Page 12 of 21 FirstFirst ... 28910111213141516 ... LastLast
Results 331 to 360 of 627

Thread: The health care debate thread.

  1. #331
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Los Angeles, California
    Posts
    17,726
    This is by an advocacy group, so two grains of salt are necessary. It does lay out the case generally for Tom price.

    https://d4pcfoundation.org/tom-price...uman-services/


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  2. #332
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    This is by an advocacy group, so two grains of salt are necessary. It does lay out the case generally for Tom price.

    https://d4pcfoundation.org/tom-price...uman-services/


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Apart from the insider trading, that is.

  3. #333
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Los Angeles, California
    Posts
    17,726
    Quote Originally Posted by NorthwestUteFan View Post
    Apart from the insider trading, that is.
    I think that is a nothingburger. Reportedly (and who knows, among us mere citizens?) it was a trade done by his broker to balance his account and Price didn't even know about it. Also, he made about $2500 on the deal. We'll see. Maybe it is a somethingburger.

    I've met Price and he is not a doofus. Far from it. Trump could have nominated someone terrible. Price was a fine doctor, made money, quit and ran a public health clinic (where he saw how the poorest of the poor struggled to get care), and his plans -- unlike some others that Repubs have advanced -- is focused on enabling people to get coverage and decent care. We could do a lot worse than him and his approach, if he's allowed to advance it.
    Last edited by LA Ute; 01-22-2017 at 06:33 PM.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  4. #334
    Administrator U-Ute's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Salt Lake City
    Posts
    5,526
    An alternate view on Price. It seems even handed.

    http://www.npr.org/sections/health-s...lth-care-ideas

    Price's plan offers fixed tax credits so people can buy their own insurance on the private market. The credit starts at $1,200 a year and rises with age, but isn't adjusted for income. Everyone receives the same credit whether they are rich or poor. People on Medicaid, Medicare, the military health plan known as Tricare, or the Veterans Affairs' health plan could opt instead for the tax credit to buy private insurance.

    Price advocates for expansion of health savings accounts, which allow people to save money before taxes to pay for health care. This includes allowing people who are covered by government health programs including Medicare and the VA to contribute to health savings accounts to pay for premiums and copayments. These proposals are included in Ryan's plan.

    People with existing medical conditions couldn't be denied coverage under Price's plan as long as they had continuous insurance for 18 months prior to selecting a new policy. If they didn't, then they could be denied coverage for that condition for up to 18 months after buying a new plan.

    The Price proposal limits the amount of money companies can deduct from their taxes for employee health insurance expenses. Companies can deduct up to $20,000 for a family health insurance plan and $8,000 for an individual. The goal is to discourage companies from offering overly generous insurance benefits to their workers. Ryan's plan proposes a cap on the employer tax deduction but doesn't specify the level of the cap.

    States would get federal money to create so-called high-risk pools under Price's plan. These are government-run health plans for people with existing medical conditions who can't get affordable health insurance on the private market. Critics say high-risk pools have been tried in as many as 34 states and largely failed because they were routinely underfunded
    The biggest problem I have is that $1200/year doesn't even buy a month of insurance for an average family. Unless each person in the family gets the tax credit (children included).

    Would the tax cap on corporate insurance policies cover the cost of this? I don't know.

  5. #335
    Administrator U-Ute's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Salt Lake City
    Posts
    5,526
    Apparently congress can't figure out what Trump was trying to do with his Executive Order concerning the ACA.

    http://www.vox.com/policy-and-politi...care-confusing

    Key players in the Affordable Care Act debate are still struggling to make heads or tails of what it actually means. This is what Sen. Susan Collins (R-ME) told some reporters on Capitol Hill today:

    I think that the executive order is very confusing and that we really don’t know yet what the impact will be. Until there is a secretary in place who can interpret the regulations or do the rulemaking to rescind regulations, it’s very difficult to say what the impact of the executive order is going to be. As someone who, regardless of who is president, has always felt that Congress should set the rules and write the laws, we need legislation. There are some improvements that can be made through the executive order process and through the regulatory process, but that by no means takes away the need for comprehensive legislation.

    I had two experts look at the order Friday night, and they made the case that it was a political scream but a practical whisper — something that sets the tone for health policy in the Trump era but doesn’t make any substantive changes quite yet.

    Former Republican Senate staffer Rodney Whitlock described it to the New York Times as “something incredibly cryptic that nobody understands.”

  6. #336
    Administrator U-Ute's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Salt Lake City
    Posts
    5,526
    Predictably, Republicans having a hard time coming up with a replacement for the ACA.

    http://khn.org/news/at-party-retreat...law-consensus/

  7. #337
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Los Angeles, California
    Posts
    17,726

    The health care debate thread.

    With the release of this recording we already know a lot more about the Republicans' internal health care policy debates in 2017 than we ever knew about the Democrats' 2009 discussions about the Affordable Care Act -- to the extent there were any.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...32c_story.html



    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Last edited by LA Ute; 01-28-2017 at 08:24 AM.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  8. #338
    Administrator U-Ute's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Salt Lake City
    Posts
    5,526
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    With the release of this recording we already know a lot more about the Republicans' internal health care policy debates in 2017 than we ever knew about the Democrats' 2009 discussions about the Affordable Care Act -- to the extent there were any.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...32c_story.html



    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    This confirms a lot of what I thought: the situation is so complicated it will absolutely generate losers if they try to change it: either from people losing insurance coverage or from a fiscal responsibility standpoint. Plus, any changes they make, they get to own (ie: "TrumpCare").

    All of that takes too much political backbone. The easier path will be to keep what we have and continue to blame ObamaCare for all of our problems.

  9. #339
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Los Angeles, California
    Posts
    17,726
    If true this is interesting. I blame Putin.

    Obamascare: 60% of online Obamacare defenders 'paid to post' hits on critics

    http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/ob...rticle/2615774

    Or maybe George W. Bush. Or Trump.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  10. #340
    I'm interested in the take of those who lean right on what is going on with the GOP and the ACA. The GOP fought the ACA prior to its passing and have railed against it for the past 8 years. However, when it finally becomes time to doing something about it, they really have nothing cohesive to offer. Admittedly, the health care cost crisis in the U.S. is a complex issue, but I wonder if the main problem many in the GOP had with the ACA is that it came from Obama.

    I understand that the ACA had its issues. A lot of people did not like the individual mandate. I do. Although the penalties were too small to be effective, the subsidies allowed some people to obtain insurance and to participate in paying part of the costs of their healthcare whereas before, they went to those hospitals that were required to care for them and who then passed the costs to those with insurance or the government.

    I'm sure everyone has their own example, but the ACA allowed our family to obtain health insurance for a 62 year old sibling who had not had health insurance for over 25 years because of pre-existing conditions from significant health problems that limited his health and his earning capacity. He and his wife, who is on SSI disability, currently earn about $45,000 a year. She is on medicare and has been for 20 years. He qualified for an ACA monthly premium reduction of about $150. The ACA provided about 20 different insurance options ranging in premium from about $300 per month (after reduction) with a $10,000 deductible to a high end policy with a $760 per month premium in 2016 and a $2,000 deductible. We kept the same policy for $828 per month in 2017. We used the shit out of that policy in 2016 and are doing so again in 2017. He has heart problems, lung problems, diabetes and we are finally getting to the point where the doctors believe they have figured out what is going on. It was a lengthy and discouraging process, but one that could only be pursued with health insurance. He now has a chance to live 15 to 20 more years in better physical condition than he has lived the past 20 years. While I cannot be certain, I believe that if things had continued to proceed as they had, he would not have made it to his 65th birthday.

    The more important question is what do those who lean right believe should be done about the health care cost crisis? Do you believe adults living in the U.S. is entitled to quality health care or do you believe that they should have access to quality health care if they can afford it? What about children? If you believe that only those who can afford healthcare should receive it, are you simply saying that you do not care if those who cannot afford healthcare and their children should simply not receive it? I hope nobody is in that camp, but regardless, how do we (the rest of us who can afford it) ensure that those without means and their children receive healthcare.

    LA, I know you are a smart guy and I believe you are also compassionate. Take a crack at this.

  11. #341
    Administrator U-Ute's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Salt Lake City
    Posts
    5,526
    I've been wondering about the sane right wing take on this as well.

    I have realized in the recent days that there is a third option that seems the most likely road the GOP will take: Make a few minor tweaks and present it as an overhaul then claim the successes.

  12. #342



    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  13. #343
    In new film 'Logan', Canadian citizen Wolverine will use only his healthcare plan to heal:

    http://www.cbc.ca/comedy/in-new-film...heal-1.4008223

  14. #344
    Quote Originally Posted by UTEopia View Post
    but I wonder if the main problem many in the GOP had with the ACA is that it came from Obama.

    LA, I know you are a smart guy and I believe you are also compassionate. Take a crack at this.
    I am neither smart nor compassionate, but the main problem with the ACA for conservatives was not that it came from Obama. They just don't like it and believe we would have been better off without it. The reason they can't do anything about it now is that it is in place. Once an entitlement has been granted, it's next to impossible to take it away. They/we are stuck with it, for better or worse.

  15. #345
    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    I am neither smart nor compassionate, but the main problem with the ACA for conservatives was not that it came from Obama. They just don't like it and believe we would have been better off without it. The reason they can't do anything about it now is that it is in place. Once an entitlement has been granted, it's next to impossible to take it away. They/we are stuck with it, for better or worse.
    Maybe, but many Repubs and conservatives loved Obamacare when it was Romneycare and when the Heritage Foundation first proposed it.

  16. #346
    Administrator U-Ute's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Salt Lake City
    Posts
    5,526
    Quote Originally Posted by concerned View Post
    Maybe, but many Repubs and conservatives loved Obamacare when it was Romneycare and when the Heritage Foundation first proposed it.
    Now, to be fair, Romney care was a state sponsored plan. That's one of the major issues the GOP has with Obamacare is that it is a federal plan.

    It is one of the few real objections that I don't have a problem with. If the GOP can structure something that allows states to solve the problem, I'm fine with that.

  17. #347
    I think a core problem in getting our heads around this is the notion of it healthcare is a right or a privilege.

    If it is a human right than a government mandated single payer socialized system makes sense. If it is a privilege then privatizing and letting people fight it out makes sense.

    I can say for me I'm shifting more towards it being a right based off of the notion that if we as a society have the capacity to care for others we should do it.

    I got screwed by Obamacare, but I find it impossible to believe we can unwind it and replace it. We are slowly sliding towards socialized medicine. Maybe that's not a bad thing.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  18. #348
    Quote Originally Posted by Rocker Ute View Post
    I think a core problem in getting our heads around this is the notion of it healthcare is a right or a privilege.

    If it is a human right than a government mandated single payer socialized system makes sense. If it is a privilege then privatizing and letting people fight it out makes sense.

    I can say for me I'm shifting more towards it being a right based off of the notion that if we as a society have the capacity to care for others we should do it.

    I got screwed by Obamacare, but I find it impossible to believe we can unwind it and replace it. We are slowly sliding towards socialized medicine. Maybe that's not a bad thing.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    No, not a bad thing. But as someone who lives with (and greatly appreciates) socialized medicine, it has it's drawbacks:

    Last edited by tooblue; 03-08-2017 at 12:24 PM.

  19. #349
    Quote Originally Posted by Rocker Ute View Post
    I think a core problem in getting our heads around this is the notion of it healthcare is a right or a privilege.

    If it is a human right than a government mandated single payer socialized system makes sense. If it is a privilege then privatizing and letting people fight it out makes sense.

    I can say for me I'm shifting more towards it being a right based off of the notion that if we as a society have the capacity to care for others we should do it.

    I got screwed by Obamacare, but I find it impossible to believe we can unwind it and replace it. We are slowly sliding towards socialized medicine. Maybe that's not a bad thing.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    ThemoreI
    The more I look into Germany's healthcare, the more I like it. No "for profit" insurance companies. Everyone pays about 8% into a sickness fund. If you make over $72,000 (approx) you can opt out and get your own private insurance. The government helps negotiate prices (this is a MUST for us).

    The republicans have screwed themselves over, and in all their ranting and raving they have painted themselves into a corner where they are left with no tools to fix the problem, because they've yelled about how terrible all the tools are for the last 8 years.

    They've essentially turned themselves into a party with no experience, no leadership, no idea how government works and no idea how to fix any of this.

    It's almost comical to watch, and this is coming for a guy who voted for McCain and Romney.

  20. #350
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Los Angeles, California
    Posts
    17,726
    The LA Times story today on the bill's impact on Medi-Cal (our version of Medicaid).

    http://www.latimes.com/local/califor...307-story.html

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  21. #351
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    The LA Times story today on the bill's impact on Medi-Cal (our version of Medicaid).

    http://www.latimes.com/local/califor...307-story.html
    There is also an op ed in the LA Times by Nicholas Bagley, a U of Michigan law school professor and nephew of Pat Bagley. He proposes that the state pick up the Obomacare funding mechanism.

    http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed...307-story.html

  22. #352
    When ACA was being formed, the Democrats thought they would get at least *some* support from Republicans, given the ACA basis on the Heritage Foundation design and Romneycare.

    Instead, the Republicans were impressively uniform in opposing it, similar to the spectacle we're seeing today in how different GOP factions are opposed to different parts of what the GOP proposes now. The key part is the GOP is "opposed". The "party of no" cannibalizes itself.

    Hardcore conservatives want zero federal funding for the working poor. But the working poor are growing in numbers, and Republicans seem completely unaware that Millennials are 20% worse off than their parents were, at the same stage in life.

    One interesting national example is France, where everyone has a basic insurance package provided by the government, but this basic package is insufficient to meet everyone's needs, and so having a supplemental policy is the norm, and private insurance compete in this market. This may be a system to consider in the future, perhaps after a whip-saw reaction to Trump and the GOP's (presumed) inability to heal seismic economic problems that resulted in Trump's rise.

    UTEopia's right, though, about America's high cost of healthcare being a complex issue.

    From an epidemiology standpoint, a lot of the chronic, lifestyle based problems (obesity, high blood pressure, cardio issues, etc) are predictable, based on our degree of economic inequality, which is rising. Human beings are social creatures, and as they sense they're moving down the ladder, or struggling to rise, the resulting stress leads to self-medication, seeking comfort food after a crappy day at work, etc.

    Think this is a bunch of hocus-pocus, liberal bullshit? UK epidemiologist Richard Wilkinson was able to explain healthcare measure difference *between* states, based on economic data: https://www.ted.com/talks/richard_wilkinson

  23. #353
    What are some cons for "non-profit" insurance companies? I can't seem to find any.

  24. #354
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Los Angeles, California
    Posts
    17,726
    I'm sorry I can't get into this discussion. I live it too much every day.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  25. #355
    Administrator U-Ute's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Salt Lake City
    Posts
    5,526
    Quote Originally Posted by Utah View Post
    What are some cons for "non-profit" insurance companies? I can't seem to find any.
    That's easy: there's no incentive to innovate. No incentive to get the "best and brightest".

    I still contend that the problem isn't the insurance companies, it's the big hospitals and how they are run.

  26. #356
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    I'm sorry I can't get into this discussion. I live it too much every day.

    One question, b/c I am sick of it too: you have criticized Obamacare b/c it did not include any mechanism to reduce health care costs. Does Trumpcare do that?

    also, for anybody who knows: I understand that Congress cannot "replace" Obamacare through the reconciliation process, but has to use the full legislative process, which could be subject to 60-vote filibuster. Can congress repeal Obamacare through reconciliation? Can they go back to the original strategy, which was to repeal immediately and then figure out a replacement over the next two to four years or never? Is the only reason they are not doing that political rather than procedural?

  27. #357
    Administrator U-Ute's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Salt Lake City
    Posts
    5,526
    Quote Originally Posted by concerned View Post
    One question, b/c I am sick of it too: you have criticized Obamacare b/c it did not include any mechanism to reduce health care costs. Does Trumpcare do that?

    also, for anybody who knows: I understand that Congress cannot "replace" Obamacare through the reconciliation process, but has to use the full legislative process, which could be subject to 60-vote filibuster. Can congress repeal Obamacare through reconciliation? Can they go back to the original strategy, which was to repeal immediately and then figure out a replacement over the next two to four years or never? Is the only reason they are not doing that political rather than procedural?
    Wait, so they can repeal using reconciliation, but requires a full vote for a replacement that the Democrats will most surely block?

    That's their plan. Then they can blame the Democrats.

  28. #358
    Quote Originally Posted by U-Ute View Post
    Wait, so they can repeal using reconciliation, but requires a full vote for a replacement that the Democrats will most surely block?

    That's their plan. Then they can blame the Democrats.
    If a couple of Senate repubs refuse to repeal without replace (Collins, Portman, Cotton, others maybe), they cant even do that through reconciliation I would think.

  29. #359
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    I'm sorry I can't get into this discussion. I live it too much every day.
    No, that's too easy. Gotta say what you think.

  30. #360
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Los Angeles, California
    Posts
    17,726
    Quote Originally Posted by Irving Washington View Post
    No, that's too easy. Gotta say what you think.
    There's too much detail to explain. But I will try. When I feel up to it.

    I was quoted in the LA Times yesterday. Did you see that?

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •