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Thread: Up the wazzu... Utah vs Washington St Football Thread

  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Applejack View Post
    Also, kudos to the d for making a lot of stops in tough situations tonight. We're still not getting pressure rushing 4, but we were effective overall in the defensive backfield.
    We held WSU 100 yards below their season average for total yards. Considering the 7 turnovers and missing starters, that's pretty impressive.

  2. #62
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    We held WSU 100 yards below their season average for total yards. Considering the 7 turnovers and missing starters, that's pretty impressive.
    Sure is. In a way it’s actually encouraging.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by Applejack View Post
    We were the lesser team tonight (especially w all the injuries) but still had a chance. That at least was good to see.

    Question: why not go for 2 after we scored the TD that cut the lead to 9 (before we kicked the extra point)? You have to get a two point conversion at some point, so why not try there? If you miss, you play differently knowing you need two scores, and if you make it you're down 7 and that gives you the option of going for 2 again when you score next time (and winning). Seems like a no-brainer.
    You may only get one more chance to score. If you go for 2 and don't get it, it is a two score game and you have no chance. The rule of thumb is that you don't go for two until you absolutely need to. IMO, Whit played it correctly both times.

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by NorthwestUteFan View Post
    .....and next year Huntley won't make as many big mistakes.
    Agreed.....cuz he'll be second string. My bold prediction. Jack Tuttle four year starter.
    “Children and dogs are as necessary to the welfare of the country as Wall Street and the railroads.” -- Harry S. Truman

    "You never soar so high as when you stoop down to help a child or an animal." -- Jewish Proverb

    "Three-time Pro Bowler Eric Weddle the most versatile, and maybe most intelligent, safety in the game." -- SI, 9/7/15, p. 107.

  5. #65
    Loved the fight in this team. Would have been very easy to pack it in after all the turnovers, especially early on.
    Lots of youth that will only get better. I like the future.
    The OL... I'm guess we just don't have the talent there this year.

    Hopefully we can catch the Huskies on a letdown after their playoff hopes died.

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by mUUser View Post
    Agreed.....cuz he'll be second string. My bold prediction. Jack Tuttle four year starter.
    Any player good enough to start all four years will be gone after three.

    And he will kill future QB recruiting during those three years.

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    We held WSU 100 yards below their season average for total yards. Considering the 7 turnovers and missing starters, that's pretty impressive.
    Granted, we gave them a short field many times. That also affects total yards.

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by NorthwestUteFan View Post
    Granted, we gave them a short field many times. That also affects total yards.
    Wow. WSU started on our 12, 12, 15, and 19. Insane that game was close at the end.

  9. #69
    Falk was 40/69 for 311 yards. 4.5 YPA.

    His YPA for his career is about 7.1

    Utah played WSU well defensively. Our turnovers just killed us

    (Huntley was 21/39 for 305)


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  10. #70
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NorthwestUteFan View Post
    Wow. WSU started on our 12, 12, 15, and 19. Insane that game was close at the end.
    I’m kinda glad I wasn’t able to watch that.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  11. #71
    I am not at all convinced on Taylor or his offense, but Whit damn well better give him at least 3 years to make it work. And I don't mean 3 years interspersed with Chow one year and Christensen another year. I personally don't believe you should fire a HC until he has at least had 3 or 4 years to get his program in place. It really can't be any different with an OC, especially when you are changing the entire offensive philosophy.

    Hard to say the D played well looking at 33 points on the board, but that was a great effort and a great plan of attack, especially without Hansen, Tautioli, Blair and Fitts.

    The O kept plugging away and it is amazing we had a chance at a hail mary, without Carrington and playing Fields the last series because the others were gassed or hurt.

    Disappointed in the loss - not disappointed in the effort and guts.

  12. #72
    I didn't expect to beat Wazzu, and was heartened that the team fought all the way to the end, and actually had a chance on the Hail Mary.

    Seven turnovers... unfathomable. Still, seeing the fight in the team made it not nearly as demoralizing as the ASU game.

    On the postgame, when Reilly asked Huntley about why Troy Williams was brought in for the Hail Mary, Reilly suggested maybe it was because he (TH) was tired... and Tyler quickly agreed. "Yeah, I was tired. Troy came in for the last play because I was tired".

    No dig on Huntley, who has been a warrior and was thrown around like a rag doll on a number of plays, but that response revealed both the steely pride in Huntley, and a season with (at least some degree of) a divided locker room over the QB issue. We've had so many OL downfield calls this year, those guys have been through hell with how the offense has gone. Clearly a mismatch in how Harding has developed this OL, and what is required with a QB who may throw on the last half second before crossing the LOS.

    "So, Coach, now we're not supposed to block downfield if it turns out to be a running play? What should we do?"

    We need Arizona's OL... or maybe not, depending on how Tuttle looks.
    Last edited by Ma'ake; 11-12-2017 at 09:59 AM.

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by UTEopia View Post
    I am not at all convinced on Taylor or his offense, but Whit damn well better give him at least 3 years to make it work.
    My hope is nobody has learned more than Taylor, this year. I agree 3 years is what it takes to fully install an offense, with recruiting, etc.

    The big question is what is an acceptable rate of improvement? Our adjusted hopes are we could get to a bowl this year, which is a sizable let down from preseason expectations. If we don't get to a bowl next year, will that be viewed as acceptable....by the fans?

    Whitt has grinded through a lot of seasons. What is unknown is Taylor's tolerance for struggling at this level, under this level of pressure. Definitely not as much fun as the aerial circus last year at Eastern WA. I feel like I know less about Taylor now than before the season, but the early optimism is diminished, consistent with the record.

    Taylor/Whitt can buy more time, maybe a full 3 years, if we get to a bowl game and do well.

  14. #74
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Up the wazzu... Utah vs Washington St Football Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Ma'ake View Post
    My hope is nobody has learned more than Taylor, this year. I agree 3 years is what it takes to fully install an offense, with recruiting, etc.

    The big question is what is an acceptable rate of improvement? Our adjusted hopes are we could get to a bowl this year, which is a sizable let down from preseason expectations. If we don't get to a bowl next year, will that be viewed as acceptable....by the fans?

    Whitt has grinded through a lot of seasons. What is unknown is Taylor's tolerance for struggling at this level, under this level of pressure. Definitely not as much fun as the aerial circus last year at Eastern WA. I feel like I know less about Taylor now than before the season, but the early optimism is diminished, consistent with the record.

    Taylor/Whitt can buy more time, maybe a full 3 years, if we get to a bowl game and do well.
    I don't think Taylor can be held responsible for the offensive line. Maybe that's the usual combination of bad luck in recruiting, ineffective coaching, and underperformance; but we clearly don't have the horses on the o-line that we need. Yes, we lost our stars to the NFL, but everyone knew those guys were graduating or might leave. Was there a failure to plan?

    It does seem that the o-line is struggling to learn the new system. Not sure that is on Taylor either. I agree with you that we don't know as much about him as we thought we did. If Whit fires Taylor after this season we will know that the Utes' offensive woes will never change until Whit retires.
    Last edited by LA Ute; 11-12-2017 at 11:02 AM.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    I don't think Taylor can be held responsible for the offensive line. Maybe that's the usual combination of bad luck in recruiting, ineffective coaching, and underperformance; but we clearly don't have the horses on the o-line that we need. Yes, we lost our stars to the NFL, but everyone knew those guys were graduating or might leave. Was there a failure to plan?

    It does seem that the o-line is struggling to learn the new system. Not sure that is on Taylor either. I agree with you that we don't know as much about him as we thought we did. If Whit fires Taylor after this season we will know that the Utes' offensive woes will never change until Whit retires.
    These OL were recruited to be road graders in a power run offense, not nimble pass blockers in a run pass option. Why did we run more effectively against USC, we returned to a power run game. Don't blame the recruiting or the players or Harding. Their ineffectiveness is on Whit totally changing the scheme and philosophy.

  16. #76
    If Whitt fires Taylor, then the entire staff needs to go. Probably should send half of the AD staff out the door as well, including Chris Hill if he allows that to happen.

    There is absolutely no way we should see a different OC next year.

  17. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by UTEopia View Post
    Don't blame the recruiting or the players or Harding. Their ineffectiveness is on Whit totally changing the scheme and philosophy.
    True. But changing again is another level of stupidity mixed with arrogance.

  18. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by NorthwestUteFan View Post
    True. But changing again is another level of stupidity mixed with arrogance.
    I am not advocating firing anyone. Even though I am not convinced that Taylor or his offense is right for Utah, I think Whit needs to commit to him for at least two more years.

  19. #79
    Senior Member justaute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UTEopia View Post
    These OL were recruited to be road graders in a power run offense, not nimble pass blockers in a run pass option. Why did we run more effectively against USC, we returned to a power run game. Don't blame the recruiting or the players or Harding. Their ineffectiveness is on Whit totally changing the scheme and philosophy.
    Well, as Whit has said before, it's always on the coaches -- basically either you can't recruit or you can't coach. I guess there is that 3rd combination of both.

  20. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by UTEopia View Post
    I am not advocating firing anyone. Even though I am not convinced that Taylor or his offense is right for Utah, I think Whit needs to commit to him for at least two more years.
    I agree. Get to a bowl game, get in the extra practice, hopefully win the game, then that gives breathing room for a couple more years. If we cough up the last two games, the pressure is acute for next year. We don't want Year 3 to be a formality where everyone suspects it's a dead man walking situation.

    More head-scratching from yesterday is our best offensive work was in the air game, where the OL did reasonably well giving Huntley a chance to connect on some long throws.

    Huntley was harassed and sacked and had to escape a number of times... but we outgained Wazzu, with less than 100 on the ground? Remarkable. It says a lot about TH, and the receivers, and the OL wasn't a complete sieve in pass protection. (Of course, Wazzu didn't get the opportunity to rack up a lot of yardage.)

    And they fought to the end, with a shot to take it to OT. That's the biggest positive.

  21. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by UTEopia View Post
    I am not at all convinced on Taylor or his offense, but Whit damn well better give him at least 3 years to make it work. And I don't mean 3 years interspersed with Chow one year and Christensen another year. I personally don't believe you should fire a HC until he has at least had 3 or 4 years to get his program in place. It really can't be any different with an OC, especially when you are changing the entire offensive philosophy.

    Hard to say the D played well looking at 33 points on the board, but that was a great effort and a great plan of attack, especially without Hansen, Tautioli, Blair and Fitts.

    The O kept plugging away and it is amazing we had a chance at a hail mary, without Carrington and playing Fields the last series because the others were gassed or hurt.

    Disappointed in the loss - not disappointed in the effort and guts.
    I don't want an OC who needs to get to Year 3 at the least before we start seeing tangible results and marked improvement. Two years is more than enough evidence to see whether or not Taylor will work out. That said, until we commit fully to one identifiable offensive philosophy, it really doesn't matter who our OC is, does it?

  22. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by NorthwestUteFan View Post
    If Whitt fires Taylor, then the entire staff needs to go. Probably should send half of the AD staff out the door as well, including Chris Hill if he allows that to happen.

    There is absolutely no way we should see a different OC next year.
    If Kyle asks for or requests any major changes this offseason, he's opening the door wide open for Hill to demand some changes in the terms of his contract.

  23. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by Ma'ake View Post
    More head-scratching from yesterday is our best offensive work was in the air game,
    This is a matchup thing. We clobbered UCLA on the ground because of who they are, and we moved the ball in the air on Wazzu because that is where their weakness lies.

    It's nice to have an offense that can do either, depending on the strengths/weaknesses of the opponent.

    Really, nothing wrong with the offense (other than that dang reverse) or the defense yesterday. Just turnovers.

  24. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by justaute View Post
    Well, as Whit has said before, it's always on the coaches -- basically either you can't recruit or you can't coach.
    Whitt says this because that's what good leaders say, but it's clearly more complicated than that. Luck plays as large a role as anything else, but there's no way a coach can get away with saying that.

  25. #85
    This conversation is taking a strange turn. I'm not sure why we are discussing Taylor's job security. Of course he'll be here next year. He'll be here the year after as well, and then he'll leave for a head coach job somewhere after we win the Pac-12.

  26. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by SoCalPat View Post
    If Kyle asks for or requests any major changes this offseason, he's opening the door wide open for Hill to demand some changes in the terms of his contract.
    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    This conversation is taking a strange turn. I'm not sure why we are discussing Taylor's job security. Of course he'll be here next year. He'll be here the year after as well, and then he'll leave for a head coach job somewhere after we win the Pac-12.
    Whitt's job security has to be tied to Taylor. If Taylor gets fired then Whitt needs to be the next one out the door, followed by whomever in the AD allows that chaos to happen.

    But this entire discussion is academic. If Whitt is the HC, then Taylor is the OC.

    People pushing for a new HC or OC after this year don't know enough about CFB to be taken seriously in any way.

  27. #87
    Administrator U-Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    We held WSU 100 yards below their season average for total yards. Considering the 7 turnovers and missing starters, that's pretty impressive.
    Well, in their defense, they only had to go 60 yards total for 4 of their scores.

  28. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by U-Ute View Post
    Well, in their defense, they only had to go 60 yards total for 4 of their scores.

    Very true, but they had a lot of possessions. We noted that they had 4 possessions in the 1st. q. How many times does that happen?

  29. #89
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by concerned View Post
    Very true, but they had a lot of possessions. We noted that they had 4 possessions in the 1st. q. How many times does that happen?
    Except for one 75 yard drive, every WSU score came after a drive of 46 yards or less.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  30. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by SoCalPat View Post
    I don't want an OC who needs to get to Year 3 at the least before we start seeing tangible results and marked improvement. Two years is more than enough evidence to see whether or not Taylor will work out. That said, until we commit fully to one identifiable offensive philosophy, it really doesn't matter who our OC is, does it?
    The devil is always in the details because we will never be able to reach a consensus on what constitutes tangible results and marked improvement.
    Going back to 2016 - would ARod still be OC if Moss follows Asiata into the hole at Cal and we win that game or Brian Allen's hand is a 3 or 4 inches to the left and knocks down the ball caught by Carrington in the Oregon game? My guess is no. So what will be the five or six plays next year that mark the difference between tangible results and marked improvement?

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