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Thread: The health care debate thread.

  1. #511
    Quote Originally Posted by Rocker Ute View Post
    Yeah, the hat = brains stretch was devastating.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Oh, sorry. You meant this kind of hat:


  2. #512
    So anyway, now that we've finally established Canadian superiority and the travel plans of tooblue's family...

    What has been established is there is no perfect healthcare system. I personally favor the healthcare model of the Netherlands since we are neck deep in ACA and we can't unring that bell. Mandatory basic level of insurance for all people and then you or your employer can pay for higher tiers of healthcare and long-term and end of life care. Creating this basic level of insurance will achieve goal number one which is providing basic access at an affordable cost to everyone and allow for continued private insurance and providers.

    Because aside from the cost of care, but tied to it, is the real problem is the poor and unhealthy don't have access to basic care, which means they either wait or use an emergency room as their primary care provider and then scoot the bill. Preventive care and easy access to basic services will reduce costs that hospitals are assuming and passing onto you and me. Basic service of course would not pay for tooblue's personal example of his breast augmentation because he felt sad, he'd need that next tier of coverage paid for individually.

    I also believe that everyone should have some skin in the game as the best way to reduce costs. If a hip replacement costs the same to the end consumer as a set of stitches ($500 deductible) then they utilize it the same way. I shared my 'gamma knife' example previously, when people assume the costs, suddenly a couple extra days of recovery seems a lot better than paying an extra $10k to recover slightly faster.

  3. #513
    Quote Originally Posted by Utah View Post
    We keep saying, "who will pay for it?"

    Yet, we currently pay more for healthcare and get the worst results.

    Why don't we take the money already being spent, and spend it better.

    Yeah, your taxes might go up. But your healthcare costs will go down, creating a wash, at worst.

    Odds are, costs would go down overall under single payer, because we already pay more than everyone else.
    Maybe California can be your guinea pig?......

    http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-p...525-story.html
    “Children and dogs are as necessary to the welfare of the country as Wall Street and the railroads.” -- Harry S. Truman

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  4. #514
    Quote Originally Posted by mUUser View Post
    Maybe California can be your guinea pig?......

    http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-p...525-story.html
    Awesome. Ignore the facts and just push forward on the single payer program.

    Ironically, Utah could probably do a pretty damn good job of a single payer program. But if you require this state to help carry states like California, forget it. It's a pipe dream and would be a nightmare

    I actually have some decent admiration for Governor Brown. He's an old school Democrat who still understands the need to be fiscally responsible. Swarzenegger was a train wreck. Brown has followed up with real practical governance of an almost ungovernable state.

  5. #515
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    What the CBO’s “Uninsured” Score Really Means

    It’s worth reiterating that should there be a drastic rise in uninsured Americans, it won’t be because the AHCA destroys their health insurance plans or makes coverage unattainable, it will be because in the absence of the individual mandate, many will simply opt out of health insurance entirely. At least until the market makes it more affordable.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    "Nine tenths of wisdom consists of being wise in time."
    --Theodore Roosevelt


  6. #516
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    What the CBO’s “Uninsured” Score Really Means
    I'm sure that is true. To the extent it is healthy people choosing to not purchase health insurance, that to will increase the cost of insurance for those who remain.

    I can't imagine that the House version has any hope of surviving the Senate. If it does, it almost guarantees some change of Senate/House composition at the mid-term election. One of the problems with these partisan endeavors like Obamacare and Trumpcare (for lack of a better term) is that they are bound to be repealed and replaced at every election turn thereby preventing any serious longterm solution to both the rising costs of healthcare and the rising costs of health insurance. As a 60 year old, single payer, the increased costs of Obamacare have been significant. However, the CBO score of Trumpcare for people in my age/circumstances are downright frightening.
    Last edited by UTEopia; 05-25-2017 at 05:12 PM.

  7. #517
    Quote Originally Posted by UTEopia View Post
    I'm sure that is true. To the extent it is healthy people choosing to not purchase health insurance, that to will increase the cost of insurance for those who remain.

    I can't imagine that the House version has any hope of surviving the Senate. If it does, it almost guarantees some change of Senate/House composition at the mid-term election. One of the problems with these partisan endeavors like Obamacare and Trumpcare (for lack of a better term) is that they are bound to be repealed and replaced at every election turn thereby preventing any serious longterm solution to both the rising costs of healthcare and the rising costs of health insurance. As a 60 year old, single payer, the increased costs of Obamacare have been significant. However, the CBO score of Trumpcare for people in my age/circumstances are downright frightening.
    As a country we need to get over this notion of a single bill that is going to fix things in one fell swoop. We'd be a lot smarter to pass a bunch of individual smaller bills that address individual problems and then it will be easier to tweak things going forward.

    I was just thinking this because we recently completed a two-year project and I remember sitting at the start wondering how we would get this 36 part problem fixed and completed on scope, budget and time. We had to segment out the goals and problems into the 36 different parts, prioritize them and identify the easiest ones to fix/complete. This was all while keeping the existing systems functioning and swapping out parts. We joked it is like changing tires on a moving vehicle on the freeway. Then we tackled them individually and got the job done.

    So why can't we do this with healthcare. One issue - tort reform. Tackle that. Another issue is increasing cost of care - address that, compensation rates, etc etc.

    So let's talk about the good of ACA: Two obvious ones are allowing kids up to 26 to stay on parents plans. The other is covering pre-existing conditions. Keep that stuff. Something that is good but needs tweaking is the covered preventive care visits. Maybe that is the 'single-payer' start. We agree that everybody should be able to get two basic preventive care doctors visits a year in America for free. Then the dude with a cold goes and visits the doc before it ends up as pneumonia and an ER visit.

    Keep on movin' down the line. It is a solvable problem it is just we are passing these bills that nobody has read or understands because it is too complex.

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