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Thread: Roy Moore and Alabama

  1. #1
    Administrator U-Ute's Avatar
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    Roy Moore and Alabama

    Time to talk about this guy....

    http://www.alreporter.com/2017/11/10...e-republicans/

    It was a pathetic and infuriatingly stupid display of all-out ignorance. Led, of course, by State Auditor Jim Zeigler, who never misses an opportunity to insert himself into a controversy. To justify Moore’s alleged sexual assault of a minor, and his pursuit of teenagers when he was in his 30s, Zeigler turned to the Bible, to the story of Jesus’ parents. “Take Joseph and Mary,” Zeigler said to a reporter from the Washington Examiner. “Mary was a teenager and Joseph was an adult carpenter. They became the parents of Jesus.”
    Daniel Dale, a Washington correspondent for the Toronto Star, attempted to call several of Alabama’s GOP county chairmen. Of the eight he managed to get on the phone, not a single one denounced Moore’s alleged behavior.
    Two of those county chairmen — Bibb County’s Jerry Pow and Covington County’s William Blocker — actually told Dale that they’d vote for Moore over Doug Jones even if they had hard evidence that Moore committed sexual assault.
    Even. If. They. Had. Proof.
    I know the South is its own place, but what in the hell is going on down there?

  2. #2
    http://wbrc.images.worldnow.com/images/23436446_BG1.jpg

    This statue is called Four Spirits. It is a memorial for the four girls who were killed when the 16th Street Baptist Church was bombed by the KKK.

    The Democratic candidate in the Senate race, Doug Jones, was the US Attorney who indicted and prosecuted the two remaining bombers, leading to their convictions. (Jones also prosecuted Eric Rudolph for the of an abortion clinic in Birmingham, before extraditing him to Georgia to stand trial for the Olympic bombing).

    And yet (as of yesterday), Roy Moore led the race by 9 points. Rammer Jammer, Alabammer!

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by U-Ute View Post
    Time to talk about this guy....

    I know the South is its own place, but what in the hell is going on down there?
    This is not unique to the South. People in any part of the country would vote for their party over the other party in this circumstance. Even. If. They. Had. Proof.

  4. #4
    if you voted for Trump, how is voting for Roy Moore any different?

  5. #5
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by concerned View Post
    if you voted for Trump, how is voting for Roy Moore any different?
    He only admitted to sexually assaulting adults?

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  6. #6
    I liked the comparison of Roy Moore to Joseph and Mary.

    Moore's inability to remember the 14 year old, along with Sessions' own faulty memory, suggest Scott Pruitt really should look at the drinking water in Alabama.

    Fortunately, we have "Roy Moore, DA"'s signature in the young lady's yearbook to help the incoming Senator remember.

    Trump may be conflicted - is he happy to have somebody else getting negative attention, or is he jealous that Moore was sweet talking teenage girls, to the point of being banned from shopping malls?

  7. #7
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Roy Moore and Alabama

    How Roy Moore’s Misdeeds Are Forcing an Awakening on the Left

    By Jeff Greenfield

    Are liberals having a moral awakening? Watching the political contortions of Republicans to defend a candidate accused of sexually molesting teenage girls, Democrats and liberal pundits are reckoning publicly with their own history of fervid rationalizations on behalf of a recent president. But this should be just the beginning of a painful re-examination....
    https://www.politico.com/magazine/st...mocrats-215825
    Last edited by LA Ute; 11-15-2017 at 07:34 AM.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  8. #8
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Thank Liberals if Moore Survives

    Yet Goldberg cannot keep herself from seeing a truth that was evident during the Clinton presidency to anyone with eyes to see: Bill Clinton was a sexual reprobate whose ascension to the Democratic nomination after the revelation of his relationship with Flowers during the primaries was a hinge moment in American history.

    No one before him would’ve survived it. He did by denying it hotly — and was saved from perdition’s flames by his Hillary. She sat there on “60 Minutes” and supported him even as she said she wasn’t the type of woman who’d just “stand by her man.” Later, Clinton acknowledged the five-year Flowers affair in testimony before an independent counsel.

    n 1998, when the news of his liaison with Lewinsky became public, the Clintons did it again. Bill said he did not have sexual relations with Miss Lewinsky, and Hillary went on the “Today Show” and said her husband had unjustly been placed in the target sights of a “right wing conspiracy.”

    If you want to know how Roy Moore of Alabama might survive these charges against him and win the Senate race in December, look no farther than Hillary Clinton’s words. Again, replace “right wing” with “left wing” (or “GOP establishment”) and you have the entirety of Moore’s defense.

    The Clinton play in the wake of the Lewinsky revelation was to signal to their supporters and the entire Democratic liberal-left that any crack in their defense of him would allow a Puritanical right-wing flood to engulf the country.

    And anyway, even if you believed he’d done it, what had he done? It was a peccadillo, really nothing more than the sainted JFK had done in his tragically shortened time in the Oval.

    Moore is saying exactly the same thing to conservatives.
    http://nypost.com/2017/11/14/thank-l...s-against-him/

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  9. #9
    The Republicans are all in for the tax cut, aren't they? Even if it costs them every remaining scintilla of moral authority they had left. Is this where we have come to as a society?

    It is simply unbelievable.

  10. #10
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NorthwestUteFan View Post
    The Republicans are all in for the tax cut, aren't they? Even if it costs them every remaining scintilla of moral authority they had left. Is this where we have come to as a society?

    It is simply unbelievable.
    No fair changing the subject.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  11. #11
    I just hope against hope that Trump will have to echo McConnell and say whether he finds the women credible or not. That would be delicious.

  12. #12
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by concerned View Post
    I just hope against hope that Trump will have to echo McConnell and say whether he finds the women credible or not. That would be delicious.
    Indeed it would. But I can't resist saying I'd love to see Bill or Hillary Clinton say the same thing. I ask your forgiveness.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    Thank Liberals if Moore Survives
    Each party seems to take great comfort in knowing that the other party is also corrupt. Race you to the bottom!

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    Indeed it would. But I can't resist saying I'd love to see Bill or Hillary Clinton say the same thing. I ask your forgiveness.
    Fine by me. And while we are at it, ask all the Congressional Republicans if they find Moore's accusers credible but not Trump's.
    Last edited by concerned; 11-15-2017 at 11:05 AM.

  15. #15
    Administrator U-Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    No fair changing the subject.
    Yes. Please can we only handle one forcible sexual assault discussion at a time.

  16. #16



    Hannity is predicting Hillary Clinton to get to the Final Four and win it all.

  17. #17
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by concerned View Post



    Hannity is predicting Hillary Clinton to get to the Final Four and win it all.
    What a bozo.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    Thank Liberals if Moore Survives
    "Senator Moore" would become an invaluable marketing battering ram for Democrats, and along with Trump would end the "party of morals" false high-ground the GOP has been cultivating for decades.

  19. #19
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ma'ake View Post
    "Senator Moore" would become an invaluable marketing battering ram for Democrats, and along with Trump would end the "party of morals" false high-ground the GOP has been cultivating for decades.
    That's the primary reason they are desperate to keep him at arm's length.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  20. #20
    Changing the subject, but staying on topic:

    A Congresswoman today (apologies, I can't recall her name) said that two of her colleagues are sexual assaults. One is a D, one is an R. I will not be surprised to see plenty more of them come out of the woodwork in the coming days/months. Do not be surprised if people we admire on either side of the aisle get outed in the near future.

    The Weinstein (Cosby, Spacey, Ratner, Louis CK, etc, etc) stories are forcing an interesting and hopefully positive change in the way we support victims and call out victimizers.

    We truly live in interesting times, and I think the world will end up being better for it.

  21. #21
    I agree with NWU - the horror stories about "men behaving badly" (trying to be charitable toward my fellow Y Chromosome carriers) are causing all kinds of interesting social and individual introspection, 95% of it well justified.

    Beyond the true offenses, *some* women are claiming victimization from even untoward glances, years in the past, while more than a few men are questioning if they've done harm by doing as Jimmy Carter confessed, looking at women through lustful eyes.

    Just as the Civil Rights Act helped lay the foundation for Trump's rise and the Klan marching on Charlottesville - sans masks - there could be an eventual backlash to all this, along the lines of:

    "Y'all feel 'objectified' by red blooded American men being MEN? Well, then that's the way it's going to be! If you want status and economic security for your kin, bring your loveliest daughters for possible selection to Barron Trump's harem!"

    And they will come forth, accordingly.

  22. #22
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Interesting perspective from someone much more conservative than I am:

    What this pro-life, deeply conservative and anti-establishment Alabama voter decided about Roy Moore

    http://yellowhammernews.com/politics...ded-roy-moore/

    (Hint: He’s not voting for Moore.)

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  23. #23
    Senior Member Scorcho's Avatar
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    and a new allegation

    https://www.ksl.com/?sid=46199355&ni...-amid-uso-tour

    seems like just the tip of the iceberg with this stuff, but I'm glad people finally feel empowered enough to voice their allegations.
    Last edited by Scorcho; Yesterday at 10:51 AM.

  24. #24
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scorcho View Post
    and a new allegation

    https://www.ksl.com/?sid=46199355&ni...-amid-uso-tour

    seems like just the tip of the iceberg with this stuff, but I'm glad people finally feel empowered enough to voice their allegations.
    Does anyone else here wonder if this cascade of reports will result in people becoming desensitized to the problem? I hope that does not happen..

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  25. #25
    Administrator U-Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NorthwestUteFan View Post
    Changing the subject, but staying on topic:

    A Congresswoman today (apologies, I can't recall her name) said that two of her colleagues are sexual assaults. One is a D, one is an R. I will not be surprised to see plenty more of them come out of the woodwork in the coming days/months. Do not be surprised if people we admire on either side of the aisle get outed in the near future.

    The Weinstein (Cosby, Spacey, Ratner, Louis CK, etc, etc) stories are forcing an interesting and hopefully positive change in the way we support victims and call out victimizers.

    We truly live in interesting times, and I think the world will end up being better for it.
    It sounds like Washington may finally be getting it's so desperately needed enema.

  26. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by NorthwestUteFan View Post
    Changing the subject, but staying on topic:

    A Congresswoman today (apologies, I can't recall her name) said that two of her colleagues are sexual assaults. One is a D, one is an R. I will not be surprised to see plenty more of them come out of the woodwork in the coming days/months. Do not be surprised if people we admire on either side of the aisle get outed in the near future.

    The Weinstein (Cosby, Spacey, Ratner, Louis CK, etc, etc) stories are forcing an interesting and hopefully positive change in the way we support victims and call out victimizers.

    We truly live in interesting times, and I think the world will end up being better for it.
    In some ways yes, of course. But as lawyer, I'm pretty damn troubled by allegations of wrongdoing that occurred in 1986.


    Moore is a nutbag and having so many accusers certainly suggests wrongdoing, but as to many other allegations, are we really ruining careers over other allegations of inappropriate conduct that allegedly ocurred over 20 years ago?

    People's memories are not as good as they think they are. People recall what they want to recall about certain events. Especially those that are 20 to 30 years old.

    For lawyers, email is a great thing. Because it was made at the time and can't be erased or changed. It shouldn't surprise anybody that emails oftentimes contradict the memories of witnesses (meaning either people don't recall events well or remember what they want to remember in order to help their cause.) Emails always impress upon me how much people get facts wrong based on memory either because they are lying or don't remember well, or both.

    There will be backlash and in my opinion rightfully so. But as to those folks who have multiple accusers, it easy to find one dishonest person, but it gets a lot harder finding 6--especially when there isn't any money in it for all of them
    Last edited by Two Utes; Yesterday at 04:23 PM.

  27. #27
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  28. #28
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Last edited by LA Ute; Yesterday at 08:00 PM.

  29. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    Was it really that awful? I mean, he apologized. I'm not sure I buy the idea that someone's initial reaction to something is a window into their soul.

    Anyway, he apologized. Not sure he will be forgiven. Like any politician, he's completely replaceable.

  30. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    I agree with the article, it was a crappy apology, but if there was no witness, or no other corroborating evidence - eg, victim told others about incident, soon after the event - then where are we with he said/she said allegations?

    Body cams for everyone?

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