 100% consensus wrong), so I'm surprised so many are taking the 2-pnt conversion side. Darnold has 10 fumbles and a bunch of picks this season - why do people think we'd have no chance in OT? Yes, they were tearing into our defense, but we had just moved on theirs. As concerned pointed out, all of their scoring drives required great/lucky plays. Maybe their luck runs out? Overtime is basically a coin toss. I just don't think, based on all we've seen this season, that we have 50/50 odds when we line up at the 2.

  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by concerned View Post
    This has always been a rebuilding year. only 4 conference homes games, new ol, qb, rb, wr's,oc and db's.

    I really have been impressed by our young dbs, esp. Blackmon, Johnson, Blair, and now Guidry, and Afia. Last night was a completely different Moss. Somebody compared him to White. Booker a good comparison too. Biggest problem last night--could never get to Darnold. Really missed Fitts, but Anae, Hart, Fotu, etc. are stepping up too (Heckinger playeed a lot too).

    Everybody is stepping up. Now if we just don't fall flat like young teams do. We need Fitts, Huntley and Singleton.

    I did not realize that Chase and Anae were both out at the end of the game. Is Hansen's shoulder injury serious?
    I'm not sure what the right comparison is for Moss. Not quick like White, and not bruising like Booker. But he played a great game. Harding always seems to get the run blocking together sooner or later.

    Sack Lake City is still AWOL this season.

  15. #75
    Things that haven’t been mentioned.

    We were, once again, without Fitts and Anae at the end of the game.

    We were also without Chase.

    That’s 3 big guys to be missing. I’m sure that played into Kyle’s thought process.

    Kyle mentioned in his post game comments he knew our defense was short on players and was gassed due to the injuries.


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  16. #76
    I like the call to go for 2 is the same reason i liked both 4th and short. You are challenging your team to win the game by getting 3 yards.

    Btw had fakavailatoga had scored they would have kicked

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  17. #77
    What a game! Hard to lose that one but I like the fight in these guys.

    As for the 2-point conversion, I'm fine with it but is there some reason teams don't put out the kicking team and pretend to be kicking the extra point? Why not add the element of surprise in that situation? Maybe there is some unwritten rule in college football preventing a play like that. Just curious.

  18. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by Mormon Red Death View Post

    Btw had fakavailatoga had scored they would have kicked

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    good point. I wonder if he had just tried to bust through that defender, instead of waiting for a block, he could have made it in.
    woulda-coulda-shoulda. Still a great game (I thought the two score vegas line was about right), and very happy with the effort.

  19. #79
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    Responses to this thread and other thoughts ...

    There ain't a stat alive out there that shows home teams win 80 percent in OT. Not in college football, where winning the coin flip (a 50-50 prop) plays such a huge outcome in what you can and cannot do on offense. FWIW, I hate college OT. The NFL version is superior in nearly every way imaginable.

    I don't think there can be any judgment attached to Kyle's decision to go for 2. Plenty of arguments exist for both sides. I was convinced when USC called timeout, that Kyle got what he wanted USC to do -- burn its last timeout (Belichick is a master at getting teams to do this -- he's playing chess when everyone else is playing checkers). With 42 seconds left, you're borderline with most QBs on getting into FG range. You also have to take into account USC's kicking game, not just from distance, but what it can do in OT. The overwhelming thought in Kyle's mind was this: USC has a future No. 1 pick in the draft who has largely shredded us, and we cannot compete with that.

    Judgment, of course, can be passed on the actual play call, but let's be honest -- there's not a whole lot we do in the pass game from the 2. That's probably the best argument that exists for kicking the PAT.

    Darnold is a Pro. Never got flustered, made all the throws, is more elusive than even his own coaches probably give him credit for. He shredded us in the second half. Good riddance.

    My guess is USC went to a lot more zone in the second half. You play us man, you're playing into what Troy does best, which is sit back in the pocket and throw deep.

    I was screaming at the TV and Kyle to call a timeout on the Moss catch-and-run that resulted in a horrible spot. We had clear video evidence that Moss got the first down. The game is tied and we have 10:36 left in the game, ball on our own 30. Someone has to let Kyle know that we've got the first down, so we gotta let the booth have time to realize the error that was made by the refs on the field. That there was a measurement and still no one called it to our attention is beyond baffling. Instead of calling timeout (because we really need to think this one through), we rush to call a play, send our horrible running QB into the line and get the first down only because of another horrible spot by the refs. A complete and total breakdown by the coaching staff on that sequence.

    We needed to establish the run, get USC's offense off the field and find Carrington early and often. We did very well in the run game (still needed more carries than we got from Moss, who played easily his best game ever at Utah), we won the turnover battle, and although we failed in getting Carrington involved, we were actually a far more efficient team in the passing game than USC (9.5 YPA to 7.2).

    In the end, I don't know what more we could've done to win this game, but I can't for the life of me explain how we lost it, save for the fact that USC had Sam Darnold. We played great and lost. That's unfortunate, but that happens in football.

  20. #80
    Senior Member justaute's Avatar
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    Another angle of the 2-pt conversion attempt. Sigh...

    https://twitter.com/JFurKSL/status/919408305042178049

  21. #81
    anybody watch the UM-UI overtime yesterday? UM scored on the first play, a broken-play 25 yard run. UI then got to a first down on the two and couldn't score a TD in four plays. You cant blame KW for wanting to avoid it, given the play of our D and Darnold in the second half.

  22. #82
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Please don’t misunderstand me, I’m not claiming a moral victory in any way. It did occur to me just now that when I first started paying attention to Utah football, a game like this would have been simply for the money. We would have gone to the Coliseum like lambs to the slaughter and would never have expected even to be competitive in the game.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  23. #83
    To pile on SoCals gripe about the coaching staff not challenging bad calls, this was another important miss that’s still eating at me. This was on SC’s 4th and 9 play in the middle of their 98 yard scoring drive to pull within 7. Dude’s knee was clearly down short of the first down marker but he scrambled for a few more yards and they give him the easy first down. That drive really changed the mood.

    https://twitter.com/jdutezone/status/919415297265713154


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  24. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    I'm not sure what the right comparison is for Moss. Not quick like White, and not bruising like Booker. But he played a great game. Harding always seems to get the run blocking together sooner or later.

    Sack Lake City is still AWOL this season.
    No one tell Cam Smith.


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  25. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by Dwight Schr-Ute View Post
    To pile on SoCals gripe about the coaching staff not challenging bad calls, this was another important miss that’s still eating at me. This was on SC’s 4th and 9 play in the middle of their 98 yard scoring drive to pull within 7. Dude’s knee was clearly down short of the first down marker but he scrambled for a few more yards and they give him the easy first down. That drive really changed the mood.

    https://twitter.com/jdutezone/status/919415297265713154


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    That was the play of the game. That was a bigger miss than the 2pt conversion.

  26. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by NorthwestUteFan View Post
    That was the play of the game. That was a bigger miss than the 2pt conversion.
    A huge missed call that should have been reviewed. Whoever was in the review booth was asleep at the wheel for a large part of the game. Someone actually got paid to blow those calls.

  27. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by concerned View Post
    anybody watch the UM-UI overtime yesterday? UM scored on the first play, a broken-play 25 yard run. UI then got to a first down on the two and couldn't score a TD in four plays. You cant blame KW for wanting to avoid it, given the play of our D and Darnold in the second half.
    No, you can't blame Whitt. The call was defensible. It just wasn't the call I wanted.

    Of course, for every Mich/IU game, there is another game where the lesser team manages to win in OT.

  28. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by SoCalPat View Post
    Judgment, of course, can be passed on the actual play call, but let's be honest -- there's not a whole lot we do in the pass game from the 2. That's probably the best argument that exists for kicking the PAT.
    This was my reasoning. When we came out after the time out still intending to go for it, I figured we must have something lined up we felt strongly about. Of course, if we had such a play, we'd have used it last week against Stanford on third and goal.

    In the end, I don't know what more we could've done to win this game, but I can't for the life of me explain how we lost it, save for the fact that USC had Sam Darnold. We played great and lost. That's unfortunate, but that happens in football.
    To be fair, USC moved the ball easily for most of the game and finished with over 500 yards. If not for their turnovers in the first half, the game would have been lopsided.

  29. #89
    I thought Kyle might call his second time out after USC had called its time out and we lined up...something to throw them off...wacky formation, hard count, something. Other than that, zero objection to the call.

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  30. #90
    I swear I'm not trying to beat a dead horse here, but my brother asked me if I could think of any high profile examples of a team winning by going for two instead of taking overtime. Boise State over Oklahoma in the GOAT bowl is the one I can think of. I can think of many examples of the opposite - Nebraska for the title, Utah this weekend, BYU last year, GT losing to Tennessee this year. Feels like we see coaches try and fail at this a few times every year.

    I'm not sure there would be enough examples to collect a statistically significant sample, but I wonder if going for 2 in this situation has an even lower conversion percentage than in other situations.

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