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Thread: The Utah Basketball Rebuild Project Thread: 2013 and after

  1. #391
    We don't have a 2017-18 thread yet, but Bealer officially got his extra year.
    “It only ends once. Anything that happens before that is just progress.”

    Well, because he thought it was good sport. Because some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.

  2. #392
    Senior Member justaute's Avatar
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    Good. Now we just need a good transfer or two for 2017.

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  3. #393
    Another interview with Bill Reilly today: https://espn700sports.com/interviews...coach-5-17-17/

    Some highlights - with two scholarships left, they've got some guys they are talking to, but he is not going to panic and pick guys up...it's got to be the right guy.

    With Kuz leaving, he is expecting (hoping? wishing? praying?) Rawson to have a big Senior season. He also said he expects Chris Seely to contribute, though he's not a great student, so Larry is working with him as well to mature. He was also positive about Donnie Tillman, and the other freshman we just signed from Vegas.

    Said that Barefield is trying to get all the guys back early to work together.

    The foreign trip is to Barcelona Spain and Paris France. He's excited about the bonding and Xs and Os getting started early. On a scale of 1-10, the competition they should be playing there is around an 8 (or that is what they requested).

    Talked about Kuz leaving and that he felt it was better for Kyle to come back to school, but obviously he has a biased opinion there, and he felt like his voice wasn't totally heard by Kyle. But he also said that Kyle is in a great position because he got his degree. Now that he's in the draft he's hopeful that he represents the program well.
    “It only ends once. Anything that happens before that is just progress.”

    Well, because he thought it was good sport. Because some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.

  4. #394
    Administrator U-Ute's Avatar
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    Since Bealer was stuck in a boot and couldn't get away, I asked him which of the young guys I'll be looking at next March to be stepping up next year.

    He said Tillman and PoPoola have been doing really well. Especially "Pup".




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  5. #395
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Interesting piece by Kenneth Ogbe, with some details of his story that were previously unknown, to me, at least.

    http://gouvu.com/news/2017/10/23/men...ot-scared.aspx

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  6. #396
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    Interesting piece by Kenneth Ogbe, with some details of his story that were previously unknown, to me, at least.

    http://gouvu.com/news/2017/10/23/men...ot-scared.aspx
    It certainly doesn’t make Utah out to be the bad guy like many of the previous stories did.




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  7. #397
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    Interesting piece by Kenneth Ogbe, with some details of his story that were previously unknown, to me, at least.

    http://gouvu.com/news/2017/10/23/men...ot-scared.aspx
    Great story. I completely understand why the U told him what they did and why he decided to transfer. It was the right move all around.

  8. #398
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    The Utah Basketball Rebuild Project Thread: 2013 and after

    Kragthorpe: Utes' Larry Krystkowiak is looking like the Pac-12's Coach of the Year

    https://www.sltrib.com/sports/2018/0...h-of-the-year/

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  9. #399
    I seem to recall that there were a number of us who lamented only getting Bibbins instead of some higher profile grad transfers. Where would this team be without Bibbins. Also, Gabe Bealer. He has come in when called upon and usually hit big shots. Is a good guy and doesn't create drama.

  10. #400
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UTEopia View Post
    I seem to recall that there were a number of us who lamented only getting Bibbins instead of some higher profile grad transfers. Where would this team be without Bibbins. Also, Gabe Bealer. He has come in when called upon and usually hit big shots. Is a good guy and doesn't create drama.
    My faith in Larry‘s ability to evaluate talent and coach kids up has been strengthened this season, what with Bibbins, Rawson, and Bealer. Even van Dyke has stepped up and played an important role several times.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  11. #401
    Can I be both thrilled and irritated at the same time when it comes to Bibbins? I think Seattle said a while back that it's too bad Bibbins - a fifth-year transfer - is the best player on a team this many years into Larry's tenure. Forgive me if I'm putting words in your mouth Seattle but I feel that way too. It bothers me; but what an addition! He is a terrific player. His leadership may be the most important "skill" that he brings.

    Speaking of Seattle, I was much closer to his view of the team than anyone else as the season began. I suppose they could crater these last three games but I'll be very surprised and even angry if that happens. My expectations are that they win the last three or go 2-1. I did not have those expectations as league play began.

    I still have some issues with Larry but I admit I live in the past, expecting Majerus-like game-planning and defense. Those are two areas that the staff and players have done much better this season. It does irk me that our opponents' best player(s) still usually play very well against us.

    Anyway, I'm going to enjoy having the opportunity to play for second or third as we move into the final two weeks of league play.

  12. #402
    Quote Originally Posted by Utebiquitous View Post
    Speaking of Seattle, I was much closer to his view of the team than anyone else as the season began. I suppose they could crater these last three games but I'll be very surprised and even angry if that happens. My expectations are that they win the last three or go 2-1. I did not have those expectations as league play began.
    I think asking for 3-0 to end the year is overly optimistic. It is possible, but unlikely.

  13. #403
    Quote Originally Posted by Applejack View Post
    I think asking for 3-0 to end the year is overly optimistic. It is possible, but unlikely.
    Especially when each of the three opponents trounced us in the first meeting. Still, it's fun to have a chance at the dance.

    Like all of modern basketball, it will come down to outside shooting.

  14. #404
    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    Especially when each of the three opponents trounced us in the first meeting. Still, it's fun to have a chance at the dance.

    Like all of modern basketball, it will come down to outside shooting.
    Although, everyone of those opponents is terrific at home and more or less horrible on the road.

    Beating UCLA is the key. If we win that, USC on the back end at altitude with short rest and without Boatright should have better odds. A week to prepare for Colorado should be enough. Knock on wood.

    And I just noticed that the USC game is at 12:30. That will hurt the crowd, but is an awfully short turn around for a team still on Pacific time.

    If we dont have barefield or jayce, everything changes. [/QUOTE]
    Last edited by concerned; 02-19-2018 at 09:51 AM.

  15. #405
    I took a look at Lunardi's projections this morning. As of right now, he has the Pac-12 at two bids with 4 teams among the 8 that just missed the cut. Included in those 4 are us, and our two opponents this week. Tremendous opportunity to move up, but we will be getting their best shot. And, like you guys said, they both beat us up pretty good earlier this year.

  16. #406
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    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    Kragthorpe: Utes' Larry Krystkowiak is looking like the Pac-12's Coach of the Year

    https://www.sltrib.com/sports/2018/0...h-of-the-year/
    Kurt follows me on Twitter, and this is the second time in two weeks he's taken a significant talking point of mine and put it in his column. I should be on his payroll.

  17. #407
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    Quote Originally Posted by Applejack View Post
    I think asking for 3-0 to end the year is overly optimistic. It is possible, but unlikely.
    Stop worrying. We got this ...

  18. #408
    Quote Originally Posted by SoCalPat View Post
    Kurt follows me on Twitter, and this is the second time in two weeks he's taken a significant talking point of mine and put it in his column. I should be on his payroll.
    To be fair, that one was low hanging fruit.

  19. #409
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Lest we forget how things were just one year prior to joining the PAC-12:


    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  20. #410
    Senior Member Scorcho's Avatar
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    based on expectations I give Utah a B+ on the year, but can we all agree this was Larry's last mulligan. No more:

    - revolving door for talented players

    - OOC schedules that hurt rather than help with March Madness

    - losing to a lower seed in Vegas

    I love Larry, but his warts aren't moving the program forward

  21. #411
    We have enough talent coming back that we shouldn't have the "we're too young" excuse, even with the influx of young talent coming in. I would imagine that in addition to the guys we've got coming in, that Larry would seek out another grad transfer as well and let a guy like Caldwell walk. Now, I do believe that you need to let guys in your program develop, and perhaps he just needs time, I don't think I'd give up on anyone besides him or Jokl at this point.

    With a core of Barefield, Johnson, Tillman, Seeley coming back and other guys having been in the program for a year, this needs to be a deeper rotation next year, particularly early on.

    As for the schedule, I think we're really close to having a balanced schedule. It doesn't need a total overhaul, just 3-4 of the games need to be an improvement over what we've had the last few years. I'm working on charting all of the schedules of the teams in our league this year and seeing where we fell short that others did not. Again, I don't think it is a huge leap we're talking about.
    “It only ends once. Anything that happens before that is just progress.”

    Well, because he thought it was good sport. Because some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.

  22. #412
    Quote Originally Posted by Scorcho View Post
    based on expectations I give Utah a B+ on the year, but can we all agree this was Larry's last mulligan. No more:

    - revolving door for talented players

    - OOC schedules that hurt rather than help with March Madness

    - losing to a lower seed in Vegas

    I love Larry, but his warts aren't moving the program forward
    Agreed. I dont see how next year is better, unless certain players improve dramatically and unexpectedly. Our highly rated talent will be very young. Without Collette, we will have to establish inside scoring from someone, or we will be relegated to launching 3's. I dont see how Jayce is going to become that person over a summer. Maybe Tillman, possibly Seeley (has he shown any low post moves other than a dunk?), but that is asking a lot. We have to improve rebounding, and losing Collette (despite what I said) and Rawson wont help. That has to come from Tillman and Seeley for the most part. I question whether either Barefield or Jones can run the offense as well as Bibbins did this year. And once again, we likely wont have a go-to scorer we can rely on when we need to. Maybe one of the newcomers will surprise ala Donovan Mitchell. One or more may have to. Asking a lot of an 18 or 19 year old.
    Last edited by concerned; 03-09-2018 at 09:19 AM.

  23. #413
    Quote Originally Posted by Scorcho View Post
    based on expectations I give Utah a B+ on the year, but can we all agree this was Larry's last mulligan. No more:

    - revolving door for talented players

    - OOC schedules that hurt rather than help with March Madness

    - losing to a lower seed in Vegas

    I love Larry, but his warts aren't moving the program forward
    We're in a tough spot. We really need to return to the tournament, but all our hope next season is riding on unknown freshmen.

    We aren't a tournament worthy team this season. Ever since it became clear that ASU isn't good, we've been hanging our hat on our win over Missouri. Our RPI was enough to keep us on the bubble despite a complete lack of quality wins. So, in that sense, our OCC schedule helped with March Madness. Or, to put it another way, our OCC schedule kept us in the game. It set us up to where all we would need to do is beat Arizona or USC to get in.

    We did lose to a lower seed in Vegas, but only 1 game separated Utah and Oregon in the final conference standings.

  24. #414
    Senior Member Scorcho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post

    We did lose to a lower seed in Vegas, but only 1 game separated Utah and Oregon in the final conference standings.
    2nd year in a row Utah was able to grab a 1st round bye in Vegas, but lost to a higher seed

    Last year #5 Cal played the night before and beat us.

  25. #415
    Quote Originally Posted by concerned View Post
    Asking a lot of an 18 or 19 year old.
    Asking a lot of an 18 year old, but we have 6 of them coming in, and we only need 1 of them to be amazing. We need two more to be serviceable. This is how college basketball works now, right?

    Guards: Barefield, Jones, PVD, Doutrive, Gaskin, Popoola
    Forwards: Seeley, Tillman, Battin, Allen, Caldwell
    Centers: Johnson, Thione

    None of the returning players will ever be a post presence for us. For post play, 100% of the hope in in Battin. For interior defense, on the other hand, we have plenty to feel optimistic over.

    For the rebounding, Jayce is already a strong rebounder. I think we can place hope in Seeley and Tillman, too. They've shown flashes with rebounding. Then there's Battin and Thione. Doutrive is a tall guard, and Gaskin is an athletic 6'3". I think rebounding will be better next season.

    We'll certainly miss having a PG like Bibbins. We know Barefield can't do that, so the hope is riding on Jones.

    That's two big parts of the game - post play and PG - where all of our eggs are in one unknown basket. That's kinda scary.

  26. #416
    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    Asking a lot of an 18 year old, but we have 6 of them coming in, and we only need 1 of them to be amazing. We need two more to be serviceable. This is how college basketball works now, right?

    Guards: Barefield, Jones, PVD, Doutrive, Gaskin, Popoola
    Forwards: Seeley, Tillman, Battin, Allen, Caldwell
    Centers: Johnson, Thione

    None of the returning players will ever be a post presence for us. For post play, 100% of the hope in in Battin. For interior defense, on the other hand, we have plenty to feel optimistic over.

    For the rebounding, Jayce is already a strong rebounder. I think we can place hope in Seeley and Tillman, too. They've shown flashes with rebounding. Then there's Battin and Thione. Doutrive is a tall guard, and Gaskin is an athletic 6'3". I think rebounding will be better next season.

    We'll certainly miss having a PG like Bibbins. We know Barefield can't do that, so the hope is riding on Jones.

    That's two big parts of the game - post play and PG - where all of our eggs are in one unknown basket. That's kinda scary.
    I'm of the opinion that Jayce Johnson is going to surprise some people next year.

  27. #417
    Quote Originally Posted by Scorcho View Post
    2nd year in a row Utah was able to grab a 1st round bye in Vegas, but lost to a higher seed

    Last year #5 Cal played the night before and beat us.
    Sure, but again, neither of the games were upsets. A 3/6 games seems like a big seeding difference, but Oregon and Utah were even in the conference. The 4/5 game last season...ditto. Not that I'm happy to lose, but on your ultimatum to Larry list, that one is small compared to the revolving door issue. The fact that we have repeatedly had to cobble teams together last minute through transfers and late pick-ups is far more concerning that the scheduling issue or the fact that we've lost a couple of close 50/50 games in Vegas.

  28. #418
    Quote Originally Posted by Rocker Ute View Post
    I'm of the opinion that Jayce Johnson is going to surprise some people next year.
    I will be one of them, that is for sure. I hope you are right. Larry needs to pull a Washburn with him.
    Last edited by concerned; 03-09-2018 at 09:42 AM.

  29. #419
    Quote Originally Posted by Rocker Ute View Post
    I'm of the opinion that Jayce Johnson is going to surprise some people next year.
    Jayce is great. He's another Dalin Bachynski for us. He plays good defense and rebounds. He works hard, so I wouldn't be surprised to see his FT% get up into the high 60's, even with the awful form. But I would be very surprised to see him turn into a strong low post presence on offense.

  30. #420
    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    We're in a tough spot. We really need to return to the tournament, but all our hope next season is riding on unknown freshmen.

    We aren't a tournament worthy team this season. Ever since it became clear that ASU isn't good, we've been hanging our hat on our win over Missouri. Our RPI was enough to keep us on the bubble despite a complete lack of quality wins. So, in that sense, our OCC schedule helped with March Madness. Or, to put it another way, our OCC schedule kept us in the game. It set us up to where all we would need to do is beat Arizona or USC to get in.

    We did lose to a lower seed in Vegas, but only 1 game separated Utah and Oregon in the final conference standings.
    Yeah - I wouldn't paint ourselves into a corner of "Larry needs to get back to the big dance next year or else!" Truth is, he probably isn't going anywhere. I get the arguments about his salary. Fine. But as has been pointed out here, we need some guys to make big leaps and we need the young guys to come in ready to play. Given Larry's hesitancy to play young guys meaningful minutes (outside of Tillman), it will be interesting to see what he does with his rotation.

    As for our OOC, the road losses to Butler and BYU are both fine, I guess. BYU didn't really become a quality loss until they beat St. Mary's in the WCC tourney, vaulting their RPI up quite a bit and making that technically a Q1 loss. And, let's be honest, that was a loss 18 months or whatever in the making. Ole Miss (136) and Utah St. (158) as neutral site wins gave us next to nothing in the quadrant formula (Q3). UNLV (122) as a neutral site loss falls into the Q3 category as well. As you point out, Missouri is our best win OOC and because it was a home game, and they fall just outside the RPI top 30, it's a Q2 win. The rest of our OOC schedule just doesn't give us very much in terms of the quadrants. Larry seems to rely on the strength of the league, which experts pretty universally said this year was down...so you can't rely on the league for all of your quality wins or losses. Now, you also can't project that Ole Miss is going to be 50+ RPI spots worse than last year, or that BYU would have a relatively down year, or that Xavier would cancel on you, taking away a sure fire Q1 game at home, etc. So some of that is out of their hands, but still, you've just simply got to close the gap on those other OOC games.
    Last edited by DrumNFeather; 03-09-2018 at 09:51 AM.
    “It only ends once. Anything that happens before that is just progress.”

    Well, because he thought it was good sport. Because some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.

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