Page 2 of 19 FirstFirst 12345612 ... LastLast
Results 31 to 60 of 569

Thread: The health care debate thread.

  1. #31
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Los Angeles, California
    Posts
    15,373
    Jim Lott is the executive vice president of the Hospital Association of Southern California, where he is essentially the chief “policy guy.” Here’s his latest short blog post about how California is trying to implement its insurance exchange:

    http://www.hasc.org/blog-entry/covered-california-gets-creative

    The first comment to Jim’s post is an example of the more pessimistic view we hear expressed. Lots of fireworks about all this.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  2. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Mormon Red Death View Post
    wow... talk about giving them the benefit of the doubt. Obama and his admin underestimated the first law of insurance.
    That would be a major oversite if true given that the whole point was for people to use the insurance.
    “The world is so exquisite with so much love and moral depth, that there is no reason to deceive ourselves with pretty stories for which there's little good evidence. Far better it seems to me, in our vulnerability, is to look death in the eye and to be grateful every day for the brief but magnificent opportunity that life provides.”
    Carl Sagan

  3. #33
    Administrator U-Ute's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Salt Lake City
    Posts
    4,761
    I don't think that Obamacare is anywhere near what we want to have in the long run, but he induced change into a system that was stuck in a state of "paralysis by analysis" - ie: we couldn't figure out what we wanted, so we did nothing.

    This at least makes changes to help us decide what does and doesn't work.

  4. #34
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Los Angeles, California
    Posts
    15,373
    Quote Originally Posted by U-Ute View Post
    I don't think that Obamacare is anywhere near what we want to have in the long run, but he induced change into a system that was stuck in a state of "paralysis by analysis" - ie: we couldn't figure out what we wanted, so we did nothing.

    This at least makes changes to help us decide what does and doesn't work.
    I think this is true. I'd be more sympathetic to Republican complaints if they had EVER taken serious steps to address the problems in the system.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  5. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by U-Ute View Post
    I don't think that Obamacare is anywhere near what we want to have in the long run, but he induced change into a system that was stuck in a state of "paralysis by analysis" - ie: we couldn't figure out what we wanted, so we did nothing.

    This at least makes changes to help us decide what does and doesn't work.
    The problem is that once government gets involved, it seems damn near impossible to get government out. Obamacare was ruled constitutional as a tax and the government is hell bent on keeping taxes in place. It may reduce the rate of taxes from time to time, but how many times has a tax been repealed?
    "Ninety feet between home plate and first base may be the closest man has ever come to perfection." - Red Smith

  6. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by UtahDan View Post
    That would be a major oversite if true given that the whole point was for people to use the insurance.
    The point was too have insurance. Not to use it.

    Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2
    "Be a philosopher. A man can compromise to gain a point. It has become apparent that a man can, within limits, follow his inclinations within the arms of the Church if he does so discreetly." - The Walking Drum

    "And here’s what life comes down to—not how many years you live, but how many of those years are filled with bullshit that doesn’t amount to anything to satisfy the requirements of some dickhead you’ll never get the pleasure of punching in the face." – Adam Carolla

  7. #37
    Administrator U-Ute's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Salt Lake City
    Posts
    4,761
    Quote Originally Posted by GarthUte View Post
    The problem is that once government gets involved, it seems damn near impossible to get government out. Obamacare was ruled constitutional as a tax and the government is hell bent on keeping taxes in place. It may reduce the rate of taxes from time to time, but how many times has a tax been repealed?
    Normally I agree, but in this case, the federal government was already subsidizing hospitals to help pay for health care for people who don't have insurance. So you have already been paying that tax, but you didn't know you were paying it. Or at least you didn't know how much you were paying for it since it gets lumped in with a much larger line item in the budget.

    At least this is a tax we can put a number on and know how much we are spending on it.

  8. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by U-Ute View Post
    Normally I agree, but in this case, the federal government was already subsidizing hospitals to help pay for health care for people who don't have insurance. So you have already been paying that tax, but you didn't know you were paying it. Or at least you didn't know how much you were paying for it since it gets lumped in with a much larger line item in the budget.

    At least this is a tax we can put a number on and know how much we are spending on it.
    That doesn't make me feel any better.
    "Ninety feet between home plate and first base may be the closest man has ever come to perfection." - Red Smith

  9. #39
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Los Angeles, California
    Posts
    15,373
    Why become a doctor?

    Recently, I was having a discussion with a colleague about being a doctor. She confided in me that if someone asked her about becoming a doctor, she would tell him or her to become a nurse practitioner. After reading the emotional open letter to our policymakers in Washington DC, it may sound like a reasonable suggestion. After all, why go into this much debt and spend so much time in training if your prospects are not much better? More recently, the New York Times article points out job prospects for radiology trainees are thinning, meaning the well known “ROAD” (Radiology, Ophthalmology, Anesthesiology, and Dermatology) to success may soon become a road to nowhere if there are no jobs....

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  10. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    I'm sure 99% of the country would happily take on $200,000 in low interest debt in return for a 6 figure salary.
    So why don't more people do it?

    It was a career path I considered, but decided it wasn't worth it, the 200k debt not even factoring into the decision.

  11. #41
    Ok, I'm done being contentious. I just read part of the article linked and what I read it was talking about going into debt and all that not being worth it anymore.

  12. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by tooblue View Post
    I am a universal health care advocate. The tax burden is heavy but, in my estimation, it is worth it. My family greatly benefits from access to universal health care. The article linked below, however, highlights some of the potential problems with the system, especially in smaller or, rural communities:

    A decade of pain: The only foot surgeon in Nova Scotia has waiting list 3,500 names long

    http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/02...00-names-long/

    This is foot surgery. It is also commonplace for those that need serious cardiovascular procedures such as stents, bypasses, etc. to face long waiting lists as well. I have had discussions with many US doctors over the years that have told me it isn't uncommon for them to perform these type of procedures on wealthier Canadians that have been put on 6+ month waiting lists that are concerned about dying before it is their turn. Cancer care in Canada is below US standards as well.

    Universal healthcare works great for basic, primary care type of conditions such colds, flu, broken bones, etc. As you get older and need more specialized care, there are a lot of problems such as those mentioned in this article. I'm not sure many of us will be singing the Universal Healthcare model works great for me tune as we get older and find fewer specialists (oncologists, cardiologists, etc.) and need access to newer and potentially lifesaving procedures and technology.

    I fear it will only be the very wealthy that will be able to afford access to top notch care in a universal healthcare system. The rest of us will have such a big tax burden, we will not have the income or means to pay for our own private insurance if we prefer.

    I don't pretend to have all the answers as to how to fix the spiraling healthcare cost problem. It is a complex, multifaceted issue for which there are no easy answers. Unfortunately, I am pretty sure Obamacare has ironically accelerated the pace of rising costs considerably. I have read articles just in the past few weeks stating that insurers in many states are raising premiums 15-50% this coming year to be able to cover the costs associated with the requirements and regulations in this bill.

    I would have preferred an incremental approach implementing some of the ideas already mentioned rather than the huge Obamacare overhaul and associated costs we will now be facing. Obamacare or not, tort reform and caps on punitive damages should have been a part of any healthcare reform bill IMO. While by no means the only problem contributing to out of control healthcare costs, doctors practicing defensive medicine and ordering thousands of unnecessary tests and procedures each year doesn't help the situation.
    Last edited by #1 Utefan; 04-01-2013 at 06:28 PM.

  13. #43
    All hail the HDHP!

    I've had a high deductible plan for about 6 years now because we are essentially non-utilizers with the occasional check-up or cold.

    Last month we were worried my 2yo had broken her arm. A late night visit to the ER and a few x-rays later we found out everything was fine but I cringed at what the bill would look like. It came in at just over $100.

    Two weeks ago my son is complaining about ear pain, we take him in, doc says it isn't infected. 10 days later he is screaming in pain, we take him back in, burst ear drum it is so infected. Doesn't think straight amoxicillin will do it, prescribes a stronger antibiotic that is $120.

    Get the bill for the first 5 minute visit $145. Get the second bill, another $145. So we are into $400+ for an ear infection in a clinic visit, and $100 in an ER visit.

    I told my wife that were it not crooked it would make financial sense for healthy people like us to drop insurance and just use the ER and our primary care provider.

    Meanwhile premiums for me and my employees continue to go up 10-20% a year.

    Things are bassackward in the system, and as a person formerly in health care I'm not seeing much in the Affordable Care Act that makes things more affordable for people like us not addressing the most obvious problems.

  14. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    It is totally asinine when people say it's as good or even preferable to be a nurse practitioner or physician assistant instead of a physician. Completely ridiculous. What the hell kind of person wants to be subordinate and only take care of patients under the supervision of somebody else for an entire career?

    I see these surveys with unhappy doctors and I honestly don't get it. Most people I work with love their job and really what's not to like? It's very meaningful and important work, great income, 100% job security unless you commit a crime. These whiny doctors who complain about their job are idiots.

  15. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by CardiacCoug View Post
    It is totally asinine when people say it's as good or even preferable to be a nurse practitioner or physician assistant instead of a physician. Completely ridiculous. What the hell kind of person wants to be subordinate and only take care of patients under the supervision of somebody else for an entire career?

    I see these surveys with unhappy doctors and I honestly don't get it. Most people I work with love their job and really what's not to like? It's very meaningful and important work, great income, 100% job security unless you commit a crime. These whiny doctors who complain about their job are idiots.
    Fully agree. It isn't for everyone, but i wouldn't do anything different for many of the reasons stated by cardiac, and several others he hasn't listed:

    Live just about anywhere you could desire.
    Many other pathways for a career besides clinical work.
    Instant excuse for any traffic violation.
    “Man cannot discover new oceans unless he has the courage to lose sight of the shore.”
    André Gide

  16. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Jarid in Cedar View Post
    Fully agree. It isn't for everyone, but i wouldn't do anything different for many of the reasons stated by cardiac, and several others he hasn't listed:

    Live just about anywhere you could desire.
    Many other pathways for a career besides clinical work.
    Instant excuse for any traffic violation.
    Yep. I saw some survey recently that said something like 70% of physicians say they were underpaid and believe they would have made more money in a non-medical field. Made me wonder what kind of fantasy world those docs are living in.

    Another huge intangible benefit of being a physician is being able to help family members and friends with health problems and figuring out the health care system and which docs to see. I could go on and on about how happy I am with my career. From time to time I have undergrad students who want to hang out with me and when I tell them how great my job is they usually say something like, "Really? Every other doctor is telling my how horrible it is and how much they regret their career choice." I find it totally bizarre how negative a lot of docs are. Just proves that no matter how good people have it it's still easy for so many people to wallow in misery.

  17. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Ma'ake View Post
    Healthcare is an interesting market, because when people need it, they're far less likely to shop dispassionately, as you might when you're evaluating a purchase of a dishwasher, for example.

    "My mother has breast cancer, and I've found a place that offers 40% off radiation treatments this month!" It doesn't quite work that way, neither does it work for emergencies, like who does price shopping for bypass operations while they're in a medical helicopter?

    When there's something wrong with your body, you entire being, your existence, is at stake. And when we see the same level of distress in others, we empathize, which is why Reagan signed the law that mandates emergency rooms treat people who need emergency care, regardless of their ablity to pay. This single law has caused a great distortion in the whole market, with attendant cost shifting, the cat-and-mouse games people play when they go to the ER, etc.

    If we wanted to truly incentivize the free market in healthcare, give hospitals the ablity to turn people away who don't have insurance or enough $$$$ on the spot to pay for their treatment. Sure, this will result in some people dying on the front lawns of emergency rooms, but it will send the message to everyone else that they need to have insurance, and THEN the cost shifting problem will start to evaporate.

    The biggest problem with this is it's totally against what Jesus taught, and when it comes down to it, Americans have a hard time being brutally Darwinistic.

    It's hard - and maybe unrealistic - to fully apply the free market to healthcare.
    Exactly this (I think I've posted almost an identical description before). As long as the mandated ER provision is in place, universal/single payer health care will be the eventual outcome.

    Healthcare is incredibly complex and virtually every physician, outside her own area of expertise, is poorly equipped to make her own personal acute health care decisions. The lay public is even worse off to the extent that individuals can rarely make TIMELY informed Heath care decisions despite best attempts to explain benefits risks, etc. The huge market for quackery and health care fraud is further evidence that self educated health consumers tend to make VERY POOR decisions with their discretionary health care spending even in non-acute settings.

    there are however some very generalize able and easily learned lifestyle modifications and preventive care actions that could be incentivized effectively in a single payer system with substantial reductions to the largest contributors to overall costs (I.e diabetes/cardiovascular disease/effective cancer screening programs).

  18. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    Not to mention fellow ward members!
    My wife and I find that to be unethical. My wife won't fill RXs for those that do. I'm surprised many docs are still willing to take the medicolegal risk (I've seen a few bad mistakes by friends/neighbors dabbling outside of their specialty or after they were effectively retired). Fortunately, I can just tell friends/relatives to see their regular physician or check back with me when they're dead (pathologist humor).

  19. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by jrj84105 View Post
    My wife and I find that to be unethical. My wife won't fill RXs for those that do. I'm surprised many docs are still willing to take the medicolegal risk (I've seen a few bad mistakes by friends/neighbors dabbling outside of their specialty or after they were effectively retired). Fortunately, I can just tell friends/relatives to see their regular physician or check back with me when they're dead (pathologist humor).
    Is your wife a pharmacist or something?

    I find her refusal to fill a valid prescription unethical. She won't fill one if a doc wrote it for a ward member? Bizarre. How does she determine something like that?

  20. #50
    There are some differences state-to-state but it is pretty much universally within the pharmacist's discretion. In some state's law such a prescription-for a family member and especially for controlled substances- is NOT a valid prescription.

    generally, the distinction would be (assuming you're a cardiologist) that a prescription for atenolol would be filled, but if you wrote for adderall, OxyContin, etc for your wife, she would decline to fill because you would be prescribing controlled substances outside of your practice setting in a situation with a high probability of diversion (writing a bogus RX for a spouse/household member is a good/common way for drug addicted docs to divert- really this is the main reason why docs should avoid this practice).
    Last edited by jrj84105; 04-02-2013 at 11:09 PM.

  21. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by jrj84105 View Post
    There are some differences state-to-state but it is pretty much universally within the pharmacist's discretion. In some state's law such a prescription-for a family member and especially for controlled substances- is NOT a valid prescription.

    generally, the distinction would be (assuming you're a cardiologist) that a prescription for atenolol would be filled, but if you wrote for adderall, OxyContin, etc for your wife, she would decline to fill because you would be prescribing controlled substances outside of your practice setting in a situation with a high probability of diversion (writing a bogus RX for a spouse/household member is a good/common way for drug addicted docs to divert- really this is the main reason why docs should avoid this practice).
    Sure, it would be idiotic for a doc to try to prescribe a controlled substance for a family member. That has nothing to do with writing scripts for ward members with medical problems, which was the post you responded to calling it unethical.

  22. #52
    Administrator U-Ute's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Salt Lake City
    Posts
    4,761
    Quote Originally Posted by Rocker Ute View Post
    All hail the HDHP!

    I've had a high deductible plan for about 6 years now because we are essentially non-utilizers with the occasional check-up or cold.

    Last month we were worried my 2yo had broken her arm. A late night visit to the ER and a few x-rays later we found out everything was fine but I cringed at what the bill would look like. It came in at just over $100
    It's only been a month and you've only received one bill? I wouldn't exhale yet. By my reckoning, you should receive 3: hospital, ER doctor, and radiologist.

    When my wife went into the ER for kidney stones last year, it took about 3 hours to schedule the CT scanner, perform the CT scan, and to have someone read it (we didn't know it was kidney stones when we walked in). Roughly the same routine your boy received. We were occupying an ER bay during the whole process.

    IIRC, the bill from the hospital to the insurance company charged around $2000 just for the ER bay usage - or roughly $700-$800 an hour. The total bill was around $4000. I think another $1000 was the CT scan, and the rest was ER doctor, radiologist, and IV medications (pain management, hydration, flomax, etc), and miscellaneous.

    Buy far the most reasonable were the bills from the doctors themselves. Somewhere in the neighborhood of $500 combined I think.

  23. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by U-Ute View Post
    When my wife went into the ER for kidney stones last year,....

    Bless her everlovin' heart. Once you've had one kidney stone, there's no mistaking the second one, and will save you lots of time and loot on a diagnosis.
    “Children and dogs are as necessary to the welfare of the country as Wall Street and the railroads.” -- Harry S. Truman

    "You never soar so high as when you stoop down to help a child or an animal." -- Jewish Proverb

    "Three-time Pro Bowler Eric Weddle the most versatile, and maybe most intelligent, safety in the game." -- SI, 9/7/15, p. 107.

  24. #54
    Administrator U-Ute's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Salt Lake City
    Posts
    4,761
    Yeah, she had another one a few months later.

    Nothing since then, thank heavens.

  25. #55
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Los Angeles, California
    Posts
    15,373
    The reality of implementing the Affordable Care Act is sinking in.

    President Obama is eager to build public support for his health care overhaul in the few months remaining before its implementation, but waning enthusiasm from Democrats threatens his effort right out of the gate.


    Two-thirds of Democrats now believe Obama's health care reforms will either hurt them personally or have no effect on their daily lives, a Quinnipiac University poll released Thursday shows. In comparison, just 27 percent of Democratic respondents said the reforms would help them.
    I don't mean this as a political comment, because the law is the reality now and isn't going to be repealed. It is full of problems, however (largely because of the way it was rammed through -- OK, there's my political comment!) and we are going to have to fix those as we put this thing into action. There are going to be lots of bumps in the road.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  26. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by CardiacCoug View Post
    Sure, it would be idiotic for a doc to try to prescribe a controlled substance for a family member. That has nothing to do with writing scripts for ward members with medical problems, which was the post you responded to calling it unethical.
    Real life example of more banal Rx for acquaintance:
    Antibiotics RX'd for minor infection to teen girl by family friend. Teen girl did not reveal that she was sexually active and also taking OCP (being filled at pharmacy different than family pharmacy). Girl gets pregnant. Successfully sues pharmacist for child support for not counseling concerning drug interaction (OCP was not in med profile). Family friend who wrote the RX was not sued.

    Do you take a complete medication and drug history prior to writing for ward members? After the fact, do you inform the primary provider that script was written so that the med profile can be updated? Do you review pertinent laboratory data when available? Do you chart the interaction so that it is part of the patient's medical record and available for review by the insurer or future treating physicians? If not, then you are bypassing systems for safety and accountability which is unethical.

  27. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by jrj84105 View Post
    Real life example of more banal Rx for acquaintance:
    Antibiotics RX'd for minor infection to teen girl by family friend. Teen girl did not reveal that she was sexually active and also taking OCP (being filled at pharmacy different than family pharmacy). Girl gets pregnant. Successfully sues pharmacist for child support for not counseling concerning drug interaction (OCP was not in med profile). Family friend who wrote the RX was not sued.

    Do you take a complete medication and drug history prior to writing for ward members? After the fact, do you inform the primary provider that script was written so that the med profile can be updated? Do you review pertinent laboratory data when available? Do you chart the interaction so that it is part of the patient's medical record and available for review by the insurer or future treating physicians? If not, then you are bypassing systems for safety and accountability which is unethical.
    Teenage girl successfully sues pharmacist for child support because she got pregnant while secretly taking an OCP and an antibiotic at the same time? Huh? Lawyers can we get a ruling on this? Pretty sure neither doctor nor pharmacist gives any guarantee of 100% efficacy of any OCP and why on earth would they be responsible when the patient is lying to them about her sexual activity and OCP? I'm not buying it. Sounds like a made up story to scare pharmacy students or med students to me.

    Obviously a doctor should ask about allergies and other pertinent medications before writing a script. The rest of that advice is good in an ideal situation but "unethical" is a pretty strong word to throw around in those cases I think. People buy meds in Mexico and Canada all the time -- ultimately it's the patient's responsibility to keep his docs informed and to know what he is putting in his body.

  28. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    I've been given a prescription by a family member twice. I was very grateful each time. Each time I saved much time and money and possibly health. I've also had a doctor in the ward give a prescription for my daughter. There was nothing unethical about it. Just someone giving a little of his time and talents. That's one small part of what makes Mormons a community.
    There are a lot of people who tell med students and residents they will get sued if they give a neighbor medical advice or prescribe an antibiotic for them. That always seemed ridiculous to me.

  29. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    I hear these kinds of sentiments from doctors regularly. And the doctors I hear them from are all very wealthy. Med school is still one of the surest paths to wealth that we have. I'm sure 99% of the country would happily take on $200,000 in low interest debt in return for a 6 figure salary.
    I agree with your sentiment, but with one correction: that debt is not low interest. Student loans for med school are around 7-8%, depending on the type of loan. That interest starts to accrue from day 1 of school, and some don't start paying it off until 6-10 years later when they're done with residency. That's a lot of money.

    I agree with you, though, still a pretty good investment.

  30. #60
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Los Angeles, California
    Posts
    15,373
    I listened to a presentation yesterday by a human resources/benefits consultant and can confirm that based on what he taught us, this guy is absolutely right:

    To sign up for Obamacare, start filling out the forms now and hire a good accountant

    As presently structured, on a consumer and employer level this is going to be a nightmare. I am hoping that pushback from the public will get the government to simplify the process. I am doubtful that my hopes will be realized.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •