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Thread: I Wish I Knew How to Quit You - The BYU Sports Thread

  1. #3061
    Administrator U-Ute's Avatar
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    We have a winner.

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  2. #3062
    Quote Originally Posted by concerned View Post
    Denying the health benefits of coffee is like denying man made climate change. You can believe what you want.

    You're an anti-mormon.

  3. #3063

  4. #3064
    Senior Member Scorcho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by concerned View Post
    Even cougarboard acknowledges the obvious.

    http://www.cougarboard.com/board/mes...ml?id=18482758
    or they just desperately want to cross midfield


  5. #3065
    Quote Originally Posted by U-Ute View Post
    My anecdotal belief based on the fact I grew up here:

    The D&C says "no hot drinks". People knew that meant to be coffees and teas. The reason is the whole "your body is a temple" sort of thing. People extrapolated that since caffeine is the primary ingredient in both coffee and tea, it was the reason for the avoidance.

    So my sense is the ban is more a product of urban legend and the ecclesiastical race between the Jonses than the church. I don't ever remember the church proper (QoT or prophet) making a decree that caffeinated sodas were to be avoided.
    I think you nailed it on the head. There is a story of former church president David O McKay being at a play and asking for a drink. The person returned apologetically and said to him, "I'm sorry they only have cups with the coke logo on it." McKay responded with, "I don't care if there is Coke on the cup as long as there is Coke in the cup..."

    The caffeine ban as far as church doctrine has never existed.


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  6. #3066
    Quote Originally Posted by concerned View Post
    Denying the health benefits of coffee is like denying man made climate change. You can believe what you want.
    I guess I'm generally a bit skeptical of nutrition research, but I admit to having read nothing about coffee. I would not be surprised to find out that all the claimed benefits are real, but I also wouldn't be surprised to find that some of them have been overstated.

    I don't know if I'm ready to elevate caffeine onto the pedestal with marijuana as the only substances known to man with absolutely no negative side effects.

  7. #3067
    Quote Originally Posted by concerned View Post
    Denying the health benefits of coffee is like denying man made climate change. You can believe what you want.
    Many things are good for you, in moderation. Living in the land of coffee and doughnuts, there is no such thing as moderation.

  8. #3068
    Quote Originally Posted by tooblue View Post
    Many things are good for you, in moderation. Living in the land of coffee and doughnuts, there is no such thing as moderation.
    Tim Horton's! Mmmmm!
    “To me there is no dishonor in being wrong and learning. There is dishonor in willful ignorance and there is dishonor in disrespect.” James Hatch, former Navy Seal and current Yale student.

  9. #3069
    Quote Originally Posted by chrisrenrut View Post
    Tim Horton's! Mmmmm!
    "You've always got time for Tim Horton's"

  10. #3070
    Quote Originally Posted by tooblue View Post
    "You've always got time for Tim Horton's"
    Truth.
    "Don't apologize; it's not your fault. It's my fault for overestimating your competence."

  11. #3071
    Concerned is right. The stats on life expectancy for coffee drinkers is higher than for non-coffee drinkers. Too bad I don't like the stuff.

  12. #3072
    Quote Originally Posted by Applejack View Post
    Concerned is right. The stats on life expectancy for coffee drinkers is higher than for non-coffee drinkers. Too bad I don't like the stuff.
    Well, I think it's delicious. Or, at least it smells delicious.

  13. #3073
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    I Wish I Knew How to Quit You - The BYU Sports Thread

    All I know is that President Monson loves him some Dr. Pepper. I am following the prophet.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  14. #3074
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    All I know is that President Monson loves him some Dr. Pepper. I am following the prophet.
    At Pres. Monson's age, you are entitled to drink whatever you want.
    Last edited by LA Ute; 09-22-2017 at 09:52 AM.

  15. #3075
    Then there's this:

    "You don’t see hazard ratios mentioned a lot in superfood-type stories for a few reasons. One is laziness, but the more important issue is that hazard ratios often show how little impact the superfood actually had on study subjects. I can tell you with confidence that coffee lowers your risk of death. It’s even statistically significant! It’s less impressive if I say that the hazard ratio for men was 0.97, and the confidence interval was 0.96-0.98. Technically that interval is below 1.0, so technically I can say that coffee decreases your risk of death. It just might be by only two percent."

    http://www.popsci.com/coffee-drinker...-longer#page-2

    So, really, this whole coffee helps people live longer thing is like that supposed "gap" y'all are so fond of talking about

  16. #3076
    Quote Originally Posted by tooblue View Post
    So, really, this whole coffee helps people live longer thing is like that supposed "gap" y'all are so fond of talking about
    See, even toolblue agrees: drinking coffee means you live 7 years longer!

  17. #3077
    Quote Originally Posted by Applejack View Post
    See, even toolblue agrees: drinking coffee means you live 7 years longer!
    There's always the luck factor to consider.

  18. #3078
    My next door neighbors really live the word of wisdom, like the whole thing. They eat meat sparingly, etc. and even maintain a garden on their property that supplies their food for most of the year. She claims she goes to the store about once a month for odds and ends. They are both retired and the model of health. She will kindly point out how bad sugar, fast foods, red meat and everything else is for you. I am pretty sure that if a gun was held to her head and she was ordered to drink a soda or die, she’d take her chances with the bullet.

    Heck, they even have a solar oven that they frequently cook in on sunny days. Sometimes they ride a tandem bicycle to get around.

    They will survive the apocalypse.

    You can imagine what it must be like to live next to us, frequent BBQ-ers (not to mention smoking briskets, turkey, ribs, etc.) while my kids sit out on the swing set eating double-decker ice cream cones.

    But despite them living both the letter and the spirit of the law of health they will be the first to point out that they do it for the spiritual reasons.

    They are great neighbors, lest I appear to be mocking them. They’ve got it figured out in spectacular fashion in my opinion. Plus they share their garden spoils with us.


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  19. #3079
    Senior Member Scorcho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocker Ute View Post
    My next door neighbors really live the word of wisdom, like the whole thing. They eat meat sparingly, etc. and even maintain a garden on their property that supplies their food for most of the year. She claims she goes to the store about once a month for odds and ends. They are both retired and the model of health. She will kindly point out how bad sugar, fast foods, red meat and everything else is for you. I am pretty sure that if a gun was held to her head and she was ordered to drink a soda or die, she’d take her chances with the bullet.

    Heck, they even have a solar oven that they frequently cook in on sunny days. Sometimes they ride a tandem bicycle to get around.

    They will survive the apocalypse.

    You can imagine what it must be like to live next to us, frequent BBQ-ers (not to mention smoking briskets, turkey, ribs, etc.) while my kids sit out on the swing set eating double-decker ice cream cones.

    But despite them living both the letter and the spirit of the law of health they will be the first to point out that they do it for the spiritual reasons.

    They are great neighbors, lest I appear to be mocking them. They’ve got it figured out in spectacular fashion in my opinion. Plus they share their garden spoils with us.


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    can I get their address? I'd like to send them over a pizza and some crazy bread

  20. #3080
    I had neighbors like that. They lived the letter of the law on 'Wheat is for man...', right up to the point that their teenaged daughter with celiac disease had her hair fall out in clumps and nearly shed her entire gut lining.

  21. #3081
    Quote Originally Posted by U-Ute View Post
    My anecdotal belief based on the fact I grew up here:

    The D&C says "no hot drinks". People knew that meant to be coffees and teas. The reason is the whole "your body is a temple" sort of thing. People extrapolated that since caffeine is the primary ingredient in both coffee and tea, it was the reason for the avoidance.

    So my sense is the ban is more a product of urban legend and the ecclesiastical race between the Jonses than the church. I don't ever remember the church proper (QoT or prophet) making a decree that caffeinated sodas were to be avoided.
    This is my problem with the word of wisdom. It's all over the place and has evolved over time to fit our liking. It's the definition of "the philosophies of men, mingled with scripture."

    V2: "not by commandment or constraint"

    Yet, now it's a commandment.

    Hot drinks? So no coffee and tea, yet hot chocolate is ok? Oh, and herbal tea is ok, but iced tea is naughty? But it's not hot!

    12: "Yea, flesh also of beasts and of the fowls of the air, I, the Lord, have ordained for the use of man with thanksgiving; nevertheless they are to be used sparingly;"

    Now, we all know this isn't true. 80% of every meal should be meat. Heck, I've sat next to Holland at an all you can eat meat fest. Delicious.

    V17: "barley for all useful animals, and for mild drinks, as also other grain."

    Wait!!!! Beer is ok?!?!

    What we believe and what was given to Smith are two totally different things.

    The definition of the philosophies of men mingled with scripture.

  22. #3082
    Quote Originally Posted by Utah View Post
    This is my problem with the word of wisdom. It's all over the place and has evolved over time to fit our liking. It's the definition of "the philosophies of men, mingled with scripture."

    V2: "not by commandment or constraint"

    Yet, now it's a commandment.

    Hot drinks? So no coffee and tea, yet hot chocolate is ok? Oh, and herbal tea is ok, but iced tea is naughty? But it's not hot!

    12: "Yea, flesh also of beasts and of the fowls of the air, I, the Lord, have ordained for the use of man with thanksgiving; nevertheless they are to be used sparingly;"

    Now, we all know this isn't true. 80% of every meal should be meat. Heck, I've sat next to Holland at an all you can eat meat fest. Delicious.

    V17: "barley for all useful animals, and for mild drinks, as also other grain."

    Wait!!!! Beer is ok?!?!

    What we believe and what was given to Smith are two totally different things.

    The definition of the philosophies of men mingled with scripture.
    Completely agree. It also doesn't say anything about drugs, like marijuana or opiods. But everyone kind of assumes it's covered there.
    “To me there is no dishonor in being wrong and learning. There is dishonor in willful ignorance and there is dishonor in disrespect.” James Hatch, former Navy Seal and current Yale student.

  23. #3083
    Quote Originally Posted by Utah View Post
    This is my problem with the word of wisdom. It's all over the place and has evolved over time to fit our liking. It's the definition of "the philosophies of men, mingled with scripture."

    V2: "not by commandment or constraint"

    Yet, now it's a commandment.

    Hot drinks? So no coffee and tea, yet hot chocolate is ok? Oh, and herbal tea is ok, but iced tea is naughty? But it's not hot!

    12: "Yea, flesh also of beasts and of the fowls of the air, I, the Lord, have ordained for the use of man with thanksgiving; nevertheless they are to be used sparingly;"

    Now, we all know this isn't true. 80% of every meal should be meat. Heck, I've sat next to Holland at an all you can eat meat fest. Delicious.

    V17: "barley for all useful animals, and for mild drinks, as also other grain."

    Wait!!!! Beer is ok?!?!

    What we believe and what was given to Smith are two totally different things.

    The definition of the philosophies of men mingled with scripture.
    Isn't the perspective of the LDS that if a more modern prophet has shed light on the matter that it overrides what Joseph had to say on the matter?

  24. #3084
    This discussion reminds me of a guy I met on my mission. He was a war vet from the Vietnam era and he had BAD PTSD. He was fine most of the time, but when he went off the rails........oh man.........he would ride out on his row boat out into the middle of a lake and would howl at the moon and all kinds of nutty stuff.

    Anyway, he only came to church once in the 9 months I was there in that area. When he showed up he was dressed up as an astronaut. He came in during sunday school and demanded to speak with the bishop immediately. We stayed close by as the bishop took him in to his office. He then proceeded to yell about how the ward wasn't obeying the word of wisdom because every time he came to a ward party or church all he saw was a bunch of fat cows walking around and all he saw served at the parties was piles of meat.

  25. #3085
    Quote Originally Posted by UtahsMrSports View Post
    Isn't the perspective of the LDS that if a more modern prophet has shed light on the matter that it overrides what Joseph had to say on the matter?
    Yes. The current prophet has final say. BUT, they've never come out and said. There is no new, "thus saith the LORD..."

    If the D&C has changed, shouldn't there be a new section stating the change?

    So, since there is no new revelation, the word of wisdom rules right?

    The same scripture that says wine is ok, beer is great and meat is bad? Oh, and says it's not a commandment.

    The church does not act like a church that has current revelation.

    It's become philosophies of men mingles with scripture.

  26. #3086
    Quote Originally Posted by Utah View Post
    Yes. The current prophet has final say. BUT, they've never come out and said. There is no new, "thus saith the LORD..."

    If the D&C has changed, shouldn't there be a new section stating the change?

    So, since there is no new revelation, the word of wisdom rules right?

    The same scripture that says wine is ok, beer is great and meat is bad? Oh, and says it's not a commandment.

    The church does not act like a church that has current revelation.

    It's become philosophies of men mingles with scripture.
    The WoW isn't "doctrine," at least not how I understand that term. The doctrine is the idea that our bodies are sacred, we need to respect them and take care of them, and learn to master our bodies with our spirits. As with lots of "doctrines," the way our leaders (or the Lord) ask us to apply those doctrines in our times and circumstances may change. The WoW is essentially guidance on some ways to do that (and, as many have noted in this thread, that is exactly what section 89 says; it's essentially guidance). Over the years, leaders have received additional, ongoing revelation about certain dietary issues. It isn't really changing anything in the D&C, it's consistent with it but just takes it to the next level and essentially makes it a commandment. This isn't really surprising on several levels; people were given time to become accustomed to these standards before they were expected to abandon them completely (and even after certain aspects of the WoW went from advice to commandment, leaders were usually pretty lenient).

  27. #3087
    Quote Originally Posted by tooblue View Post
    There's always the luck factor to consider.
    Yes. There is.

    The odds of two evenly matched teams squaring off 7 straight times with the good guys winning all 7 is .007 percent. (1/2)^7, Sancho can check my math.

  28. #3088
    Quote Originally Posted by Applejack View Post
    Yes. There is.

    The odds of two evenly matched teams squaring off 7 straight times with the good guys winning all 7 is .007 percent. (1/2)^7, Sancho can check my math.
    So, you admit the two teams are evenly matched and that it is truly unusual one team has prevailed seven times despite the odds ... by the way, that's how luck works ;-)

  29. #3089
    Quote Originally Posted by NorthwestUteFan View Post
    I had neighbors like that. They lived the letter of the law on 'Wheat is for man...', right up to the point that their teenaged daughter with celiac disease had her hair fall out in clumps and nearly shed her entire gut lining.
    They are nothing like that. Just live healthily.

  30. #3090
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocker Ute View Post
    They are nothing like that. Just live healthily.
    I believe in moderation in all things. Even moderation.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

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