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Thread: I Wish I Knew How to Quit You - The BYU Sports Thread

  1. #1291
    Administrator U-Ute's Avatar
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    Frankly, I'm not sure I've ever seen a fan base so out of step with its school.

    The men that run the church are smart guys with keen political minds (otherwise they wouldn't be where they are at). I believe they have positioned BYU exactly where they want it to be. As a church affiliated school, I think they are getting the exposure they want and the dialog they want about the school and the religion. They view BYU football as a tool for the church to get name/brand recognition.

    I believe the fans want something completely different. They want to return to the 80's and a program I doubt they can ever have again. The Crowton era sealed that fate.

  2. #1292
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    I Wish I Knew How to Quit You - The BYU Sports Thread

    Very interesting Jake Kuresa interview here:

    http://stationcaster.com/stations/kf...1413844196.mp3

    Sounds like he blames the coaching but he recognizes the ceiling issue too. It bugs him that BYU keeps losing to MWC teams, which suggests that by going independent BYU somehow elevated its competitive stature and has no business losing to such teams. But a very honest interview by and large.
    Last edited by LA Ute; 10-21-2014 at 12:48 PM.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  3. #1293
    Malleus Cougarorum Solon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by U-Ute View Post
    The Crowton era sealed that fate.
    The Crowton era at SUU is off to an ugly start.
    On the brighter side, ex-Cougar Ammon Olsen threw for 500 yards in the loss on Saturday.

    http://www.suutbirds.com/ViewArticle...B_OEM_ID=20100
    σοφῷ ἀνδρὶ Ἑλλὰς πάντα.
    -- Flavius Philostratus, Life of Apollonius 1.35.2.

  4. #1294
    Administrator U-Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    Very interesting Jake Kuresa interview here:

    http://stationcaster.com/stations/kf...1413844196.mp3

    Sounds like he blames the coaching but he recognizes the ceiling issue too. It bugs him that BYU keeps losing to MWC teams, which suggests that by going independent BYU somehow elevated its competitiveness. But a very honest interview by and large.
    He's been on a tear lately. He was highly critical of BYU during Sock-Gate too.

    It is difficult to argue any of his points

  5. #1295
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    I agree that independence was a bad move. It seemed to me to be an attempt to find a way not to be "left behind" -- to save face, really -- when Utah left for the PAC-12. I really think their major boosters could not have stood for that. So they declared independence and tried to be be Notre Dame Lite. (Ironically, Notre Dame is now only semi-independent with its 5 annual ACC games.)
    Not sure if I agree that it was a bad move.
    I think it was their only move. A hail-mary pass after utah/tcu left. Staying in the MWC would have made them a significant 2nd class citizen in the area, so they took a shot at relevance and the overthrew the ball into the 4th row.

    I don't think they'll ever eat that slice of humble pie and go back to the MWC. It's just not in their nature. The BYU/BOT will _never_ admit to making a mistake.

    I'm not sure how this ends. Can they get better? This was supposedly a great team, but their coaching and preparation seem so suspect. As does their depth.

    Keep praying that they keep Bronco around. This is a train wreck I think I will enjoy for many years to come.

  6. #1296
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Ute View Post
    Very interesting Jake Kuresa interview here:

    http://stationcaster.com/stations/kf...1413844196.mp3

    Sounds like he blames the coaching but he recognizes the ceiling issue too. It bugs him that BYU keeps losing to MWC teams, which suggests that by going independent BYU somehow elevated its competitiveness. But a very honest interview by and large.
    Yes, great listen. Thanks for the pointer.

  7. #1297
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian View Post
    Not sure if I agree that it was a bad move.
    I think it was their only move. A hail-mary pass after utah/tcu left. Staying in the MWC would have made them a significant 2nd class citizen in the area, so they took a shot at relevance and the overthrew the ball into the 4th row.

    I don't think they'll ever eat that slice of humble pie and go back to the MWC. It's just not in their nature. The BYU/BOT will _never_ admit to making a mistake.

    I'm not sure how this ends. Can they get better? This was supposedly a great team, but their coaching and preparation seem so suspect. As does their depth.

    Keep praying that they keep Bronco around. This is a train wreck I think I will enjoy for many years to come.
    It was a Hail Mary and the rules changed while the ball was in the air. It was a better move before the BCS disappeared, all the conferences locked up new television contracts and set the P5 far apart from the G5. ND recognized the significance by associating with the ACC.

  8. #1298
    Quote Originally Posted by Ma'ake View Post
    I
    Bronco will be muzzled from saying stupid things (what an idiot)
    I'm not sure how I would do as a head football coach, but I know for sure that I would be able to say the right things at the right times. I've never seen a head coach so unwilling (or unable) to just give the standard, safe coachspeak answers. "They have a great program." "We're taking it one game at a time." "We wish him the best." Instead, he constantly goes off script and says things that either appear self-righteous or dumb.

    You know why I never listen to Coach Whittingham's press conferences? Because he never says anything important. He just gives the standard answers week after week. That's what coaches are supposed to do. It's the easiest part of the job, and Bronco seems unable to do it.

    I asked this a few weeks ago, but nobody had an answer. What are Bronco's strengths as a coach? Not dealing with the media. Not x's and o's. Not recruiting. Maybe he's a good motivator?

  9. #1299
    Quote Originally Posted by Rocker Ute View Post
    Knowing that we are coming from that and seeing their precipitous fall has really underscored to me the good job Whittingham and staff has done. Further, considering our relative recruiting classes to the other PAC schools and that we are competitive (or so it seems right now) says even more about our staff.
    True, but remember we were already quite a bit ahead of BYU in the last years of the MWC.

  10. #1300
    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    I asked this a few weeks ago, but nobody had an answer. What are Bronco's strengths as a coach? Not dealing with the media. Not x's and o's. Not recruiting. Maybe he's a good motivator?
    As an avid BYU-hater, yet an objective one, I'll take a host at this. I think Bronco is a good defensive mind and a good-to-great defensive motivator. The Y has had a pretty good defense in the years when he was in control of the defense.

    That being said, I've never thought of him as a very good coach. But that may be because I only watch his teams when they lose to Utah.

  11. #1301
    Quote Originally Posted by Applejack View Post
    As an avid BYU-hater, yet an objective one, I'll take a host at this. I think Bronco is a good defensive mind and a good-to-great defensive motivator.
    I guess that's it. Like a poor man's Whittingham? Don't forget that he invented the worst defensive scheme ever (the 3-2-1-4-1, or whatever), convinced himself that it was gold after Brian Urlacher made it work, and proceeded to lose with it for years before abandoning it.

  12. #1302
    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    I guess that's it. Like a poor man's Whittingham? Don't forget that he invented the worst defensive scheme ever (the 3-2-1-4-1, or whatever), convinced himself that it was gold after Brian Urlacher made it work, and proceeded to lose with it for years before abandoning it.
    A poor-man's Whittingham is exactly what he is - BYU's second-choice, low cost alternative.

  13. #1303
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Bronco's best thing is doing and saying the things the BOT wants him to do and say. That's another ceiling on BYU. It will always be tough to get a good coach to take the BYU job.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  14. #1304
    Malleus Cougarorum Solon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    I guess that's it. Like a poor man's Whittingham? Don't forget that he invented the worst defensive scheme ever (the 3-2-1-4-1, or whatever), convinced himself that it was gold after Brian Urlacher made it work, and proceeded to lose with it for years before abandoning it.
    I once attended a HS coaching clinic session that Bronco taught, once upon a time while he was still at NM.
    I remember thinking he was pretty smart, that he was pretty good at scheming, and that the 3-3-5 required one hell of a free safety.

    These were the Crowton years, and Crowton had made some waves by blowing off the clinic.
    According to some, he essentially said that he didn't need to recruit in Utah, since he was so well connected back in LA & TX.
    σοφῷ ἀνδρὶ Ἑλλὰς πάντα.
    -- Flavius Philostratus, Life of Apollonius 1.35.2.

  15. #1305
    Bronco is all things to all men and one lucky fan base.

    Actually you all know the guy, you've probably worked with him. He is the guy who thinks that his team is just one motivational speech away from selling more widgets.

    He is the hero BYU deserves, not the one they need.

    My brothers are speculating that, among rumors that some of the brethren feel strongly BYU athletics needs to go, that this whole independence thing was the last chance for BYU athletics to thrive or die on the vine and that the eventuality for BYU is to go the way of BYU Idaho, or go into lower division college sports.

    It wouldn't surprise me in the least.

  16. #1306
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocker Ute View Post
    Bronco is all things to all men and one lucky fan base.

    Actually you all know the guy, you've probably worked with him. He is the guy who thinks that his team is just one motivational speech away from selling more widgets.

    He is the hero BYU deserves, not the one they need.

    My brothers are speculating that, among rumors that some of the brethren feel strongly BYU athletics needs to go, that this whole independence thing was the last chance for BYU athletics to thrive or die on the vine and that the eventuality for BYU is to go the way of BYU Idaho, or go into lower division college sports.

    It wouldn't surprise me in the least.
    BYU will never drop football or athletics altogether. History has shown these types of moves to be massive mistakes made without any kind of foresight.

    Everyone wants to write that obituary, but it will never be printed. But what does need to happen for BYU is to be comfortable in its own skin and recognize that 1984 is irrelevant in today's game. Yale claims 27 national championships and three Heisman winners, but I can guarantee they're not raising their bar to unclearable heights like BYU does seemingly every year.

  17. #1307
    Quote Originally Posted by Rocker Ute View Post
    Bronco is all things to all men and one lucky fan base.

    Actually you all know the guy, you've probably worked with him. He is the guy who thinks that his team is just one motivational speech away from selling more widgets.

    He is the hero BYU deserves, not the one they need.

    My brothers are speculating that, among rumors that some of the brethren feel strongly BYU athletics needs to go, that this whole independence thing was the last chance for BYU athletics to thrive or die on the vine and that the eventuality for BYU is to go the way of BYU Idaho, or go into lower division college sports.

    It wouldn't surprise me in the least.
    I realize this is a dream we all have but it ain't happening. First of all, they are making money for the University. Between the tv deal and tickets and concessions They are turning a profit which covers the budget for the other sports. Second, they do bring notoriety for the university. They get to have their "commericial" on twice a game on ESPN. Essentially, espn, espn2, espnU pay to advertise for the LDS church. Third, it raises support for students and alumni. Going to DivII might be a great idea for non money items (complete control over tv, competitiveness etc.... No need to be in the athletic arms race etc...) but it doesn't trump the money they are making currently.

    What I suspect will continue to happen is that byu will continue to play 6 games a year on Thursday and Friday nights (exposure). They will continue to win 7-10 games a year. They will continue to have a home schedule that is only worth a damn one every 4 years (They have one home game this year that meant anything (utah st)) and their fans will continue to fill bitter beer face stadium at 85%-95% which with the tv revenue is enough to cover their budgets and gives the church some notoriety. Why kill the cash cow?
    "Be a philosopher. A man can compromise to gain a point. It has become apparent that a man can, within limits, follow his inclinations within the arms of the Church if he does so discreetly." - The Walking Drum

    "And here’s what life comes down to—not how many years you live, but how many of those years are filled with bullshit that doesn’t amount to anything to satisfy the requirements of some dickhead you’ll never get the pleasure of punching in the face." – Adam Carolla

  18. #1308
    Not just that, but it is a good missionary tool and a faith sustaining tool. From an ecclesiastical perspective, all the games on the east coast where members get to see them play is a good thing I would guess (as a gentile). All the programming on BYU tv is a good thing. It would be hard to give that up.

  19. #1309
    Quote Originally Posted by Mormon Red Death View Post
    I realize this is a dream we all have but it ain't happening. First of all, they are making money for the University.
    I agree that it ain't happening. But does the money really matter? We're talking millions of dollars for an institution that counts money by the billions.

  20. #1310
    Quote Originally Posted by SoCalPat View Post
    BYU will never drop football or athletics altogether. History has shown these types of moves to be massive mistakes made without any kind of foresight.

    Everyone wants to write that obituary, but it will never be printed. But what does need to happen for BYU is to be comfortable in its own skin and recognize that 1984 is irrelevant in today's game. Yale claims 27 national championships and three Heisman winners, but I can guarantee they're not raising their bar to unclearable heights like BYU does seemingly every year.
    I think that is what we see, a Yale type inevitability (without the Yale type reputation or tradition).

    The once in a blue moon coach like Lavell Edwards will eventually get recognized for what it is, versus the manifest destiny they currently believe. Edwards came at a perfect time with a perfect situation where the coaching carousel and pay didn't exist like it does today.

    But the obituary that has been written is independence and the fact that they are on the outside looking in and may remain that way. I foresee a day where they look to get back into the MWC and while I believe they will be accepted for the revenue they'll bring, it will certainly be begrudgingly.

    Also a reminder that we were damned lucky to get in when we did. It is feeling a lot like Indiana Jones sliding under the door in the nick of time and then grabbing his hat.

  21. #1311
    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    I agree that it ain't happening. But does the money really matter? We're talking millions of dollars for an institution that counts money by the billions.
    If a little money didn't matter to the LDS church then Members wouldnt be cleaning the chapels they would pay a janitorial service.
    "Be a philosopher. A man can compromise to gain a point. It has become apparent that a man can, within limits, follow his inclinations within the arms of the Church if he does so discreetly." - The Walking Drum

    "And here’s what life comes down to—not how many years you live, but how many of those years are filled with bullshit that doesn’t amount to anything to satisfy the requirements of some dickhead you’ll never get the pleasure of punching in the face." – Adam Carolla

  22. #1312
    Quote Originally Posted by concerned View Post
    Not just that, but it is a good missionary tool and a faith sustaining tool. From an ecclesiastical perspective, all the games on the east coast where members get to see them play is a good thing I would guess (as a gentile). All the programming on BYU tv is a good thing. It would be hard to give that up.
    I've yet to see any measurable missionary successes as a result, and the faith sustaining is solely for the mentally ill that frequent CB (I'll also note these are the same that threaten to leave the church if football were to ever go away - so I don't know 'how firm a foundation' that is).

    My dad's favorite joke is to say, "You know, every year that Notre Dame is good at football my interest in becoming Catholic really increases."

  23. #1313
    Quote Originally Posted by Mormon Red Death View Post
    If a little money didn't matter to the LDS church then Members wouldnt be cleaning the chapels they would pay a janitorial service.
    It is an organization that works in the billions of dollars but counts and recounts every penny.

    However it is also an organization that thinks in 50-100 years, not in 2-5 or 10 years like other people. My business partner and I were talking the other day about some of his business dealings with the church (he is not LDS) he mentioned how it was about impossible to negotiate a deal with someone perfectly comfortable sitting on a piece of land and revisiting it 30 years later.

  24. #1314
    Sam the Sheepdog LA Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SoCalPat View Post
    BYU will never drop football or athletics altogether. History has shown these types of moves to be massive mistakes made without any kind of foresight.

    Everyone wants to write that obituary, but it will never be printed. But what does need to happen for BYU is to be comfortable in its own skin and recognize that 1984 is irrelevant in today's game. Yale claims 27 national championships and three Heisman winners, but I can guarantee they're not raising their bar to unclearable heights like BYU does seemingly every year.
    Spot-on.

    "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
    --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

    "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
    --Yeats

    “True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”

    --John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell

  25. #1315
    Administrator U-Ute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mormon Red Death View Post
    If a little money didn't matter to the LDS church then Members wouldnt be cleaning the chapels they would pay a janitorial service.
    I doubt that is money motivated as much as it is service oriented. I mean, it isn't like the bishops, stake presidents, or BOT get a stake in church profits.

  26. #1316
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocker Ute View Post
    My dad's favorite joke is to say, "You know, every year that Notre Dame is good at football my interest in becoming Catholic really increases."
    I am so stealing this.

  27. #1317
    I really think Colorado should be BYU's rival. After all, it was Colorado who stole BYU's spot in the Pac 12. That should really make all the BYU fans hate Colorado.

    I guess the problem with that is Colorado fans don't care about BYU.

  28. #1318
    Quote Originally Posted by utefan View Post
    I guess the problem with that is Colorado fans don't care about BYU.
    So I guess we have *that* in common with the BYU.

  29. #1319
    Quote Originally Posted by FountainOfUte View Post
    So I guess we have *that* in common with the BYU.
    I usually don't drive, but I had some morning errands yesterday. The DJs on the radio station (here in CO) were complaining that Utah has been able to adjust to the Pac-12 better than CU. "Why would anyone choose to go to Utah when they could go to Boulder?," they asked.

  30. #1320
    Quote Originally Posted by sancho View Post
    I usually don't drive, but I had some morning errands yesterday. The DJs on the radio station (here in CO) were complaining that Utah has been able to adjust to the Pac-12 better than CU. "Why would anyone choose to go to Utah when they could go to Boulder?," they asked.
    I have a friend living in Fort Collins, and she claims that Colorado college applications are up 20% since MJ legalization. Colorado really has no excuses at this point.

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