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Thread: I Wish I Knew How to Quit You - The BYU Sports Thread

  1. #3151
    Quote Originally Posted by Two Utes View Post
    BYU needs a gimmicky offense. They don't have the horses and athletes to run a pro style offense. Remember, Holmoe hired Detmer, not Sitake. I'm sure that is a conflict between the two. I'm sure Sitake wants his guy. Hiring Detmer was dumb. Yet, for whatever reasons, Holmoe never gets attacked. Can you imagine Chris Hill hiring the Offensive Coordinator?

    Wasnt that also the issue with Ken N? Holmoe didn't want him to run his offense, but to hire Detmer? Ken N. wanted to run his offense, so they agreed to go their separate ways? Holmoe preferred Kalani because he would run Detmer's offense?

  2. #3152
    Quote Originally Posted by concerned View Post
    Wasnt that also the issue with Ken N? Holmoe didn't want him to run his offense, but to hire Detmer? Ken N. wanted to run his offense, so they agreed to go their separate ways? Holmoe preferred Kalani because he would run Detmer's offense?
    Yes. Ken N showed up with an offer in hand, expecting to take the job, and then Holmoe told him his OC would have to be Detmer. It is almost inconceivable that a D1 AD could do that to a guy like Ken N who is an extremely successful and established HC; a major slap in the face. Ken N told him to pound sand and Holmoe immediately jumped on a plane to go hire Kalani. I've heard speculation that Holmoe wanted Sitake from the get-go but his bosses wanted Ken N, so Holmoe kind of undermined the possible Ken N hiring by insisting on Detmer, but who knows.

  3. #3153
    Quote Originally Posted by Scratch View Post
    I've heard speculation that Holmoe wanted Sitake from the get-go but his bosses wanted Ken N, so Holmoe kind of undermined the possible Ken N hiring by insisting on Detmer, but who knows.

    I heard that too. From Holmoe's perspective, I would bet he thought he was protecting BYU's brand. The fan base would never go for a gimmicky air force, navy, ga. tech offense, but wanted the restoration of McMahon, Bosco, Young, Detmer.

  4. #3154
    Quote Originally Posted by concerned View Post
    I heard that too. From Holmoe's perspective, I would bet he thought he was protecting BYU's brand. The fan base would never go for a gimmicky air force, navy, ga. tech offense, but wanted the restoration of McMahon, Bosco, Young, Detmer.
    I have a hard time believing the option would work at byu but what do I know? Are there enough Mormon kids running the option in high school that they would be able to recruit QBs?

  5. #3155
    Is it a bad idea in general to hire a former coach as AD? It's got to be so hard for someone with that background to not meddle.

  6. #3156
    Doman came from the mighty Skyline High School and was an option QB there.


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  7. #3157
    Quote Originally Posted by Nice Marmot View Post
    I have a hard time believing the option would work at byu but what do I know? Are there enough Mormon kids running the option in high school that they would be able to recruit QBs?
    If I were BYU I'd go all out for Ken N. I think BYU gets good enough recruits to get into the top 25 every once in a while, and with the right schedule, maybe into a Big Bowl--with a coach like ours who gets the most out of his recruiting disadvantages. BYU could do that running a pro style. But I think it's core problem right now is coaching. This whole staff is so green and so demonstrably not savvy. I've been predicting that what has happened would happen. And it's not just that they've lost, it's how they've lost. There's no reason to think this program will turn around.

    But every time BYU has to find a new coach, it has almost no viable candidates, because of its peculiarity. Bronco was a panic hire and the fact he was good was a fluke. So like some schools just recruit the best athletes for basketball, or skill positions, if I were BYU I'd just hire the best available coach, and let him win the way he can or wants. That's Ken N. From what I've seen, he'd make them a real rival to the Utes again.

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  8. #3158
    I think if BYU had hired Ken N. and embraced the triple option you'd suddenly see several high schools in Utah (especially Utah County) start running that system. It's a high school friendly system and if you've got a local school running it you give those players a leg up on getting scholarship offers that they may not otherwise get. Now these wouldn't be 4* recruits that would be getting fed to BYU but they could be similar to Air Force where they're just athletic enough to be a complete pain in the butt and win 7-8 games almost every year.

  9. #3159
    Administrator U-Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    We were trying to list his successes a few months ago. Slim pickings.
    HD TRUCK!

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  10. #3160
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scratch View Post
    Yes. Ken N showed up with an offer in hand, expecting to take the job, and then Holmoe told him his OC would have to be Detmer.
    Wow. I did not know this.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  11. #3161
    Quote Originally Posted by Scratch View Post
    Yes. Ken N showed up with an offer in hand, expecting to take the job, and then Holmoe told him his OC would have to be Detmer........

    I would be interested to know how you know this to be the case. Is there a link to an article or interview, or through personal conversation? I know its a popular talking point, but, I'm skeptical of it because of the bizarreness of it.
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  12. #3162
    Quote Originally Posted by mUUser View Post
    I would be interested to know how you know this to be the case. Is there a link to an article or interview, or through personal conversation? I know its a popular talking point, but, I'm skeptical of it because of the bizarreness of it.
    I know it from conversations with people who would know. I also know it was the case with Kalani. Not just Detmer though, also Mahe, Empey and the receiver coach.

  13. #3163
    Administrator U-Ute's Avatar
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    An accurate recap

    byuded.jpg

  14. #3164
    Senior Member Scorcho's Avatar
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    https://www.ksl.com/?sid=46185714&nid=272

    Sitake must be having a ball

  15. #3165
    Where is Toolblue? All year he's been MIA. What could possibly have happened?

  16. #3166
    Senior Member Scorcho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Applejack View Post
    Where is Toolblue? All year he's been MIA. What could possibly have happened?
    Caribou migration has required a relocation of his igloo

  17. #3167
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scorcho View Post
    Caribou migration has required a relocation of his igloo
    I hope he was able to find CBS Sports Network on his TV.

  18. #3168
    Quote Originally Posted by Scorcho View Post
    https://www.ksl.com/?sid=46185714&nid=272

    Sitake must be having a ball
    \


    This raises another real issue. If you are a person of color and you decide to go to BYU, be advised that you will likely be pulled over if you are driving late at night. Bernard gets pulled over and blows a .09 barely over the limit. Tolatau gets pulled over. He's not driving but they decide they have enough evidence to search him and cite him for possession. It happens over and over in Utah County.

    Personally, I wouldn't live there if I were a person of color. Actually, I wouldn't live there as a white dude.

  19. #3169
    Quote Originally Posted by Two Utes View Post
    \


    This raises another real issue. If you are a person of color and you decide to go to BYU, be advised that you will likely be pulled over if you are driving late at night. Bernard gets pulled over and blows a .09 barely over the limit. Tolatau gets pulled over. He's not driving but they decide they have enough evidence to search him and cite him for possession. It happens over and over in Utah County.

    Personally, I wouldn't live there if I were a person of color. Actually, I wouldn't live there as a white dude.
    And bad choices have consequences.

    Drinking and driving is stupid.

    Having marijuana in a car is stupid.

    The courts have ruled the odor of marijuana coming from a vehicle is probable cause to search the vehicle and occupants, a warrant is not needed. A vehicle has less stringent rules than a house. And anyone has been around marijuana knows how strong the odor is.






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  20. #3170
    Quote Originally Posted by Diehard Ute View Post
    And bad choices have consequences.

    Drinking and driving is stupid.

    Having marijuana in a car is stupid.


    The courts have ruled the odor of marijuana coming from a vehicle is probable cause to search the vehicle and occupants, a warrant is not needed. A vehicle has less stringent rules than a house. And anyone has been around marijuana knows how strong the odor is.




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    So as long as the cop smells the odor of marijuana, he can order everybody out of the car and can search everybody. No objective criteria. He or she just has to say "I smelled the odor of marijuana" or "I smelled the odor of alcohol."

    Driving around Utah County late at night is stupid (that is, if you are a person of color).

    Going to BYU if you are a person of color is stupid.

  21. #3171
    Quote Originally Posted by Two Utes View Post
    So as long as the cop smells the odor of marijuana, he can order everybody out of the car and can search everybody. No objective criteria. He or she just has to say "I smelled the odor of marijuana" or "I smelled the odor of alcohol."

    Driving around Utah County late at night is stupid (that is, if you are a person of color).

    Going to BYU if you are a person of color is stupid.
    There are several things that point to DUI. With some of those present there’s enough to have the driver perform field sobriety tests. The driver has to fail a certain number of “clues” to them be processed for a DUI.

    And yes, the odor of marijuana in a car is enough to search the car.

    You seem to be implying the cops are out of line in these cases. Yet there’s physical evidence in both.

    I’m curious why you’re not upset at the athletes for making bad choices, especially Bernard for driving drunk.


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  22. #3172
    Quote Originally Posted by Diehard Ute View Post
    There are several things that point to DUI. With some of those present there’s enough to have the driver perform field sobriety tests. The driver has to fail a certain number of “clues” to them be processed for a DUI.

    And yes, the odor of marijuana in a car is enough to search the car.

    You seem to be implying the cops are out of line in these cases. Yet there’s physical evidence in both.

    I’m curious why you’re not upset at the athletes for making bad choices, especially Bernard for driving drunk.


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    I'm troubled that so many people of color are in the news being pulled over by cops when there aren't that many people of color in Utah County.

    Same thing happens in Cache County. If you visited a court day up there and you had to sit through a criminal calendar, without knowing anything else, you would think that a majority of the population is people of color given the number of folks being brought up on charges and what not.

    Again. to my original point, it's stupid to go to BYU if you are a person of color.

  23. #3173
    Quote Originally Posted by Scorcho View Post
    https://www.ksl.com/?sid=46185714&nid=272

    Sitake must be having a ball

    Ouch. When it rains it pours. Interesting that he played in two games since the violation......not that he did enough to make much of an impact though.
    “Children and dogs are as necessary to the welfare of the country as Wall Street and the railroads.” -- Harry S. Truman

    "You never soar so high as when you stoop down to help a child or an animal." -- Jewish Proverb

    "Three-time Pro Bowler Eric Weddle the most versatile, and maybe most intelligent, safety in the game." -- SI, 9/7/15, p. 107.

  24. #3174
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mUUser View Post
    Ouch. When it rains it pours. Interesting that he played in two games since the violation......not that he did enough to make much of an impact though.
    I wonder what is being said about all this behind closed doors at 47 East South Temple. I think the pressure will increase to make BYU sports follow the military service academy model.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  25. #3175
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    I wonder what is being said about all this behind closed doors at 47 East South Temple. I think the pressure will increase to make BYU sports follow the military service academy model.
    What is the service academy model? Join a conference? Run the option?

  26. #3176
    Quote Originally Posted by Two Utes View Post
    So as long as the cop smells the odor of marijuana, he can order everybody out of the car and can search everybody. No objective criteria. He or she just has to say "I smelled the odor of marijuana" or "I smelled the odor of alcohol."

    Driving around Utah County late at night is stupid (that is, if you are a person of color).

    Going to BYU if you are a person of color is stupid.
    I'm sorry, but I dont bye what youre selling here. I just don't see cops, in the middle of the night, a)being able to determine someone's race as they drive by and b)pulling them over simply because of their skin color when they would let a white person just go. Of course there are bad apples and of course what I just described happens, but I just dont think its happening at an epidemic level. More blame needs to be placed on those committing the crime.

    As far as the cops being able to search a car based on the smell of weed.......why not? If someone is worried about being unfairly treated by the cops, pull out your phone and film it.

  27. #3177
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    I Wish I Knew How to Quit You - The BYU Sports Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    What is the service academy model? Join a conference? Run the option?
    Forget about national championships, just try to stand for something and along the way play the best football you can with the athletes you can attract who can meet your standards. I would respect them for adopting that model.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  28. #3178
    Senior Member Scorcho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    Forget about national championships, just try to stand for something and along the way play the best football you can with the athletes you can attract who can meet your standards. I would respect them for adopting that model.
    except Ula and Bernard are both returned missionaries.

    These are the droids you're looking for.
    Last edited by Scorcho; 10-25-2017 at 02:48 PM.

  29. #3179
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    Forget about national championships, just try to stand for something and along the way play the best football you can with the athletes you can attract who can meet your standards. I would respect them for adopting that model.

    Okay. I don't think the academies made a conscious decision to adopt any particular model. It just happened gradually as they become less and less able to compete at the national championship level. It is the model of most G5 programs. It's probably already the model at BYU except for the acceptance from the fan base part of it. Shoot, from a certain point of view, it's the model of most P5 programs as well.

  30. #3180
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    Forget about national championships, just try to stand for something and along the way play the best football you can with the athletes you can attract who can meet your standards. I would respect them for adopting that model.
    That would require a modicum of humility.

    Time will tell if that is possible.

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