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Thread: Troy and Troy march into Troy: Utah @USC 2017

  1. #91
    Arkansas beat ole miss 2 years ago like that.

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  2. #92
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Troy and Troy march into Troy: Utah @USC 2017

    The art of the 2 point conversion: When and why to go for it

    The art of the 2 point conversion: When and why to go for it

    For whatever it is worth.
    Last edited by LA Ute; 10-17-2017 at 12:39 AM.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
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  3. #93
    Administrator U-Ute's Avatar
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    Trigger warning:

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  4. #94
    Administrator U-Ute's Avatar
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    A friend of mine that is a Ute pointed out something interesting today: Is there something going on with TW and Carrington? You'd think he'd be looking for Carrington more. Then there was the pass in the first half in which Carrington looked like he didn't even expect it.

    I heard Whittingham's comments that DC is fighting through something, but still, it seems like TW is avoiding DC.

  5. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by U-Ute View Post
    Trigger warning:

    Threethings:

    1- Troy is already going down at this point. Still, if his eyes were up he might have seen Carrington breaking open.

    2- Why aren't Carrington's hands up in the air signaling he is open?

    3- If he did pass, at least we wouldn't have any ineligible lineman downfield.
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  6. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by chrisrenrut View Post
    Threethings:

    1- Troy is already going down at this point. Still, if his eyes were up he might have seen Carrington breaking open.

    2- Why aren't Carrington's hands up in the air signaling he is open?

    3- If he did pass, at least we wouldn't have any ineligible lineman downfield.
    Carrington was wide open earlier in the sequence well before TW engaged the USC defenders. FWIW.

  7. #97
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by concerned View Post
    Carrington was wide open earlier in the sequence well before TW engaged the USC defenders. FWIW.
    I listened to the podcast this morning of KW's press conference. Also FWIW, he thought the pass to Carrington should have been made. I don't think we should be too hard on Troy, but we need to call it what it was: a blown opportunity at the critical moment of the game. He flips that ball to Carrington and we are all celebrating a great historic win.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  8. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    I listened to the podcast this morning of KW's press conference. Also FWIW, he thought the pass to Carrington should have been made. I don't think we should be too hard on Troy, but we need to call it what it was: a blown opportunity at the critical moment of the game. He flips that ball to Carrington and we are all celebrating a great historic win.

    Somebody pointed out this morning that SC had :42, 3 timeouts, and a great field goal kicker. so who knows for sure what would have happened. And the failure of the UA qb to see open receivers played a big part in our win down there.

  9. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by concerned View Post
    Somebody pointed out this morning that SC had :42, 3 timeouts, and a great field goal kicker. so who knows for sure what would have happened. And the failure of the UA qb to see open receivers played a big part in our win down there.
    SC only had one time out, and Kyle got them to burn it when we lined up to go for two. Nevertheless, Darnold probably could've gotten them down the field in 42 seconds. He was shredding our D.
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  10. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by DrumNFeather View Post
    SC only had one time out, and Kyle got them to burn it when we lined up to go for two. Nevertheless, Darnold probably could've gotten them down the field in 42 seconds. He was shredding our D.
    You are right about that. i dont know why I heard otherwise. Maybe I was hallucinating. Brain cramp.

  11. #101
    Malleus Cougarorum Solon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by concerned View Post
    Somebody pointed out this morning that SC had :42, 3 timeouts, and a great field goal kicker. so who knows for sure what would have happened. And the failure of the UA qb to see open receivers played a big part in our win down there.
    Not sure about USC's FG kicker either. After all, SC decided to go for it on 4th and 9 at the Utah 27 rather than kick a FG. It was 3rd quarter and Utah led 21-14.
    http://www.espn.com/college-football...meId=400935297
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  12. #102
    If you watch the video of the 2 point try Troy’s weakness is exposed.

    He leaves the pocket early, and when he leaves he abandons the pass play and goes into run mode. If he’d just drifted outside while still running the play he had space and time. But instead he went out and forward, with his head down.


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  13. #103
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diehard Ute View Post
    If you watch the video of the 2 point try Troy’s weakness is exposed.

    He leaves the pocket early, and when he leaves he abandons the pass play and goes into run mode. If he’d just drifted outside while still running the play he had space and time. But instead he went out and forward, with his head down.


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    Also, as Riley pointed put today, Troy rolled right (as he always seems to do) where all the traffic was, instead of stepping left, where he would have had a couple of seconds to set his feet. I'm not sure this is a fair criticism, because I think the play called for Troy to hit the TE on the right side of the field, but USC saw that coming and covered the TE. But still, looking at this clip, it sure does look like he panicked and headed right:

    https://twitter.com/JFurKSL/status/919408305042178049
    Last edited by LA Ute; 10-17-2017 at 04:13 PM.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  14. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by Solon View Post
    Not sure about USC's FG kicker either. After all, SC decided to go for it on 4th and 9 at the Utah 27 rather than kick a FG. It was 3rd quarter and Utah led 21-14.
    http://www.espn.com/college-football...meId=400935297
    He beat Texas with a long field goal.

  15. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    Also, as Riley pointed put today, Troy rolled right (as he always seems to do) where all the traffic was, instead of stepping left, where he would have had a couple of seconds to set his feet. I'm not sure this is a fair criticism, because I think the play called for Troy to hit the TE on the right side of the field, but USC saw that coming and covered the TE. But still, looking at this clip, it sure does look like he panicked and headed right:

    https://twitter.com/JFurKSL/status/919408305042178049
    The play is a designed roll out to the right, then throw back to a receiver(s) going the opposite direction. USC read it and had it covered. Williams was never meant to stay in a straight drop back pocket, the pocket is designed to move to the right with him.

    Going for the two point conversion was the right call (desperate times call for desperate measures). The play call was not a good one.
    Last edited by tooblue; 10-17-2017 at 04:57 PM.

  16. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by tooblue View Post
    The play is a designed roll out to the right, then throw back to a receiver(s) going the opposite direction. USC read and had it covered. Williams was never meant to stay in a pocket, the pocket is designed to move to the right with him.
    Yep. The problem was that USC recognized it as a pass to the tight end, but their db's did not communicate. Two db's both covered the tight end; one was supposed to switch over to Carrington. When tW saw the TE covered, he ducked and ran.

  17. #107
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tooblue View Post
    The play is a designed roll out to the right, then throw back to a receiver(s) going the opposite direction. USC read it and had it covered. Williams was never meant to stay in a straight drop back pocket, the pocket is designed to move to the right with him.
    As I said, I wonder if Riley's criticism is fair. But if you look at the video it is not unreasonable to believe Troy could have stepped left. There wasn't a full rollout to the right. When he tucks and runs, he always goes right, unfortunately, and doesn't look for a receiver. Here, he ran right into traffic. As a spoiled fan, I think Huntley, with his better "escapability" and instincts, might well have made something happen in a play like this. Then again, with Huntley I think a different play might have been called.

    Last edited by LA Ute; 10-17-2017 at 05:42 PM.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  18. #108
    Senior Member justaute's Avatar
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    Good comment here. I think many Utes fans with red goggles overlooked this.

    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post

    To be fair, USC moved the ball easily for most of the game and finished with over 500 yards. If not for their turnovers in the first half, the game would have been lopsided.

  19. #109
    There are always multiple ways to look at things. Sure, USC moved the ball on us the whole game but where have you been for all of the Kyle's career at Utah? Teams get yards on Utah but the Utes tend to keep the score down. Besides, Utah had it's own stumbles in the first half. A missed field goal - an easy field goal at that, and an interception in the redzone (great play by Cameron Smith). That's ten points. Could we just call the game what it was - close, hard fought, another awesome game in the USC-Utah series? I'm going to choose that narrative if you don't mind. In this case, it's a lot closer than the fiction you and Sancho want to embrace.

  20. #110
    Quote Originally Posted by Utebiquitous View Post
    There are always multiple ways to look at things. Sure, USC moved the ball on us the whole game but where have you been for all of the Kyle's career at Utah? Teams get yards on Utah but the Utes tend to keep the score down. Besides, Utah had it's own stumbles in the first half. A missed field goal - an easy field goal at that, and an interception in the redzone (great play by Cameron Smith). That's ten points. Could we just call the game what it was - close, hard fought, another awesome game in the USC-Utah series? I'm going to choose that narrative if you don't mind. In this case, it's a lot closer than the fiction you and Sancho want to embrace.
    We did score on the fumble by Darnold in the series following the INT so we effectively did get seven points on that drive. The missed FG hurt.
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  21. #111
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Utebiquitous View Post
    There are always multiple ways to look at things. Sure, USC moved the ball on us the whole game but where have you been for all of the Kyle's career at Utah? Teams get yards on Utah but the Utes tend to keep the score down. Besides, Utah had it's own stumbles in the first half. A missed field goal - an easy field goal at that, and an interception in the redzone (great play by Cameron Smith). That's ten points. Could we just call the game what it was - close, hard fought, another awesome game in the USC-Utah series? I'm going to choose that narrative if you don't mind. In this case, it's a lot closer than the fiction you and Sancho want to embrace.
    USC’s turnovers were not gifts. One of them was forced and produced an immediate TD. Also, it seems to me that if one team has fewer TOs than the other, that means the team with fewer TOs has outplayed the other team in that regard.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  22. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by Utebiquitous View Post
    it's a lot closer than the fiction you and Sancho want to embrace.
    Hey, don't put words in my mouth. No one claimed this was not a close, hard fought, awesome game. I believe Utah played a great game, and USC moved the ball easily. Those two things are not mutually exclusive.

    By the way, since you mentioned it, was the Cam Smith interception really a great play? Troy threw it right at him. He was caught between a blitz and pass coverage (no man's land), and Troy tried to throw it through him. Cam jumped, but he didn't have to. It hit him in the numbers. Cam is clearly a great player, but just about any LB makes that pick.

  23. #113
    Sancho,
    Don't mean to offend - I did come off a little to flippant to you and justaute. My apologies.

    As to Cam Smith - I just think an interception that close to the line of scrimmage is pretty remarkable because the ball's traveling at a pretty good speed. Definitely a poor play by Williams who needed to find another way to get the ball to Nacua who I think was open on the play.

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