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Thread: The Thread about Good Things in Scouting

  1. #31
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jrj84105 View Post
    My best experience in scouting was when I was 12 and ditched scouts/YM for the first time (I was NOT a rebellious kid at all). We all piled in the car of the one non-Mormon kid in the troop. He was the nicest kid in the troop and had Jesus hair. He put a tape in the cassette deck and I heard Nirvana for the first time. I looked forward to skipping scouts from then on. I thankfully missed what followed. The topic of scouting came up with my dad about 20 years later, and he broke down in tears over the guilt that he, as a long time member of the bishopric, felt for how few boys in my youth cohort stayed with the church. I knew the guy who was scout master was a jerk, but I didn't know the magnitude of how bad it was until that discussion.
    Why don't you start a "What I don't like about Scouting" thread?

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  2. #32
    It's better than indexing for a mutual activity, but just barely. Seriously, what is wrong with our mutual program. An indexing party for teenagers? Ugh........
    “Children and dogs are as necessary to the welfare of the country as Wall Street and the railroads.” -- Harry S. Truman

    "You never soar so high as when you stoop down to help a child or an animal." -- Jewish Proverb

    "Three-time Pro Bowler Eric Weddle the most versatile, and maybe most intelligent, safety in the game." -- SI, 9/7/15, p. 107.

  3. #33
    My cub scouts each need to report on 2 great Americans. I will need to give them 18 short bios of great Americans. Who should I choose? The boys are 9. So far, I am planning to use:

    Music: Bob Dylan, Louis Armstrong (maybe Slash from G'n'R?)

    Athletics: Michael Jordan, Michael Phelps (maybe I should just give out famous Utes? Troll some of the parents.)

    Writing: Hemmingway, Dr Seuss

    Art: Not sure who would be exciting for 9 years olds to learn about. Jackson Pollock?

    Politics: Abe Lincoln, Harriet Tubman, Ben Franklin, Martin Luther King Jr, Susan B. Anthony

    Other: Thomas Edison

    What are your suggestions?

  4. #34
    Sancho,
    In sports I like Jess Owens and Jackie Robinson. I think Malcolm X and Theodore Roosevelt are compelling in politics. In your inventor/technology category with Thomas Edison you might consider Bill Gates.

  5. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Utebiquitous View Post
    Sancho,
    In sports I like Jess Owens and Jackie Robinson. I think Malcolm X and Theodore Roosevelt are compelling in politics. In your inventor/technology category with Thomas Edison you might consider Bill Gates.
    Thanks. Great suggestions. I actually put Robinson on the list right after posting. Mark Twain is now in, too.

  6. #36
    Athlete I'd include Muhammad Ali




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  7. #37
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Politician: Frederick Douglass, Thomas Jefferson

    Athlete: Jack Kemp? Kinda straddles two worlds.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  8. #38
    Rosa Parks is also someone I would include.




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  9. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Diehard Ute View Post
    Rosa Parks is also someone I would include.
    I thought of her too, but this is February, so the boys have already studied her in school this month (same for MLK).

  10. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Diehard Ute View Post
    Athlete I'd include Muhammad Ali
    Of course! Thanks

  11. #41
    Brad Meltzer has a series of Children's Books on Ordinary People that Changed the world. Might be a little too young for your crew, but my 8 year old loves them and recently asked us for the Rosa Parks one.

    https://www.amazon.com/Ordinary-Peop...dren%27s+books
    “It only ends once. Anything that happens before that is just progress.”

    Well, because he thought it was good sport. Because some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.

  12. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    My cub scouts each need to report on 2 great Americans. I will need to give them 18 short bios of great Americans. Who should I choose? The boys are 9. So far, I am planning to use:

    Music: Bob Dylan, Louis Armstrong (maybe Slash from G'n'R?)

    Athletics: Michael Jordan, Michael Phelps (maybe I should just give out famous Utes? Troll some of the parents.)

    Writing: Hemmingway, Dr Seuss

    Art: Not sure who would be exciting for 9 years olds to learn about. Jackson Pollock?

    Politics: Abe Lincoln, Harriet Tubman, Ben Franklin, Martin Luther King Jr, Susan B. Anthony

    Other: Thomas Edison

    What are your suggestions?

    Slash for sure.
    Athlete: Phil Dixon
    Other: Fat Rick M

  13. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Applejack View Post
    Slash for sure.

  14. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    (maybe Slash from G'n'R?)
    Slash is British. Good list otherwise.

  15. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by northwestutefan View Post
    slash is british. Good list otherwise.
    d'oh!

  16. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    d'oh!
    He only lived in the UK until he was 6. He's been in the US for 45 years and has dual citizenship


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  17. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by NorthwestUteFan View Post
    Slash is British. Good list otherwise.
    Shutyourwhoremouth!@

  18. #48
    http://www.ksl.com/?sid=44204644&nid...nture-scouting

    This has been getting some attention but after reading the article I think its much ado about nothing.

  19. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by UtahsMrSports View Post
    http://www.ksl.com/?sid=44204644&nid...nture-scouting

    This has been getting some attention but after reading the article I think its much ado about nothing.
    I think this is a good move.

    I'm currently a Varsity scout coach. The 5 boys in our group/pack/whatever have no interest in scouting rank or advancement, and their parents do not pressure or support the scouting aspect at all. When I try to schedule activities based on merit badge requirements, no one shows up.

    On the other hand, our 12-13 year old troop is awesome. They have a great leader, the boys are engaged, and they really enjoy it. All of my current varsity scouts came from this same troop, but as they get older the scouting fire fades and they develop interest in other things like sports, video games, and girls.
    Dyslexics of the world, untie!

  20. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by UtahsMrSports View Post
    http://www.ksl.com/?sid=44204644&nid...nture-scouting

    This has been getting some attention but after reading the article I think its much ado about nothing.
    The UPI takes a slightly different angle than KSL in writing about the disassociation......

    http://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2017/...5851494515216/
    “Children and dogs are as necessary to the welfare of the country as Wall Street and the railroads.” -- Harry S. Truman

    "You never soar so high as when you stoop down to help a child or an animal." -- Jewish Proverb

    "Three-time Pro Bowler Eric Weddle the most versatile, and maybe most intelligent, safety in the game." -- SI, 9/7/15, p. 107.

  21. #51
    This was much needed. As chrisrenrut mentioned, it is like pulling teeth to get a 15yo to do scouts. Reviewing the program the LDS Church has in its place seems much more broad and tuned to the needs of youth today.

    I for one am glad.


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  22. #52
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocker Ute View Post
    This was much needed. As chrisrenrut mentioned, it is like pulling teeth to get a 15yo to do scouts. Reviewing the program the LDS Church has in its place seems much more broad and tuned to the needs of youth today.

    I for one am glad.


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    I think you are absolutely right. It was increasingly becoming a bad fit once the boys were age 14. Did the announcement say anything about the boys who do not receive their Eagle by age 14? I am sure there will be a way for those guys to finish, since almost no one does by that age.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  23. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    I think you are absolutely right. It was increasingly becoming a bad fit once the boys were age 14. Did the announcement say anything about the boys who do not receive their Eagle by age 14? I am sure there will be a way for those guys to finish, since almost no one does by that age.
    I think there's something in here about it:

    http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/articl...prclt=hIpmHoTx

  24. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    I think you are absolutely right. It was increasingly becoming a bad fit once the boys were age 14. Did the announcement say anything about the boys who do not receive their Eagle by age 14? I am sure there will be a way for those guys to finish, since almost no one does by that age.
    Nothing specific other than if boys wish to continue in the regular scout program after 14 they may.

    This is essentially what was happening in our ward anyway. We went on a 'Varsity campout' and the Varsity leader was like, "Hey, let's go uh... get your chainsawing merit badge." He hadn't the slightest clue about the scouting program.

  25. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Rocker Ute View Post
    Nothing specific other than if boys wish to continue in the regular scout program after 14 they may.

    This is essentially what was happening in our ward anyway. We went on a 'Varsity campout' and the Varsity leader was like, "Hey, let's go uh... get your chainsawing merit badge." He hadn't the slightest clue about the scouting program.
    The last 3 wards I've gone to more or less abandoned scouting activities for the 14+ crowd years ago. They have the younger scouts get merit badges at scout camp in the Summer, and the weekly activities are some combination of fun/service/education/spiritual. They still do high adventure outings with the boys in the summer, but there's no real focus on badges or rank.

    I think the church is just catching up to what the wards were doing.

  26. #56
    I have been a teacher's quorum advisor/varsity coach for three years and Ive never donated a penny to friends of scouting (at absolute best that program is inefficient, at worst its an out and out scam) or encouraged anyone in my ward to do so. If the kids show initiative and interest in finishing their eagle, than I have supported and encouraged where I could. Otherwise, Scouting has been placed solidly on the backburner.

    I would rather spend the time trying to help these kids get through day to day struggles of being a kid in this generation or try to share something about how to be a good man/husband/father/contributing member of society someday. I just dont think learning knots or sleeping in a lean to that you made by yourself is useful for that. I am hoping that whatever program comes along will capture some of the good things about scouts but also be more practical and useful.

  27. #57
    Senior Member Scorcho's Avatar
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    I do think you'll see a decline in Eagle scouts for LDS troops because of this, but personally I think being an Eagle Scout was over-valued anyway.

  28. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Scorcho View Post
    I do think you'll see a decline in Eagle scouts for LDS troops because of this, but personally I think being an Eagle Scout was over-valued anyway.
    I'm sure it meant more back in the 50s, but I got my Eagle at age 13. They basically just handed out the merit badges at scout camps. The service project was the only truly meaningful part of the rank. The camping, hiking, backpacking, canoeing, rafting, skiing, and cycling, on the other hand, were amazing experiences.

    I don't know that Eagle numbers will go down too far. I think most people complete it before age 14 now anyway.

  29. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Scorcho View Post
    I do think you'll see a decline in Eagle scouts for LDS troops because of this, but personally I think being an Eagle Scout was over-valued anyway.
    It's nice to know that my resume will age well against these non-Eagle earning losers.

  30. #60
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    They basically just handed out the merit badges at scout camps. The service project was the only truly meaningful part of the rank. The camping, hiking, backpacking, canoeing, rafting, skiing, and cycling, on the other hand, were amazing experiences.
    That doesn't really happen in most places. If leaders can find a middle ground between being a requirements Nazi and a total slacker, earning the merit badges can be an important way for boys to learn how to work and progress steadily towards a long-term goal. But Scouting is so variable from troop to troop and leader to leader. There are probably as many horror stories as success stories. And LDS troops have a deserved reputation as the worst.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

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