I Wish I Knew How to Quit You - The BYU Sports Thread

[UTEopia]

Guys like Popinga and their stupid correlation of BYU to the Kingdom of God (and unfortunately I truly believe that a large percentage of the fan base believes the same thing on some level or another) is enough for me to be quite happy to not compete against them on any field or court or wherever ever, ever again. I am a participating member of the LDS Church and have a degree from BYU and I just don't understand that type of thinking. Yet it is engrained in their culture. I was told by a friend of a current player that after one workout this past winter Bronco gathered the troops and started to tell them that if they all lived better off the field they would be blessed with the realization of their football goals. I happen to disagree with this type of thinking, but some people lap it up. I think it is a turn off to most people who are not LDS and many who are and is ultimately a detriment to the mission of the LDS Church. I have always believed that the mission of BYU is not to do missionary work in the traditional sense, but rather a place for rallying the already converted.

Although I have lived in Utah the majority of my life, the years that I spent living outside the State were refreshing because nobody gives a crap about the LDS Church one way or another and so it was never an issue in any part of my life other than my religious activity. In Utah it permeates the fabric of everything and becomes the focal point for so much chest thumping and finger pointing that it becomes almost nauseating.

Anyway, I am one person who will not miss playing them one bit the next two years. I will try to avoid the 365 days of constant comparison and whining by the media that we are not playing them. I accomplish this by not listening to the local media and not reading their coverage. I will listen to Bill and Hans on some days and will read stuff by Dirk Facer, but I read more by Jon Wilner than anyone else to get my PAC 12 coverage.

[Joe Public]

Go Cougars!

[Senioritis]

Really, I have a lot of respect for fans of the BYU football. What a pisser to have to wade through all of the chicanery to get to the actual sports of it.

They talk incessantly about the how Board of Trustees is keeping them down, they conjure up neverending rumors about the alcohol-related activities of 18 year old recruits, and they force themselves into rabid excitement about what channel their games are on, rather than who their opponent is. (Tangentially, I would like to say here that the team does a great job of adhering to the policy of playing the games on the date and time at which they are scheduled!)

Goatnapper spent like five seasons working feverishly to convince himself that Captain Bronconi wasn't a weirdo, he was just acting like a weirdo to convince his genuine weirdo overlords that he was one of them, and in such a way he could handle honor code violations on his own.

How tiring. I mean, good for them, but how tiring.

[Two Utes]

Guys like Popinga and their stupid correlation of BYU to the Kingdom of God (and unfortunately I truly believe that a large percentage of the fan base believes the same thing on some level or another) is enough for me to be quite happy to not compete against them on any field or court or wherever ever, ever again. I am a participating member of the LDS Church and have a degree from BYU and I just don't understand that type of thinking. Yet it is engrained in their culture. I was told by a friend of a current player that after one workout this past winter Bronco gathered the troops and started to tell them that if they all lived better off the field they would be blessed with the realization of their football goals. I happen to disagree with this type of thinking, but some people lap it up. I think it is a turn off to most people who are not LDS and many who are and is ultimately a detriment to the mission of the LDS Church. I have always believed that the mission of BYU is not to do missionary work in the traditional sense, but rather a place for rallying the already converted.

Although I have lived in Utah the majority of my life, the years that I spent living outside the State were refreshing because nobody gives a crap about the LDS Church one way or another and so it was never an issue in any part of my life other than my religious activity. In Utah it permeates the fabric of everything and becomes the focal point for so much chest thumping and finger pointing that it becomes almost nauseating.

Anyway, I am one person who will not miss playing them one bit the next two years. I will try to avoid the 365 days of constant comparison and whining by the media that we are not playing them. I accomplish this by not listening to the local media and not reading their coverage. I will listen to Bill and Hans on some days and will read stuff by Dirk Facer, but I read more by Jon Wilner than anyone else to get my PAC 12 coverage.

He's telling the truth and therein lies the problem. The BYU administration (and whoever they are reporting to) intends to connect BYU football to the Mission of the Church. Just because Bronco is blatantly doing this doesn't mean he is making any misrepresentations. That is BYU football. If it offends Mormons who support other schools, then, quite honestly they need to look at the reasons why it is offensive because it shouldn't be offensive to any active, true beleiving Mormon. Popinga's comments are ridiculous but truthful. If that makes anybody's butt hurt, then that person need to do some soul searching

[Devildog]

Here is a link to the conversation if anyone has the 17+ minutes to waste.

http://1280thezone.com/index.php/aud...mer_cougars_lb

To me it is just more of the same.

Perspective and points of view are gonna be different.

I will say that from my point of view, Poppinga asking Monson about his own standing in the LDS church came across to me as condescending. As if, Monson would "get it" if he were more righteous. Universal truths and all.

[UTEopia]

He's telling the truth and therein lies the problem. The BYU administration (and whoever they are reporting to) intends to connect BYU football to the Mission of the Church. Just because Bronco is blatantly doing this doesn't mean he is making any misrepresentations. That is BYU football. If it offends Mormons who support other schools, then, quite honestly they need to look at the reasons why it is offensive because it shouldn't be offensive to any active, true beleiving Mormon. Popinga's comments are ridiculous but truthful. If that makes anybody's butt hurt, then that person need to do some soul searching

Are you saying that anyone who claims to be an active Mormon who does not agree that BYU = The Kingdom of God is off base, because that is what your statement indicates to me and apparently that was what Poppinga was trying to get at by questioning Monson about his religious activity. If Monson was only an active Mormon he would understand.

You are probably correct about what they want the message to be. I guess my problem is that I disagree with the overt association not because it offends me but because I believe it is detrimental to the actual mission. If you go to the communities where BYU plays on a regular basis I bet you will find that next to the actual rival of that school, BYU is the most loathed opponent. How does that further the mission of the LDS Church? Now BYU fans love to say, well that is because we beat them all the time. While there may be some truth to that, my experience from living in San Diego is that they are the most loathed because the fan base is made up of a large percentage of people who are arrogant, self-righteous pricks who think they are better than anyone else.

[Two Utes]

Are you saying that anyone who claims to be an active Mormon who does not agree that BYU = The Kingdom of God is off base, because that is what your statement indicates to me and apparently that was what Poppinga was trying to get at by questioning Monson about his religious activity. If Monson was only an active Mormon he would understand.

You are probably correct about what they want the message to be. I guess my problem is that I disagree with the overt association not because it offends me but because I believe it is detrimental to the actual mission. If you go to the communities where BYU plays on a regular basis I bet you will find that next to the actual rival of that school, BYU is the most loathed opponent. How does that further the mission of the LDS Church? Now BYU fans love to say, well that is because we beat them all the time. While there may be some truth to that, my experience from living in San Diego is that they are the most loathed because the fan base is made up of a large percentage of people who are arrogant, self-righteous pricks who think they are better than anyone else.

My point is simple--the people who the BYU guys report to are telling Bronco to tie the two together and to set apart BYU football from the others. He's doing it. Popinga is simply telling it like it is. The leaders want this. Don't shoot the messengers (Popinga and Bronconi)

[Two Utes]

My point is simple--the people who the BYU guys report to are telling Bronco to tie the two together and to set apart BYU football apart from the others. He's doing it. Popinga is simply telling it like it is. The leaders want this. Don't shoot the messengers (Popinga and Bronconi)

And the last thing I'll say about this: I've heard 100 times the old saying "it's not the church it's the people in the church" In this instance, it's the church.

[Devildog]

If they were really serious about BYU football as a missionary tool... They should get the word out to their fans to stop all their douche-baggery. That's gotta be dickin' up the effort, ya know.

Are they going to bash people into conversion?

They talk a good game, but their actions say something else.

It's like a gay orgy over there, I guess it's cool for some folks... but I have no interest.

[FountainOfUte]

The BYU administration (and whoever they are reporting to) intends to connect BYU football to the Mission of the Church.

Problem is, there is a broad way to interpret that. I mean, was that charge any different during the LaVell era? And yet BYU football had a MUCH different feel back then. They just went out with their "Ah, shucks!" persona and played straight up football. Sometimes winning, sometimes losing, but it wasn't directly connected to "living right on and off the field" and all of that stuff that's sprouted up in the last decade. The missionary aspect of the football team was just putting those darn weird Mormons in a normal-as-apple-pie scenario -- the American football field -- and showing the world that Mormons put their cleats on one foot at a time, too. The "lesson," trite as this sounds is that "Hey, for being weird, Mormons are mostly normal!"

The hope, I always thought, was that BYU's actions would speak for themselves as to the values of the LDS church; THAT would be the message. It was about presenting one of the many normal sides of Mormonism. Now that's all been torn down with the Bronco brand of BYU football.

There's a faction of members in the church that wears "Mormon peculiarity" as a badge of honor and they love to see that reflected by BYU's football team. I would argue though that infusing that overt peculiarity into the football team is having the opposite effect toward the school's/team's mission. Let the gospel be weird. Let the football be normal.

I guess my problem is that I disagree with the overt association not because it offends me but because I believe it is detrimental to the actual mission.

Yes. This ^^^.

[Scorcho]

I think you can trace some of this “Zoobish” type behavior to some norms within the LDS Church. Growing up in the church I was taught that we were NEVER to question our leaders, whether it was our Bishop, EQ President or Young Men’s Leader whatever they said in the capacity of their leadership was unquestioning gospel. The reason given is that they were called of God, and are given personal revelation in accordance with their calling. I think that works well in most religious settings, but is scary dangerous outside of it.

It seems like Brady Poppinga (or as the kids like to call him ... B-POP), Roger Reid and others take this principle to an extreme. They transfer this principle to other areas in their lives that are closely related to religion. Whether it’s a professor at an LDS Religious Institution, a friendly LDS financial planner/advisor MLM type (with guaranteed 25% annual investment returns), or a head coach of the football team, they view a similar line of LDS Church Authority (when none exists). I think that is why people like B-POP or others are vehemently defending Bronco’s position on coaching decisions or jersey’s, he’s been conditioned to not question those in authority especially when it has any religious correlation.

[Solon]

And the last thing I'll say about this: I've heard 100 times the old saying "it's not the church it's the people in the church" In this instance, it's the church.

I agree with this. It's another case of the byu and the church that runs it trying to strike a balance between competitiveness in the world, and standing apart as a spiritual institution. We see it elsewhere as the byu tries to be both a university (with all the humanistic secular baggage that brings) as well as a flagship for promoting LDS values.

To some extent, I believe the leadership has made its decision to be a stand-apart institution: emphasizing spiritual growth over W-L records, or the accolades of the Academy. In a way, this is commendable. On the other hand, the mission has not been clearly enough articulated from the top to help the fans, members, and academic community understand what the overall vision and mission are. As in so many other areas, the LDS church seems to be trying to take both forks in the road for as long as it possibly can, although it ultimately has chosen morals & merits over Wins - Losses & Academic Freedom.

A pretty sharp rabbi once said something about not being able to serve both God & Mammon, but I think his exact comments were correlated by a team of lawyers and PR officers.

[LA Ute]

To some extent, I believe the leadership has made its decision to be a stand-apart institution: emphasizing spiritual growth over W-L records, or the accolades of the Academy. In a way, this is commendable. On the other hand, the mission has not been clearly enough articulated from the top to help the fans, members, and academic community understand what the overall vision and mission are. As in so many other areas, the LDS church seems to be trying to take both forks in the road for as long as it possibly can, although it ultimately has chosen morals & merits over Wins - Losses & Academic Freedom.

I really don't think the Q12 and the FP place any importance on BYU winning championships. I do wonder why they haven't made that more clear. Comments like Jeff Holland's below make me think they are edging towards being more open about it. For example, here's Dieter Uchtdorf in General Conference, 2010:

Perhaps there is no better laboratory to observe the sin of pride than the world of sports. I have always loved participating in and attending sporting events. But I confess there are times when the lack of civility in sports is embarrassing. How is it that normally kind and compassionate human beings can be so intolerant and filled with hatred toward an opposing team and its fans?

I have watched sports fans vilify and demonize their rivals. They look for any flaw and magnify it. They justify their hatred with broad generalizations and apply them to everyone associated with the other team. When ill fortune afflicts their rival, they rejoice.

Something tells me he is not talking about Manchester United fans. Less than a year after that General Conference talk, he did show up at RES with Jamie Whittingham, after all. Coincidence? I think not!

*UchtdorfJamie2.jpg

[tooblue]

And the last thing I'll say about this: I've heard 100 times the old saying "it's not the church it's the people in the church" In this instance, it's the church.

This entire thread is embarassing. Utes and cougars are cut from the same cloth. The more you mock the zoobs of the BYU fan base the more you solidify your utter zootness. The more you try to tie Bronco's quirkiness to being a precondition of the LDS churches mandate for the football team at BYU the more your reveal your own irrational insecurities.

Both fan bases are naive and rediculous. The media in Utah only exacerbates the problem. Typically, at this time of year I tune in to Utah radio via the Web to feed a deeply ingrained football fetish I just can't quit. I can't do it this year due to the collective idiocy I tuned into last year. To hear them talk Utah was the new Alabama. At least those that covered BYU were realistic about their place in the football universe ... Well, kinda sorta.

Sorry Senioritis but getting giddy about what channel your team plays on is akin to zoots raving about being the kids who got invited to the junior prom but only because the socal schools needed a sucker to help pay for the limo. By the way I would've loved to watch Utah on tv last year, at least once ... I won't hold my breath waiting this season.

Two Utes, I love you like a brother cause well, we are brothers. But your comments above make you sound like a dip shit. Bronco is just wired that way.

Utah is the new Arizona. Brad Rock stole my line.

[USS Utah]

The more you mock the zoobs of the BYU fan base the more you solidify your utter zootness.

What does it mean if I completely ignore them, or say nice things about Bronco?

[Mormon Red Death]

This entire thread is embarassing. Utes and cougars are cut from the same cloth. The more you mock the zoobs of the BYU fan base the more you solidify your utter zootness. The more you try to tie Bronco's quirkiness to being a precondition of the LDS churches mandate for the football team at BYU the more your reveal your own irrational insecurities.

Both fan bases are naive and rediculous. The media in Utah only exacerbates the problem. Typically, at this time of year I tune in to Utah radio via the Web to feed a deeply ingrained football fetish I just can't quit. I can't do it this year due to the collective idiocy I tuned into last year. To hear them talk Utah was the new Alabama. At least those that covered BYU were realistic about their place in the football universe ... Well, kinda sorta.

Sorry Senioritis but getting giddy about what channel your team plays on is akin to zoots raving about being the kids who got invited to the junior prom but only because the socal schools needed a sucker to help pay for the limo. By the way I would've loved to watch Utah on tv last year, at least once ... I won't hold my breath waiting this season.

Two Utes, I love you like a brother cause well, we are brothers. But your comments above make you sound like a dip shit. Bronco is just wired that way.

Utah is the new Arizona. Brad Rock stole my line.

Well you are in Canada. I watched every game in hd last year from Michigan.

We are sorry you guys are not part of one of the bigger more important conferences. If you have to think we only got invited because they "needed help to pay the limo" to help you sleep thats fine.

Hey you guys would have been in the big 12 if it wasn't for the governor who hates Mormons. Heck you guys would be in right now if it wasn't That being independent was so much better.

There does that help?

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2

[jrj84105]

This entire thread is embarassing. Utes and cougars are cut from the same cloth.

Yes. Except you guys were cut with a broken, one-handled pair of safety scissors.

[Senioritis]

This entire thread is embarassing. Utes and cougars are cut from the same cloth. The more you mock the zoobs of the BYU fan base the more you solidify your utter zootness. The more you try to tie Bronco's quirkiness to being a precondition of the LDS churches mandate for the football team at BYU the more your reveal your own irrational insecurities.

Both fan bases are naive and rediculous. The media in Utah only exacerbates the problem. Typically, at this time of year I tune in to Utah radio via the Web to feed a deeply ingrained football fetish I just can't quit. I can't do it this year due to the collective idiocy I tuned into last year. To hear them talk Utah was the new Alabama. At least those that covered BYU were realistic about their place in the football universe ... Well, kinda sorta.

Sorry Senioritis but getting giddy about what channel your team plays on is akin to zoots raving about being the kids who got invited to the junior prom but only because the socal schools needed a sucker to help pay for the limo. By the way I would've loved to watch Utah on tv last year, at least once ... I won't hold my breath waiting this season.

Two Utes, I love you like a brother cause well, we are brothers. But your comments above make you sound like a dip shit. Bronco is just wired that way.

Utah is the new Arizona. Brad Rock stole my line.

I would just like to say that I object, I vehemently object, to several items in the above post. However, it seems wrong to sully game week against the Aggies and their future 2013 Heisman winner QB by responding in much depth. I'm sure we'll have plenty to say in the coming weeks.

However, I would just like to make one point. For fans of the BYU to continually trot out this "new Arizona" or "new Washington State" line rings especially hollow when considering the on-field results of recent BYU-Utah football contests. Scoreboard only sucks when you are getting your ass kicked.

I say this in kindness, especially to a distinguished fan of the new University of Chicago.

[Devildog]

the fan base is made up of a large percentage of people who are arrogant, self-righteous pricks who think they are better than anyone else.

My favorite is when they say... He's a drinker, but he is still a good guy.

Well... thanks.