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Thread: I Wish I Knew How to Quit You - The BYU Sports Thread

  1. #2971
    Hans Olsen apparently is carrying Kalani's water and gave the dad radio time. Bad form, if you ask me. Let the schools work it out.


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  2. #2972
    Tukuafu's father was just on 1280. He wasn't very informed about what happened and what is happening. The son came home from his mission in November and decided he wanted to go to BYU. The father did not meet with the USU coaches and it does not sound like the son physically met with them to inform them of the decision. He enrolled in BYU. He may or may not be on athletic scholarship although he is receiving financial aid. There are kids who qualify for federal grants and who are on athletic scholarships. An athletic scholarship does not preclude federal money based financial aid. He is not practicing with team. I am sure that BYU does not have him on the 105 allowed in camp because they don't think he will be eligible.

  3. #2973
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    I Wish I Knew How to Quit You - The BYU Sports Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Utebiquitous View Post
    The Y's talking points - particularly Sitake's have been: "if a player doesn't want to be there then why would you force them" and "I would never make a player stay who didn't want to be at the Y." Sitake's also stated that they don't recruit players while on missions. It's the latter piece that rankles Utah and I'm sure USU. Even though Whittingham and Scalley, in particular, maintain a good relationship with Sitake, they are troubled that he actively writes a few of Utah's players on missions. They've called him out on it and his reply is that if he has a relationship with them he's going to write them and offer support while they're on their mission. Utah's policy is the exact opposite. If a BYU player who they recruited and know goes on a mission they are not written or communicated with. Whittingham views writing missionaries as a recruiting/stewarding activity. The U isn't above discussing a change with players who go on missions but it's following the mission service.
    Most of us who've served LDS missions know how we all needed a little time to adjust to the cold, cruel world when we returned. Wittingly or not, BYU takes advantage of that unsettled mindset when it recruits missionaries who've played or committed elsewhere. It's wrong.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  4. #2974
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    Most of us who've served LDS missions know how we all needed a little time to adjust to the cold, cruel world when we returned. Wittingly or not, BYU takes advantage of that unsettled mindset when it recruits missionaries who've played or committed elsewhere. It's wrong.
    Seriously? Young men go on missions and then decide to go to BYU. Whether they play football or not it is very common. Each of my boys heavily entertained the idea—it's very normal.

    Sitake is on record as saying he does not recruit players on missions, because he doesn't. But if they decide they want to transfer upon returning home, he welcomes them gladly and would be a fool not to. Don't be a dip sh** LA.

  5. #2975
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tooblue View Post
    Seriously? Young men go on missions and then decide to go to BYU. Whether they play football or not it is very common. Each of my boys heavily entertained the idea—it's very normal.

    Sitake is on record as saying he does not recruit players on missions, because he doesn't. But if they decide they want to transfer upon returning home, he welcomes them gladly and would be a fool not to. Don't be a dip sh** LA.
    Yeah, I'm serious. And I'm more of a doofus than a dip sh**.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  6. #2976
    In our home growing up, dip sh** was both a sincere statement of how one feels concerning someone else's behaviour, as we'll as a term of endearment. Though, I'm regretting the latter sentiment, if you truly are serious.

    The kid wants to go to BYU. There was no recruitment. The jealousy you all are exhibiting here is asinine. You don't see me getting all uppity about the five star receiver joining your team after his 4th run in with the law do you? Everyone deserves a 5th chance after all.

  7. #2977
    Quote Originally Posted by tooblue View Post
    Seriously? Young men go on missions and then decide to go to BYU. Whether they play football or not it is very common. Each of my boys heavily entertained the idea—it's very normal.

    Sitake is on record as saying he does not recruit players on missions, because he doesn't. But if they decide they want to transfer upon returning home, he welcomes them gladly and would be a fool not to. Don't be a dip sh** LA.
    Call it what you want, but Sitake communicates with missionaries all the time. Bronco did, too (I know of one kid Bronco emailed all the time even after the kid had actually signed his LOI with another school, which was about as blatant of a recruiting violation as you will see). Sitake may say that it's not "recruiting," bu the fact is that he's constantly communicating with a lot of these kids for the entire time they're gone.

  8. #2978
    Quote Originally Posted by tooblue View Post
    Seriously? Young men go on missions and then decide to go to BYU. Whether they play football or not it is very common. Each of my boys heavily entertained the idea—it's very normal.

    Sitake is on record as saying he does not recruit players on missions, because he doesn't. But if they decide they want to transfer upon returning home, he welcomes them gladly and would be a fool not to. Don't be a dip sh** LA.
    Here is my take on LDS missions. If you plan to go before enrolling. Don't sign an LOI. If you do sign an LOI and leave before enrolling, that should be binding on you when you return and it should be binding on the institution. As it currently stands, it does tie a kid to a school subject to normal transfer rules, but it does not tie the school to the kid. The school can say sorry we don't have room. I think that is wrong.

    Recruit and write are different things? I think they are one in the same, but to each their own. I know he/his staff write to kids they have relationships with (not a technical violation of NCAA rules) who committed/signed elsewhere while they are on their missions. Kalani says he does not recruit kids on missions, fine. wink, wink

    Utah never had verbally committed kids going on missions before enrolling, sign LOI's. They did this past recruiting class. It is my understanding that Utah will have kids sign LOI's while on their missions the December or February before they return. This doesn't hurt Utah because the recruiting rules are changing and you can sign 25 and initial 25 and push forwards will no longer be allowed to play in the Fall and count against the following year's numbers.

  9. #2979
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tooblue View Post
    In our home growing up, dip sh** was both a sincere statement of how one feels concerning someone else's behaviour, as we'll as a term of endearment. Though, I'm regretting the latter sentiment, if you truly are serious.

    The kid wants to go to BYU. There was no recruitment. The jealousy you all are exhibiting here is asinine. You don't see me getting all uppity about the five star receiver joining your team after his 4th run in with the law do you? Everyone deserves a 5th chance after all.
    I'm not offended, tooblue. Just joshing around with you. The way the recruiting thing happens with missionaries simply bugs me. That's all. It's not the end of the world. I understand why BYU does it. They have plenty of disadvantages, being a church-owned school, and they need to press what advantages they do have because of that status. I don't think it makes a big difference.. It just bugs me. I think I have a constitutional right to be bugged. Maybe you don't have that in Canada, but I can't be responsible for your choice of residence.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  10. #2980
    Quote Originally Posted by Scratch View Post
    Call it what you want, but Sitake communicates with missionaries all the time. Bronco did, too (I know of one kid Bronco emailed all the time even after the kid had actually signed his LOI with another school, which was about as blatant of a recruiting violation as you will see). Sitake may say that it's not "recruiting," bu the fact is that he's constantly communicating with a lot of these kids for the entire time they're gone.
    I live in the "mission field." I've met a few D1 football players over the past several years. A couple prominent ones signed with BYU, one prominent player signed with Utah. I'm as big a college football fan as you can find. Taking every opportunity to talk about the sport etc. I've asked them directly, do the coaches contact you in the mission field; do other coaches from other schools contact and still recruit you? The answer: They sometimes got an email from the coach they committed to, but never got a letter from an opposing team's coach ... the Utah player said: "I wouldn't even open the email, even if Bronco did email me."

    Your sentiments on what's going on are overstated.

  11. #2981
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tooblue View Post
    I live in the "mission field." I've met a few D1 football players over the past several years. A couple prominent ones signed with BYU, one prominent player signed with Utah. I'm as big a college football fan as you can find. Taking every opportunity to talk about the sport etc. I've asked them directly, do the coaches contact you in the mission field; do other coaches from other schools contact and still recruit you? The answer: They sometimes got an email from the coach they committed to, but never got a letter from an opposing team's coach ... the Utah player said: "I wouldn't even open the email, even if Bronco did email me."

    Your sentiments on what's going on are overstated.
    What I have personally seen happen is that members who are BYU alums, fans, even former players, talk to the missionaries and put them in touch with the coaches. This is especially effective when the person doing the encouraging is a high-level ecclesiastical officer. The missionaries reach out to the BYU coaches, who happily take their calls and stay in touch with them. It's probably totally legal. It just bugs me, which, as I noted above, is my constitutional right.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  12. #2982
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    What I have personally seen happen is that members who are BYU alums, fans, even former players, talk to the missionaries and put them in touch with the coaches. This is especially effective when the person doing the encouraging is a high-level ecclesiastical officer. The missionaries reach out to the BYU coaches, who happily take their calls and stay in touch with them. It's probably totally legal. It just bugs me, which, as I noted above, is my constitutional right.
    What I have personally seen happen is those conversations are initiated primarily by the missionary, and not the ecclesiastical leader, or a coach. It is my Charter of Rights mandate to speak my mind on this subject (unless, my speech is deemed hateful, then I could be censured, ostracized, lose my job, called before a human rights commission and fined heavily).

  13. #2983
    Quote Originally Posted by tooblue View Post
    Each of my boys heavily entertained the idea—it's very normal.
    Based on the limited evidence we have, I assume your boys are total nut jobs. No offense.

    I have always been in favor of open transfer rules. If a players wants out, he gets out. There should be no release required. The only stipulation is that no player should be allowed to transfer to an opponent on any future schedule.

    BYU will always prey on the vulnerable and scared. The kids I've known in Wisconsin, Carolina, Louisiana, and Colorado who go there are afraid of state schools, non-Mormons, and of not meeting LDS girls. This is why BYU exists. So, yeah, they will always poach missionaries for their football team. It's one of the strongest cards they can play. Sitake's job depends on one thing only - winning. He will do everything he can for every edge he can get. Even Whittingham's high road is strategic. He knows that some players and parents will respect the fact that he respects their mission enough not to recruit them during their service. He will win some folks over that way.

  14. #2984
    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    Based on the limited evidence we have, I assume your boys are total nut jobs. No offense.

    I have always been in favor of open transfer rules. If a players wants out, he gets out. There should be no release required. The only stipulation is that no player should be allowed to transfer to an opponent on any future schedule.

    BYU will always prey on the vulnerable and scared. The kids I've known in Wisconsin, Carolina, Louisiana, and Colorado who go there are afraid of state schools, non-Mormons, and of not meeting LDS girls. This is why BYU exists. So, yeah, they will always poach missionaries for their football team. It's one of the strongest cards they can play. Sitake's job depends on one thing only - winning. He will do everything he can for every edge he can get. Even Whittingham's high road is strategic. He knows that some players and parents will respect the fact that he respects their mission enough not to recruit them during their service. He will win some folks over that way.
    They don't attend BYU or even BYU Idaho. What's more, I didn't attend BYU or any school in Idaho, so ... take off eh, hosehead.

  15. #2985
    I don't blame Sitake for recruiting missionaries. It's his only hope. If he lost that pipeline, BYU would die and die quickly.

    BYU's high school recruiting sucks. Plain and simple. What boosts their classes is their missionary recruiting.

    Sitake knows this. He can't get Tualatao (spelling?) out of high school. He can't get Harvey Langi out of high school. Talent like that doesn't want to play for G5 BYU.

    BUT, when the spirit is strong, when a boy thinks his role in life is to be Bishop and have lots of future missionaries, that's Sitake's best shot at getting big time talent.

    So, he takes it.

    In the same vein, I don't blame Wells for fighting back. What Sitake and other BYU coaches do is dirty and wrong.

    Sounds like Sitake reached out to Harrison Handley and tried to get him to graduate transfer to BYU. He and Detmer will do whatever it takes to win.

    Also, I do believe Detmer was sanctioned as a high school coach for paying players. If you think he is suddenly following the rules....

    Ha ha.

  16. #2986
    Quote Originally Posted by Utah View Post
    I don't blame Sitake for recruiting missionaries. It's his only hope. If he lost that pipeline, BYU would die and die quickly.

    BYU's high school recruiting sucks. Plain and simple. What boosts their classes is their missionary recruiting.

    Sitake knows this. He can't get Tualatao (spelling?) out of high school. He can't get Harvey Langi out of high school. Talent like that doesn't want to play for G5 BYU.

    BUT, when the spirit is strong, when a boy thinks his role in life is to be Bishop and have lots of future missionaries, that's Sitake's best shot at getting big time talent.

    So, he takes it.

    In the same vein, I don't blame Wells for fighting back. What Sitake and other BYU coaches do is dirty and wrong.

    Sounds like Sitake reached out to Harrison Handley and tried to get him to graduate transfer to BYU. He and Detmer will do whatever it takes to win.

    Also, I do believe Detmer was sanctioned as a high school coach for paying players. If you think he is suddenly following the rules....

    Ha ha.
    lol ... Utah, the Donald Trump of utahby5.com

  17. #2987
    Quote Originally Posted by tooblue View Post
    lol ... Utah, the Donald Trump of utahby5.com
    The irony in your post is fantastic.

  18. #2988
    I love the fact that this hullabaloo is over a 2* kid whose last time on a field as a player was at East high school in the fall of 2013.

  19. #2989
    Quote Originally Posted by NorthwestUteFan View Post
    I love the fact that this hullabaloo is over a 2* kid whose last time on a field as a player was at East high school in the fall of 2013.
    Utes gonna do what utes gonna do ... is that the irony Utah is speaking of

  20. #2990
    Quote Originally Posted by tooblue View Post
    Utes gonna do what utes gonna do ... is that the irony Utah is speaking of
    You seem to really defend the idea that Kalani/his staff and Bronco/his staff before him do not write missionaries who signed/committed to other schools before leaving on their missions. Why do you care one way or the other?

  21. #2991
    Quote Originally Posted by NorthwestUteFan View Post
    I love the fact that this hullabaloo is over a 2* kid whose last time on a field as a player was at East high school in the fall of 2013.
    He's a young 'un to them. I do believe BYU has some starters from the 2010 and 2011 recruiting class playing for them this fall.

  22. #2992
    Quote Originally Posted by UTEopia View Post
    You seem to really defend the idea that Kalani/his staff and Bronco/his staff before him do not write missionaries who signed/committed to other schools before leaving on their missions. Why do you care one way or the other?
    I care because I find the misrepresentations dishonest and distasteful.

  23. #2993
    Quote Originally Posted by tooblue View Post
    I care because I find the misrepresentations dishonest and distasteful.
    So do I and one day a salt lake media person will have the guts to ask Kalani directly if he/his staff has ever had any communication with kids on missions he had a prior relationship with who committed/signed with another school and Kalani will answer that he does not recruit kids on missions and the salt lake media will say, that is not what I asked, and will re-ask the question and Kalani will either be truthful (Knowing him, I think he will do this), say nothing or reiterate that he does not recruit kids on missions.

    Now, he doesn't communicate every week or even every month, but I know for a fact that he has sent notes to some kids 3 or 4 times during the mission. If you have a preexisting relationship, it is not an NCAA violation to do so, even if the kid has signed an LOI with another school. I am not really bothered by it.

  24. #2994
    Quote Originally Posted by tooblue View Post
    They don't attend BYU or even BYU Idaho. What's more, I didn't attend BYU or any school in Idaho, so ... take off eh, hosehead.
    Ah, couldn't get in?

  25. #2995
    Quote Originally Posted by Scratch View Post
    Call it what you want, but Sitake communicates with missionaries all the time. Bronco did, too (I know of one kid Bronco emailed all the time even after the kid had actually signed his LOI with another school, which was about as blatant of a recruiting violation as you will see). Sitake may say that it's not "recruiting," bu the fact is that he's constantly communicating with a lot of these kids for the entire time they're gone.
    One way to combat what BYU coaches are doing with missionaries is for LDS coaches on other staffs around the country to reach out and similarly "encourage" LDS players on missions in their service to the church. If coaches around the country don't know where a missionary is serving, some legal action to ensure equal access to that information might help expose the practice.

    BYU coaches get away with it because other schools let it happen. If there's loophole in the recruiting rules because a coach and player belong to the same church, then that loophole should be maximized... by all LDS coaches, wherever they coach across America, then maybe BYU will cut stop exploiting the grey area, or the rules will become stricter.

  26. #2996
    Quote Originally Posted by Applejack View Post
    Ah, couldn't get in?
    My boys listened to the Prophet's counsel to study close to home. I went to art school ... I wanted to draw nude models that were actually nude
    Last edited by tooblue; 08-03-2017 at 08:21 AM.

  27. #2997
    Quote Originally Posted by UTEopia View Post
    So do I and one day a salt lake media person will have the guts to ask Kalani directly if he/his staff has ever had any communication with kids on missions he had a prior relationship with who committed/signed with another school and Kalani will answer that he does not recruit kids on missions and the salt lake media will say, that is not what I asked, and will re-ask the question and Kalani will either be truthful (Knowing him, I think he will do this), say nothing or reiterate that he does not recruit kids on missions.

    Now, he doesn't communicate every week or even every month, but I know for a fact that he has sent notes to some kids 3 or 4 times during the mission. If you have a preexisting relationship, it is not an NCAA violation to do so, even if the kid has signed an LOI with another school. I am not really bothered by it.
    Of course, then they will have to ask the same question of Whittingham ...

  28. #2998
    Quote Originally Posted by Ma'ake View Post
    One way to combat what BYU coaches are doing with missionaries is for LDS coaches on other staffs around the country to reach out and similarly "encourage" LDS players on missions in their service to the church. If coaches around the country don't know where a missionary is serving, some legal action to ensure equal access to that information might help expose the practice.

    BYU coaches get away with it because other schools let it happen. If there's loophole in the recruiting rules because a coach and player belong to the same church, then that loophole should be maximized... by all LDS coaches, wherever they coach across America, then maybe BYU will cut stop exploiting the grey area, or the rules will become stricter.
    Please ... no one is letting anything happen, implying they are complicit in wrong doing. There is no wrong doing. It's the athlete on a mission who initiates the contact.

    Isn't that what this is supposedly all about: holding a young man accountable for his decisions—per Wells and USU?
    Last edited by tooblue; 08-03-2017 at 08:25 AM.

  29. #2999
    Quote Originally Posted by tooblue View Post
    It's the athlete on a mission who initiates the contact.
    You really think this is true? I've always loved the gentle, naive Canadian spirit. It's endearing.

  30. #3000
    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    You really think this is true? I've always loved the gentle, naive Canadian spirit. It's endearing.
    lol ... it's always someone else's fault. Talk about naive.

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