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Thread: I Wish I Knew How to Quit You - The BYU Sports Thread

  1. #1

    I Wish I Knew How to Quit You - The BYU Sports Thread



    In many ways, we are inseparably linked to The BYU, and always will be. We come from many different levels of interest/obsession regarding our jorts wearing, socially awkward brothers to the south, but I believe we are all somewhere in the process of remission. With how severely Lavell Edwards treated many of our childhoods, and the fervor by which many us hated BYU with the white hot fire of a thousand suns, discussion of BYU is inevitable. We wish we knew how to quit them, but we can't.

    However, I think it would be lovely if we had one thread for all things BYU, and this category seems the best spot for it seeing as how their high point in basketball over the last 35 years was making it clear to the Sweet Sixteen one time. The purpose of this thread is so we don't have to be embarrassed by our obsession, but we can keep it well organized in one place. That way, we can keep discussion of the zealot Captain Bronconi, the pug nosed Dave Rose, and the Worst Canadian Since Anne Murray (Greg Wrubell) mostly in this thread, and not scattered all over the board like a chimpanzee's well-flung poo.

    So, this is the thread. Don't be afraid to let your hatred show. If you need to binge, binge. If you need to purge, then by all means, purge.

    Just a few things to remember:

    1. Use of the word Zoob is appropriate, when necessary.
    2. Lighthearted is always better than super bitter.
    3. If you wear white suspenders to football games, feel free to have a big glass of shut the hell up.

  2. #2
    Handsome Boy Graduate mpfunk's Avatar
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    I hate BYU for backtracking on Spirit, Honor, and Tradition for every game so quickly. It would have given me great joy to have that smack talk for the entire year.
    So I said to David Eckstein, "You promised me, Eckstein, that if I followed you, you would walk with me always. But I noticed that during the most trying periods of my life, there have only been one set of prints in the sand. Why, when I have needed you most, have you not been there for me?" David Eckstein replied, "Because my little legs had gotten tired, and you were carrying me." And I looked down and saw that I was still carrying David Eckstein.
    --fjm.com

  3. #3
    Motorboatin' SOB Devildog's Avatar
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    Last edited by Devildog; 08-09-2013 at 05:40 PM.
    "We should remember that one man is much the same as another, and that he is best who is trained in the severest school."
    -Thucydides


    "Study strategy over the years and achieve the spirit of the warrior. Today is victory over yourself of yesterday; tomorrow is your victory over lesser men."
    -Miyamoto Musashi

    Si vis pacem, para bellum

  4. #4
    Who?
    "It'd be nice to please everyone but I thought it would be more interesting to have a point of view." -- Oscar Levant

  5. #5
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by U-Ute View Post
    Yeah. What happened with that? I see they are going with the gimmicky jerseys, and now they have bailed.

    They rarely change course on things. It seems like they would rather deal with the mocking rather than admit they were wrong at times. The Quest is a great example.

    Why this time?
    To his credit, I think, Bronco appears to have owned the mistake, but he still looks like a goofball:

    Last edited by LA Ute; 08-11-2013 at 07:22 AM.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell



  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devildog View Post
    You know, having Max Hall in this video twice really underscores and solidifies what a shitbucket of a video this really is.

  7. #7
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SoCalPat View Post
    You know, having Max Hall in this video twice really underscores and solidifies what a s***bucket of a video this really is.
    I love that video. It's either a brilliant parody or a perfect manifestation of the most insufferable attitudes of the worst segment of BYU fans. Maybe both.
    Last edited by LA Ute; 08-11-2013 at 10:24 AM.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell



  8. #8
    Motorboatin' SOB Devildog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    I love that video. It's either a brilliant parody or a perfect manifestation of the most insufferable attitudes of BYU fans. Maybe both.
    Fixed it for ya, LA.

    They are the most self-righteous, pious, holier than thou, sanctimonious, group of hypocrites and dorks you could ever see.

    Well... that's just like, my... opinion, man.
    Last edited by Devildog; 08-11-2013 at 03:24 PM.
    "We should remember that one man is much the same as another, and that he is best who is trained in the severest school."
    -Thucydides


    "Study strategy over the years and achieve the spirit of the warrior. Today is victory over yourself of yesterday; tomorrow is your victory over lesser men."
    -Miyamoto Musashi

    Si vis pacem, para bellum

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    To his credit, I think, Bronco appears to have owned the mistake, but he still looks like a goofball:

    This is a side Bronco I don't think I have seen very often, and to be honest, I kind of liked it. There was some self-deprecation, and that always works.
    "It'd be nice to please everyone but I thought it would be more interesting to have a point of view." -- Oscar Levant

  10. #10
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by USS Utah View Post
    This is a side Bronco I don't think I have seen very often, and to be honest, I kind of liked it. There was some self-deprecation, and that always works.
    It might be the most "normal" I've ever seen him.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell



  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    It might be the most "normal" I've ever seen him.
    The Boise State game last year was symbolic of Bronco's entire career at BYU. Yeah, he's a bit of a dork in front of a mike. Who isn't? But you couldn't tell me, for the first 58 minutes of that game, that Bronco's demeanor didn't single-handedly keep his team in the game. If I knew nothing about Bronco and my team had a coaching vacancy, and I saw the first 58 minutes of that game, I would have been all-in on hiring him.

    Then you get to the decision to go for 2, which much like last week's decision, made zero sense at all. It was Bronco acting alone without giving any thought to alternatives. That kind of single-mindedness is good for the locker room and building your program, but it's bad when it's put in front of the public without consulation of any kind.

  12. #12
    Senior Member Scorcho's Avatar
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    Brady Propping! LOL, That is all.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Scorcho View Post
    Brady Propping! LOL, That is all.
    I made the mistake of wasting 20 minutes listening to that verbal train wreck. Everyone involved should be embarrased, but I would bet they all came out of it feeling like they accomplished something. Pretty sad.

  14. #14
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chrisrenrut View Post
    I made the mistake of wasting 20 minutes listening to that verbal train wreck. Everyone involved should be embarrased, but I would bet they all came out of it feeling like they accomplished something. Pretty sad.
    I didn't listen to the interview but the comments on the radio station web site were great. Lots of BYU fans saying, "You go, Brady!"

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell



  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    I didn't listen to the interview but the comments on the radio station web site were great. Lots of BYU fans saying, "You go, Brady!"
    Strange interview for sure. As I listened, I couldn't help but agree with Poppinga at first. I feel that Gordon Monson does go for the low hanging fruit when he knows itll get a lot of pageviews. Even though I agreed with his take on Bronco, I still find his style somewhat annoying. So I didn't mind that. But it was as if someone flipped a lightswitch. All of a sudden poppinga is asking about Gordon's religious affiliation and level of activity on the air. (EXTREMELY inappropriate to say the least; but I wouldnt expect most BYU faithful to acknowledge that). Here's my other issue with Poppinga that Monson tried to bring up: In regards to Bronco using the BoM at his presser........if you want to use that in your own time to teach your players, by all means do it. However, I find it inappropriate at best (sacreligious at worst) to make that display in a press conference. And this is from someone who lists the BoM as the most influential in my life.

    I was glad that once Brady was done with his rant about how Bronco was justified in using the BoM, that Spence did the right thing by just thanking him for his time and dismissing him.

    Finally, afterwards Brady took the low road and resorted to the "I cant have a conversation with him because he never played organized sports". BS.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by chrisrenrut View Post
    I would bet they all came out of it feeling like they accomplished something.
    Totally. That's the exact same sense I get.

    Let me say this about the local media. It's easy to bag on them; they're just regular guys with flaws and idiosyncrasies that get broadcast daily through mass media. But can you imagine having to manipulate the Utah/BYU rivalry like some puppeteer as your career? It might be fun for the first five seconds, but quickly it would absolutely ruin my love of sports. A lot of young cocky guys come into this market, do their time, then move on. But guys like Monsen, Bolerjack, David James and others who've planted their flag in this market must just have a twitch in their eye when they look at themselves in the mirror in the morning. They have their "time to make the donuts" moment like we all do before heading to work, but imagine the daily circus they know their headed into. They willingly have to sell out to this market, simultaneously poking and stroking BYU and Utah fans just to keep up an audience. I assume they all started out as pure sports fans like you and me, but they've made sports their business and now they have to feed the beast. How depressing. Imagine coming to loathe something you once had a passion for. What a disappointment.

    Of course I'm biased, and I know we Ute fans have our crazy, suspender-wearing idiots among us, but dealing with the BYU fanbase must be enough to make a man want to take his own life. Again, while they're easy to pan and make caricatures of I have a small bit of sympathy for local media and guys like Bronco. Bronco reminds me of a beaten dog who you walk up to to pet and he pisses the floor. And it's not his fault. That's just the brand of crazy he's dealing with from his fanbase and boosters. "Normal" fanbases are wacked out and psycho enough. But add in the religiosity of the BYU dynamic and it becomes Crazytown. I guess he could always just walk away. He's had his chances to leave but he chooses to stay, so I don't know how to account for that.

    Anyway, what a mess that whole interview was. I can't wish next Thursday here soon enough. I'm done with the three-ring circus; it's time for some actual games.

  17. #17
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FountainOfUte View Post
    Totally. That's the exact same sense I get.

    Let me say this about the local media. It's easy to bag on them; they're just regular guys with flaws and idiosyncrasies that get broadcast daily through mass media. But can you imagine having to manipulate the Utah/BYU rivalry like some puppeteer as your career? It might be fun for the first five seconds, but quickly it would absolutely ruin my love of sports. A lot of young cocky guys come into this market, do their time, then move on. But guys like Monsen, Bolerjack, David James and others who've planted their flag in this market must just have a twitch in their eye when they look at themselves in the mirror in the morning. They have their "time to make the donuts" moment like we all do before heading to work, but imagine the daily circus they know their headed into. They willingly have to sell out to this market, simultaneously poking and stroking BYU and Utah fans just to keep up an audience. I assume they all started out as pure sports fans like you and me, but they've made sports their business and now they have to feed the beast. How depressing. Imagine coming to loathe something you once had a passion for. What a disappointment.

    Of course I'm biased, and I know we Ute fans have our crazy, suspender-wearing idiots among us, but dealing with the BYU fanbase must be enough to make a man want to take his own life. Again, while they're easy to pan and make caricatures of I have a small bit of sympathy for local media and guys like Bronco. Bronco reminds me of a beaten dog who you walk up to to pet and he pisses the floor. And it's not his fault. That's just the brand of crazy he's dealing with from his fanbase and boosters. "Normal" fanbases are wacked out and psycho enough. But add in the religiosity of the BYU dynamic and it becomes Crazytown. I guess he could always just walk away. He's had his chances to leave but he chooses to stay, so I don't know how to account for that.

    Anyway, what a mess that whole interview was. I can't wish next Thursday here soon enough. I'm done with the three-ring circus; it's time for some actual games.
    +1!

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell



  18. #18
    Guys like Popinga and their stupid correlation of BYU to the Kingdom of God (and unfortunately I truly believe that a large percentage of the fan base believes the same thing on some level or another) is enough for me to be quite happy to not compete against them on any field or court or wherever ever, ever again. I am a participating member of the LDS Church and have a degree from BYU and I just don't understand that type of thinking. Yet it is engrained in their culture. I was told by a friend of a current player that after one workout this past winter Bronco gathered the troops and started to tell them that if they all lived better off the field they would be blessed with the realization of their football goals. I happen to disagree with this type of thinking, but some people lap it up. I think it is a turn off to most people who are not LDS and many who are and is ultimately a detriment to the mission of the LDS Church. I have always believed that the mission of BYU is not to do missionary work in the traditional sense, but rather a place for rallying the already converted.

    Although I have lived in Utah the majority of my life, the years that I spent living outside the State were refreshing because nobody gives a crap about the LDS Church one way or another and so it was never an issue in any part of my life other than my religious activity. In Utah it permeates the fabric of everything and becomes the focal point for so much chest thumping and finger pointing that it becomes almost nauseating.

    Anyway, I am one person who will not miss playing them one bit the next two years. I will try to avoid the 365 days of constant comparison and whining by the media that we are not playing them. I accomplish this by not listening to the local media and not reading their coverage. I will listen to Bill and Hans on some days and will read stuff by Dirk Facer, but I read more by Jon Wilner than anyone else to get my PAC 12 coverage.

  19. #19

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by UTEopia View Post
    Guys like Popinga and their stupid correlation of BYU to the Kingdom of God (and unfortunately I truly believe that a large percentage of the fan base believes the same thing on some level or another) is enough for me to be quite happy to not compete against them on any field or court or wherever ever, ever again. I am a participating member of the LDS Church and have a degree from BYU and I just don't understand that type of thinking. Yet it is engrained in their culture. I was told by a friend of a current player that after one workout this past winter Bronco gathered the troops and started to tell them that if they all lived better off the field they would be blessed with the realization of their football goals. I happen to disagree with this type of thinking, but some people lap it up. I think it is a turn off to most people who are not LDS and many who are and is ultimately a detriment to the mission of the LDS Church. I have always believed that the mission of BYU is not to do missionary work in the traditional sense, but rather a place for rallying the already converted.

    Although I have lived in Utah the majority of my life, the years that I spent living outside the State were refreshing because nobody gives a crap about the LDS Church one way or another and so it was never an issue in any part of my life other than my religious activity. In Utah it permeates the fabric of everything and becomes the focal point for so much chest thumping and finger pointing that it becomes almost nauseating.

    Anyway, I am one person who will not miss playing them one bit the next two years. I will try to avoid the 365 days of constant comparison and whining by the media that we are not playing them. I accomplish this by not listening to the local media and not reading their coverage. I will listen to Bill and Hans on some days and will read stuff by Dirk Facer, but I read more by Jon Wilner than anyone else to get my PAC 12 coverage.
    He's telling the truth and therein lies the problem. The BYU administration (and whoever they are reporting to) intends to connect BYU football to the Mission of the Church. Just because Bronco is blatantly doing this doesn't mean he is making any misrepresentations. That is BYU football. If it offends Mormons who support other schools, then, quite honestly they need to look at the reasons why it is offensive because it shouldn't be offensive to any active, true beleiving Mormon. Popinga's comments are ridiculous but truthful. If that makes anybody's butt hurt, then that person need to do some soul searching

  21. #21
    Motorboatin' SOB Devildog's Avatar
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    Here is a link to the conversation if anyone has the 17+ minutes to waste.

    http://1280thezone.com/index.php/aud...mer_cougars_lb

    To me it is just more of the same.

    Perspective and points of view are gonna be different.

    I will say that from my point of view, Poppinga asking Monson about his own standing in the LDS church came across to me as condescending. As if, Monson would "get it" if he were more righteous. Universal truths and all.
    "We should remember that one man is much the same as another, and that he is best who is trained in the severest school."
    -Thucydides


    "Study strategy over the years and achieve the spirit of the warrior. Today is victory over yourself of yesterday; tomorrow is your victory over lesser men."
    -Miyamoto Musashi

    Si vis pacem, para bellum

  22. #22
    Really, I have a lot of respect for fans of the BYU football. What a pisser to have to wade through all of the chicanery to get to the actual sports of it.

    They talk incessantly about the how Board of Trustees is keeping them down, they conjure up neverending rumors about the alcohol-related activities of 18 year old recruits, and they force themselves into rabid excitement about what channel their games are on, rather than who their opponent is. (Tangentially, I would like to say here that the team does a great job of adhering to the policy of playing the games on the date and time at which they are scheduled!)

    Goatnapper spent like five seasons working feverishly to convince himself that Captain Bronconi wasn't a weirdo, he was just acting like a weirdo to convince his genuine weirdo overlords that he was one of them, and in such a way he could handle honor code violations on his own.

    How tiring. I mean, good for them, but how tiring.

  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Two Utes View Post
    He's telling the truth and therein lies the problem. The BYU administration (and whoever they are reporting to) intends to connect BYU football to the Mission of the Church. Just because Bronco is blatantly doing this doesn't mean he is making any misrepresentations. That is BYU football. If it offends Mormons who support other schools, then, quite honestly they need to look at the reasons why it is offensive because it shouldn't be offensive to any active, true beleiving Mormon. Popinga's comments are ridiculous but truthful. If that makes anybody's butt hurt, then that person need to do some soul searching

    Are you saying that anyone who claims to be an active Mormon who does not agree that BYU = The Kingdom of God is off base, because that is what your statement indicates to me and apparently that was what Poppinga was trying to get at by questioning Monson about his religious activity. If Monson was only an active Mormon he would understand.

    You are probably correct about what they want the message to be. I guess my problem is that I disagree with the overt association not because it offends me but because I believe it is detrimental to the actual mission. If you go to the communities where BYU plays on a regular basis I bet you will find that next to the actual rival of that school, BYU is the most loathed opponent. How does that further the mission of the LDS Church? Now BYU fans love to say, well that is because we beat them all the time. While there may be some truth to that, my experience from living in San Diego is that they are the most loathed because the fan base is made up of a large percentage of people who are arrogant, self-righteous pricks who think they are better than anyone else.

  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by UTEopia View Post
    Are you saying that anyone who claims to be an active Mormon who does not agree that BYU = The Kingdom of God is off base, because that is what your statement indicates to me and apparently that was what Poppinga was trying to get at by questioning Monson about his religious activity. If Monson was only an active Mormon he would understand.

    You are probably correct about what they want the message to be. I guess my problem is that I disagree with the overt association not because it offends me but because I believe it is detrimental to the actual mission. If you go to the communities where BYU plays on a regular basis I bet you will find that next to the actual rival of that school, BYU is the most loathed opponent. How does that further the mission of the LDS Church? Now BYU fans love to say, well that is because we beat them all the time. While there may be some truth to that, my experience from living in San Diego is that they are the most loathed because the fan base is made up of a large percentage of people who are arrogant, self-righteous pricks who think they are better than anyone else.
    My point is simple--the people who the BYU guys report to are telling Bronco to tie the two together and to set apart BYU football from the others. He's doing it. Popinga is simply telling it like it is. The leaders want this. Don't shoot the messengers (Popinga and Bronconi)
    Last edited by Two Utes; 08-22-2013 at 04:23 PM.

  25. #25
    Motorboatin' SOB Devildog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UTEopia View Post
    the fan base is made up of a large percentage of people who are arrogant, self-righteous pricks who think they are better than anyone else.
    My favorite is when they say... He's a drinker, but he is still a good guy.

    Well... thanks.
    "We should remember that one man is much the same as another, and that he is best who is trained in the severest school."
    -Thucydides


    "Study strategy over the years and achieve the spirit of the warrior. Today is victory over yourself of yesterday; tomorrow is your victory over lesser men."
    -Miyamoto Musashi

    Si vis pacem, para bellum

  26. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Two Utes View Post
    My point is simple--the people who the BYU guys report to are telling Bronco to tie the two together and to set apart BYU football apart from the others. He's doing it. Popinga is simply telling it like it is. The leaders want this. Don't shoot the messengers (Popinga and Bronconi)
    And the last thing I'll say about this: I've heard 100 times the old saying "it's not the church it's the people in the church" In this instance, it's the church.

  27. #27
    Motorboatin' SOB Devildog's Avatar
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    If they were really serious about BYU football as a missionary tool... They should get the word out to their fans to stop all their douche-baggery. That's gotta be dickin' up the effort, ya know.

    Are they going to bash people into conversion?

    They talk a good game, but their actions say something else.

    It's like a gay orgy over there, I guess it's cool for some folks... but I have no interest.
    Last edited by Devildog; 08-22-2013 at 04:38 PM.
    "We should remember that one man is much the same as another, and that he is best who is trained in the severest school."
    -Thucydides


    "Study strategy over the years and achieve the spirit of the warrior. Today is victory over yourself of yesterday; tomorrow is your victory over lesser men."
    -Miyamoto Musashi

    Si vis pacem, para bellum

  28. #28
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    This statement by Jeffrey Holland, a former BYU president and current LDS Apostle, is interesting by itself, but the responses from BYU fans are even more interesting. This is from a CES fireside talk he gave from the Dixie College campus:

    A few years ago a young friend of mine—a returned missionary—was on one of the college basketball teams in Utah. He was a great young man and a very good ballplayer, but he wasn’t playing as much as he hoped he would. His particular talents and skills weren’t exactly what that team needed at that stage of its development or his. That happens in athletics. So, with the full support and best wishes of his coaches and his teammates, my young friend transferred to another school where he hoped he might contribute a little more.

    As fate would have it, things clicked at the new school, and my friend soon became a starter. And wouldn’t you know it—the schedule (determined years before these events transpired) had this young man returning to play against his former team in Salt Lake City's then-named Delta Center.

    What happened in that game has bothered me to this day, and I am seizing this unusual moment to get it off my chest. The vitriolic abuse that poured out of the stands on this young man’s head that night—a Latter-day Saint, returned missionary, newlywed who paid his tithing, served in the elder’s quorum, gave charitable service to the youth in his community, and waited excitedly for a new baby coming to him and his wife—what was said and done and showered upon him that night, and on his wife and their families, should not have been experienced by any human being anywhere anytime, whatever his sport, whatever his university, or whatever his personal decisions had been about either of them.

    But here is the worst part. The coach of this visiting team, something of a legend in the profession, turned to him after a spectacular game and said: “What is going on here? You are the hometown boy who has made good. These are your people. These are your friends.” But worst of all, he then said in total bewilderment, “Aren’t most of these people members of your church?”

    ...let’s finish the basketball incident. The day after that game, when there was some public reckoning and a call to repentance over the incident, one young man said, in effect: “Listen. We are talking about basketball here, not Sunday School. If you can’t stand the heat, get out of the kitchen. We pay good money to see these games. We can act the way we want. We check our religion at the door.”

    We check our religion at the door ”? Lesson number one for the establishment of Zion in the 21st century: You never “check your religion at the door.” Not ever.

    My young friends, that kind of discipleship cannot be—it is not discipleship at all. As the prophet Alma has taught the young women of the Church to declare every week in their Young Women theme, we are “to stand as witnesses of God at all times and in all things, and in all places that ye may be in,” not just some of the time, in a few places, or when our team has a big lead.
    I saw lots of BYU fans, on two message boards, say Elder Holland is wrong. That phenomenon points up the schizophrenia among many BYU fans: on the one hand, they think their team has special status in God's eyes, and yet they don't have to adjust their behavior or their expectations of their teams. It's very interesting.

    Look, I am active LDS and I recognize that from an LDS perspective BYU does many wonderful things for my church and for many people. My dad is a BYU grad and so are my brother and a a bunch of extended family, as well as many of my very close friends. But BYU sports are not the church. In fact, I am convinced that all BYU's Board of Trustees want out of BYU sports is that they reflect well on the church -- not that they produce national championships. If BYU were like the military service academies -- tough teams that stand for something honorable, but don't win big bowl games or NCs or even have winning seasons every year -- I think the Board would be happy.

    But the fan base ties the athletic teams to the church's mission and a lot of bad things come from that. At the same time, many in the fan base don't want to be called out on any bad behavior. It's a weird dynamic. I am glad to be a Utah fan and just to cheer for a university I am proud of, without all that religious baggage.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell



  29. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Two Utes View Post
    The BYU administration (and whoever they are reporting to) intends to connect BYU football to the Mission of the Church.
    Problem is, there is a broad way to interpret that. I mean, was that charge any different during the LaVell era? And yet BYU football had a MUCH different feel back then. They just went out with their "Ah, shucks!" persona and played straight up football. Sometimes winning, sometimes losing, but it wasn't directly connected to "living right on and off the field" and all of that stuff that's sprouted up in the last decade. The missionary aspect of the football team was just putting those darn weird Mormons in a normal-as-apple-pie scenario -- the American football field -- and showing the world that Mormons put their cleats on one foot at a time, too. The "lesson," trite as this sounds is that "Hey, for being weird, Mormons are mostly normal!"

    The hope, I always thought, was that BYU's actions would speak for themselves as to the values of the LDS church; THAT would be the message. It was about presenting one of the many normal sides of Mormonism. Now that's all been torn down with the Bronco brand of BYU football.

    There's a faction of members in the church that wears "Mormon peculiarity" as a badge of honor and they love to see that reflected by BYU's football team. I would argue though that infusing that overt peculiarity into the football team is having the opposite effect toward the school's/team's mission. Let the gospel be weird. Let the football be normal.

    Quote Originally Posted by UTEopia View Post
    I guess my problem is that I disagree with the overt association not because it offends me but because I believe it is detrimental to the actual mission.
    Yes. This ^^^.
    Last edited by FountainOfUte; 08-22-2013 at 08:56 PM.

  30. #30
    Senior Member Scorcho's Avatar
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    I think you can trace some of this “Zoobish” type behavior to some norms within the LDS Church. Growing up in the church I was taught that we were NEVER to question our leaders, whether it was our Bishop, EQ President or Young Men’s Leader whatever they said in the capacity of their leadership was unquestioning gospel. The reason given is that they were called of God, and are given personal revelation in accordance with their calling. I think that works well in most religious settings, but is scary dangerous outside of it.

    It seems like Brady Poppinga (or as the kids like to call him ... B-POP), Roger Reid and others take this principle to an extreme. They transfer this principle to other areas in their lives that are closely related to religion. Whether it’s a professor at an LDS Religious Institution, a friendly LDS financial planner/advisor MLM type (with guaranteed 25% annual investment returns), or a head coach of the football team, they view a similar line of LDS Church Authority (when none exists). I think that is why people like B-POP or others are vehemently defending Bronco’s position on coaching decisions or jersey’s, he’s been conditioned to not question those in authority especially when it has any religious correlation.
    Last edited by Scorcho; 08-22-2013 at 07:39 PM.

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