If they were really serious about BYU football as a missionary tool... They should get the word out to their fans to stop all their douche-baggery. That's gotta be dickin' up the effort, ya know.
Are they going to bash people into conversion?
They talk a good game, but their actions say something else.
It's like a gay orgy over there, I guess it's cool for some folks... but I have no interest.
Last edited by Devildog; 08-22-2013 at 04:38 PM.
Problem is, there is a broad way to interpret that. I mean, was that charge any different during the LaVell era? And yet BYU football had a MUCH different feel back then. They just went out with their "Ah, shucks!" persona and played straight up football. Sometimes winning, sometimes losing, but it wasn't directly connected to "living right on and off the field" and all of that stuff that's sprouted up in the last decade. The missionary aspect of the football team was just putting those darn weird Mormons in a normal-as-apple-pie scenario -- the American football field -- and showing the world that Mormons put their cleats on one foot at a time, too. The "lesson," trite as this sounds is that "Hey, for being weird, Mormons are mostly normal!"
The hope, I always thought, was that BYU's actions would speak for themselves as to the values of the LDS church; THAT would be the message. It was about presenting one of the many normal sides of Mormonism. Now that's all been torn down with the Bronco brand of BYU football.
There's a faction of members in the church that wears "Mormon peculiarity" as a badge of honor and they love to see that reflected by BYU's football team. I would argue though that infusing that overt peculiarity into the football team is having the opposite effect toward the school's/team's mission. Let the gospel be weird. Let the football be normal.
Yes. This ^^^.
Last edited by FountainOfUte; 08-22-2013 at 08:56 PM.
I think you can trace some of this “Zoobish” type behavior to some norms within the LDS Church. Growing up in the church I was taught that we were NEVER to question our leaders, whether it was our Bishop, EQ President or Young Men’s Leader whatever they said in the capacity of their leadership was unquestioning gospel. The reason given is that they were called of God, and are given personal revelation in accordance with their calling. I think that works well in most religious settings, but is scary dangerous outside of it.
It seems like Brady Poppinga (or as the kids like to call him ... B-POP), Roger Reid and others take this principle to an extreme. They transfer this principle to other areas in their lives that are closely related to religion. Whether it’s a professor at an LDS Religious Institution, a friendly LDS financial planner/advisor MLM type (with guaranteed 25% annual investment returns), or a head coach of the football team, they view a similar line of LDS Church Authority (when none exists). I think that is why people like B-POP or others are vehemently defending Bronco’s position on coaching decisions or jersey’s, he’s been conditioned to not question those in authority especially when it has any religious correlation.
Last edited by Scorcho; 08-22-2013 at 07:39 PM.
There are lots of weird BYU fans. They roam predominantly on CB and a few on the old CUF but to some of us, this is just a great damn rivalry and I want to beat the shit out of the U...just because. No religion involved. Hell, most of you are Mormon.
Good luck, but I hope we destroy you.
Love,
Viking
"Ninety feet between home plate and first base may be the closest man has ever come to perfection." - Red Smith
I come to this thread just to read Utah's posts.
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
--Yeats
“True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”
--John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell
"Be a philosopher. A man can compromise to gain a point. It has become apparent that a man can, within limits, follow his inclinations within the arms of the Church if he does so discreetly." - The Walking Drum
"And here’s what life comes down to—not how many years you live, but how many of those years are filled with bullshit that doesn’t amount to anything to satisfy the requirements of some dickhead you’ll never get the pleasure of punching in the face." – Adam Carolla
I'm not very good with numbers, but I would guess there are 20-30 posts here on other threads for every 1 post on this one.
I would also guess that you BYU fans are among the top posters on this thread. I suppose I could figure out where your board is, go there, post every day in a thread about herpes,and then point out that the herpes thread is your #1.
I wouldn't consider it an accusation anyway. More like a badge of honor.
This thread is serving its intended purpose perfectly. All of the obsession in one tidy little place. The rest of this glorious board remains uncluttered from tired honor code jokes, the ubershmarm of Captain Bronconi, and the smooth country stylings of the pug nosed Dave Rose.
And Nate Cooper can die of gonorrhea and roast in hell.
Our BYU brethren will always be hovering nearby to keep us in check. I personally think it is derived from a Home Teaching guilt complex. I do have to say Brother Lebowski, if you are going to stop by, don't you think you should share a message and ask us if you can do anything for us?
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
--Yeats
“True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”
--John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell
I'm headed down to Tempe, but a quick diversion on the BYU dumpster fire status:
The dumpster fire rages on, it's melted the vinyl decorative fence around it, the 2x4s that keep it from rolling away are charcoal, and the dumpster is headed down the street toward Tom Holmoe's house.
- Evidently Brian Logan (their DB of a few years ago) is picking Middle Tennessee, 42-21
- According to "Monte", a local Utah radio guy, Tom Holmoe held a meeting with the players, and re-iterated his support for Bronco, to which some players expressed great disappointment and a desire to quit football.
- Tom Holmoe (who I don't really have anything against - I think he's a decent guy) is a SF Giants fan, it appears, and tweeted out about the World Series:
TH: "Last name Ever, first name Greatest - Madison Bumgarner!" (the Giants great pitcher)
Random Fan: "Hey Tom, maybe you should be working on your football team"
TH: "I see you're a Dodgers fan, so I understand your anger"
Fan: "I'm also a BYU football fan, so now you understand my anger even better!"
As Bill Cosby would advise, Tom... Tom... Tom... don't lean into the punches!
I want to take a moment out of my Stanford victory celebration to congratulate BYU on becoming bowl eligible. Must taste sweet to prove all those doubters wrong.
This has been one hell of a season, especially for Ute fans who've been around long enough to remember how utterly frustrating and demeaning it was in the bad old days.
Not playing BYU this year or next is not just a well-timed break in the rivalry, it gives both fan bases a chance to re-evaluate, a lot of things.
We're now in a position in this rivalry we previously resented deeply, when the shoe was on the other foot. And it's not just a reversal of fortunes, it's two teams finding what are (increasingly clear) different levels in the CFB landscape.
Things are changing before our eyes. We're going to have opportunities to be unlike who we resented, previously.
Look at this post: http://www.cougarboard.com/board/mes...ml?id=13296731
The Utah tent is getting bigger. I've completely understood Chris Hill's reluctance on stadium expansion. I don't think he ever really considered the need for a bigger tent, from folks we never guessed would be interested in joining.
The P5 / G5 separation gives these people some cover to give us some support. Not playing them next year gives them more cover.
How many people go to Colorado Rockies games for no other reason than it's the major leagues?
Guess what? We're the ML CFB franchise in Utah, with a couple of interesting AAA teams also in the market. The sands in the hourglass are shifting.
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
--Yeats
“True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”
--John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell
So, I dug through my spreadsheets and here is how Wilson and Hill stack up:
I skipped 2012, because TW only played vs P5 and TH only played against mid majors (MM).
TW vs P5 2013: 58%, 267 yards, 2 TD, 3 INT, 6 yards/rush attempt, 1 TD/game
TH vs P5 2013: 46%, 210 yards, .71 TD, .85 INT, 5.5 yards/rush attempt, .85 TD/game
in 2013, vs P5 competition, Wilson was the better QB when Wilson was healthy.
TW vs MM 2013: 67%, 280 yards/gm, 2 TD, 0 INT, 5 yards/rush attempt, 1 TD/game
TH vs MM 2013: 66%, 235 yards/gm, 2 TD, 1 INT, 5 yards/rush attempt, 0.8 TD/game
Again, TW was the better QB vs MM comp.
TW vs P5 2014: 60%, 173 yards, 1 TD, 0.5 INT, 1 yard/rush attempt, 0 TD/game
TH vs P5 2014: 51%, 215 yards, 1 TD, 1 INT, 5 yards/rush attempt, 1 TD/game
Would you definitely take Hill over Wilson? I'm not so sure. Kind of a toss up.
TW vs MM 2014: 64%, 201 yards, 2 TD, 0 INT, 5 yards/rush attempt, 1 TD/game
TH vs MM 2014: 70%, 202 yards, 1.5 TD, 0.667 INT, 6 yards/rush attempt, 1 TD/game
Again, where is Hill "clearly" the better QB? Kind of a toss up.
Career averages:
TW vs P5: 60%, 171 yards, 1 TD, 1 INT, 1.42 yards/rush attempt, 0.315 TD/game
TH vs P5: 49%, 204 yards, 0.77 TD, 0.77 INT, 5 yards/rush attempt, 1 TD/game
TW vs MM: 65%, 240 yards, 2 TD, 0 INT, 5.5 yards/rush attempt, 1 TD/game
TH vs MM: 66%, 213 yards, 2 TD, 1 INT, 5.5 yards/rush attempt, .77 TD/game
TW vs P5: 9-10
TH vs P5: 4-5
TW vs MM: 6-0
TH vs MM: 9-0
Utah's record years TW started: 5-7, 5-7, 9-4 (final ranking of 21)
BYU's record years TH started: 8-5, 8-5, 8-5
Now, who knows what BYU could have done last year if Hill had stayed healthy. That being said, who knows how Utah could have been in 2013 if Wilson had stayed healthy. We were 4-2 and had just beat #5 Stanford. So, the point is injuries happen.
Taysom Hill is a product of some highlight reels and subpar competition. Statistically, he is not heads and shoulders above Wilson. Like I said, I'm not sure I trade Hill for Wilson. They both have their ups and downs. Wilson is a better passer. Hill is a better runner. Don't get suckered into some highlights and stats padded by mid-majors. Neither one is a very good QB.
tl/dr
They have eerily, identical stats. Neither one is a great QB, and neither one is a heisman QB. Wilson has led a top 25 team, Hill has not. That is about the only number that is different between the two.
How convenient of you to give a half-painted canvas of Hill's rushing statistics. He ran for 1,344 yards in 2013, a figure that would rank fourth all-time at Utah for single-season rushing. He might very well rank higher if you use the NFL model for rushing yards, which takes sacks surrendered and applies it to passing yards, not rushing yards. His 259 rushing yards against Texas that year would be a Utah single-game school record. If Hill has another 2013-like rushing season this year, he would threaten the career rushing mark at Utah (3,219, Eddie Johnson).
No one, and I mean no one, with any credibility in the national CFB sporting press would dare attempt to make the argument you're trying to make. They would get laughed out of the room. Hill's running ability is miles ahead of whatever Wilson's best quality is, and as you've clearly shown, there's not a lot of separation between both as passers. Eerily, identical stats? That's fanboy garbage right there. Find me the stat in which Wilson ranks as an all-timer like Hill has with rushing.
Football stats are mostly meaningless. I know by the eye test that Hill is the better QB. I'm okay with that. I like our QB a lot, and I think we are better than BYU in pretty much every other position except maybe TE and WR.
I think part of his point was that Hill's stats are inflated by the number of mid majors he plays against. Hard to compare his overall stats with Wilson's when Wilson is playing one of the toughest schedules in the nation.
He could have also mentioned that Wilson played in an offense that wasn't catered to him, while Hill gets every opportunity to showcase his skill and pad his stats.
I suspect Wilson will have a great 2015.